Is it for love, or perhaps something more?

[dekodomo]

That reminds me, in an interview between 8-4 (I think?) and some of the developers behind Awakening, the developers (who were all male) were asked who their favorite character was...and almost all of them said Tharja. I was left completely baffled.

I guess they didn't think too deeply about the implications of Tharja using her family as hexing guinea pigs, which is...pretty problematic.

[HeroMystic]

There is no good excuse for child abuse. EVER.

I agree with this, but can we define what Tharja has done to Noire that can be labeled as child abuse? Far as I know, the worst she has done is put curses on her that gave her runny noses at night.

[shadowofchaos]

I agree with this, but can we define what Tharja has done to Noire that can be labeled as child abuse? Far as I know, the worst she has done is put curses on her that gave her runny noses at night.

As a result of being a guinea pig for her mother's curses, she has developed a cowardly and negative personality. She may look delicate, but she's a completely different person when she snaps.

二つ心を持つ弓兵

"The archer with two hearts"

Second personality to deal with it and the bad future. If that's not evidence of child abuse, I don't know what is.

[Constable Reggie]

There is no good excuse for child abuse. EVER. It doesn't matter what sympathetic/empathetic reason she had, she still abused her daughter, before AND after the husband was killed. Noire is clearly scarred beyond repair from Tharja's abuse, with that demonic split personality. What makes it sickening is that the abuse is played for laughs. Like, "Oh, Tharja, you have the 'best body' in the army, so we can write off your abuse as comedy", like seriously, she is a horrible person.

What more could we possibly learn from Tharja other than what a selfish bitch she is? Her very few heartwarming moments with Noire do nothing to make Tharja seem like a good person. The the end of Noire's recruitment chapter, when Tharja finds out about the talisman. She doesn't seem appalled: she's impressed. "Ooh, the future me is good...and bad.Very bad." With a smile. It's like they thought they could disguise what a horrible woman AND mother Tharja is by making her a "sexy yandere" type so fanboys would ignore the abuse and focus on just her body. No amount of "depth" could fix Tharja's twisted character.

I never said that the child abuse had to be forgiven or shed in a good light, just that it can be further fleshed out in order to make Tharja a deeper character. Look at someone like Karel: he kills people with no remorse just for the sake of a challenge, including his own family. But he's further fleshed out in his support conversations, primarily Guy's and their A support. Just the implication that Karel will eventually kill Guy, his student, when he doesn't want to, leaves a huge impact for the character. In SoS, you can see the result of what he's gone through. Now imagine they did something like that for Tharja, instead of playing everything about her for laughs/fetish appeal. Tharja abusing her child after some catastrophic event (again, I'm thinking it's because of something Noire contributed to that results in the death of the father) is completely in character for someone like her, but there's now that touch of empathy to why she does it and it's understandable, instead of coming off as a psychotic jerk who abuses children because why not.

Terrible acts don't need to be forgiven in order to use them to the advantage of a well written character. To take such a blind view and write them off entirely, regardless of how well they're used by the writers, is foolish, to say the least.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[BrightBow]

Oh man, I remember that developer interview. *sigh*

Even though my impression of Awakening couldn't have been any lower (or so i thought), seeing everyone of them expressing their love for this particular shallow looking character in combination with the Facebook poll, made me consider that there might be some good writing to be found after all. That the book might be so much better then the really, really, really ugly cover.

So I read the script of her recruitment chapter... where she gets recruited despite making no effort to hide her evil nature. Okaaaayyyy...

Then I read her supports and... yeah, it wasn't much better.

She abuses people left and right and gets away with it. Except for marriage proposals, of course.

And she actually rapes Robin... *sigh*

Definitely the most disgusting thing in a game that I have ever witnessed.

I find it difficult to imagine that anyone working on Awakening could have worked on PoR-RD...

...except for whoever it was, who decided that a well written script was too much for their audience, resulting in the two scripts of RD.

The involvement of that person would explain sooo much about Awakenings writing.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if Tharja is nice to some people. She has no regrets and not the slightest bit of selfdoubt.

But just because she manages once or twice to go one single day without drowning a bag of kittens, she can somehow be forgiven?

That takes a bit more work, to say the least.

Edited June 22, 2013 by BrightBow

[Vashiane]

Oh man, I remember that developer interview. *sigh*

Even though my impression of Awakening couldn't have been any lower (or so i thought), seeing everyone of them expressing their love for this particular shallow looking character in combination with the Facebook poll, made me consider that there might be some good writing to be found after all. That the book might be so much better then the really, really, really ugly cover.

So I read the script of her recruitment chapter... where she gets recruited despite making no effort to hide her evil nature. Okaaaayyyy...

Then I read her supports and... yeah, it wasn't much better.

She abuses people left and right and gets away with it. Except for marriage proposals, of course.

And she actually rapes Robin... *sigh*

Definitely the most disgusting thing in a game that I have ever witnessed.

I find it difficult to imagine that anyone working on Awakening could have worked on PoR-RD...

...except for whoever it was, who decided that a well written script was too much for their audience, resulting in the two scripts of RD.

The involvement of that person would explain sooo much about Awakenings writing.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if Tharja is nice to some people.

She has no regrets and not the slightest bit of selfdoubt. But just because she manages once or twice to go one single day without drowning a bag of kittens, she can somehow be forgiven?

That takes a bit more work, to say the least.

... When...?

[Galenforcer]

Avatar x Tharja A support.

Although, everyone always implies everything as rape nowadays.

[BrightBow]

... When...?

A support with MU.

Where MU falls unconscious, It ends with her getting exited like a (evil) schoolgirl over how helpless s/he is.

Tharja: Aw, how sweet. He's sleeping. Sleeping and...helpless. Hee hee hee hee!

Avatar x Tharja A support.

Although, everyone always implies everything as rape nowadays.

Yeah, it's just someone being at the mercy of their chaotic evil, giggling yandere stalker. It's totally innocent and doesn't imply rape at all. *sigh*

Edited June 22, 2013 by BrightBow

[Vashiane]

Avatar x Tharja A support.

Although, everyone always implies everything as rape nowadays.

... Oh. I never saw it that way, I just thought Tharja got the idea but decided to leave him be. Because if she had... why the actual fuck would he marry her? I certainly wouldn't.

[ZemZem]

It's not rape if he didn't resist.

[BrightBow]

It's not rape if he didn't resist.

...while s/he was unconscious...?

[FrostyFireMage]

If Tharja is what modern society considers to be the height of feminine beauty and charm my faith in humanity will take a blow tantamount to a cannonball blast.

Seriously, if Tharja becomes the FE:A rep in the new Super Smash Bros games I'm going to boycott them.

...Well, not really. At least I'll have a new punching bag for Training Mode.

[ZemZem]

...while s/he was unconscious...?

Doesn't rape mean to engage in sexual intercourse with someone without their consent...oh, NOW I get it. My mistake. Robin was unconscious, so if Tharja really DID molest him/her, then that would be rape. My apologies.

Anyway, as creepy as Tharja is, I don't really think she would actively rape Robin.

[BrightBow]

Doesn't rape mean to engage in sexual intercourse with someone without their consent...oh, NOW I get it. My mistake. Robin was unconscious, so if Tharja really DID molest him/her, then that would be rape. My apologies.

Anyway, as creepy as Tharja is, I don't really think she would actively rape Robin.

She is very open about being a backstabber and abuses the people in the army. And even her own husband and daughter apparently

I would say that it is perfectly in line with her character.

Edited June 22, 2013 by BrightBow

[HeroMystic]

Not gonna get into the rape discussion.

二つ心を持つ弓兵

"The archer with two hearts"

Second personality to deal with it and the bad future. If that's not evidence of child abuse, I don't know what is.

Tharja

And that bizarre talisman?

Noire
Your own handiwork! Wrought to steel the mewling heart of your coward daughter! In its strength did I find blessed escape from grief and solitude! Fear of death and killing, too, it drove from me, until I became an avatar of retribution! Only by clinging to it have I survived the crushing desolation of a ruinated future! BWAAA HA HA HA HA!

The second personality was made by (Future) Tharja's talisman in order to get rid of her cowardly personality. Present Tharja changed that though.

I get that Tharja is a terrible mother, which is clear as day, but none of it ever screamed "child abuse" to me. Seems more like people are filling in holes with their own ideas and writing it off as fact.

Edited June 22, 2013 by HeroMystic

[Aquakat]

Not gonna get into the rape discussion.

The second personality was made by (Future) Tharja's talisman in order to get rid of her cowardly personality. Present Tharja changed that though.

I get that Tharja is a terrible mother, which is clear as day, but none of it ever screamed "child abuse" to me. Seems more like people are filling in holes with their own ideas and writing it off as fact.

I'm still confused as to the 'rape' part, but I personally think that's people's hatred of Tharja coming in as I never took it that way (and still don't, but maybe that's because my cynicism hasn't hit that level yet). That talisman implies that Tharja did try to help Noire, in her very twisted way. And while I think future!Tharja was abusive as all hell, I'm not too sure whether present!Tharja is, like the person above. Terrible mother, but maybe not abusive (but that's a fine line).

Still confused on how the topic got onto this, though. Wasn't this originally just about whether or not people choose their in-game spouse for looks or something more?

[Vashiane]

I'm still confused as to the 'rape' part, but I personally think that's people's hatred of Tharja coming in as I never took it that way (and still don't, but maybe that's because my cynicism hasn't hit that level yet). That talisman implies that Tharja did try to help Noire, in her very twisted way. And while I think future!Tharja was abusive as all hell, I'm not too sure whether present!Tharja is, like the person above. Terrible mother, but maybe not abusive (but that's a fine line).

Still confused on how the topic got onto this, though. Wasn't this originally just about whether or not people choose their in-game spouse for looks or something more?

Yup. Derailed topic is derailed.

[Acacia Sgt]

Well, since this is about judging characters, Tharja got brought up, and the rest is history.

[PKLucas531]

people got srs about their waifus

[Vashiane]

^ No kidding...

[Anacybele]

... Oh. I never saw it that way, I just thought Tharja got the idea but decided to leave him be. Because if she had... why the actual fuck would he marry her? I certainly wouldn't.

Would you tell your rape victim that you raped them while they were sleeping? Didn't think so. I don't think Avatar would've ever actually known. As for whether or not this alleged rape actually happened, it's never outright stated that it did, but Tharja's actions and obsession do imply that she did SOMETHING unnecessary to him/her, which I don't like.

Also, it's only rape if the victim never consented. And you can't consent if you're sleeping.

Talk about a derailed thread too. I'm done here. xP

Edited June 22, 2013 by Anacybele

[Vashiane]

Would you tell your rape victim that you raped them while they were sleeping? Didn't think so. I don't think Avatar would've ever actually known. As for whether or not this alleged rape actually happened, it's never outright stated that it did, but Tharja's actions and obsession do imply that she did SOMETHING unnecessary to him/her, which I don't like.

Also, it's only rape if the victim never consented. And you can't consent if you're sleeping.

Talk about a derailed thread too. I'm done here. xP

What I meant was, why would you want to be with someone if you suspected that they could have done something like that to you? The entire concept of Tharja's recuitment and budding friendship is built on this sort of trust that no one except the appointed villian would ever hurt you. That Tharja isn't capable of anything truly wrong, which of course, isn't at all true.

It's the only thing I don't like about idealistic heroes: they're so trusting. If someone told you that they could stab you in the back any time they wanted, would you seriously recruit that person into your army, let alone become friends with them, let alone marry them?

Noire aside, THAT is what initally discouraged me from Tharja - the rest are just additional selling points, really.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Vashiane

[Anacybele]

Yeah, that's a reason I think Chrom is too much of an idiot sometimes. Not my idea of a husband. He'd be a good friend, but beyond that, no. Sorry Chrom, but you'll never win Kelli's heart. She loves Frederick.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Anacybele

[Vashiane]

Yeah, that's a reason I think Chrom is too much of an idiot sometimes. Not my idea of a husband. He'd be a good friend, but beyond that, no. Sorry Chrom, but you'll never win Kelli's heart. She loves Frederick.

Chapter 21 is the only problem I have with Frederick... when he tells the Avatar that they have his full support and trust. That's sweet and all, but, um, shouldn't you be not trusting me again? I don't trust me. Why do you suddenly trust me now?

I mean, I understad we're at A support and I set things on fire for you, but c'mon...

Edited June 23, 2013 by Vashiane

[HeroMystic]

I'm still confused as to the 'rape' part, but I personally think that's people's hatred of Tharja coming in as I never took it that way (and still don't, but maybe that's because my cynicism hasn't hit that level yet). That talisman implies that Tharja did try to help Noire, in her very twisted way. And while I think future!Tharja was abusive as all hell, I'm not too sure whether present!Tharja is, like the person above. Terrible mother, but maybe not abusive (but that's a fine line).

Still confused on how the topic got onto this, though. Wasn't this originally just about whether or not people choose their in-game spouse for looks or something more?

The rape thing is usually brought up on youtube as a funny joke, but I'm also a person that never thought of it. Personally, I find the notion of her doing that at all to be rather repulsive, though I'm not gonna be blind and say people are wrong for thinking that way. I prefer to just think she locked Avatar in her room and tickled his feet all night.

But I do find it amusing that people are willing to bash Tharja for her behavior as a mom, yet not even glance at Cordelia's poor parenting skills towards Severa which made her develop an inferiority complex.