SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[IceBrand]

omg that last picture & caption... xD

If I play ZSS, I'm definitely gonna have a showdown with Shulk.

Super Beach Bros

[Anacybele]

Makes y'all wonder if Robin will get the Sorcerer swimsuit... lol

[IceBrand]

Makes y'all wonder if Robin will get the Sorcerer swimsuit... lol

Hopefully both versions.

[Mighty Kamina]

Wow, Shulk is shaping up to look like a really technical character. I'm interested, maybe I'll play as him sometimes.

One thing that I'm curios about is just how powerful the Monado's range will make Shulk.

[Alertcircuit]

They should just straight up dub the commercial and bring it here as is because it's perfect.

[Gemma]

What about Shulk makes him seem technical to you? I don't see it.

[Jedi]

What about Shulk makes him seem technical to you? I don't see it.

Oh I don't know, six stances to bounce around with both positives and negatives to each.

Then again a good chunk of the newcomers look technical as well

[IceBrand]

Does Shulk have any cool down when changing Arts?

[ClevelandSteve]

Does Shulk have any cool down when changing Arts?

I assume so, because it would be ridiculously broken if he didn't.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, he'd be even worse than Meta Knight in terms of brokenness if there wasn't some drawback to switching between these arts. I mean, changing between them whenever you want to give you whatever advantage you need? That's basically saying that for some period of time, Shulk can use the speed one to deliver fast damage and then instantly change to the one that increases launch power to finish the job.

[euklyd]

I'd imagine that even a small amount of cooldown / latency / whatever would make it considerably harder to just switch whenever you felt like it.
Especially since it takes time to cycle through like, 3 arts to get to the one you want.

I'd also imagine that the latency would only be A Thing when he's actually finished cycling through the arts (or only when he initiates), as opposed to when you're cycling past each art to get to the one you want.

[Knight]

I imagine you'll have to be standing still to switch, if you're getting beat up you can't simply switch to defence. Defeating Shulk would be about attacking him at the right time, or using his current weakness as an advantage.

[Mighty Kamina]

I'd imagine that even a small amount of cooldown / latency / whatever would make it considerably harder to just switch whenever you felt like it.

Especially since it takes time to cycle through like, 3 arts to get to the one you want.

I'd also imagine that the latency would only be A Thing when he's actually finished cycling through the arts (or only when he initiates), as opposed to when you're cycling past each art to get to the one you want.

From the leaked footage, it looks like Shulk has no/very little cooldown when switching Monado Arts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYBlbn-nNEM (Watch from about 1:05-1:23 to see what I mean)

[euklyd]

From the leaked footage, it looks like Shulk has no/very little cooldown when switching Monado Arts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYBlbn-nNEM (Watch from about 1:05-1:23 to see what I mean)

oh wow I forgot that footage existed

I wouldn't've expected him to be able to move while switching, wow

I mean it did take a non-insignificant amount of time to do, but it still seems...rather strong.

[Anacybele]

Looks like it takes a bit of time to find the art you're looking for though...

[Mighty Kamina]

Looks like it takes a bit of time to find the art you're looking for though...

The AI seemed to cycle through them pretty quickly, and I'd imagine a human player who has gotten used to cycling through arts (and is able to recognize the symbols quickly) would be able to do it even faster.

I wouldn't've expected him to be able to move while switching, wow

Yeah that does look kind of overpowered, especially since Shulk looks to have a decent movement speed even when not in speed mode.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Shulk

[Anacybele]

Sigh.. Sakurai, we do NOT want anymore Meta Knights. >.>

Anyway, responding to a post from another thread that really fits better in here:

If you compare them directly, it might be even enough that it's down to opinion and which one's speed you prefer.

But if you compare them for their own time, it's hard to defend Brawl over Melee. Melee made so many improvements to a formula that wasn't even really flawed to begin with and just did so much right. If Melee was a successor to 64, Brawl was more like an expansion to Melee; it didn't do as much to change things up, and the things it did weren't always for the better. It largely took what Melee already had and put more in, which isn't a problem in itself (if it ain't broke, don't fix it?), but it just made it "the next SSB" rather than something really fresh and amazing.

Not to say your opinion doesn't mean anything, but I think it's easier to gauge this kind of thing when you've been around since the beginning. If you start with the newest, it's a lot tougher to judge the old ones for how they were when they came out. That's why when I pick up a new series, I always try to start at the beginning, because going forward is a lot easier than going backward. That means that playing Brawl first will likely make 64 and Melee feel inferior when you first play them.

On my end, I first played SSB64 when I was something like 8 or 9 at a friend's house, and soon after my brother got it for his birthday and we played the hell out of it (back then and to this day we pretty much share our video games, so him getting it didn't mean it was "just his" or anything like that). We were late to the Gamecube party (parents didn't want us getting another console), but I had a different friend with the game and I went over to her house almost every day to play it for, literally, a couple years. And then I got a Gamecube, my own copy, and played it even more. Then I had a Wii at launch and Brawl was easy stuff to acquire.

But yeah, history lesson aside (lol, I didn't mean for it to turn out like that), 64 was like, "This game is great!" Melee was like, "HOLY WTFBALLZ THIS GAME IS LIKE HEAVEN!" and then Brawl was like, "This game is really good, but TRIPPING!"

Wait, shit, this isn't the main SSB4 topic, this is the Kirby topic, lol. Ana, if you respond to this, do it in the main SSB4 topic. I'd do it myself but I don't want to do it suddenly and cause any confusion.

I suppose this makes sense. I can't compare 64 to Melee since I didn't play the former, so I can't compare the jump from 64 to Melee to the jump from Melee to Brawl. But you're right, a major factor is the game speed. Melee was just too fast for me and I felt more comfortable with Brawl's slower speed. That's not to say I can't handle faster than Brawl though, so I'm glad SSB Wii U/3DS is an in between.

Fox in Melee isn't nearly as broken as Meta Knight.

Really? I've heard elsewhere that they're comparable.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Anacybele

[Sunwoo]

I don't care how OP Shulk looks, I'm using him anyway. My friends and I don't play competitively anyway

[Mighty Kamina]

Really? I've heard elsewhere that they're comparable.

I never played competitively in Melee so I'm not the best source for this, but while Fox is the best character in Melee he has a number of exploitable weaknesses and is hard to master. (vulnerable to chain grabs and his fall speed, while helping with his combo ability can make him vulnerable to combos as well) Meanwhile Meta Knight doesn't have those flaws, and isn't as difficult to get good with. There's a reason why Meta Knight has a tier all to himself, while Fox shares his tier with Falco, Sheik, and Marth.

I don't care how OP Shulk looks, I'm using him anyway. My friends and I don't play competitively anyway

Same. Shulk has been my most wanted character in Smash 4 since I first played Xenoblade back in 2011(I imported it, and then used Homebrew so I could run it on my NTSC Wii) , so I'll use him even if he is overpowered.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Shulk

[Loki Laufeyson]

I don't care how OP Shulk looks, I'm using him anyway. My friends and I don't play competitively anyway

This. I dont give a snot one way or the other. (the funny part is that im ass with playing as Meta Knight.) Shulk is likely to be my main until i get a real feel for the game.

[Florete]

I suppose this makes sense. I can't compare 64 to Melee since I didn't play the former, so I can't compare the jump from 64 to Melee to the jump from Melee to Brawl. But you're right, a major factor is the game speed. Melee was just too fast for me and I felt more comfortable with Brawl's slower speed. That's not to say I can't handle faster than Brawl though, so I'm glad SSB Wii U/3DS is an in between.

That makes sense. I recently played Melee again on emulator and, even though I played it plenty back in the day, I've been so used to Brawl lately and the increased speed kind of threw me off guard.

Really? I've heard elsewhere that they're comparable.

Not in comparison to other characters.

There is much more room at the top in Melee. If you ask a competitive player who the most powerful character in Brawl is, they'll say Meta Knight without a second thought, but that's not always the case with Melee. It's generally agreed to be Fox, but he doesn't dominate like Meta Knight does. I've never watched competitive Brawl (I would, but I never see it happening), but I watch competitive Melee a lot, and Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Jigglypuff, Peach and Ice Climbers are all pretty common to see. Captain Falcon is less common but I see him on occasion, as well (pretty much no one below C tier ever shows up, though). Anyone in S tier can usually take on Fox, but Meta Knight has no match-ups where he isn't at an advantage.

I'm only a spectator so I can't give a hands-on analysis, but I'm pretty certain the above is accurate.

[ClevelandSteve]

Looking at that tier list... I always thought Link was the most brutally nerfed character between Melee and Brawl (probably because I was a Link main in Melee but found him virtually unusable in Brawl), but Jigglypuff and Captain Falcon got hit HARD.

[Comet]

^Meta Knight and Pikachu go even

Well if the melee person isn't saying Fox is the best...lol. He has a godly neutral game once you get all the technical stuff down, which is what matters in this game. But, melee's mechanics make it tolerable, since a LOT of characters can 0-death or gimp him if they don't mess up (Pichu included lol). The only hard part is wrecking him before he wrecks you.

Meta Knight has godly neutral game, can 0-death a lot of the cast off the top with up airs to tornado, and is ridiculously hard to edgeguard (edit: this doesn't happen lol). His amazing recovery also makes planking nearly impossible to stop.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Comet

[IceBrand]

Can anyone else image Shulk with his trunks, and Zero Suit Samus in her casual cloths, online fighting it out on Delfino Plaza?

[Comet]

Oh, how exactly does Shulk's weapon stay on his back in his fanservice costume?