SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Ema Skye]

From what people are finding, Bayonetta's jab and grab are frame 9

Considering we don't actually have the character yet, let's refrain on figuring out frame data as we don't have much in terms of gameplay.

Way back at E3 when we had the demos at Best Buys, people were trying to get frame data off of the event and we had ridiculous stuff like Sheik's fair being frame 1. Just wait until Wednesday and we'll know the answer. I guarantee people are going to push Bayo's limits in the lab and so you shouldn't have to wait long.

[Jedi]

Considering we don't actually have the character yet, let's refrain on figuring out frame data as we don't have much in terms of gameplay.

Way back at E3 when we had the demos at Best Buys, people were trying to get frame data off of the event and we had ridiculous stuff like Sheik's fair being frame 1. Just wait until Wednesday and we'll know the answer. I guarantee people are going to push Bayo's limits in the lab and so you shouldn't have to wait long.

Fair enough, my apologies.

[scrub_Lord]

Considering we don't actually have the character yet, let's refrain on figuring out frame data as we don't have much in terms of gameplay.

Way back at E3 when we had the demos at Best Buys, people were trying to get frame data off of the event and we had ridiculous stuff like Sheik's fair being frame 1. Just wait until Wednesday and we'll know the answer. I guarantee people are going to push Bayo's limits in the lab and so you shouldn't have to wait long.

Didn't stop people from trying measure clouds frame data from his trailer. : P

I see no harm in people trying to figure out Cory's or Bayo's frame data.

EDIT I apologize if this post expressed any negative vibes.

Edited February 1, 2016 by scrub_Lord

[Ema Skye]

@Jedi: It's nothing to be sorry about. It's just important to not put the cart before the horse.

While I'm personally expecting Bayo to be high/top tier, I wouldn't be surprised if she fails to live up to the hype. We knew she'd have starting lag issues, but we also know her design philosophy is about exploiting holes in her opponent's defense and her design operates on the premise that once she's in, her starting lag doesn't matter because her opponent can't do anything to stop her. I'm willing to bet the entirety of her early meta is going to revolve around testing this theory.

For what it's worth, that 9-attack combo Sakurai pointed out in the direct has been calculated to do 54% and it's been shown that people can't do anything to stop her from performing it. If she's got lots of combos like this, I'm pretty sure she'll be fine tierwise. Combo-based characters have always had the advantage over combo-less characters in Smash.

[Jedi]

EDIT I apologize if this post expressed any negative vibes.

Nah you're fine!

@Jedi: It's nothing to be sorry about. It's just important to not put the cart before the horse.

While I'm personally expecting Bayo to be high/top tier, I wouldn't be surprised if she fails to live up to the hype. We knew she'd have starting lag issues, but we also know her design philosophy is about exploiting holes in her opponent's defense and her design operates on the premise that once she's in, her starting lag doesn't matter because her opponent can't do anything to stop her. I'm willing to bet the entirety of her early meta is going to revolve around testing this theory.

For what it's worth, that 9-attack combo Sakurai pointed out in the direct has been calculated to do 54% and it's been shown that people can't do anything to stop her from performing it. If she's got lots of combos like this, I'm pretty sure she'll be fine tierwise. Combo-based characters have always had the advantage over combo-less characters in Smash.

Yeah I get that too, I'm thinking she'll be pretty solid, I just think people are throwing Corrin under the bus in comparison way too soon considering their reach, fairly good aerial combo capabilities and movement options. Not to mention a paralyzing projectile.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Jedi

[Ema Skye]

Yeah, Corrin seems pretty solid. I've seen people compare him to Melee Marth.

I think people are just expecting so much from Bayo that they aren't bothering noticing Corrin. I was watching the events last night on r/smashbros and it actually took people a while to bring up Corrin while people were quick to jump on the "Bayonetta is broken" train (one guy called her pay to win DLC).

[scrub_Lord]

Yea, I don't really understand why everyone was/is so quick to dismiss corrin.

I really think corrin has a lot more interesting tools at his\her disposal compared to Bayo.

[Comet]

For what it's worth, that 9-attack combo Sakurai pointed out in the direct has been calculated to do 54% and it's been shown that people can't do anything to stop her from performing it. If she's got lots of combos like this, I'm pretty sure she'll be fine tierwise. Combo-based characters have always had the advantage over combo-less characters in Smash.

tell that to Melee Doctor Mario. Combos are nice, but a good neutral game is better. 54% isn't even that amazing compared to guys like sheik and peach who can touch death you.

[Ema Skye]

tell that to Melee Doctor Mario. Combos are nice, but a good neutral game is better. 54% isn't even that amazing compared to guys like sheik and peach who can touch death you.

Doc is the exception to the rule.

54% is pretty good considering she's not even out yet.

[Tolvir]

I really don't think Bayonetta will be broken. Cloud had the potential to be an extremely broken character in the game, but they really took their time and balanced him out before his release. To be honest I think that might of been why there was such a large delay between their announcement and release was because they knew both Corrin and Bayonetta had the potential to break the game, so they wanted to take their time and make sure they were balanced before release.

A lot of people are really overlooking Corrin due to Bayonetta. I was hoping to find some information from people examining his move set and everything, but everyone is just throwing him under the bus saying he looks mid tier, and then moving on to Bayonetta. I personally think Corrin is really going to surprise people due to this, maybe even come out as better than Bayonetta. Unfortunately I thought Smash Bros Reddit would of been a good place to look, but all that is there is the Competitive Smash Player Worship central.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Tolvir

[Dotty]

I really don't think Bayonetta will be broken. Cloud had the potential to be an extremely broken character in the game, but they really took their time and balanced him out before his release. To be honest I think that might of been why there was such a large delay between their announcement and release was because they knew both Corrin and Bayonetta had the potential to break the game, so they wanted to take their time and make sure they were balanced before release.

Honestly I think Cloud is pretty busted if only because he invalidates a large portion of the sword characters simply because he does what they want to do but better in every way and with a good projectile/limit break on top of it all.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Honestly I think Cloud is pretty busted if only because he invalidates a large portion of the sword characters simply because he does what they want to do but better in every way and with a good projectile/limit break on top of it all.

Link(s)?

[Dotty]

Link(s)?

Not so much with them, but they're moreso focused on using projectiles well anyway.

Mainly talking about Marcina especially, but also Roy and Shulk.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Well, idk about Shulk. He can recover, he can gimp, he can do the damage and get rid of you, he has mind games. While he's not one of the best swordies, he's more different.

[Dotty]

Cloud can recover surprisingly well since he has two aerial stall moves in neutralB and sideB, and can walljump too.

Also, doing sideB or LB neutral B just below the ledge completely ruins a lot of characters' recoveries.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Do a degree, Cloud's recovery is alright, but stages like battle field have nothing to wall jump on and it's dangerous since he has no ledge snap on Up-B w/out limit.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Great Geargia Gateway

[Knife]

Cloud UAir and Limit camping is dumb. Maybe his Dair being active for so long and autocancel windows too. Fix those and hes fair

[Elieson]

Honestly I think Cloud is pretty busted if only because he invalidates a large portion of the sword characters simply because he does what they want to do but better in every way and with a good projectile/limit break on top of it all.

Cloud's good because his Sword doesn't double as hit hurtbox, and covers massive reach at acceptable frame speeds

[Dotty]

I don't disagree.

Really can't wait for this DLC to come out. Interested in what characters will change too.

[Tsunami922]

I don't disagree.

Really can't wait for this DLC to come out. Interested in what characters will change too.

I'm hoping we get some buffs on the weaker characters. Even if they just buffed Palutena, that'd be fine.

[The DanMan]

Cloud's good because his Sword doesn't double as hit hurtbox, and covers massive reach at acceptable frame speeds

Wait... other character's swords do?

*teenaged noob*

Though seriously, it feels like what Cloud does do he does a bit too well. I wouldn't mind if they decided to all-round nerf him a bit in exchange for better ledgesnapping on his recovery. As is, he feels kind of like Little Mac with a sword.

I don't disagree.

Really can't wait for this DLC to come out. Interested in what characters will change too.

If Shiek gets a nerf that actually hurts her competitively, I'll be pleased enough.

[Elieson]

Wait... other character's swords do?

*teenaged noob*

Not like Ryu's super long Ftilt kick where his leg's a giant hurtbox

or DK's mega biceps

is what I mean

[The DanMan]

Not like Ryu's super long Ftilt kick where his leg's a giant hurtbox

or DK's mega biceps

is what I mean

Ah. Thought you were saying that in comparison to other sword users.

[Jedi]

Not so much with them, but they're moreso focused on using projectiles well anyway.

Mainly talking about Marcina especially, but also Roy and Shulk.

GGG, already addressed Shulk, but Roy has much better shield pressure and is more rush down than Cloud.

[Comet]

sheik has enough matchups that are 50/50 or near that, ao i'm not sure why you're particularly bothered about that. just buff the worse characters.

and smashboards is being hacked. maybe it's isis, since they attacked meleeitonme.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Comet