LTC

[dondon151]

Division 1

Runan's team:
Raffin, Narron, Sasha, Plum, Julia

• Raffin, Narron, and Sasha are strong, mobile fighters in outdoor maps.
• Plum is needed for her event to learn Dance.
• Julia is kind of pointless on Holmes's route, and she can walk places.

Runan's items:
1x Armorslayer, 1x Estoc, 1x Killing Edge, 1x Needle Spear, 1x Iron Lance+, 4x Pilum, 3x Gold Bag, 1x Iron Shield, 2x Leather Shield, MHP Plus, 2x Amulet, Bridge Key, Super Proof

• Armorslayer and Estoc are useful for chapters 9 and 18.
• Runan's route fights tougher enemies, justifying the Killing Edge and Needle Spear.
• Narron can probably OHKO enemies with the Iron Lance+ and build up its crit.
• Runan's route needs more Pilum uses because of more lance users.
• Chapters 9 and 18 require defensive resources, including the Shields, MHP Plus, and Amulets.
• Chapter 17 requires a Bridge Key.
• Narron will use a Super Proof.

Holmes's team:

Zeek, Barts, Vega, Mahter, Maruj, Racquel, Estelle, Yuni

• Vega is a strong indoor fighter and ORKOs the chapter 16 boss.
• Zeek is needed to ORKO Maerhen in chapter 13.
• Mahter easily recruits Frau and Sun in chapter 15 and is generally helpful.
• Maruj obtains Sylpheed.
• Barts saves a turn by recruiting Plum in chapter 14.
• Yuni is necessary in chapter 16 to reach chests and gives the Power Staff to Lyria.
• Estelle enables Lionel's recruitment (though a lot of characters can do this).

Holmes's items:

2x Estoc, 1x Iron Sword+, 2x Pilum, 1x Master Bow, 1x Herb, 1x Healing Fruit, 2x Leather Shield, Knight Proof, WLV Plus, 1x Magic Shield

• 2 Estocs are preferred for chapter 16 due to their high hit.
• Iron Sword+ can gain a lot of crit by OHKOing opuses in chapter 16.
• Leather Shields can be useful in chapters 16 and 21.
• Lionel will use a Knight Proof.
• Yuni will use a WLV Plus.
• Runan's team will get a Magic Shield prior to chapter 18, but Holmes's team doesn't.

Runan's team only needs 10000G (including Gold Bags) for the Dragon Flute, and Holmes's team needs at least 23800G to tutor 3 terrain skills at Brahd and buy a Shamshir for Yuni.

Edited June 19, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

Chapters 9 and 18 require defensive resources, including the Shields, MHP Plus, and Amulets.

Personally I found the Iron Shield I gave him for map 18 to be a waste (he was only attacked by three Harpies). He never died or needed the extra HP. You'll be able to judge when I post the video. Map 9 is kind of a given though - too many enemies you can't dispose of on time.

Wow, your Raffin is slow - only one AGI proc in 7 levels with a 30% growth. Mine was a little blessed in all stats I believe, especially defence.

I'm looking at map 13 right now and it's actually pretty clear that Holmes can reach Maerhen with the Longbow. So doubling with a Thunder Sword + Longbow chip might do him in? I don't know. Either way I found Zeek useful in maps 12 and 14.

Also, I was unable to promote either Lionel or Shigen until during map 16 (when it was about to end actually). If you're sure you can promote Shigen on time then good luck, but otherwise do invest some into Barts because Holmes doesn't want to go southwest without a 3rd 1-range fighter. Shigen isn't really in a rush to promote and you get a Hero Proof after map 16.

edit: I'd also send the Iron Lance+ with Holmes because Lionel can get some really mean crit with it in no time, and will eventually have 100% displayed crit even at >50% HP.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Espinosa

[dondon151]

i think the stronger shields (iron and steel) are going to be useful in chapter 18 for the priority stonehenge targets. they are a bit of a waste when up against the harpies, though.

mahter @ thunder sword can easily ORKO maerhen; i'm going to try for that.

barts would hardly be at a higher level than shigen by chapter 12. they'd be pretty much even. and i wasn't on planning on using barts in the long term anyway because there's really no reason to.

Chapter 9

Assignments:
Armorslayer - Narron
Narron needs the Armorslayer to ORKO the wood shooter.
Killing Edge - Raffin
This is a good way to fish for crits. The KE helps Raffin gets the bosskill. The NS is borderline on doubling armor knights depending on Raffin's agi level ups.
Estoc - Raffin or Sasha
An Estoc puts a dent in armor knights; it's mostly useful for getting the kill EXP.
Pilum - Narron, Raffin
Probably the most useful lance in the game; Sasha doesn't have the wlv yet.
MHP Plus - Runan
Runan's durability needs a little help here, so an MHP Plus is a good investment.

Shields are also a fair idea for Runan and Sasha, though not always necessary depending on luck. Runan can pull out a shield from the convoy at any time. I ran through an half of a Leather Shield on Runan to maximize his combat exposure.

Formation:
Sasha, Raffin, Narron, Plum, Meriah

The rest of the units aren't going to do anything in the map, so it doesn't matter who they are. Depending on how the enemies move, Meriah might be able to pick off an armor knight or two.

Turn 1: Used MHP Plus on Runan.

Obtained: Hellfire

I don't know about Espinosa, but I found this chapter pretty tough to do well. There are a lot of enemies with high def, shields, high MT weapons, or some combination of the three. I had Narron start out in a position that let him ORKO an axe knight on turn 1 and ORKO the bow knight on turn 2, making the area safe for Sasha. Runan pulled out a Leather Shield and Amulet on turn 2 and sustained a pretty arduous EP, though he only got one kill in the process. Narron killed the wood shooter on turn 3. The rest of the map was spent maximizing EXP gain.

The real boss appears if the player either tries to attack the original boss or if a unit does something within a distance of 3 tiles inclusive from the gate. If a unit tries to attack the original boss, he basically loses his turn. I think it's best if you force the boss to appear but stay out of Black Hole range so that he is weighed down by Hellfire when you engage him. Raffin got the bosskill with a Needle Spear critical.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Runan 6.78 28 8 8 10 4 0 7 6
Sasha 14.72 26 8 10 17 4 10 12 8
Raffin 15.54 33 13 11 10 10 1 7 13
Narron 16.90 37 21 14 15 12 4 13 14
Enteh 5.44
Plum 2.72
Meriah 1.00

Obtained a Steel Shield after the map.

Cleared in 5 turns.

I seriously tried to rig bad level ups for Narron, and I kind of did, but he still gained str twice and mysteriously got mag all three times. I think he's actually close to average now on his important non-str stats, but it's just his str that's about 5 points above average.

Edited June 25, 2013 by dondon151

[dondon151]

Chapter 10

Assignments:
Needle Spear - Raffin
High hit, easy ORKO on boss.

Formation:
Narron, Raffin, Plum, Meriah, ..., (9) Sasha
The other units don't matter, but someone can go buy the Dragon Flute.

Obtained: Steel Blade

Narron, Raffin, and Sasha started by clearing out the enemies in the town area. After Raffin recruited Sharon, he continued onwards accompanying Runan to the gate while Narron backtracked and exterminated Mintz's knights. Sasha helped and gained a bit of EXP for herself. Runan had to consume the rest of his Leather Shield in taking a hit from Sharon and dealing with the enemies on the way to the gate, but he got a bit of combat EXP in the process. On a previous run, the NS rook knights moved a little bit and Runan was able to counter kill them, but I forgot what I did in order to get that to happen.

Julia bought the Dragon Flute.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Runan 7.20 29 8 9 10 4 0 8 7
Sasha 17.64 28 8 12 19 4 11 13 9
Raffin 18.26 37 16 12 13 12 1 8 14
Narron 21.70 41 22 14 16 13 4 16 14
Enteh 6.31 16 0 7 8 1 9 9 8
Plum 3.20 19 0 2 3 1 4 8 4
Meriah 1.15

Raffin promoted to dracoknight at the end of the chapter.

Cleared in 7 turns.

Chapter 12

Maruj received Sylpheed prior to the map.
Recruited Lionel at Welt.

Assignments:
Leather Shield - Shigen, Lionel
These guys will face a lot of combat on turn 1. Vega doesn't care because of Shramm.

Formation:
Mahter, Maruj, ..., (5) Shigen, Racquel, Barts, Vega, Lionel, Zeek

Obtained: Hammer, Shield Sword, Wind, Physic

Vega, Shigen, and Lionel led the charge, while Mahter, Maruj, Barts, and Zeek wiped up stragglers. Maruj is actually pretty useful here because he can do a lot of damage to the Shield Sword mercenary. I managed to give the bosskill to Shigen this time by weakening the boss with Mahter, who was weighed down by a Steel Lance.

Holmes is one tile short of 2-turning this map, so he had a leisurely walk to the gate while getting a couple of kills along the way.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Holmes 6.45
Barts 5.46
Mahter 10.35 22 9 10 14 6 9 11 8
Vega 9.03 30 8 14 15 5 2 6 11
Racquel 13.24 25 12 18 17 8 0 8 18
Zeek 9.46 34 17 13 14 13 9 9 11
Maruj 2.49 21 0 7 8 3 6 4 7
Katri 1.25
Shigen 8.75 26 8 12 14 5 0 5 10
Lionel 6.63 27 8 6 11 6 0 3 10
Attrom 3.82

Cleared in 3 turns.

Chapter 13

Formation:
(2) Mahter, Zeek, Racquel, Vega, Shigen, Lionel, Maruj

Obtained: Thunder Sword

There is a subtle trick to 2-turning this map that I don't fully understand. Basically, Maerhen tries to stay out of range of player units, otherwise he approaches. I'm not sure if he sees whether units are equipped with 2-range weapons or not. In any case, this map is easy to 2-turn if Maerhen can be manipulated to move 2L on turn 1. He has a hefty amount of def due to his Iron Shield, but a strong unit like Zeek can punch through, and magic users destroy him. I got the Thunder Sword on turn 1 with Zeek and passed it to Mahter on turn 2, and she easily ORKO'd Maerhen.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Holmes 7.23 30 11 10 12 7 0 6 10
Mahter 11.69 23 9 11 15 6 9 12 8
Vega 9.51
Racquel 13.52
Zeek 9.86
Maruj 2.63
Katri 1.25
Shigen 9.29 27 8 13 14 5 0 5 10
Lionel 7.07 28 9 7 11 6 0 3 10
Krisheenu 1.45

Cleared in 2 turns.

Edited June 26, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

I think the trick with Maerhen is that he runs away when there are too many units on the eastern part of the ship. Zeek with a Pilium definitely counts as a unit with a ranged weapon, so that explanation is out. If I put just Zeek and Shigen east, crossing the bridge, he approaches, but if I put 3 more characters there he walks away towards Krisheenu instead. Maybe it's just Holmes whose positioning matters?

Also, the encounter you mention can definitely be avoided (via resetting).

Edited June 20, 2013 by Espinosa

[dondon151]

i literally had maerhen run away when i ended my turn with units in a certain position and approach when i had literally the exact same position, except mahter was one tile lower. there is definitely some randomness that i've observed in enemy behavior, but i think in this case it is strongly influenced by whether he thinks you can attack him.

that same exact encounter happened in the last run. even WoD acknowledges that encounter.

Edited June 20, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

I agree with that logic, and he will "think" you're about to attack him if you place too many units close enough to him, I believe. 1-2 range most likely has nothing to do with it.

The encounter is more likely to happen than not, indeed, but it can be avoided if you save (hard save) and reset until the waves from map 12's location don't move. That's what I did to eliminate some variables I didn't want present in the run. You might also want to do the same so that random Brigands don't approach from the southeast (Taurus village area), because Holmes could encounter that random enemy party anywhere during the first or second split (and I hope not the third). One reason I'm doing Holmes's maps first after the second split is so that one Brigand doesn't block Holmes way to the ship because it just needs to move once for me to be forced to fight it. The random enemies on the map seem to move even when doing Runan's scenario chapters.

[Espinosa]

Chapter 8 in 10 turns.

[dondon151]

Chapter 14

Assignments:
Estoc - Maerhen, Mahter
Maerhen wants a light, high hit weapon to successfully mug an enemy.

Mahter just wants it to damage the armor knight.

Formation:
Shigen, Zeek, Vega, Maerhen, Barts, Lionel, Mahter, Maruj, Racquel

Obtained: Healing Fruit, Killing Edge, Herb, Leather Shield (2), 3x Gold Bag, Repair Hammer, Super Proof, Hero Proof
Mugged: Armorslayer, Steel Sword

Zeek went solo up the left side of the map to get a Gold Bag and to provide support to Holmes and Shigen, who also went left along the slightly more central path. Mahter flew through the center and picked off dangerous targets. Lionel, Barts, and Vega advanced up the right side of the map. Maruj OHKO'd the KE swordfighter with Sylpheed on turn 1 and later killed the thief for another Gold Bag.

Maerhen mugged an Armorslayer from the mercenary on turn 2 and a Steel Sword from the armor knight on turn 4.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Holmes 8.07 31 12 10 12 8 0 6 10
Barts 5.80
Mahter 12.77 23 9 11 16 6 10 13 9
Vega 10.65 30 9 14 15 6 2 7 12
Racquel 13.52
Zeek 11.16 36 17 13 15 13 9 9 12
Maruj 3.47 21 0 7 9 4 6 5 8
Katri 2.00 18 0 4 9 1 7 5 8
Shigen 10.67 28 9 14 15 5 0 5 10
Lionel 8.56 29 10 8 12 6 0 3 10
Maerhen 16.10 28 9 2 5 4 0 1 6
Plum 3.56 19 0 2 3 1 4 8 4

Cleared in 5 turns.
Obtained POW Plus, SKL Plus, AGI Plus, MAG Plus, and Hero Proof after the map.

Chapter 15

Formation:
Attrom, Plum, Shigen, Vega, Mahter

Turn 1: Promoted Shigen to Swordmaster.
Turn 1: Promoted Vega to Swordmaster.

Shigen and Vega made it to L10 with room to spare, so I didn't have to rig a round of combat for EXP. Mahter recruited Frau and Sun on turn 1 and there was no enemy phase to speak of.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Holmes 8.07
Mahter 12.77
Vega 10.65 32 12 17 17 7 2 7 13
Katri 2.00
Shigen 10.67 30 12 17 17 6 0 5 11
Attrom 3.82
Plum 3.92
Frau 1.00
Sun 2.00
Lyria 1.20

Cleared in 2 turns.
After the map:
Tutored Plains Fighter to Plum.
Tutored Plains Fighter to Sun.
Tutored Frontier Fighter to Holmes.
Tutored Frontier Fighter to Yuni.
Lyria received the Power Staff.

I bought 1x Shamshir from the armory.

Chapter 16

Assignments:
Estoc - Yuni, Maerhen
Estocs have the highest hit of commonly usable swords and also a low wlv requirement.
Shamshir - Yuni
With a Power Staff boost, Shamshir allows Yuni to OHKO full HP opuses, but she can't OHKO the ones spawned by the boss.
WLV Plus - Yuni
Yuni's base wlv is one point short of being able to wield a Shamshir.
SKL Plus - Maerhen
Maerhen's hit, even with an Estoc, is still pretty bad.
Iron Sword+ - Shigen
Each opus is virtually a free kill. Shigen is a frontline combat unit on this map.
Knight Proof - Lionel
Lionel will have gained enough EXP to promote at the end of the chapter.

Formation:
Yuni, Maerhen, Vega, Lyria, Lionel, Plum, Racquel, Shigen

Obtained: Gatling Bow, Repair Staff, Knight Crest, God Hand
Turn 1: Used WLV Plus on Yuni; used SKL Plus on Maerhen.
Turn 9: Promoted Lionel to sergeant.

The way that the tile counting works out with this formation allows for the map to be nearly precisely 10-turned, but it's still pretty luck-reliant. The reason for this is because the opuses can just block the way and prevent units from reaching their targets. Shigen, Vega, and Yuni have enough AS that they have more avo when standing on a forest tile than the opuses have hit, which exacerbates the problem because enemies don't attack units whom they can't hit. One way to help get around this is to equip a heavier weapon to lower the user's avo.

Vega led the group so that he could engage the arch opus boss on turn 5 PP, which allowed Yuni to open the Repair Staff chest on turn 6. Yuni then headed towards the Hero Proof chest with Shigen clearing the way. After Vega eliminated the boss, he accompanied Holmes to the Gatling Bow chest. This part of the strategy was particularly likely to go wrong because Vega could only advance one tile ahead of Holmes. Lastly, Lionel cleared up the opuses near the Knight Proof chest, with Racquel helping out a little in case he missed.

Lyria used the Power Staff on Yuni and Maerhen to help them OHKO opuses.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Holmes 9.17 32 12 10 13 8 0 7 11
Vega 13.33 34 14 18 20 8 2 8 14
Racquel 15.12 26 13 20 17 8 0 9 19
Yuni 5.65 19 1 8 13 0 3 10 9
Katri 2.72
Shigen 12.47 30 12 18 19 7 0 6 11
Lionel 10.98 33 12 11 16 8 0 4 12
Maerhen 17.02 28 9 5 5 4 0 1 6
Plum 5.29 19 0 2 3 1 4 10 4
Lyria 3.23 18 0 2 3 2 4 12 4

Cleared in 10 turns.

Edited June 27, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

Wow, I did map 14 exactly the same except Lionel also went with Holmes and Shigen (so that Zeek wouldn't get too much exp).

[dondon151]

Chapter 17

Assignments:
Armorslayer - Sasha
Sasha needs the Armorslayer to weaken the iron knights and ORKO the ballista.
Killing Edge - Sasha
In case the bishop boss doesn't equip a weapon, Sasha can double him with a KE and have a reasonable chance at a KO over 2 turns.
Bridge Key - Sasha
Sasha has just enough movement to unlock the bridge on turn 2 so that Narron can use his maximum movement.

I also gave Sasha an Iron Shield (2) because sometimes she would get hit by all three enemies on turn 1 and die, but it didn't get used at all.

Formation:
(2) Raffin, Rennie, Narron, Sasha, ..., (7) Meriah, Julia

Turn 2: Raffin learns Plains Fighter.
Obtained: Thunder Sword, Saint Proof, Magic Shield (4), Hero Proof, SKL Plus, Quick Rain (21), Salia Tome

Sasha and Narron moved north through the bridge, then Sasha went to engage the bishop boss while Narron chased down the duke boss. Raffin detoured for the Plains Fighter tutor and then also chased down the duke. Julia, Meriah, and Rennie walked across the shoals in the middle of the map to visit the Saint Proof house and assist in killing the subordinates.

Normally I would like to have Meriah chip at the duke with Starlight, which penetrates his Steel Shield and does a lot of damage, but his AI is unpredictable and sometimes he moves too far away. Fortunately, Leonhart's NPCs took out 2 uses of his Steel Shield, so Raffin and Narron combined for the KO. Rennie helped to deplete an Iron Shield, leaving an enemy in KO range for Meriah.

Sasha ORKO'd the bishop boss with a KE critical, then she hunted down the ballista for a Quick Rain. She was 1 str short of 2HKOing the ballista with an Armorslayer, so one of the unused units got the Thunder Sword on turn 1 and traded it to her.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Runan 7.87
Sasha 19.96 29 8 13 20 5 11 13 10
Raffin 18.50
Narron 24.76 43 22 15 16 14 6 16 14
Enteh 6.52
Julia 2.98
Meriah 2.03 20 0 6 8 2 7 6 5
Rennie 3.13

Cleared in 5 turns.

Chapter 18

Assignments:
Dragon Flute - Sasha
Sasha will hit L20 before the end of the map and should promote.
Thunder Sword - Sasha
Sasha loses 6 mag when dismounting, but it's also her only ranged option, and it bypasses the wood shooters' enormous def.
Armorslayer - Raffin
Raffin needs this to help Narron break in.
Magic Shield - Narron
This reduces the damage that Narron has to sustain from the mage when he's dueling the boss.
SKL Plus - Narron
The reliability of the boss strategy is pretty low, and the SKL Plus adds 9 hit on both attacks.
Estoc - Narron
Narron needs an Estoc for the reliable bosskill strategy.
Salia Tome - Narron
Narron will gain the most EXP in this map.
Quick Rain - Thomas
I think this is the best use of Quick Rain in the entire game.

There's really no single best way to distribute shields in this map. Frailer frontline units (basically anyone not Narron) will want some shields to protect against the plethora of enemy bow users and the Quick Rain ballista. However, better shields tend to be wasted against enemy harpy attacks. Runan at least can pull out a shield from the convoy whenever he wants to. Sasha and Raffin went through half of an Iron Shield and a whole Leather Shield. I also gave Meriah a Leather Shield so that she wouldn't get OHKO'd by a Stonehenge, because she can only reduce their hit rate into the 30s when not standing on a forest tile.

Formation:
(3) Meriah, ..., (5) Shirou, Sasha, Narron, Rennie, Raffin, ..., (11) Sharon, Thomas

Turn 1: Used Super Proof on Narron.
Turn 4: Promoted Sasha to dracoknight.

This is one of the hardest maps in the game and probably the most difficult by far in an LTC playthrough. The enemy AI is not wholly predictable and there are a ton of random variables, including harpy spawns, dodging Stonehenges, and the boss ruining a strategy by proccing one of his skills. It's a perfect place to spam the Save Staff, except Enteh is the only staff user on Runan's team and she might be busy using Physic instead.

On turn 1, I dismounted Sasha and Raffin and had them work on breaking down the door. Sasha opened the door on turn 2, allowing Raffin to ORKO the first armor knight and Narron to get within the city walls. On the subsequent turn, Sasha and Raffin took down the Gatling Bow wood shooter together and Narron positioned himself to counter the boss on EP.

Meanwhile, Meriah, Sharon, Rennie, and Shirou were on harpy patrol. The bow users smote a harpy each and proved useful. Meriah OHKO'd the top Stonehenge ballista with Starlight on turn 3. Thomas's Quick Rain helped to secure two kills on turns 3 and 4 that impeded progress. Quick Rain isn't very useful against harpies because the accuracy is pretty bad.

Up to turn 3, Sasha and Raffin were more or less unscathed thanks to either shields or dodging Stonehenges. Sasha's low def made her a high priority target, but with Raffin's support in range, she only faced 15 hit. I had Enteh use the Save Staff here (though since I'm playing on emulator, it technically wasn't needed). The boss strategy went wrong in every way possible, with Barbarossa getting a Pavise, Sol, or crit proc, or Narron or Raffin missing. The plan that I had was for Narron to counter with an Armorslayer on turn 3 EP, then KO with an Estoc on turn 4 PP. Narron needs 22 str for this to work.

There were a couple of interesting details that I noticed in this chapter. First was that Narron inexplicably had 30 higher hit against Barbarossa on turn 3 EP than he had on turn 4 PP. Second was that Thomas made it more likely for the summoner boss to run away instead of summon harpies (though this was not always the case). Third was that Thomas loses a ton of stats when he equips Quick Rain because it forces him to change into a lame ballista. He ends up losing a lot of def, so it was necessary for Meriah to kill the top Stonehenge ballista and for the area to be clear of harpies in order to ensure Thomas's safety.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Runan 8.17 29 8 10 10 4 0 9 8
Sasha 20.00 35 11 14 19 9 6 13 12
Raffin 19.86 38 16 13 13 13 1 9 15
Narron 27.02 45 23 19 18 14 7 16 14
Enteh 6.94
Thomas 3.69
Meriah 2.90
Sharon 7.35 25 8 9 11 6 0 8 8
Rennie 3.51
Shirou 5.53

Cleared in 4 turns.

Chapter 19

Assignments:
Magic Shield - Runan
Runan has to take a dark knight attack and a sorceror attack. He wants a low def so that the mummies will also suicide on him, so the Magic Shield sponges the Evil Worm.
Salia Tome - Runan
With my plan, Runan can get up to all four of the mummy kills, giving him a bunch of level ups.

Formation:
(4) Narron, Raffin, Sasha, Thomas, (10) Sharon, Meriah, Shirou

Obtained: Silver Axe

Hooray for easy chapters! Sasha and Raffin paved the way for Narron to engage the boss. Narron could only double with an Estoc, and he was 1 atk short of cleanly 2HKOing, but he got a Blazing Wind critical and OHKO'd the boss. Thomas used Quick Rain to put one of the dark knights in Runan's KO range with an Iron Sword on turn 1 EP. Shirou and Meriah took the right path to get the Silver Axe.

If Runan has less than 7 def, the mummies can damage him and will therefore attack him. Runan can get about 80 EXP per kill if they all suicide on him. All four kills were fed to Runan, but his level ups were somewhat lackluster.

Sometimes the Silver Axe is difficult to obtain because the summon positions are random. Raffin can ORKO the dark knight standing in the way and Meriah can potentially remove an ogre summoned in an inconvenient position.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Runan 11.70 30 9 10 12 4 0 9 10
Sasha 21.20 35 12 15 19 9 6 13 12
Raffin 20.38 39 16 13 14 14 1 9 16
Narron 28.44 45 24 19 18 15 7 17 14
Enteh 7.15 16 0 8 8 1 10 9 9
Thomas 3.82
Meriah 3.04 20 0 6 8 2 7 7 6
Sharon 7.72
Shirou 5.65

Cleared in 2 turns.

Edited June 27, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

An untrained Sasha is surprisingly good at obtaining the Silver Axe (good weapon for Loffaru/Lionel I guess and you can pass one to each).

I've also observed the EP hit rate discrepancy. Maybe (some?) bosses lose their throne bonuses when they attack the player units?

[dondon151]

Chapter 20 (Encounter 1)

Assignments:
Gatling Bow - Holmes
Holmes can't ORKO gargoyles without a Master Bow or multiple attacks.
Master Bow - Racquel
Racquel needs this to OHKO a gargoyle.

Formation:
Plum, Zeek, Racquel, Sun, Mahter, Yuni

Turn 1: Yuni learns Mountain Fighter; Sun learns Arena Fighter
Turn 2: Plum learns Frontier Fighter

Most encounters have randomized enemy and player starting positions, but I think this one is not randomized. Zeek had the role of clearing out the left side while Mahter did the same on the right. The skeletons and ogres are physically durable, so Mahter used a good chunk of the Thunder Sword to help rout the map. The NPC bow master on the right side of the map helped take down a harpy and a skeleton.

Plum danced Zeek on turn 1, learned FF on turn 2, and danced Sun on turn 3. Sun got in 3 rounds of arena combat for a level up. There's no particular reason why I tutored MF to Yuni, but seeing as there are no more mountain chapters in the game, it does make encounters 3 and 4 go slightly faster.

On one attempt, a Dragon Axe dropped from the boss, but I couldn't save that one because I couldn't finish the rout.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Holmes 9.83
Mahter 14.57 24 10 12 16 7 10 14 10
Racquel 15.52
Zeek 13.46 37 18 15 17 15 9 9 13
Yuni 5.65
Katri 2.96
Plum 5.63

Cleared in 3 turns.

Chapter 20 (Encounter 2)

Assignments:
Scimitar - Sun
Sun needs a Scimitar to have enough atk at base to OHKO mummies.
Slim Lance - Sun
With a str proc, Sun can OHKO mummies with a Slim Lance, which has 20 more hit.

Deployed:
Plum, Mahter, Sun

Obtained: WLV Plus

I had to reset until the enemy positions and Sun and Plum's starting positions were good enough. Plum danced Sun on turn 1 and she charged in, sword swinging. Mahter flew out over the mountains and picked off a mummy on turn 2 PP that got too far away to suicide into Sun on EP.

One of the other units that got deployed retrieved the WLV Plus.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Holmes 9.83
Mahter 15.37 24 10 12 17 7 10 15 10
Katri 2.96
Plum 5.97
Sun 10.13 24 10 10 11 7 3 6 9

Cleared in 2 turns.

Chapter 20 (Encounter 3)

Deployed:
Yuni, Maruj, Racquel, Plum, Lionel, Maerhen, Vega, Shigen, Lyria

Obtained: Herb, Estoc

Mugged: Silver Axe

I had to open the north and northeast chests (the chest locations are fixed for the first encounters in these maps). I got a map with very few enemies, so there's not much to say. I think this map can be theoretically 3-turned with very favorable starting positions for Yuni and Plum, but I couldn't be bothered to reset for it.

Cleared in 4 turns.

Chapter 20 (Encounter 4)

Deployed:
Yuni, Maruj, Racquel, Plum, Lionel, Maerhen, Vega, Shigen, Lyria

Obtained: Gold Bag, Healing Drop

The required chests the first time through are the ones to the northeast and near the starting point. By the way, in case you're wondering, Lyria has been spamming her Sing skill the entire time.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Holmes 10.78 32 12 11 14 9 0 8 11
Vega 13.80
Racquel 15.64
Maruj 3.73
Yuni 5.65
Katri 2.96
Shigen 13.09 30 12 19 20 7 0 7 11
Lionel 11.96 33 13 11 16 9 0 5 13
Maerhen 17.78
Plum 7.10 19 0 2 4 1 6 12 5
Lyria 4.47 18 0 2 4 2 4 13 4

Cleared in 3 turns.

Chapter 20 (Main)

Formation:
Frau, ..., (5) Vega, Shigen, Plum, Mahter, Racquel, Lionel, Sun, Lyria

Turn 1: Promoted Sun to black knight.

The bulk of the infantry and the fliers advanced through the valley and engaged the crowd of gargoyles. Sun, meanwhile, promoted on turn 1 and slowly trudged through the swamp to feast on the opuses for EXP. Frau got some combat EXP off the gargoyles.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Holmes 11.17 33 12 12 14 9 0 9 11
Mahter 16.13 25 10 12 17 7 11 16 10
Vega 14.30 35 14 18 21 8 2 8 14
Racquel 16.16 27 13 20 17 8 1 9 19
Katri 3.20 19 0 4 9 1 7 5 9
Shigen 13.09
Lionel 12.51 33 14 12 16 9 0 5 13
Plum 7.70 19 0 2 4 1 6 12 5
Frau 1.91
Sun 12.19 30 13 15 15 12 3 6 13
Lyria 5.15 18 0 2 5 2 4 13 4

Cleared in 4 turns.

Anyway, I was experimenting with your idea in chapter 21 and I can confirm that the 5-turn is indeed possible. It's insanely unlikely though, because I couldn't rig a breath attack on Holmes to weaken him, so he had to get hit twice by the ogre at ~70 hit. He then has to dodge both Evil Worm sorcs at ~60 hit, in addition to Katri not missing a single target with her breath (L) and the other combat units not dying. It's only really feasible on emulator with savestates, I think.

I tried giving Holmes an Amulet, but the enemies see that and won't attack him.

Edited June 28, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

Do you think the 5-turn completion of map 21 could warrant taking Enteh's Save staff with Holmes instead? It would also help ensure Maerhen doesn't whiff the sperms in map 16. Map 18 would really suffer though - Barbarossa is a bitch to 2RKO.

There's a Save staff under the Mama Sperm boss of map 21, but even if you give Mahter, like, a Magic shield/Amulet and a Power staff boost, I doubt anybody can get the chest before Holmes seizes.

So in the map 21 5-turn strat, I'm assuming Katri travels southwest and wipes everyone out (ideally) besides the bottom Sorc, whom another characters takes out? The north party is pretty clear - weakened Holmes strat, hurt the summoners and canto away, but what about the northeastern gang? How many characters do you need and what's the general strat?

If it's something like a 10% probability I think I might return a couple maps back and re-do the chapter - it sounds worthy enough of the effort invested.

[dondon151]

alright so here's how it goes down

as you've surmised correctly, katri kills 8 units at once in the west group. before that, i had shigen draw away the dragon, so he ends up being down there as well, and the last remaining sorc is an easy ORKO.

in the north, a single mounted unit kills one summoner, cantos back, gets danced by plum, kills the other summoner, then blocks off the top chokepoint. holmes stands behind that unit with <18 HP (assuming he has 0 res) and a longbow equipped. the mounted unit needs 10 AS with a pilum (so minimum 17 agi) to double the summoners. you can't kill the one with a gargoyle staff any other way. zeek is obviously the easiest candidate, but he needs to be at ~L15 on average and he will also end up gaining a bunch of additional EXP. a reasonably leveled sun is still a couple of points off on average. the last possibility is for holmes to KO one of the dark knights from 3-range, but he would also need to have 15 str.

the east side is easy: just have 3 guys kill both of the sorcs and the summoner. they need to have a 1-2 range weapon equipped to KO the witch on counter (since she will prioritize walking over warping). i had mahter kill the summoner with a lighter weapon and then retreat over the mountain out of the witch's range.

4 RNG-related things need to happen:

1. holmes dodges both sorcs. they have 81 hit to his avo, which came out to 56 for me. add lan's mirror on top of that and he faces ~51 hit. there is no possibility for a support within range.

2. katri hits all 8 of her targets. if the hit calculation is just katri's hit minus target avo, the summoners and witch face 80-90 hit (depending on their luk) and the dark knights face 70-80 hit.

3. holmes gets his HP reduced to KO range. this is actually kind of difficult. he's off opening a chest on turn 2 and he has to stay away from the enemy dragon. i think that what one should try to do is to manipulate the top right skeleton to move towards treasure chest 1 instead of outside the ruins. this way, holmes can get attacked after he opens the chest on turn 2. equipping a gatling bow should render him susceptible to being doubled by the skeletons easily, and maybe even by the ogre. the arch ogre for some reason always runs away instead of attacking.

4. the other units don't die. i think this can be easily buffered with shields. the combat unit to the east (usually lionel for me) should take the magic shield and maybe a leather shield while the combat unit to the north might want a leather shield or an iron shield depending on his/her def stat.

so i don't know if this game uses 1-RN or 2-RN calculations. either way, holmes has a 25% chance to not die against the sorcs. assuming a 2-RN system, katri has at least ~95 true hit on the magic users, but a bit less against the dark knights. we can approximate this value to 0.85^4, which cuts our success rate in roughly half. with a 1-RN system, this is a bit worse. finally, if we simply ignore the likelihoods of everything else, the chance of success is ~12.5% given a 2-RN system and <10% given a 1-RN system.

[Othin]

Wasn't the 2-RN system not implemented until the GBA games? I can't imagine why it would be in TRS.

Also, I haven't played TRS enough to say, but from Berwick's wonky hit rates and how they tend to work out, I'm pretty sure it's got a 1-RN system. Not conclusive of anything, but I really don't think the Saga games ever implemented the 2-RN system. Better to assume 1-RN until indicated otherwise.

[Espinosa]

I know it's a PEMN-worthy statement but just judging by the number of <15hit attacks that frequently connect the presence of the 1-RN system is pretty obvious to me.

[dondon151]

my personal experiences indicate otherwise (or my expectations are too low), but intuitively it is better to assume a 1-RN system. in that case, then there's a 10% chance of success assuming that getting holmes's HP low and other combat units not dying are guaranteed.

anyway, i'm not sure how one expects to 2RKO barbarossa normally. your best bet is an EP counter + PP attack so that he loses his gate bonus on the EP attack and he doesn't get gate healing (which nullifies a lot of damage). the armorslayer is incredibly inaccurate - an average skl narron will have maybe around 65 hit on the EP counter and 35 hit on the PP attack. he needs only 18 str to 2HKO. if he uses armorslayer on the EP counter and switches to an estoc on PP for higher hit, he'll have 65/70 hit, but then he needs 22 str to 2HKO, which he averages at ~L31. you have nothing to augment his atk - not even a POW plus. and introducing any further attacks into the equation drops the rate of success by at least half, since most units won't muster more than 70 hit with an estoc and barbarossa has a 36% chance to nullify any attack that does get through.

doubling barbarossa with narron is also mostly out of the equation. narron needs 20 agi to double with an estoc and he doesn't reach that on average until L40. we need to save the AGI pluses for sierra.

my personal opinion is that the save staff is still best used on runan's route for chapter 18. using the armorslayer - estoc strategy, there's an 18.6% chance of success. an armorslayer x2 strategy has a 9.3% chance of success. a 3-hit armorslayer - estoc - raffin strategy (assuming raffin has 75 hit with needle spear) has an 8.9% chance of success. this is comparable to chapter 21's chance of success. however, the part of chapter 21 leading up to turn 5 is pretty formulaic, whereas the part of chapter 18 leading up to turn 3 has a lot of random fluctuation in the harpy summons and stonehenge attacks. the final variable to consider is chapter 16. there is plenty of opportunity to savescum in chapter 16, and a bigger problem than maerhen missing is unfavorable random movement of the sperm. i'm not sure how good my strategy was, though. you probably had an easier time than i did because of a +mov lionel.

[Espinosa]

My Lionel didn't get to do a whole lot, really. He only promoted when all the sperm was dead, so he was comparable to an instapromoted Shigen for example (and in fact losing to him in hit rates).

Interesting analysis of the choice what to do with the Memory staff. I agree that the actions until turn 5 are very easy to repeat and, once figured out, the dragon can be lured in any direction you desire.

I also found the map 16 10-turn strat to be reliable enough. It's unclear how many times we'd want to use the Save staff there, too - every turn? Probably not, even though Lyria doesn't do a whole lot after using the Power staff 2-3 times.

[dondon151]

i think you'd want to use the save staff once your units start going into the forest. the opuses stop attacking them at that point and it becomes very easy for the strategy to go wrong. after they clear the forest, you can maybe skip a turn until the units start approaching the chests.

[dondon151]

wow i'm so mad right now

i think you can 1-turn chapter 22. zachariah moves to attack units in range, and if plum has PF, another 8-move unit with PF can end his turn in zach's range on turn 1. so now i have to go all the way back to before chapter 16 to tutor PF to sun. (but my last save is before chapter 9, so...)

Chapter 21

Assignments:
Pilum - Zeek, Lionel, Sun
This should go without saying, but Zeek needs a Pilum to attack one of the summoners from the north and Lionel and Sun need one to counter a Witch from the east.
Magic Shield - Lionel
Lionel and Sun can share the Magic Shield to sponge the sorcerors' counters.
Leather Shield - Sun
Sun is hit hard by the dark knights and can't reliably dodge them.
Gatling Bow - Holmes
The Gatling Bow kills Holmes's avo and AS, letting him be doubled by orcs and skeletons so that he can get in KO range of a sorceror.

Formation:
Shigen, Plum, Mahter, Zeek, Lionel, Sun

Obtained: Dolharken, Dakruon, Repair Hammer

Damn, I hate trying to 5-turn this map. There are just too few deployed units. The key to 5-turning this map is killing all of the reinforcement summoners and sorcerors. The summoners can't attack (and therefore can't get killed on counter) and the sorcs have a 1-3 range Evil Worm tome.

The first four turns are formulaic. On turn 1, Plum danced Shigen, who began baiting the dragon. Katri transformed into her dragon form; Mahter moved to the tile below the Dolharken chest to draw in the top right skeleton. Lionel and Sun, who would later handle the enemies from the east, did not advance very far on turn 1 in order to manipulate the skeleton to move left instead of right. The arch ogre actually prefers to run away, so there's no problem if Plum or Holmes walk within range.

On turn 2, Holmes opened the Dolharken chest and Shigen continued to bait the dragon to the west. Katri moved to the tile 2L of the chest to wall Holmes from the dragon. Plum needs to dance Holmes on either turn 3 or 4 in order for Holmes to obtain the Dakruon by turn 4. Katri and Shigen continued to go to the left; Zeek and Plum made their way to slightly north of center, and Mahter, Lionel, and Sun positioned themselves to the right. If Holmes's team has the Save Staff, turn 4 is a good time to use it.

On turn 5, Katri OHKO'd eight of the LHS reinforcements with her Breath (L). She has 70-80 hit on the dark knights and 80-90 hit on the magic users, amounting to roughly a cumulative <20% chance at success. Shigen wiped up the bottom sorceror. Zeek ORKO'd the Gargoyle Staff summoner first, retreated into Plum's range, then ORKO'd the Ogre Staff summoner, cantoing to block the north chokepoint. Holmes lined up behind Zeek and equipped the Longbow in preparation for EP. Lionel and Sun each ORKO'd a sorc on the right side. Mahter took care of the last remaining summoner, then she retreated over the mountains.

The two remaining sorcerors will prioritize attacking Holmes, since he is in KO range. He needs to dodge both of their attacks (~50 hit) to ORKO them on counter. With the proper formation and shields on Lionel, he shouldn't be at risk of death either.

One of the ogres randomly dropped a Repair Hammer on the revised run.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Holmes 12.01 34 12 12 15 10 0 10 11
Mahter 16.47 25 10 12 17 7 11 16 10
Zeek 16.26 39 20 17 18 15 10 10 15
Katri 3.20
Shigen 13.29
Lionel 13.11 34 14 12 16 9 0 6 13
Plum 8.30 19 0 2 5 1 6 13 5
Sun 14.59 31 14 17 16 12 4 6 14

Cleared in 5 turns.

Other notes: units need 10 AS to double summoners and 21 atk to 2HKO dark knights. Holmes wants at maximum 32 HP, 9 def, 0-1 mag so that one round of combat against the skeleton puts him in KO range of the sorcs. I had to rig an extra round of combat against the ogre.

Edited June 28, 2013 by dondon151

[PKL]

Ouch...

[dondon151]

yeah i really don't want to go back to chapter 9 since the maps after the first division are all of the most difficult ones in the game (i'd have to do chapters 16, 18, and 21 again), but i must save that one turn!

of course there could also be something dumb like zachariah never moving on turn 1 EP, but i doubt it.

[Espinosa]

We need 43 atk to 2HKO Zachariah, or 12 str with an Armorslayer and a Power staff boost, 19 AS (this could be a bit too high). Alternatively, rig a crit.

And I totally missed the possibility of the 1-turn myself, going to go back a few saves. Maybe to C14 so that I can get the AGI Plus? Can't lose those precious turns (I love the direction this thread has taken).

[dondon151]

you can ORKO with hit + crit using a KE if you have at least 15 str and 15 agi. sun should reach 15 agi on average at L14, but she'd be 2-3 points short on str. this wouldn't be a terrible place to use a POW plus as insurance, because i don't think you really need it anywhere else (or just RNG abuse her). i never used the POW plus on yuni because the likelihood of her getting blocked by a full HP boss spawn opus in chapter 16 is so low that it wasn't worth the investment. i also think that with a slightly different chapter 21 plan, i can get sun another level.

the thing that i was most worried about wrt the POW plus is raffin being unable to finish off ernst in our chapter 34 strat. however, he only needs 15 str. loffarl doesn't need a POW plus for julius, either (though he will need to hit all 4 times with a gatling bow). there's also still the chapter 25 POW plus in play.

anyway i think i might take a break from this now that i need to backtrack to chapter 9 again.

oh, and against barbarossa, i don't suppose it would be a terrible idea to use the chapter 17 SKL plus on narron, either. it increases narron's hit rate and decreases barbarossa's sol proc rate. the chapter 25 SKL plus would best go to sierra.

ACTUALLY i just had another idea for chapter 35. warp sierra next to julius with an amulet. have her attack julius on turn 1 PP (or not attacking works fine either, since sierra's hit just barely scrapes 50 at best). when julius attacks her on turn 1 EP, as long as she has <35 combined HP + def, the amulet will prevent her from taking damage. once she connects her counter with sylpheed, julius's double attack is blocked. KO on turn 2 PP. there's a bishop behind julius, but sierra gets 3 chances to attack, so even assuming that this doesn't work exactly as planned, one could use something more reliable like a repeater bow instead of the gatling bow.

Edited June 24, 2013 by dondon151