Toonami Mafia: Game Over

[Prims]

It says you learn the series' budget. It does not say "you learn your target's series, and consequently, its budget". I don't believe you're telling the full truth since your part of your claim is reliant on interpretation of flavor.

This is why games that allow quoting role PMs are terrible, btw.

[BBM]

SK claim too stronk

I have no issues with just treating Snike as a Vig and directing his targets. The mafia will probably want to kill him themselves because otherwise they've got a Vig with at least two more shots to go. I don't think lynching him is necessary. And if the mafia don't kill him, he'll leave the game and you'll fulfill the condition to unlock your role anyways.

Sadly this means town no longer has too much killing power and it makes Shinori less likely to be scum.

##Unvote

I want to think for a bit longer before deciding on whom I want to lynch.

[Snike]

I can't really quote my results, but hey, last night I scanned SB and he is from the tenchi multi-series, with a budget of just over 400k

[BBM]

Prims, do you think that Snike is mafia faking ITP?

[Prims]

And if the mafia don't kill him, he'll leave the game and you'll fulfill the condition to unlock your role anyways.

Good point actually. w/e I guess we can afford to leave him alone, but if he survives after two more kills then we lynch him.

Due to how strong Bomb is, I don't think scum!Shinori is unreasonable, especially given that a 3-man scumteam in 15p is a little bit on the slim side and they can theoretically lose a member just by shooting the bomb.

[Prims]

Prims, do you think that Snike is mafia faking ITP?

Probably not. Worst case scenario is he's just a normal SK banking on us leaving him alive for 2 more shots, then winning in 4p kingmaker... except this is risky as hell if scum NKs or roleblocks him or a kill otherwise fails. So he's probably legit, the scan issue is just kind of fishy.

[Snike]

Good point actually. w/e I guess we can afford to leave him alone, but if he survives after two more kills then we lynch him.

Due to how strong Bomb is, I don't think scum!Shinori is unreasonable, especially given that a 3-man scumteam in 15p is a little bit on the slim side and they can theoretically lose a member just by shooting the bomb.

I'm alright with the risk of being lynched. I can't really do much other than scan tonight, so hopefully I can grab a ~300k reasonable target and then win by SB -> whoever that is. If not, oh well, this was probably my best shot at it after hitting virgin n1.

[BBM]

Bomb requires the mafia to actually attack the Bomb though, which is kind of ehh.

Another thing that I don't think makes sense from Scumnori perspective that I just realized is that shooting someone he knows is town basically just narrows it down to a pool of 5 rather than a pool of 6 for the lynch, and that's not really a good idea for mafia.

Meh idk anymore

[Snike]

going to go dunk some ppl

bbl

[charlie_]

Been busy with other stuff tonight, sorry. Assuming I'm meant to be claiming now. (why is eli too lazy to fix the picture in my role pm)

Dear Essbee, you represent

Tenchi Muyo MultiSeries: Persuader

Curiosity killed the cat. Lucky for me, I'm not a cat!

Since much the series follows the Space Pirate Ryoko, you may use her incredible love for Tenchi as a motivation to persuade threatening ladies to seek other men. During the night, you may respond to your RolePM with "Night X: [uSER1], I heard Tenchi's best friend, [uSER-X] is available. You should go see him!" where [uSER1] and [uSER-X] represent different living players besides yourself. [uSER1] will be forced to vote for [uSER-X] for the following day phase. He will be aware that it is against his will, but he will not be able to change/unvote his vote.

You are allied with the Absolution (Town). You win when all threats to the Absolution (Town) have been eliminated.

Idled N0, Persuaded Nags to Manix N1. Got a success but well, Manix died. lol

Scumnori actually makes a lot of sense tbh. Mafia already have to tread lightly with nightkills because of the bomb and the virgin, along with any protective role, so them having a dayvig shot isn't exactly unbalanced, especially if it's a 3p scumteam

seems to be shinori/j00/prims atm. Nags is prolly legit town if he's safeguard (can be proven tonight, I guess), prims' claim looks pretty weird to me (like, do we really need more protection, and backup [not really but eh] is kind of shaky.) Not sure what to think on j00 but poe suggests it.

[Naglfar]

j00, with BBM's plan it doesn't matter who's voting and who isn't, what matters is how we split up the pairs :/

Something else about Shinori that bugs me (although this isn't part of my read on him) is where Nags says that we should lynch him because he's essentially a hated vanilla that's detrimental in XYLO, thats not why we lynch people, we lynch them because they're scummy. This seems kind of like him distancing himself from the Shinori lynch, especially since he hasn't said anything about Shinori reads-wise beforehand. He still has an excuse to hop on it though, but if Shinori flips town (unlikely, imo) he can back off and say he was only suspicious on him on the grounds of his role.

okay are you even trying. you ignore literally all of my plan except for the shinori lynch part, which makes much less sense without context (but still plenty). also, this distancing thing again? it sort of made sense back with neko's claim, but this is asinine. like, not only is my suspicion of shinori not a factor in my plan, it wouldn't even be hard to catch me with my own plan in the case of town!shinori and scum!me. of course, if you won't even read my posts, I guess I can't count on you to contribute voting setups or questions.

Out of the potential scum I'm inclined to say it's Shinori - SB - Nags. Agree with BBM on Naglfar and don't like how he's trying to solve this via roles instead of just lynching people for being scum. Looks like a desperate plan to keep the lynch off him imo. Also, targeting Bard N1 makes more sense for a mafia safeguard than a town safeguard who didn't think consider the cop might be the NK target.

you too. read my claim again, that's not why N1 went the way it did. ignoring that BBM is also trying, just not very hard, to solve the game with roles, it would be great if you didn't just say "no that's bad". pretty sure you're better than this. re: desperate plan to keep the lynch off me: I was the first to come out and pretty much demand that we use kirsche's role like this and I'm the one putting all the ideas forward. this is a fucking horrible move for any mafia that wants to win. I've also pointed out how my own plans aren't even a free pass for me already.

these two posts are really off. blatant misrepresentation of what I've said, and cutting corners in logic to come up with reasons not to trust me. this is pretty much exactly how I expected the mafia to attack me.

anywaaaaaay, we're in danger of being stuck with no time to implement anything but BBM's cop-out plan, but I've thought of just the thing. fuck my old plan, you don't even have to pretend to trust me. here:

first, we need everyone who isn't one of the five suspects to unvote. after that, shinori and I (this is my recommended setup, but anything will do) vote each other, one other suspect votes me, and the remaining two vote shinori, resulting in a 3-2 lynch. the question is: how many scum players had their votes on a town player at the end of D2? let's look at what we could find out here.

shinori flips town, answer is zero: that would mean three clears. impossible.

shinori flips town, answer is one: again, two townies on a lynched townie's wagon is impossible here.

shinori flips town, answer is two: this one's complicated. one dead townie. one townie on shinori's wagon, because there are two scum there. so the last scum has nowhere to be except on my wagon... but if I were town, that would blip the sensor too. myself and the guy on my wagon are confirmed scum and you have a 1v1.

shinori flips town, answer is three: shinori's entire wagon is scum lol.

shinori flips scum, answer is zero: if I were town, shinori's vote on me would be counted in the answer. you catch two scum, and have three suspects for one more.

shinori flips scum, answer is one: as I said, a nonzero answer means I'm town. with shinori confirmed as that one scum, the other player voting me is cleared as well, incriminating the remaining two scum who have nowhere left to be but on shinori's wagon.

shinori flips scum, answer is two: so I'm town again, and both people voting me aren't. you have two caught scum and a 1v1 between the other two guys.

shinori flips scum, answer is three: impossible with only two players voting me.

this is better than BBM's plan because we have no chance of ending up in the awkward situation of only lynching one scum and having two 1v1s (a thing you'd better believe the mafia will bust their asses to make happen), we do have a chance of finding all three at once if the guy we lynch flips town, and the worst thing that can happen will only happen if shinori and I are both scum, which still results in two scum being found. also to people who think I'm trying to hide from a lynch, you may have noticed that this plan will reveal my alignment no matter how it turns out. now, for god's sake, can we please get started?

• If at the end of any day phase, the number of people not voting at phase end exceeds the majority vote, OR at least one-third of the game, rounded DOWN has not voted, the game will end with a universal loss. If you're gonna sign up, you'd best be arsed to play the game.

just, uh, this here. @hosts: considering the point of this rule and the nature of the circumstances, can we have it not apply for the time being? if we can't for some reason I guess we can just have players not involved in the plan vote themselves so we can stay above the threshold without the extra votes affecting the results.

aaaand people are claiming wow time to read

[Naglfar]

LOL? So according to this you feel I am more town than scum. At least that's what it sounds like yet you'd just rather lynch me than go after someone else that's scum. Which just screams you want to lynch me for being town. You say you are basically knowing that you are mislynching me. When scum on the NNR wagon is obviously a lot easier to find if you take me out of the equation.since three people on the wagon are scum. That just seems terrible.

Also I'm not gonna lie I'm really lost.

##Vote: Naglfar

gj reading comprehension bro. btw leave your vote right there.

so assuming snike winning doesn't mean we lose I'm happy to let him do whatever for the time being, especially since he just cleared like five people.

[BBM]

seems to be shinori/j00/prims atm. Nags is prolly legit town if he's safeguard (can be proven tonight, I guess), prims' claim looks pretty weird to me (like, do we really need more protection, and backup [not really but eh] is kind of shaky.) Not sure what to think on j00 but poe suggests it.

From what I gathered, the "protection" in Prims's PM was more wrt flavour than an actual protective role. It also says that these abilities are unique to him, so idk where you're getting backup from?

And bleh I forgot about the minimum votes rule. I guess we could come up with some system of voting where everyone else only has one vote but that seems iffy because scum can switch over last second and screw up the lynch.

[Sunwoo]

Isn't someone in charge supposed to make an announcement when a player's been subbed in?

Anyway, I'm subbing in for Xinnidy. I've been following the game as best I could in my situation. Apparently you guys have a plan or something that you're trying to pull off right now?

[Paperblade]

Oh.

Boron has subbed in for Xinnidy.

[Elieson]

Oh.

Boron has subbed in for Xinnidy.

This.

[BBM]

lol

Well we have a Question Asker who can ask how many scum were on the wagon of the lynchee. Kirsche said that three people voting NNR yesterday were mafia. Five of them are still alive. Our plan was for exactly two of them to vote the person out of those five we want to lynch, and have nobody else vote, but that wasn't taking the minimum vote rule into account so idk anymore.

Something I just thought- the entire mafia piling onto NNR makes a lot more sense if the counterwagon was scum. This makes me more confident that Nags is mafia. Nags, SB, and Prims/j00/Shinori IMO.

[Sunwoo]

Apparently I'm so awesome that I needed three introductions or something.

lol

Well we have a Question Asker who can ask how many scum were on the wagon of the lynchee. Kirsche said that three people voting NNR yesterday were mafia. Five of them are still alive. Our plan was for exactly two of them to vote the person out of those five we want to lynch, and have nobody else vote, but that wasn't taking the minimum vote rule into account so idk anymore.

Something I just thought- the entire mafia piling onto NNR makes a lot more sense if the counterwagon was scum. This makes me more confident that Nags is mafia. Nags, SB, and Prims/j00/Shinori IMO.

If you guys want to continue to go with the plan you just mentioned, have you guys considered having people who you don't want voting each put one vote down on someone outside of the five? Like ... for example, I put a vote on you and you put a vote on Snike and Snike puts a vote on me and that'll cancel out the minimum vote rule?

[BBM]

I considered that, but it gives the person being voted the ability to vote someone with 1 vote already on them at the last second to tie the wagons and create a no lynch.

[Sunwoo]

Ah, that's a good point. So at this point do you guys have another plan or are we just gonna go "fuck it" and vote whoever we think is the scummiest or what? If the deadline in the topic is correct then we have less than a day and I for one am not sure if I'll be around at phase end.

[Snike]

Definitely not going to be around for phase end.

I'd prefer to vig SB on N3, given that that only leaves about 300k left on my wincon if I shoot him. But I digress.

[BBM]

Meh, I guess we should just lynch whomever we think is scummiest, and Kirsche can just ask for the amount of scum on today's wagon and we can cross-reference with the NNR wagon.

##Vote: Naglfar

I guess there could be other restrictions to the SG, like number of uses or something. I don't like how he treated Kirsche's claim, and his game plan for today seems to be to just get someone other than him lynched. His statements earlier like "town is fucked if I am scum" make me feel really uncomfortable, even if he took that back. And the entire scumteam piling on NNR makes the most sense if the counterwagon was scum.

[scorri]

Hmm, ok, that answers my question.

That being said, wouldn't mind terribly Snike shooting SB on N3 since he's one of five likely scum.

As for votes, why not this:

Lynch one of these five people: prims, j00, Naglfar, SB, Shinori.

Of the remaining four, have three of them on the wagon along with, say, kirsche since we're trusting him to be town at this point.

Then ask how many scum were on that wagon.

Have everyone else vote where ever to make sure that we don't end in UL.

-If we hit town:

If the number is three, we have confirmed three scum.

If it's two, then we have one confirmed scum and can move on from there.

If it's one or zero, something has gone wrong.

-If we hit scum:

If the number is two, we have 2/3 shot of hitting right.

If the number is one, we have 1 confirmed scum.

If it's zero, something has gone wrong.

Also, I agree that all the mafia jumping onto the wagon makes more sense if Nag's was scum, otherwise it'd make more sense to spread things out a bit more. That combined with *other things* has made me think that I was a bit too hasty in dropping my scum read on him and would prefer him to probably be the lynch target.

Oh, one thing. SB: your role. Does it deactivate in *LYO?

[BBM]

Kirsche, can you ask if a specific role exists in the game? This doesn't technically ask about a specific player's role.

[Zkirsche]

Yes but I won't get the chance because I'm too busy being a sensor.

Also I don't need to ask about the biggest wagon, I can ask about any of the wagons. That's why I wanted two people to vote me and everyone else to vote Shinori and I'd see if the two people voting me were scum.