Why is LTC hated?

[MacLovin]

Thany's contribution to cutting turns is pretty minimal, really. Vanessa does really good in drafts though.

IIRC. Thany is debatedly the best pick for fe6 drafts due to the statboosters early on.

[General Horace]

I'm sure if someone wanted to do a really random run *coughbesidesmecough*, it would be welcome. Whether or not it's worth the effort to record it is another matter.

I hope it wasn't implied that it was a bad thing to do such thing, but it's just not something you see very often. Most runs aren't just plain start to finish run throughs (which is what I was trying to say) without some sort of gimmick (such as your skittles runs or shin's let's rages). It was kind of a bad example though, I don't know how to word what I'm trying to say.

Edited June 5, 2013 by General Horace

[Espinosa]

There's no shortage of "random" playthroughs; just go to YouTube or something.

[eclipse]

I hope it wasn't implied that it was a bad thing to do such thing, but it's just not something you see very often. Most runs aren't just plain start to finish run throughs (which is what I was trying to say) without some sort of gimmick (such as your skittles runs or shin's let's rages). It was kind of a bad example though, I don't know how to word what I'm trying to say.

I'd say it was a GOOD example. Most "average" runs of FE simply wouldn't be entertaining to read or write. Thus, stuff like LTC will stick out more because there's more likely to be runthrough topics of it. Let's not forget the tier lists, too!

(it wasn't implied that it was bad, it's simply not done enough. . .hello, people reading this, if you wanna make some FE runthrough that isn't LTC and is somehow interesting, then go for it!)

[Tamanoir]

Just a small nitpick. Casual players aren't necessary Grinders, you know. Even if I tend to grind, it becomes annoying after a while. (Yeah, look who's talking...)

It is also possible that the LTC's perceived elitism comes from both ways. we may tend to feel easily offensed because we sees LTC everywhere those days.

Honnestly, this isn't a playstyle for me because I always wants to level equally the units I'm using (Awakening is different, notably with 2nd Seals...).

Oh, and taking games too seriously is the very reasons we're here. There won't be any interresting discussions that rapidly derails into Popcorn worthy debates eitherwise !

Still better than indifference... ; ]

Edited June 5, 2013 by TendaSlime

[MacLovin]

yeah well, LTC gets confused with efficiency and draft-LTC.

[Espinosa]

We don't really unanimously agree on definitions of LTC, efficiency and related terms though. Some like to specify "brisk pace", "maximum efficiency", "efficient LTC" and all sorts of other things.

IIRC. Thany is debatedly the best pick for fe6 drafts due to the statboosters early on.

FE6 drafts were mostly Normal Mode though, weren't they? HM Thany has issues getting kills alone, assuming you're babying her, and even given plenty of attention is on average far from capable of good combat.

[Chiki]

I think the people here take video games too seriously. There is no LTC elitism. I've posted a lot of threads in which I talk about casual play (like my Apeotheosis team and my grinding run).

I think the people here just like to jump on others, simply put, and act like there's something wrong when there isn't.

Anyway, some of the people who don't like LTC are hypocrites. It's okay for them to insult us players, but we never do.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Chiki

[ZemZem]

IIRC. Thany is debatedly the best pick for fe6 drafts due to the statboosters early on.

Unfortunately there are no energy rings during the earlygame, which Shanna (come on, use her localized name, people) really wants.

[BrightBow]

I think the people here take video games too seriously. There is no LTC elitism. I've posted a lot of threads in which I talk about casual play (like my Apeotheosis team and my grinding run).

I think the people here just like to jump on others, simply put, and act like there's something wrong when there isn't.

Anyway, some of the people who don't like LTC are hypocrites. It's okay for them to insult us players, but we never do.

How is it not elitism to refer to any playstyle other then LTC as "casual"?

Edited June 5, 2013 by BrightBow

[Rehab]

I don't hate, dislike, or even feel indifference towards it, I think it's plenty interesting actually. It just seems to me that people have a tendency to assume playing the game in any non-braindead capacity (ie with any degree of planning whatsoever) is automatically being done with ltc aims, and/or that a lower turn count is explicitly a sign of a "better" playthrough/player. Which I think is annoying as h*ck

Edited June 5, 2013 by Rehab

[Espinosa]

Unfortunately there are no energy rings during the earlygame, which Shanna (come on, use her localized name, people) really wants.

It's Thany period, don't you dare change his name!

And Thany wants a lot more than just an Energy Ring. Two robes, a Secret Book, a Speedwings and a Dracoshield all before chapter 11 sound pretty nice though.

[Chiki]

How is it not elitism to refer to any playstyle other then LTC as "casual"?

I referred to playstyles which play for no reason other than the sake of enjoyment to be "casual." How is that elitism?

[Da Bear]

How is it not elitism to refer to any playstyle other then LTC as "casual"?

Especially when the people who do those PTs are often on Classic

I would like to point out that using the Tellius games for examples on resource use isn't the best idea...

I referred to playstyles which play for no reason other than the sake of enjoyment to be "casual." How is that elitism?

Because people who prefer doing "random" PTs are offended by it I guess.

[ZemZem]

It's Thany period, don't you dare change his name!

And Thany wants a lot more than just an Energy Ring. Two robes, a Secret Book, a Speedwings and a Dracoshield all before chapter 11 sound pretty nice though.

D: *memories of that GameFAQs topic pour in mind*

Oh yeah, that's true. Generally, her SPD and SKILL don't need that much help. I think others want those two staboosters more than her unless she gets screwed in the stats, or something. The robes and the dracoshield, though, I agree. Her durability would much improve there. I can't believe I forgot about that.

[BrightBow]

I referred to playstyles which play for no reason other than the sake of enjoyment to be "casual." How is that elitism?

So LTCs play not for enjoyment?

[Chiki]

Well, it's perfectly fine if they're "offended" by it, but there's no reason to insult LTC "elitists" when they never personally insulted anyone in the first place.

No LTC player has insulted anyone on this forum due to LTCs. Also, no LTC player has told a casual player that the way they play the game is wrong. I myself spend the vast majority of my time playing casually.

Like I said, people like to make up stories to complain about. There's no truth to this.

Examples of hypocrisy:

1) Because tier list players tend to talk like LTC is the only way to play and will often insult players who try to tier otherwise.

2) LTC players have a tendency to be VERY elitist.

3) Many of them seem to be incapable of fathoming character-rankings without obsessing over LTC.

4) They tend to be willing to insult other players teams for using non-optimal characters.

5) To them it seems (at least far too often) that there is only people who play for absolute lowest turncounts ('Real players') and people who only play with big-titted girls and do nothing but dally around on maps like idiots. No middle ground at all.

That's why I hate LTC and LTC players and tierers. If LTC was 'just' another style of play I wouldn't have a problem with it. But to many LTCers it's the only style of play and even trying anything else labels you as an incompetent moron. It's like being paired with the guy who obsessively grinds in arena's in WoW in a bout of AV. He is MORE than glad to insult you for every little mis-step and call you a 'n00b' because you died once when you 'shouldn't have' and tell you to leave unless you spent months grinding out the best gear while ignoring his own faults and mistakes (which are, of course, because of you and never because of him or, at best, because the other team is being cheap).

There's nothing wrong with LTC. My main problem is with those consider it the only way, criticising and even mocking those who play differently. However, the people who hate LTC because they think it's stupid and a way for egomaniacs to brag about themselves are pretty much as bad. Pure LTC and "alternate" tier lists are just as bad. LTC lists define who is the most useful in saving turns, not who is overall the "best" unit. Likewise, alternate lists giving credit to units for their wonderful supports and the fact they have good 20/20 stats are silly too.

Horace for bottom tier.

It's not LTC that is hated, or any other playstyle for that matter.

It's the people behind it that are.

Nobody likes arrogant, elitist people who quickly become outright insulting and twist anything they read into what they want to read. That these certain few individuals happen to be LTCers around here is really just coincidence.

i feel like snowy here is the only one who legitimately cannot accept LTC and everyone else just hates aeine all of the elitist dicks who tend to spew "omg ltc is the only way to play"

(i'm sure part of this is my fault as well, before anyone else wags an irony finger at me)

Most LTC players annoy me because many of them think they're hot shit and tactical geniuses for overusing the Jeigan/prepromotes.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Chiki

[Espinosa]

Aeine, you should know by now you've directly insulted plenty of people here, though I'm inclined to believe it is because you have issues with wording the connotations properly. They may not understand or try to understand though.

Also, Shin wasn't insulting anybody in that post of his I'm pretty sure.

D: *memories of that GameFAQs topic pour in mind*

Oh yeah, that's true. Generally, her SPD and SKILL don't need that much help. I think others want those two staboosters more than her unless she gets screwed in the stats, or something. The robes and the dracoshield, though, I agree. Her durability would much improve there. I can't believe I forgot about that.

She's going to need every extra point of speed if she's taking any part in bosskilling in this game, I'd argue.

Her AS problems mostly come from her low Con though, so you're right, no need to invest in a stat she'll cap most easily. I guess the Body Ring is a good idea if you're not ferrying anybody particularly heavy?

[BrightBow]

I referred to playstyles which play for no reason other than the sake of enjoyment to be "casual." How is that elitism?

If I might come back to this a bit.

The term "casual" is dismissive. It means that someone isn't really trying or doing things halfheartedly.

By separating playstyles solely between LTC and "casual", you are putting that one style above anything else.

It doesn't get much more elitist then that.

Edited June 5, 2013 by BrightBow

[Chiki]

Aeine, you should know by now you've directly insulted plenty of people here, though I'm inclined to believe it is because you have issues with wording the connotations properly. They may not understand or try to understand though.

When was this? I've never insulted or flamed anyone on this forum. At least not intentionally.

Calling "good players" the ones who love Galeforce isn't an insult--it's a video game, lol.

The term "casual" is dismissive. It means that someone isn't really trying or doing things halfheartedly.

By separating playstyles solely between LTC and "casual" , you are putting that one style above anything else.

It doesn't get much more elitist then that.

No I'm not. It means someone is playing for enjoyment. That doesn't mean LTC is above casual. I don't know where you get that idea.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Chiki

[Tamanoir]

How is it not elitism to refer to any playstyle other then LTC as "casual"?

There are no shame to be a casual player. I'm very proudof my casual playstyle. (And I'm more casual than you because I really play in Casual Mode).

And Chiki, you also takes Video Games seriously. You won't post all these topics, and have all these discussions otherwise.

There are no shame to takes things seriously in a forums dedicated to a video game.

[ZemZem]

She's going to need every extra point of speed if she's taking any part in bosskilling in this game, I'd argue.

Her AS problems mostly come from her low Con though, so you're right, no need to invest in a stat she'll cap most easily. I guess the Body Ring is a good idea if you're not ferrying anybody particularly heavy?

If she's gonna contribute bosskilling, hopefully her STR is viable enough so she can deal quite a bit of damage. A lot of the bosses early on though are either armored or wield axes, so she's not gonna go anywhere near them.

Body ring is best invested on Thany/Shanna, yeah.

[Chiki]

There are no shame to be a casual player. I'm very proudof my casual playstyle. (And I'm more casual than you because I really play in Casual Mode).

And Chiki, you also takes Video Games seriously. You won't post all these topics, and have all these discussions otherwise.

There are no shame to takes things seriously in a forums dedicated to a video game.

I do take FE seriously, but not as much as other people here (who, I think, take it so seriously that they get offended when someone calls them a bad player, which is ridiculous).

[Shin]

Aeine, read the rest of my post that you quoted. I said that people who think that all LTCers are all egomaniacs are just as bad as the LTCer's who look down upon "casual players." My main issues are with the extremists on each side, not Casual and LTC playstyles or the player bases as a whole :P.

[Espinosa]

Look for people's reaction to you for indication when they are insulted. Telling somebody they have no clue what they're talking about cannot be perceived as anything other than an insult, for instance. If people are shouting at you, you know you're doing something wrong, because it hardly happens to anyone else.

If I might come back to this a bit.

The term "casual" is dismissive. It means that someone isn't really trying or doing things halfheartedly.

By separating playstyles solely between LTC and "casual", you are putting that one style above anything else.

It doesn't get much more elitist then that.

Let's assume we're playing something in a 'hardcore' rather than 'casual' way with no reference to LTC. Low level game (switching higher-levelled characters out), no promotions, 0% growths, mages only, girls only, whatever else.

Now assume you aim for lowest turns within the 'challenge' framework chosen. Will there be more or less planning as a result of the decision to aim for turns? And see, the answer is rather simple so I don't know what induces rage in such a belief (turns go lower, you try harder) besides specific face-threatening acts by specific users who disregard ethics or forget about it in the heat of a debate.

You can ask yourself a question; is having your playstyle somehow 'acknowledged' by Olwen or whoever else important for you, do you want him to care? If not, move along.