SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Loki Laufeyson]

And saying he started out on Nintendo is wrong too.

I never said he did.

Pretty sure Snake wouldn't have been a character in Smash Bros. if it weren't for the remake of MGS on the GameCube bringing Nintendo and Kojima together.

Yeah probably. Just like Shulk probably wouldnt have been a thing if Xenoblade Chronicles: X wasnt happening on the Wii U, and the Xenoblade 3DS port upcoming.

The only one i see being really salty about is Dark Pit and maybe Dr. Mario. Cuz why. Bowser Jr? Ehh wynaut.

[Robert Stewart]

Pretty sure Snake wouldn't have been a character in Smash Bros. if it weren't for the remake of MGS on the GameCube bringing Nintendo and Kojima together.

Actually apparently Kojima asked Sakurai to include Snake in Melee, but Sakurai didn't do it because there wasn't enough development time. They're great buddies, apparently.

Edit: Some sauce with that.

Edited August 29, 2014 by shinpichu

[euklyd]

They've got more merits than Bowser Jr.

Duck Hunt: Not requested, Retro icon.

Wii Fit Trainer: Not requested, Represents the casual side of Nintendo and is one of their top-sellers.

Bowser Jr.: Not requested, part of a fully-repped series, only a secondary villain, not retro.

bold applies to the other examples as well

underlined is actually pretty arguable; I've definitely heard a hell of a lot more "I want Bowser Jr. to be in" than I did for either of DHD or WFT

and really just because characters are icons doesn't mean they deserve a spot

No shit it's an "opinion." Jesus, one second I'm told to let someone's opinion go, the other I'm being told I shouldn't say my own.

I say what I say with confidence because it's what I believe. Calling it an "opinion" doesn't downplay any of it, and really just shows that you have little of substance to actually respond to it with. If all you're going to say is, "Well, that's your opinion!" please just don't respond again.

what was there to respond to?

you made a claim about merits and presented them as Fact without saying why

it was the presentation of "this is a bad character without merits and that is Objectively True" that I was objecting to

me calling it an opinion was not part of my disagreement with the stated opinion; it was a part of objecting to the way you framed your dismissal of Bowser Jr and everyone who actually cares about him

If you don't like my complaints, don't read them, and for your own sake, don't respond to them.

if you're going to make assertions that other people might disagree with, you ought to expect them to do so - especially if you frame them as you have been doing

if you don't want people to respond to you don't make the post

that is how forums work

[Florete]

So, to anyone who still thinks Sakurai went "girl crazy" this time around, let's knock that idea out of the park now, shall we? It's appeared in a lot of places and, as someone who likes good female characters and prefers playing as them, it's pretty annoying for me to see.

Note that this is not a complaint about the number of female characters in the game (that is more Nintendo's problem than Smash Bros.), just a rebuttal against people who would say there are "enough" or even "a lot" of female characters available.

First, let's list all the possible female characters one can play as:

1. Samus

2. Zero Suit Samus

3. Zelda

4. Sheik

5. Jigglypuff

6. Peach

7. Wii Fit Trainer

8. Villager

9. Rosalina

10. Palutena

11. Robin

12. Lucina

13. Mii

Does 13 sound like a good number? Perhaps. It's more characters than SSB64 had and half the size of the SSBM roster. But it's a little strange to really count all of those; let's take out the ones that are considered alternates, because they don't truly show up on the selection screen and aren't the main representation for the character. Let's also remove the Miis, because those are much more of a separate thing entirely:

1. Samus

2. Zero Suit Samus

3. Zelda

4. Sheik

5. Jigglypuff

6. Peach

7. Wii Fit Trainer

8. Rosalina

9. Palutena

10. Lucina

Even this is still being a bit generous; Sheik/Zelda and Samus/ZSS are technically the same person, which really reduces this to 8 separate entities, but since they appear separately on the selection screen and have unique moves, I'll count them.

And what is the size of the roster? Assuming the leak we've seen is the whole thing, 48. 10/48 = 20.8%. Better than Brawl, but still less than a quarter of the entire roster. If we miraculously get Ice Climbers, Wolf, and Lucas back? It gets reduced to 19.6% because none of them are female (Ice Climbers don't count as female because Popo is the default).

Even going back to the first list and counting all the potentially female characters one can play as, it only amounts to 27%, not even a third of the roster.

tl;dr Sakurai did not "go girl crazy" for this roster when less than half of the newcomers are female.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire

[Jotari]

I never said he did.

I know you didn't. You said he hasn't had a Nintendo game since the NES which is also wrong but not the same thing. I've just seen a lot of uninformed people trying to rationalize Snake's existence (and subsequent reappearance) in Smash by saying he started off on Nintendo.

[Anacybele]

I don't think Sakurai went girl crazy, I think he just wanted to balance the ratio between males and females a bit more. And add Palutena because of a little bias. :P

But no one answered me on my question about that other trailer. Is it ever going to be put up in English? :(

[PKL]

Nana is the default in some of the costumes of the climbers FYI.

[euklyd]

But no one answered me on my question about that other trailer. Is it ever going to be put up in English? :(

I would assume so, eventually, but I haven't seen any info

you could probably find a translation tho

[Robert Stewart]

But no one answered me on my question about that other trailer. Is it ever going to be put up in English? :(

Possibly? Or we might get our own. Japan might be getting it because their release is only a few weeks away, where as the US release is over a month away.

IDK

[metalsnowman3]

Well fortunately for all the cuts Sakurai can never take away melee or PM so we can still enjoy all the characters, though it is a bummer not seeing them.

For the ridley thing, I'm surprised they didn't make him like a semi-clone of charizard (I would rather see Ridley then doctor mario, cause doctor mario is mario... in a doctor's outfit)

[Anacybele]

Yeah, you guys have a point there. I just gotta be patient, I suppose. lol

Also, I hope what that one leak says about every character having 8 alternate costumes/colors is true. Because it makes Vanguard Ike all the more likely. Why would that one NOT be one of EIGHT possible looks for RD Ike of all his incarnations? xP

Edited August 29, 2014 by Anacybele

[Jotari]

I don't think Sakurai went girl crazy, I think he just wanted to balance the ratio between males and females a bit more. And add Palutena because of a little bias. :P

But no one answered me on my question about that other trailer. Is it ever going to be put up in English? :(

I wouldn't say Palutena was a bias inclusion. There is certainly a lot of bias in the direction of Kid Icarus but Palutena has so many Smash worthy attributes that I would have been genuinely surprised if she didn't get in. She's from an old Nintendo series that has seen a recent revival, a major character in every game in said series, one of only about three characters in Uprising who could feasibly work in Smash, uses a magic based moveset, uses a non sword based weapon and is female. There is literally no reason why Palutena shouldn't have got in even if Sakurai had nothing to do with the project. I also don't think there's any intentional balancing between genders or Sakurai's going girl crazy. It just happens that in the interlude between Brawl and Smash 4, several interesting female characters have appeared that can work in Smash.

[Florete]

Nana is the default in some of the costumes of the climbers FYI.

I know. But when you select the character, Popo is the one you immediately get, and when you fight against "default" Ice Climbers, Popo is the leader.

[IceBrand]

So #MondaoFriday?

[shadowofchaos]

Which trailer is Ana talking about?

One of them is a Japan CM.

We never get those here.

Just like Awakening's. They were different.

[PKL]

I know. But when you select the character, Popo is the one you immediately get, and when you fight against "default" Ice Climbers, Popo is the leader.

Oh, that's what you meant. Nvm then :P

[NoNameAtAll]

I HEARD NORIO WAKAMOTO AT THE END. THERE IS NO CHOICE. JP VOICES NAO.

So...Dracula? :P

俺に力を!

Edited August 29, 2014 by NoNameAtAll

[Refa]

That would be pretty awesome actually.

[Anacybele]

Which trailer is Ana talking about?

One of them is a Japan CM.

We never get those here.

Just like Awakening's. They were different.

The only one that HASN'T been seen on the English Smash site yet... Meaning the one that ISN'T Shulk's trailer. xP

[ZemZem]

Shulk is fine, but I'd trade him for Ice Climbers any day. (and not just Shulk; I'd trade most of the current newcomers away to get the Ice Climbers back)

Holy shit, this.

I need my Luigi/Jigglypuff/Ice Climbers/Toon Link core.

[IceBrand]

I don't argee with RedFox on that statement. Why trade a unique character for another?

[Loki Laufeyson]

So...Dracula? :P

俺に力を!

ngl, a Castlevania character would whomp. SIMON INTENSIFIES!

Holy shit, this.

I need my Luigi/Jigglypuff/Ice Climbers/Toon Link core.

You, off my Shulk Train. *tooooot toooooot*

[Mighty Kamina]

I'd honestly get rid of the Ice Climbers for any Newcomer aside from Wii-Fit trainer, Duck Hunt Dog, and Bowser Jr.

[ZemZem]

You, off my Shulk Train. *tooooot toooooot*

Hey now, Shulk can stay since he's a badass.

Everyone else can go, though. I want ICs back.

[IceBrand]

Hey now, Shulk can stay since he's a badass.

Everyone else can go, though. I want ICs back.

They had to leave do to global warming.