SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[BrightBow]

Dude's gotta point.

He would if those clones would actually add anything that couldn't have also been done by simply leaving them as alts as he supposedly planned. As for as I'm concerned, the only thing I got out of their inclusion is that I have to replay Classic and All-Star mode twice with the same character in order to unlock everything and that the character selection screen feels slightly off. Like, we have those massive amounts amounts of well-designed and colorful characters and then we have those three alternate costumes which were given slots at the last minute. It feels weird, if ever so slightly.

They aren't melee style clones were you can immediately feel the difference between Falco and Fox or Captain Falcon and Ganondorf. Marth and Roy were a bit less obvious but even with them you could tell instantly that at least all special moves but Dancing Blade were highly different. Counter = Fixed damage vs damaged based on the enemy attack. Dolphin Slash = Quick single hit vs slower Multi Hit. Shield Breaker = Shield Breaker properties vs slower Instant Kill properties. Most of their remaining attacks have different properties before you even factor in that their swords function differently... which is the one single thing that Lucina has to justify her status as a separate character.

It feels more like the puny differences were included to justify the separate slots rather then the other way around. I mean, it's not like it even makes sense for Lucina's weapon to have different properties then the one from Marth because it's supposedly the same weapon. And there were literally no differences between Pit and Dark Pit in Dark Pit's game.

Not that it's much of a problem, mind you. It's just a small annoyance. A tiny imperfection on the design of this amazing piece of software that most certainly took a lot of tears to create.

Edited October 12, 2014 by BrightBow

[PuffPuff]

Master Gardener crown. It's like a big crown made of ice.

No one can guess, sure, but it's safe to say it won't reach the userbase of the 3DS. Mario Kart 8 didn't give the Wii U the boost most expected, and MK is a bigger system seller than SSB.

EDIT: Huh, there is a generic crown with no hair to obtain, but that one is also a challenge (Clear All-Star with all characters).

...And we all know on why that MK gets bought more than anything else.

-Mario

-Peach

Are you sure about that? Mario Kart Wii sold more than Brawl, but that was likely due to it being a more casual game on a more casual console. SSB is a series fans are more likely to buy an entire console for.

That and Hyrule Warriors are why that I'm getting a Wii-U. :D

These games are unavoidable to play.

I'm not going to complete the 5 streetpass thing anytime soon. That is going to get hammered before long, no doubt.

I have two 3DS English systems.

I can just connect with myself to unlock those since I only battle online. :D

I've only used one hammer so far and it was for a challenge that I wouldn't have been able to get otherwise because I don't have other people to play with. It's the one that wants you to get five hits in Street Smash.

I've found out that you don't have to pass five different people to win the StreetPass challenge. I was able to win it passing the same person five times.

I'll try it with my other system. You don't even have to verse with them. Just only get five hits.

Alternatively you could save your hammers for the street pass challenges.

Probably will have to if this doesn't work by doing it with my other system.

Yeah, way to go Sakurai for saying that to all those idiot fans out there. I still would've rather had Roy or Leif as the Marth clone than Lucina, but Dr. Mario is cool with me. And somehow, Dark Pit just has more of a cool factor than regular Pit to me too.

Smash Bros. director Mashiro Sakurai explained a bit about why and how clones exist when speaking to Famitsu with translation from Nintendo Everything:

“There are 3 fighters [Lucina, Dark Pit, and Doctor Mario] that are alternate models (clones) in the game. Each was originally a color variation, but during development, they were given balanced characteristics. Since their functionality had differences, forms were separated from each other. However, it was vital that this didn’t increase the required man-hours. Some relative tuning was sufficient as it wasn’t necessary to create balancing from scratch.”

Seems logical, but Sakurai goes on to appear downright offended at the implication that fans “deserve” more from him and his team in terms of making these clones into more involved characters.

“This is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, “Change this to a meat dish!!” Yet, I’m told [to do that] about Smash Bros. But, I guess since a lot of them are children, it cannot be helped.”

But...Dr.Mario is a totally different character. He doesn't go to save the world, he goes to heal viruses through his containers and heals the sick and injured. He worked at a job of being a Plumber hero, a doctor, and a referee in Punch Out.

It's nice that they are over-presenting Kid Icarus as we may not ever get this experience again for another 25 years.

All this unlocking will have to come later as Smash hasn't completely consumed me.

Edited October 12, 2014 by PuffPuff

[Anacybele]

Um, no he's not. He's just Mario in a doctor outfit. He's not a completely different character.

[IceBrand]

I love metor smashing. How about you guys?

[BrightBow]

^

I don't. Because even after all these years I am still so awful at those games that I still can't perform a meteor smash without also fast-falling to my death.

Edited October 12, 2014 by BrightBow

[Anacybele]

I love it too since Ike can do it with FOUR different moves.

Although I too have a little trouble doing it without fast-falling to my death.

[Dai]

I've never meteor-smashed in my life. Save for the times when I've done so and they've bounced off the ground and through the ceiling.

[Gaia]

Meteor Smashing is great. Too bad Lil' Mac can't do it. When I play Mario tho, it's a blast!

Pun intended

Edited October 12, 2014 by Gaia

[Gemma]

Yeah, meteor smashing is imo the most satisfying way to get a KO

[Djing]

I was only able to consistently do it with Falco in Brawl.

:(

[NoNameAtAll]

Oh for fuck's sake, quit whining about the clones. I'll take more characters any day. And yes, Melee did clones much the same way. Young Link was /really/ not that different from Link. Woo. Fire arrows. Amazing. Roy? Wow. Such fire. So hot. Wowe. Doc Mario? Pills! WOAH! And let's not get into fucking /Pichu/.

At least Ganondorf was quite different being a slower, but powerful Captain Falcon. Guess the triforce of power decided the cap was indeed the most powerful form to take. And Falco was in a lot of ways Smash 64!Fox.

Regardless, the fact Sakurai feels he has to justify himself to a bunch of whining babies cements my theory that Smash Bros. in general destroys all sorts of logic and reason with people.

(Note I'm not talking about the stat differences, of course, because people bitching are only going OMG DARK PIT'S JUST A PALETTE SWAP even if he has differences. Same with Luci.)

Edited October 12, 2014 by NoNameAtAll

[Jotari]

I'm disappointed we didn't get a Mike Jones clone of Ness.

[Jave]

Dr. Mario differs a lot more from Mario now than he did in Melee, mostly because no FLUDD. His heavier, slower style also makes him quite different from regular Mario.

Marth and Lucina only differ on the tipper, but based on my testing of the two that's more than enough to make them very different. I prefer Lucina by a mile since I'll take her more rushing style, even at the trade of less potential damage.

I haven't tried Pit and Dark Pit much, but I did notice Dark Pit seems to have a lot less launch potential.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Jave

[Jotari]

Dr. Mario differs a lot more from Mario now than he did in Melee, mostly because no FLUDD. His heavier, slower style also makes him quite different from regular Mario.

Marth and Lucina only differ on the tipper, but based on my testing of the two that's more than enough to make them very different. I prefer Lucina by a mile since I'll take her more rushing style, even at the trade of less potential damage.

I haven't tried Pit and Dark Pit much, but I did notice Dark Pit seems to have a lot less launch potential.

I think it's been confirmed that Dark Pit is different only in his side special and final smash (which he stole from Zelda). My guess is that, despite being the first clone we seen, way back in the Palutena trailer, he was the last one they actually swapped over. There's more than enough moveset potential to give him something different to Pit, he even uses a staff in his artwork yet all he uses it for is his final smash. I imagine if Dark Pit appears in the next game he'll get a bigger makeover than any other clone we've seen so far.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Jotari

[Anacybele]

I agree with Jave on Dr. Mario at least since Dr. Mario doesn't have that stupid FLUDD. FLUDD was always more reason for me to prefer Luigi to Mario and now I prefer Dr. Mario too. Even though America Mario is awesome. :P

I've already stated what I think about the other two clones.

[Ninian]

Nintendo needs to buy Mega Man. Mega Man X Metroid, make it happen.

[IceBrand]

I think it's been confirmed that Dark Pit is different only in his side special and final smash (which he stole from Zelda). My guess is that, despite being the first clone we seen, way back in the Palutena trailer, he was the last one they actually swapped over. There's more than enough moveset potential to give him something different to Pit, he even uses a staff in his artwork yet all he uses it for is his final smash. I imagine if Dark Pit appears in the next game he'll get a bigger makeover than any other clone we've seen so far.

Dark Pit's arrows are much stronger than Pit's, but are harder like to curve.

[Comet]

spiking > meteor smashing, because it doesn't feel good when your opponent just jumps out of it. it's a shame that there aren't any good spikes in this game, unless captain falcon still has his in the upper part of his down air hitbox. marth and falco's down aerials STINK now lol.

also i remembered another clone that would have been better than dark pit: alph. nothing wrong with clones, but even then, there were better clones that the little amount of time could have gone into.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Cornet

[Gemma]

Doesn't the second hit of Meta Knight's forward air spike? That feels weird to me...

Edited October 12, 2014 by Gemma

[Florete]

Oh for fuck's sake, quit whining about the clones. I'll take more characters any day. And yes, Melee did clones much the same way. Young Link was /really/ not that different from Link. Woo. Fire arrows. Amazing. Roy? Wow. Such fire. So hot. Wowe. Doc Mario? Pills! WOAH! And let's not get into fucking /Pichu/.

At least Ganondorf was quite different being a slower, but powerful Captain Falcon. Guess the triforce of power decided the cap was indeed the most powerful form to take. And Falco was in a lot of ways Smash 64!Fox.

Regardless, the fact Sakurai feels he has to justify himself to a bunch of whining babies cements my theory that Smash Bros. in general destroys all sorts of logic and reason with people.

(Note I'm not talking about the stat differences, of course, because people bitching are only going OMG DARK PIT'S JUST A PALETTE SWAP even if he has differences. Same with Luci.)

Who is whining about the clones?

[Ragnell]

Dr. Mario is less clone-y than almost any Melee clone, since Mario has changed so much since Melee and Dr. Mario is similar to Melee Doc. Lucina and Dark Pit are on the more clone-y end, like Melee Dr. Mario and Pichu (and Falco, imo).

Lucina only has one major change: her lack of a tipper. However that does translate to a quite different strategy of attack. Marth needs to constantly keep space between him and his foe, while Lucina needs to rush the opponent and get in close. She basically functions like Roy, but lacks some of the visual flourishes he had. She has a few extra changes, like being slightly shorter, which gives her a shorter reach, and a few animations like Shield Breaker and Counter are changed.

In contrast, Dark Pit's overall playstyle is almost identical to Pit, but he actually has quite a few subtle changes: his arrows are more powerful but don't curve much, his electroshock arm launches diagonally instead of vertically, his Power of Flight goes further, a few moves have their knockback/damage tweaked, and he's slightly slower than Pit. Plus, of course, his FS is different.

And the clones all have new taunts and victory animations. I would say that's justification enough for them not to be alt costumes. As someone who occasionally uses Marth but sucks at tippers, I'm grateful for Lucina in particular.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Ragnell

[Comet]

Oh for fuck's sake, quit whining about the clones. I'll take more characters any day. And yes, Melee did clones much the same way. Young Link was /really/ not that different from Link. Woo. Fire arrows. Amazing. Roy? Wow. Such fire. So hot. Wowe. Doc Mario? Pills! WOAH! And let's not get into fucking /Pichu/.

people may not have liked him, but he was probably the most different of all the clones, both in moveset and purpose. he actually did something in the fact that he was purposely bad, which is exclusive to him. for the actual moveset, anybody willing to play a match with him should be able to see the differences. you also forgot about falco and ganon.

[metalsnowman3]

spiking > meteor smashing, because it doesn't feel good when your opponent just jumps out of it. it's a shame that there aren't any good spikes in this game, unless captain falcon still has his in the upper part of his down air hitbox. marth and falco's down aerials STINK now lol.

also i remembered another clone that would have been better than dark pit: alph. nothing wrong with clones, but even then, there were better clones that the little amount of time could have gone into.

they basically made everything spike, there are no meteor smashes cause there is no meteor cancelling

[Anacybele]

...Wait, I thought spiking and meteor smashing were the same thing?

[Gaia]

...Wait, I thought spiking and meteor smashing were the same thing?

Essentially, but you could cancel Meteor Smashes in Melee and Brawl by jumping or using an up B. Hence the term, Meteor Cancelling.