Which Lucina is better?

[Airship Canon]

I'd say, if anything, you only proved why Sumia's better for Lucina ingame.

Uh yeah, no. Turn Count Irrelevancies make Olivia!Lucina a broken goddess of annihilation. L30/30/1(DF) has Olivia in the 40s, and Lucina starts with crazy high stats, matched only by MU.

Boss Abuse doesn't work in Lunatic(+) which means Rescue Spam (which uses an actual resource, namely Gold) and Dance Spam (Completely free) are the only infinite EXP sources.

LTCs don't matter = IN GAME Olivia wins hands down, no questions asked.

If LTC matters, Sumia wins but only slightly.

Not really. Sumia provides better Pair Up bonuses for Chrom than Olivia does.

Both are Dark Fliers, Olivia with higher stats.

[Shadow Mir]

Uh yeah, no. Turn Count Irrelevancies make Olivia!Lucina a broken goddess of annihilation. L30/30/1(DF) has Olivia in the 40s, and Lucina starts with crazy high stats, matched only by MU.

Boss Abuse doesn't work in Lunatic(+) which means Rescue Spam (which uses an actual resource, namely Gold) and Dance Spam (Completely free) are the only infinite EXP sources.

LTCs don't matter = IN GAME Olivia wins hands down, no questions asked.

If LTC matters, Sumia wins but only slightly.

Both are Dark Fliers, Olivia with higher stats.

That's as sad and desperate an attempt at spin doctoring as you can get. I have nothing more to say to you. I mean, I don't care about turncounts, but I'm not about to burn like 1001 turns just so Olivia can LOOK like she's a good mother for Lucina.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[HK Motendra]

Why have a pretty good, but not 100% chance to live when I can avoid the chance of dying altogether?

Miracle is one of those skills I just slap on if there's room. Generally, I find it unreliable, even if it's a high percent because the risk of dying is too great compared to the risk of not ORKOing.

But with having Pavise along with it, it would be a last resort sort of thing, should Pavise not activate or fail to nullify enough damage. Yes, the best offense is a good defense, but with these skills together, the risk of dying is far smaller than just being strong enough to one hit KO, which isn't always the case (I once tried that with King Marth, and though he was one of my best, he wasn't invincible)

EDIT: then again, he didn't have swordfaire so that's probably what screwed him over in the few instances where he died

Edited July 11, 2013 by HeroKingMarth

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

If LTC matters, Sumia wins but only slightly.

Being the best character for the flier bias portion of the game is not slightly better than Olivia' >_>

Olivia's significant Dancer contribution is like, 1 turn off 13, 1 turn off 16, 1 turn off 21, and 1 Turn off 26

Meanwhile Sumia saves so much turn in.... the flier bias

Edited July 11, 2013 by I have a Dragon Boner

[Airship Canon]

That's as sad and desperate an attempt at spin doctoring as you can get. I have nothing more to say to you. I mean, I don't care about turncounts, but I'm not about to burn like 1001 turns just so Olivia can LOOK like she's a good mother for Lucina.

Well then, you can be wrong all day.

Simple fact is, unless Turn Counts matter for whatever reason, Olivia can gather more EXP than any other character in the game before Lucina's join chapter, and as such, can out do anyone (even MU) for bases on Lucina- and she is the -only- one who can do that, because she's the only dancer in the game.

[Shadow Mir]

Well then, you can be wrong all day.

Simple fact is, unless Turn Counts matter for whatever reason, Olivia can gather more EXP than any other character in the game before Lucina's join chapter, and as such, can out do anyone (even MU) for bases on Lucina- and she is the -only- one who can do that, because she's the only dancer in the game.

I'm not impressed. At all.

[ZemZem]

Olivia actually does grow pretty quickly.

Still, I'd rather have Sumia pass down Galeforce to Lucina than Olivia.

[Shadow Mir]

Also, honestly, compared to other games in the series, a dancer doesn't come off to me as all that useful in this game...

Edited July 11, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Sumia won't get GF at like 13

[ZemZem]

Sumia won't get GF at like 13

Neither will Olivia.

Sumia has a better chance, though.

[Rewjeo]

Well then, you can be wrong all day.

Simple fact is, unless Turn Counts matter for whatever reason, Olivia can gather more EXP than any other character in the game before Lucina's join chapter, and as such, can out do anyone (even MU) for bases on Lucina- and she is the -only- one who can do that, because she's the only dancer in the game.

My time matters, and I'll gladly be wrong and entertained all day than right and bored all day.

[Galenforcer]

Lucina getting Galeforce is completely unrealistic with anyone, even Sumia.

[shadowofchaos]

Well then, you can be wrong all day.

Simple fact is, unless Turn Counts matter for whatever reason, Olivia can gather more EXP than any other character in the game before Lucina's join chapter, and as such, can out do anyone (even MU) for bases on Lucina- and she is the -only- one who can do that, because she's the only dancer in the game.

As stated:

My time matters, and I'll gladly be wrong and entertained all day than right and bored all day.

Despite "having the ability to get more EXP than any of the other mothers before Lucina joins", you're still going with a min-maxing strategy here.

Unlike most people here, they're basing it off the assumption that they're not going to have the patience to just sit there for 237 turns to level 30 Olivia like we do. Olivia's bases to Lucina are horrible under the assumption of practicality of patience here.

Olivia has crappy bases. And I'm not going to deny that just because of my "reputation".

Edited July 11, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[N7 Dynames]

I'm all for having powerful characters but dancing for a few hours is the epitome of pointless. Don't take this the wrong way or anything but who on earth would waste their time doing that? Id rather just jump into EXPonetial Growth for 30 minutes or so with a bunch of other characters.

As for Inigo I've never actually bothered recruiting him, I might do an Olivia file for that (Though I love having a Cynthia with Aether).

Edited July 11, 2013 by N7 Dynames

[CT075]

i'm personally partial to olivia!lucina ever since i found out that olivia!lucina!morgan can marry inigo for CREEPY UNCLE INIGO

[shadowofchaos]

I'm all for having powerful characters but dancing for a few hours is the epitome of pointless. Don't take this the wrong way or anything but who on earth would waste their time doing that?

It's actually about 20 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bd2PzFRmdE

Edited July 11, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[N7 Dynames]

It's actually about 20 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bd2PzFRmdE

Alright thats not too bad actually. Still boring, but not outside of my patience limits.

[HeoandReo]

Speaking purely from an optimization perspective because I'm terrible at LTC-style stuff, I'd say that Sumia!Lucina produces the stronger individual Lucina, while Olivia!Lucina is stronger for the team overall. It's a very close race, though.

Comparing both parents, Lucina gets Pegasus Knight from both, which is the important part, but Sumia gives her General and Cleric, while Olivia just gives Myrmidon. Maybe Luck+4 if you really want that for some reason. The main difference is basically Pavise/Aegis and Tomefaire vs. Assassin and Vantage. Sumia also gives her arguably better stats, winning against Olivia with 1 skill and 2 speed. (Also 2 res, but that don't matter much) So on that front, Lucina can effectively work both as a physical unit, but also as a magical one as a Dark Flier or Galeforce Sage.

The second kid of each pairing is probably the more important factor to me for a Chrom pairing. For Inigo, Chrom is the only parent other than Avatar who gives him Luna, and enough speed to double most things if he wants to, although Luna is really the main thing he wants. Cynthia gets Pavise/Aegis completion and access to a great ending class in Paladin, along with the relevant skills to abuse it with. (Galeforce, Luna, Lancefaire) Out of the two, though, I'd say that Inigo benefits a little more, mostly because he really wants Luna, and the fact that he gets more speed out of it works even better for him, since Olivia only gives 1 speed to begin with. Cynthia does get a good physical class to work with, but she gets one from every dad anyway, meaning that the main reason I'd do it would be for Pavise/Aegis instead. (Fred also gives Paladin, and Gaius/Henry give Assassin) If you're using Cynthia as a support, other dads might be better, although I'd say that Henry is probably the best for her all-around.

So short version, it's really good Lucina + Cynthia with a good Inigo vs. a slightly worse Lucina but a slightly better Cynthia/Inigo, in my perspective. (EDIT: Well the damage has been done but to remove confusion, a slightly faster Inigo with Luna) The overall difference is probably too marginal to see, though.

Edited July 11, 2013 by HeoandReo

[Shadow Mir]

Speaking purely from an optimization perspective because I'm terrible at LTC-style stuff, I'd say that Sumia!Lucina produces the stronger individual Lucina, while Olivia!Lucina is stronger for the team overall. It's a very close race, though.

Comparing both parents, Lucina gets Pegasus Knight from both, which is the important part, but Sumia gives her General and Cleric, while Olivia just gives Myrmidon. Maybe Luck+4 if you really want that for some reason. The main difference is basically Pavise/Aegis and Tomefaire vs. Assassin and Vantage. Sumia also gives her arguably better stats, winning against Olivia with 1 skill and 2 speed. (Also 2 res, but that don't matter much) So on that front, Lucina can effectively work both as a physical unit, but also as a magical one as a Dark Flier or Galeforce Sage.

The second kid of each pairing is probably the more important factor to me for a Chrom pairing. For Inigo, Chrom is the only parent other than Avatar who gives him Luna, and enough speed to double most things if he wants to, although Luna is really the main thing he wants. Cynthia gets Pavise/Aegis completion and access to a great ending class in Paladin, along with the relevant skills to abuse it with. (Galeforce, Luna, Lancefaire) Out of the two, though, I'd say that Inigo benefits a little more, mostly because he really wants Luna, and the fact that he gets more speed out of it works even better for him, since Olivia only gives 1 speed to begin with. Cynthia does get a good physical class to work with, but she gets one from every dad anyway, meaning that the main reason I'd do it would be for Pavise/Aegis instead. (Fred also gives Paladin, and Gaius/Henry give Assassin) If you're using Cynthia as a support, other dads might be better, although I'd say that Henry is probably the best for her all-around.

So short version, it's really good Lucina + Cynthia with a good Inigo vs. a slightly worse Lucina but a slightly better Cynthia/Inigo, in my perspective. The overall difference is probably too marginal to see, though.

Okay... so is there a way to get a good Inigo without compromising Lucina's usability or marrying the avatar to Olivia?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

From purely min maxing perspective, anyone who gives Luna = good Inigo

Lucina really only need Galeforce, so she's never a problem

Other than that....

LEGEND!Inigo as a Bow Knight with Bowfaire and paired up with motherfucking LEGEND with his LEGENDARY support gives +10 ATK to Inigo. Also with Amrthrift, Inigo has effective 82 ATK, and can wield leif blade to get bullion

Edited July 11, 2013 by I have a Dragon Boner

[Shadow Mir]

It's actually about 20 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bd2PzFRmdE

Still boring, and Rey/Olivia is infinitely better anyways.

[HK Motendra]

Okay... so is there a way to get a good Inigo without compromising Lucina's usability or marrying the avatar to Olivia?

That's where Lon'qu comes in. Although, Lon'qu takes away from his defense and resistance, he makes up for it with unmatched skill and speed and can surpass, a Chrom!Inigo with a swordfaire/strength +2 combo.And to top it all off, Lon'qu!Inigo has access to all the breaker skills which will make him nearly untouchable

Edited July 11, 2013 by HeroKingMarth

[Djing]

Okay... so is there a way to get a good Inigo without compromising Lucina's usability or marrying the avatar to Olivia?

Stahl, Kellam, Frederick, Ricken, Anyone with Luna. None of them will be as fast, but you can just go Assassin.

[N7 Dynames]

That's where Lon'qu comes in. Although, Lon'qu takes away from his defense and resistance, he makes up for it with unmatched skill and speed and can surpass, a Chrom!Inigo with a swordfaire/strength +2 combo.And to top it all off, Lon'qu!Inigo has access to all the breaker skills which will make him nearly untouchable

I would like to point out that Lon'qu makes for a stunning Laurent, I use that pairing in most of my files.