LTC

[dondon151]

okay, since you asked for the chinaFE player's division 2 assignments, i'll go over them right now.

raffin: holmes's team. the player cites chapter 29, where he wants raffin to fly outside the castle walls and annihilate the enemies around renee.

mahter: runan's team. she's not strong enough for chapter 29 and he wants one flier per team.

narron: runan's team (definitely). he carries the team in chapters 24 and 25.

samson: runan's team. the player thinks he can do something in chapter 25 because of innate FF.

he then says something about not having decided on which version of chapter 26 to do (though why he would do this i have no idea, the A version looks so much easier).

plum: toughest decision (of course). he doesn't actually contemplate which route her dancing would save more turns. he sends her with runan because her defense staff can patch up runan's weak durability.

so there you have it. kind of disappointing, eh? but i do think runan's team is a better choice for plum because he has 3 seize maps where plum will save a turn each, but of holmes's 4 maps, 2 of them can be 1-turned without plum, and she will probably only be able to save a turn each in the other maps.

one thing i'm not sure about: does sierra appear before the division, or does she join holmes's team automatically and there's no way to reassign her?

Edited June 10, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

I'm not sure how Raffin helps in map 29. You just re-Warp Sierra in there and she Nosferatanks. However, a competent fighter is highly useful in Runan's desert chapter. And he needs all the mounted units he can get in chapters 24 and 26a.

Indeed, 26a is perfect for LTC because crossing the desert takes time and 26b is long (the sole MOV Plus in the game isn't worth these turns, though +3 mov would certainly be nice), but I gotta say 26a is a deceptively simple chapter - all sorts of ranged attackers, ballistae and mages hide in those houses and you can't really identify and target them on PP.

I have a feeling that if we want to achieve the lowest possible turn count in 26a, we have to miss the boss's Rukkud (80% crit sword effective against monsters), because Vega/Julia should be the ones to kill him if you want it, and if you're giving Runan the first dance, then I'm not sure if Vega can make it on time before he seizes.

Maybe tutor Vega City Fighter before the route split? I'm not sure if 7K is worth the blade, but it's probably a better investment for the purpose of bosskilling and whatnot than, say, Dragon Flute.

I'm pretty sure Sierra joins after the division though she's not one of the forced "starred" units or anything. Regardless, you want her to go with Holmes for the 1-turning and the training in Morse Tower.

It does look like Plum is best going with Runan, but things are a little more complicated for the third split.

Also, I'm already regretting missing the chapter 14 AGI Plus because Sierra fails to double the chapter 28 General boss unless she takes both the agi stat boosters. I hope I can crit him or something. Still need to see if Maerhen can still a +20% crit Death tome in the caves before the second split, because it's really important for strats of at least minimal reliability.

[dondon151]

vega can definitely make it to renshien on turn 3. he needs to get danced by plum, but it's trivial if you have plum start in the tile closest to renshien. he just needs to be promoted.

anyway i was just looking at the chapter 27 map and thinking a bit. i can't remember how the terrain works for the ship chapters (as in, which tiles are blocked off and such), but is it possible at all to get the super proof chest on turn 3 with SF yuni?

[Espinosa]

I just re-counted the squares; yeah, Vega can get there (and mine was promoted a long time ago).

This is Yuni's path to the furthest chest. 19 squares so we shouldn't tutor her Sea Fighter, as you get there in 4 turns anyway. In fact, Holmes can get there himself (with his Sea Fighter).

Edited June 10, 2013 by Espinosa

[MacLovin]

heya.

It would have been interesting to see Ezekiels possible use in an LTC scenario though. Those natural terrain skills!.

anyways, nice read and it tells of the most optimal units to use.

[Espinosa]

Ezekiel would be pretty bad in LTC. You've only got City Fighter and the other three you have to wait for. Plains and Mountain are pretty useless, while Frontier comes at L24, which is a level Ezekiel finds impossible to reach.

Blazing Wind is cool but will hardly activate with that 6 base skill + 25% growth, and that poses a problem for axe accuracy as well. Barts and Samson just have way better offensive stats. I guess being one WLv proc away from Scissor Axe is a boon for Ezekiel, as is 7 defence? That's about it though.

Also, confirming that the mummies can be fed to <7 def Runan assuming he countercrits the DK. You can feed four but then you're opening Runan to a Dark Priest, which is risky (might not be the case with a promoted Sasha). I can get Runan to almost L13 that way, but he also needs to crit the DK and not proc def in the process to kill all of them.

[Espinosa]

You know who'd make a good recepient of the pre-map 19 Frontier Fighter? Plum. There are two maps of that terrain with Holmes, one more with Runan (the desert) and then the final map where it may or may not come in handy.

It might turn out that FF on Katri/Shigen is the right decision when map 21 kicks in though, so better keep a save state for that.

And I finally had a map 19 clear where Runan critted the DK with the cursed Iron Sword (okay, not cursed just yet, and actually ever because the one Repair Hammer I have is best spent on something else, and the Repair staff has an absurd WLv requirement) - he also got 3 strength procs, and finally some agility (he was @ base speed still at lv. 9), his last mummy level-up being defence. If he promotes right now, he'll have 16 strength, which I think should be enough to kill that dragon with Lyria's help, but I guess more training wouldn't hurt, and Rising Dragon @ L15 is pretty desirable.

[dondon151]

ugh why do my posts always get randomly deleted like this

anyway what i had typed was

1. glad to know that the runan zombie thing worked. maybe use a magic shield, though those are expensive.

2. i was thinking about FF on plum too, but i don't think it will save any turns in chapters 20 or 25 after square counting, since holmes or runan are still too many tiles short. it would be functionally equivalent to giving the skill to katri/shigen in chapter 21. not sure about the final chapter.

3. what were you going to use the repair hammer on? the iron lance? also, didn't you mention rebecca as a possible user of the repair staff (though she's still 4 wlv away at base)? SF indicates a second repair hammer in chapter 26A.

Edited June 10, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

Yeah, so far it seems like there are more shields than one would need. Need to LTC the whole game to know for sure first, but early on the shields could definitely be used to grant some frail characters a full enemy phase (ones like Sasha maybe), so that they grow quickly into something without having us wait. I found that Lionel was often close to dying when used aggressively, so some shields on him would reduce the risk of death he faces.

I guess FF on Plum over Katri/Shigen grants flexibility. If dancing Katri/Shigen goes wrong, Plum can dance somebody else and moves around more freely around the map.

Yeah, I considered that and it might actually not be too late at all to have Rebecca use the staff. The Iron Lance isn't a bad idea, but I was thinking about Janura (Nosferatu). It's got only 30 uses but allows Sierra to train pretty safely by just dropping on a group of enemies with the right amount of MAG, SKL and AGI Pluses (still angry at myself for missing the second AGI Plus).

Also, I just did the pre-chapter 20 maps and encountered a Witch with a Death tome on one of them. Going to steal this one with Maerhen.

[dondon151]

janura does sound like a good choice to repair. which map did you find the death witch? i thought both of them had monsters only.

[Espinosa]

The fourth and last "random" map is the only one where I've ever seen the Witch. Wouldn't remember it so well if she hadn't critkilled Barts on one of my runs some years ago.

[PKL]

Less Q.Q more PewPew

Translation: More vids

Edited June 11, 2013 by Peekayell

[Espinosa]

Here's map 5 in 3 turns:

Zeek uses the Re-Movement scroll.

[dondon151]

did you forget to recruit maruj at the end lol

(not like it matters since you probably recruited him on the actual save)

anyway i just noticed that city fighter gives +1 mov to indoor maps. last i recall, there were quite a few of those in the last quarter of the game, though i don't know which ones will be warpskipped.

[Espinosa]

He joins automatically after the map ends.

(I also - in 99% of cases - make sure the recorded video is the same as the save I keep)

City Fighter does not give +1 move in indoor maps. It's just all indoor maps of the game happen to be City maps, besides map 11 which we skipped. We're warpskipping Holmes's maps while Runan has innate City Fighter, though it's not exactly every map where he has to run around.

I have a feeling some Fighter skills could be useful on Sierra when she has trouble connecting attacks on a boss. Plains Fighter for Ernest maybe? Actually no, 7K gold for +10 avoid/hit is complete bollocks. Now if it granted 10 crit as well, then we'd talk. Teaching Sierra Gale in tandem with Sylpheed should be a good combo, though.

[dondon151]

oh sorry, i meant that the maps WoD labels as "interior of castle" count towards city fighter. i somehow did not notice that!

[dondon151]

i peeked further into chinaFE dude's log and am perplexed by two things:

1. how did he 2-turn chapter 34? i can sort of understand most of his strategy - he wipes out the 3 ballistae on the ridge with raffin, mahter, and sierra and blocks the path with narron and loffaru, then he kills ernst using the luna sword - but unless there is something about the map that is not obviously apparent from the WoD image, i can't fathom how runan can seize the castle in 2 turns. he sent plum with runan but renee with holmes, so he can't have used warp.

2. the summary for chapter 36 is missing entirely. i double-checked his turncounts, though, and there were 6 turns unaccounted for, so i'm assuming that he just didn't bother summarizing the map. it does look possible for runan to visit the target on turn 1, after which he has to survive for 5 more turns.

[Espinosa]

What you're missing is that when Ernest is defeated, Runan automatically appears near the throne so all you need to do is have him seize. So we seize on the player phase of that turn when we kill Ernest.

I have a feeling a 1-turn completion of map 34 might be possible after all. We won't have max Mag Sierra (most likely not even with ludicrous RNG abuse) or the Magic staff to OHKO Ernest with a crit (hell, she has trouble connecting with her attack), but if we give both Plum and Raffin (game's only 8 move flier) Plains Fighter - try to count the squares - Raffin will just barely be able to reach the boss at 1-range, and land an attack with the Luna Sword. So Sierra re-warps and chips, then Raffin finishes the boss off on turn 1, Runan seizes.

Sounds realistic enough, but I've already passed map 17 with its free Plains Fighter tutor. Raffin did a lot in the central part of the map though, like getting the enemy drops like Hero Crest, Salia Tome, Skill Plus (with Narron and Sasha's help)... I think I'll send him with Holmes during the second split so that he can learn the skill then. He can also assist with killing General Praeva and getting rid of the enemies around Renee.

I'm actually having doubts if you can go back and learn the Fighter skills with Holmes again though... Never done that (in fact never taught any of the 7K Fighter skills before this LTC run). I do know that Zachariah's map is the same as map 15, but that's right before the split.

Okay, no restarting for now - just need to do the 4 "random" encounters and steal the Death tome with Maerhen. I still haven't made up my mind how to distribute exp in those maps. The mummy map alone is enough or nearly enough to get Sun to lv. 10 and promote with the Knight Crest, and I think I might be interested in having an additional mounted unit with 1~2 range besides Narron and Loffaru. Raffin and Mahter are in some contexts equivalent, in some superior (when terrain is involved), Lionheart is pretty cool but cannot counter at 1-2 range without the Thunder Sword (so I guess he's a good user of it then?) and I don't have Mintz on this run. Lionel is also pretty much a mounted unit without Canto on this run thanks to his 2 early move procs.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Espinosa

[dondon151]

holy crap ernst has 26 res against f/w/t magic

so i'm guessing that you're going to use a dark tome instead. then, he only has 14 res. even then, janura is only going to do 10 HP damage at base + mag plus (so given some level ups it will maybe be ~13 HP damage?). and raffin will need nearly max str plus a power staff charge to finish him off. could you get a tomaharn tome at any point? it looks about as good as sylpheed and sierra can muster much more damage against ernst that way.

lionheart has 0 base mag. he looks kind of useless tbh since most units with a pilum do his job better.

i'm debating whether or not it's worth training one of the earlygame rook knights when i restart. estelle's start is pretty atrocious, but she learns some good skills. they're bound to get some combat anyway, but earlygame EXP looks a bit tight right now, since i want to prioritize 6 units (runan, raffin, narron, sasha, vega, barts). otherwise i can just hold off until sun.

actually i think i'll just hold off until sun. estelle hasn't been that useful and she's not even L14 yet. i doubt sun would be very useful either, but i get giddy when units with paragon gain EXP.

oh, other questions or thoughts that just came up:

1. does enemy zeek retain his stats from when he leaves the player's team? if so, in which stats do we want to constrain him so that he is easier to ORKO with sierra?

2. chinaFE player lists 5 turns for chapter 39. is he just a scrub, or can't you just warp in sierra and kill zeek immediately? from what i gather, the map is shrouded in darkness, but it also looks quite bright where zeek is standing.

3. lee or lionel as the second unit? i'm not sure that lionel will save any turns by himself, but lee also doesn't really have any potential to save turns since he has <6 mov. his only benefit is another physic staff.

Edited June 12, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

The only elemental shield I see Ernest wielding is the Wind shield, so while Sylpheed is out we should be able to hurt him for similar damage and at a decent enough accuracy with God Hand (dropped by Angra Mainyu). Tomaharn is buyable in map 31's secret shop, but since we sent Yuni together with Holmes and didn't recruit Narcus in the desert, we have no access to that (it's "just" +2 Mt compared to God Hand anyway).

That said, I wonder if the Silver Shield is still accounted for when attacking with the Luna Sword. If not, max power Raffin deals 47/58 damage with Luna Sword. Sierra then needs to add 11 more damage, which with Ernest's Holy Sword + Magic Shield combo means she needs to have 25 atk, or 9 mag with God Hand, and she does have that much at base. Silver Shield adds 20 to his defence though assuming it has an effect, meaning Sierra would need 55 atk and making a 1-turn strategy without critting or warping impossible.

Since Raffin is not too likely to reach his Str cap of 23, he and Sierra need to have a sum of Str and Mag of 32 in the most desirable scenario, which is pretty realistic.

Sun is pretty damn good. Fast and decent growths, 8 mounted move, Pilium usage and Charge to almost certainly kill something on PP, even be it something really sturdy like an AK with a powerful shield. Don't really see a point in training Estelle, as those high-end skills come very late and she takes too long to get out of her rut.

Barts might give you a headache with his hit rates until you buy the first Scissor Axe (right before the sperm chapter I think), but even with that axe he'll still frequently whiff so be careful.

1. Yeah, Zeek should have the stats he left you with, though FE WoD seems to show fixed ones instead. Not sure what's up with that. He can be critted though, and if you send an OP unit like Narron with Holmes (which you may or may not want) you can just outstat him and ORKO by virtue of that. When Runan's group faces him, he's dismounted and weighed down by his Devil Lance, so Sierra should be able to double with Sylpheed, or try for a crit with something like Death or God Hand. His stats do seem fixed the second time around (1 luck...), so Sierra needs 9 AS to double or 17 AGI with Sylpheed, easy to reach if you give Sierra both of your AGI Pluses (not an option for me sadly).

2. Yeah, map 39 should be easily 1-turnable by Sierra.

3. Lee makes a fast user of Sylpheed and a handy candidate for the Repair staff since he's so close to having access to it at base, so he's not entirely without merit. However, I'd say Lee is an inferior second pick because you can no longer obtain a Defence staff for Plum (though tbqh Plum is out of range to use that in LTC once she has danced on turn 1), and Lionel is agreed to be the best foot unit in the game (move procs have little to do with that I think).

Also, Zeek starts with Frontier Fighter so he's a readymade 6 move indoor unit for map 16 if the only other one you have is Vega (who OHKOs monsters without requiring a precious Power staff boost and 2HKOs the boss with I believe just one strength proc, if even that).

[dondon151]

oh, i read "thunder sword" and thought that said "thunder shield." god hand should be good, then. it has a fair amount of hit too.

originally i thought i really needed barts for chapter 11, but i still want him promoted for chapter 16. zeek only has 4 +1 mov and i usually send him with lionel to the top right corner to deal with the sperm.

the luna sword's effect on shields should be tested out after chapter 29, though i don't know if holmes's team will fight any shielded enemies in chapter 30.

[Espinosa]

Doesn't seem like there's any until after the third split.

Also here's map 6 in 3 turns with the cantoing Zeek strategy:

The video should also explain why I stopped trying to train Sasha.

[dondon151]

the fact that vega crit the guy that sasha was supposed to kill stopped you from trying to train sasha?

[Espinosa]

She had issues killing an archer 2 maps before that too. I guess there's still 5 rounds of arena in C7 and 2 mummy kills (assuming she doesn't whiff the other one) in C8, but she was still L2 when I entered C7 so I didn't bother. Mahter's good level-up has more to do with it, though.

Instapeg Sasha was still pretty helpful in maps 17-19 for, believe it or not, flier utility (breaking the escapees' shields in C17, helping the party break into the fortress in C18 and then getting the Silver Axe in C19). I think I can rely on her for recruiting Rebecca in map 25 later on, too.

Finally started working on pre-chapter 20 maps. Already observed some Witches (always equipped with Death) appearing in the third map (first in the caves), so there are enough opportunities to mug the tome. Maerhen can mug a Silver Axe from one of the hairy dudes too.

My Sun is a little AGI-blessed, so I'll see what my strategy for Zachariah is going to be. I could either try proccing a crit with Lionel's Life or Death or I could have Sun use Charge with Pilium and a Power staff boost (11 str + 10 mt + 10 boost = 31 atk against his 18 def, but we're probably not that unlikely to double - 3 speed procs away to be precise). I don't actually have an Armorslayer =(

Edited June 13, 2013 by Espinosa

[dondon151]

should've had maerhen mug that guy in chapter 14!

can't sun engage zachariah at 1-range? by my square-counting, she can do this even unpromoted. use an estoc or something for slightly more atk, better hit, and better AS.