Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 3 - NOW IT'S REIN TIME (Game over)

[scorri]

BBM: And if Psych had just said that I probably would have dropped my vote on him and looked elsewhere. Instead, he tosses an OMGUS vote on me and doesn't say anything about that quote.

[BBM]

I wasn't really liking Psych's content either, but I think he's justified in voting someone for voting him due to the "scumslip". It's honestly such a minor thing that going after it is kind of graspy IMO.

[scorri]

BBM: His vote was literally a "NO U"

[Shinori]

I feel like scorri's validation of bizz's wagon moving quickly is an attempt at throwing heat away from bizz, since it only had 3 votes and wasn't actually moving quickly at all. She then jumps to another wagon, one that's more likely to mislynch town, mine.

I mean i'm easier to get lynched than some others, even if i don't have many votes on me atm.

and yes scorri that is hypocritical for you so i am curious why you did it

##Unvote, Vote scorri

i'm also curious why bizz posted in #215 about wombat being a hypocrite but totally ignores scorri

honestly, leo just seems to love shit posting a bunch of rapid walls of text in a row hoping to make points in defense to things. i'm a bit concerned about his level of defensiveness vs offensiveness since he seems like he's just trying to save his hide and then turn any arguements on his attackers, like eli

honestly this is just stupid here and i don't really know why A) you'd tell us this due to not getting a joke and b) why not getting a joke makes you scummy since i'm pretty sure everyone will at one point misinterpret things

i'm getting strong town reads from SB

What in the actual fuck happened to your read on me? No seriously.

Also why is everyone ignoring psych? I really think he scum slipped. "Not catching scum at all." means you know who the scum would be. and I seriously think that deserves to be questioned. Also your entire read on me seems to have vanished by this post. Like lol? You go form voting me to just randomly dropping it and OMGUSing Scorri.

[Psych]

okay for that to be a scum slip implies scorri is my scum mate so gg

I said that in reference to him covering his ass rather than questioning and prodding people

and is again trying to turn something away from himself

honestly scorri just seemed like she was lurking but i'm still concerned with her hypocrisy there but shinori seriously your "not getting a joke" and all sorts of stuff is just not making you look good man

i had stopped with you because i hadn't noticed any posts recently that stuck out and scorri/bizz/mainly wombat who was like a third of each page caught my attention more

[eclipse]

Paperblade, hope things go well on your end. Everyone else, I'd love to make "having a shitty day" be a moddable offense, and enforceable outside of SF, but I'm not that powerful. Instead, here's my wishes that you all have great days for the rest of the year~!

Psych. Words. Nitpicking. Yeah, that's going to go over well. I'm not a huge fan of scumhunting by semantics, and think that using that as a case focus is lazy. Thus, I think scorri is slightly scummy for trying to shove a case on Psych because of it. Speaking of, I'm not particularly inclined to vote him - I can follow his train of thought, and it's not screaming scum to me.

Back to quote spamming!

It feels to me like SB is not reading everything and that this has resulted in him misrepresenting things that I have said and Shinori's joke. I'm not sure if it's evidence of an anti-town alignment, but it's definitely anti-town in effect and because of that, SB is now on my suspect list.

Also looking at that Elie post that Kirsche quotes again, I don't understand how pushing a lynch equates to misrepping at all. You can push a lynch as town too.

That. . .word. . .again. . .sword. . .hand. . .twitches. . .

Bizz, first you posted this about kirsche, then this. Can these two thoughts exist in the same plane, or did you change your mind about him?

I see Naggy's newest post. . .and he jumps right on the kirsche wagon after saying something about kirsche's drunk post. I think that kirsche in his current state is an extremely easy vote - he's got sparse and questionable content. In other words, I think the latecomers to his wagon are more likely to be scum. Ergo, my vote is staying put. I may not think kirsche is 100% town, but I think he should sober up before trying to play again, because being drunk is a null tell.

[Naglfar]

It makes me uncomfortable when people change their minds in the middle of their post, even when they admit it. This isn't realtime mafia. If your opinions change in the middle of writing the post, you can just take out the parts you changed your mind on. Keeping it in just to completely change tracks is unnecessary and just inflates your post. That was wrt Nag's last post.

it's not like my post is entirely unedited, what with the whole section about the recent kirsche votes that I cut out because it mostly boiled down to "well I guess these aren't too bad after all" and I identified it as not being worth reading. I do try to keep my posts bloat-free, you know. stream of consciousness is just how I naturally write, so sorry if it's not perfect to you, but you're asking me to change my playstyle over what's at most a minor issue. where did I change my mind mid-post, anyway?

now that I think about it, psych's reaction to the scumslip accusation was pretty interesting, coming from a guy who himself said that it's hard to get reactions out of him. someone who knows psych's meta better than I do should think about why he made such a big deal out of it.

[scorri]

Again. I votes Psych partially because I thought the wording of his statement was off and partially because I wanted to see his answer since he hadn't responded to Shinori again. If he had just said "Oh, yeah, here's what I meant" I would have dropped it right away and looked somewhere else. Instead, he completely just went OMGUS and voted me. Also, is there a reason that when I poke at him for that I'm super scummy, but when Shinori does it everyone just ignores it? Just curious.

[Percivalé]

Bizz, first you posted this about kirsche, then this. Can these two thoughts exist in the same plane, or did you change your mind about him?

Something I've noticed is after I write my observations down, I start seeing things totally differently. I reread Kevin's posts for example and he mentioned first being at a funeral and then being drunk, so even though I haven't been a fan of his behavior this game I'm not sure if it might be because he's in a bad mental state that's causing his laziness. So you can say I changed my mind, yes.

[Elieson]

K i'm home from a sick double. Reading up now, and kids are sleeping so I'm locked to my PC for a while.

[scorri]

Voted*

Also Psych, I already said this, but I didn't say that your low content was scummy. I said that the lack of actual value to what you had said was scummy.

Like...

-RVS

-Vote on Shinori for his posts being crap and because he wasn't finding scum. Also some stuff connecting Bizz and Elie without a flip.

-Incorrectly calling Shinori's action an OMGUS

-Claiming you don't respond to pressure and asking someone to clarify what a thing meant

-Talking about Bizz's gender

At this point I vote you. Out of your five posts, only one of them had reads in it. Those reads were "Elie/Bizz probs scum buddies, Elie's acting all town leadery, that's weird, but I'mma vote Shinori cause his posts are crap."

You didn't really ever explain why you found those three people scummy beyond like "lol his posts are crap and those two are trying to make each other look super pro-town"

That's what I was calling scummy, not the lack of posts. If I was going for lack of posts I'd be going for like... Snike or someone.

[Ether]

Ugh, I suppose I need to post something eventually, but I still don't have anything to say... uhh, hi guys, I guess? I'm still not following any of these wagons or reasoning or anything... day starts really need to not be a thing, I can't work in a vacuum... not that I accomplish anything outside of a vacuum but still...

Remind me why I bother to try, again? The game is about crazy interlocking interactions between people now, and I couldn't read a person if they stamped their exact thoughts and emotions onto their forehead.

[Naglfar]

I see Naggy's newest post. . .and he jumps right on the kirsche wagon after saying something about kirsche's drunk post. I think that kirsche in his current state is an extremely easy vote - he's got sparse and questionable content. In other words, I think the latecomers to his wagon are more likely to be scum. Ergo, my vote is staying put. I may not think kirsche is 100% town, but I think he should sober up before trying to play again, because being drunk is a null tell.

clipsey, I'd feel better if you didn't misrep a vote I literally just made. that aside, I agree that kirsche isn't exactly the most difficult of lynches to get to at the moment, but I arrived at him through wagon analysis, as I hope you can see. the logic of "kirsche looks like an easy mislynch => make up a reason to vote kirsche" doesn't work without evidence that voting him was the plan all along.

[BBM]

Shinori, again, I see "You're not catching scum" as "You're not scumhunting well". It's not well worded on Psych's part but it's sort of a dumb thing to base a case on.

@Naglfar- Sorry if it came off as me telling you to change your playstyle. That wasn't my intention. It just looked like at least a paragraph, where you talked about how you originally thought the votes on Kirsche for a post made when he was drunk were bad, and then changed your mind to think that the votes were actually good, could have been cut out.

I would like you to explain what you mean by Psych's reaction is interesting. Do you think his reaction is scummy? I sort of dislike how you just kind of point at this and tell other people to look at it for you. Meta can be good to back something up, but if you treated everyone as you treat Psych's reaction here, you wouldn't be able to push a case against most of the game, since you've played only a few games with most of the current community.

Also upon looking at Scorri and Shinori's Psych votes again, I think Scorri's is better. She uses the supposed scumslip too, but she has other stuff to her case, while Shinori's entire case really does hinge almost entirely on that.

[scorri]

BBM: And yet you continue to ignore the fact that Psych blatently OMGUS'd me. It was literally "Oh, you're voting me for X reason (which isn't even the correct reason for why I was voting him)? Then I'll just vote you for the same thing! What now?"

[BBM]

I just admitted that

Also upon looking at Scorri and Shinori's Psych votes again, I think Scorri's is better. She uses the supposed scumslip too, but she has other stuff to her case, while Shinori's entire case really does hinge almost entirely on that.

[scorri]

No but you don't talk about Psych's vote. You look at Shinori's and mine, but you ignore his vote.

[Helios]

@Psych: Tbh, it still looks to me that you're only voting scorri because she voted you. Had she voted for someone like Shin or something for not posting much content, I don't think you'd complain. I'm not really sure why you jumped from Shinori to Scorri for weak reasoning like this. Weak scumread here.

@Scorri: I still think your vote on Psych was pretty meh, and because lolPsych you look like you have a reason to conveniently keep your vote there, instead of voting for other players who imo have better cases than him (Shinori, Kirsche, Nags, even Shin). In fact, apart from Psych, you haven't commented on anyone else in the game, or any of the other things that have happened in the game up to this point. I also don't like the fact that you stated "had Psych said 'this' instead of what he said, I wouldn't have voted for him". Gives me a weird vibe. Weak scumread here too.

I agree with Eclipse that Nags is taking the opportunistic route in jumping on the kirsche wagon for his latest post. I do however think that Nags brings up a good point about Shin's terrible vote on Bizz (that I completely forgot about because I forgot Shin was even in this game up until now).

Shinori's latest post actually makes him look worse to me imo because it looks like a weak attempt to bring attention to a really minor point that no one but scorri actually thinks is a scumslip.

[Helios]

Also Ether you should post some content or something one of these days since there's actually quite a bit of stuff to work with here

[eclipse]

clipsey, I'd feel better if you didn't misrep a vote I literally just made. that aside, I agree that kirsche isn't exactly the most difficult of lynches to get to at the moment, but I arrived at him through wagon analysis, as I hope you can see. the logic of "kirsche looks like an easy mislynch => make up a reason to vote kirsche" doesn't work without evidence that voting him was the plan all along.

YOU ARE THE THIRD PERSON TO USE THAT WORD. CAN I RETCON THIS GAME AND GIVE MYSELF A TRIPLE DAYVIG? Sorry, that's a pet peeve of mine.

You're analyzing a three-vote "wagon" (I hesitate to call it such, seeing as there was very little discussion generated about Bizz because of it), with the vote in question being the second post made by said user. Thus, I can't really see this as a serious attempt to scumhunt. Furthermore, kirsche is an extremely easy target, and the fact that you chose this, out of everything else to pick on makes me think that you're trying to push an easy case, hence why my vote is where it is.

BBM: Shinori also mentions Psych's suspicion drop, but eh. . .I can understand why Psych dropped it. I don't think I'd support a Psych lynch right now.

[BBM]

Oh, I misread your post Scorri. I think Psych's vote for you was bad because it said you were scum for switching onto a wagon that was more likely to mislynch town, which assumes you know who the town are, which is sort of circular logic. I don't really think it was an OMGUS though.

Shinori mentions the suspicion drop, but the way the blurb there is structured gave me the impression the vote was more wrt the "scumslip", and his latest post saying "GUYS THE SCUMSLIP" just reinforces that.

Eclipse brings up a good point about the Bizz wagon, something I'd pointed out earlier but forgotten. 2/3 votes on it were RVS, so it wasn't even a real wagon. Picking the only serious vote out of the "wagon" on her is not really wagon analysis.

[scorri]

Helios: There's a difference between saying "If he'd said this I wouldn't have voted him" and saying "I voted him to get an answer and if he'd answered explaining himself I would have accepted it an moved on. Instead he did something that was even scummier, so I kept my vote there." One of those is what I said and one of those is a vast oversimplification of what I said.

[Elieson]

Goign way back, I can't find the quote, but I remember Wombat saying something about me being good at being scum, when I was scum with him in CMV, and we all know how that went; I skimmed by D1/2, claimed ITP weak watcher midgame and died a horrible death, so I dunno how my play from another game has any possible reflection on me in this game, especially when it was almost a year ago.

I don't think I've been taking that tone with you but I'll try to watch it.

Also, the thing about RVS wasn't RP but it was a bit of a joke. I do believe that RVS is counterproductive, but I don't take a hard line against it at all. I've tried it before and no one agrees. So instead, I just play the game the way I think it should be played. Hence the bit about "leading by example." I was trying to crack fun at how I was trying to be town leader. Sorry if it just came off as me being a douche.

@Bolded: So when I try to do that (since I share a similar belief), I'm scummy, but when you do it, it's fine? Uhhhhh this is where I like to take Manix's "Pot, meet Kettle" argument and hand it to you politely, since shoving it in your face means you're just gonna ignore it.

@Underlined: You kind of did, but that's neither here nor there.

Dear elieson, why did you only ask scorri if she wanted spend the night with you? It is highly inconsistent and specific when I consider all your other posts. Also what was the logic behind your "hidden exposition" plan? There seems to be none.

Dear BBM, why do you try to attack elieson for trying to get out of RVS? Why would you, as a town, find this disagreeable? Now that I'm on topic of you, why did you make the assumption that 7 antitown = 7 maf?

SB gets negative points for the "elieson is likely to be town if the hidden ends up being maf" thing, and the people who voted him because he didn't get a joke get more negative points. I'm looking at you, shinori and levity. Also curious to find out who you thought was more worthy of having a vote, and why you ended up voting SB shortly after.

Still not liking the votes on wombat, but elieson is lynch-worthy in my opinion, mostly because of the way he is responding to wombat; with rhetoric. Kirsche is also being considered for a noose right now, my reasons for this are summed up well by above posters. I'd also be down for lynching SB with the vote threat and vote on wombat and all.

Right now I'm not inclined to lynch shinori or levity, I find SB threatening to vote shinori over not getting things enough to warrant a vote.

Finally I'd like the following inactive scum to become active: shin, ether, Helios, naglfar, rein, shin and scorri.

Its probable I missed something, which could completely invalidate my vote, so please notify me if I did.

##vote: elieson for now

Because since not everyone had posted, and Paperblade was around, I figured that if we spent the first little bit of D1 doing something that might prove productive, we may as well do so. IMO, the time was spent well because we figured out to not bother working with a Hidden hunt before the majority of the game was present, therefore giving the majority of the players something to not have to waste time thinking about.

@Underlined: So I'm your leading scumread because of ?Rhetoric? IMO that's a pretty weak reason to scumhunt PERIOD, so I'm not sure why you're ignoring your actual cases on other people and pursuing a vote on me for what seems like personal reasons/interpretations of "attitude".

Really finding this to be scummy, bro.

I lost a post twice now, so fuck. I'll make this short.

Okay, I don't like this at all. Not all reactions are good reactions, you're treating this like it was an ultra good thing and it wasn't. "Not sure if it was that bad of an idea" reads as noncommittal to me too. And what's up with the first part? The implication in it really bothers me.

Want Excellen to elaborate quite a bit. Okay, so you don't like any of the current big wagons- why not? I want to see more about this from you. Your post didn't have many opinions in it.

Also not a fan of Snike's post. Yeah I get that losing posts suck but his logic for voting kirsche seems poor. I don't think kirsche is supertown but jumping on someone for that seems like it's just a convenient thing to do. Yeah I get that he didn't have tome for content but I still think it's suspect.

@Bolded: It was an ultra good thing for me, as I helped move shit out of RVS, and learned that Wombat is either RP'ing Shinori or just flips his lid every 4 or so posts, which is weird, and generates discussion.

@Underlined: So why aren't you a fan of Snike's post when you didn't even change your vote in this post to whoever you felt was actually scummy? Pot, Kettle, we meet again.

Someone seeming to jump on something but not actually jump on it? Attacking me for something but not actually voting me.

7 hours into the game and can't be lazy? Are you serious? So you're saying if I was playing like how I played in that one anony mafia where I was vigged as Kureneko that wouldn't be called lazy? Cause I'm pretty sure I Was lazy as FUCK in those games. Not because I wasn't posting much but simply because I wasn't reading shit. So my vote worthy case is cause I called someone out who was obviously serious about attacking me for a post where I just said TO BE FRANK TO BE FRANK FRANKLY WHAT a lot.

FTR I wasn't really paying an ounce's worth of attention in Anonydraft due to a mix of connection issues, real life and falling so far behind that I simply couldn't keep up until I was literally being lynched, so why the ever living fuck are you bringing self-meta into this? It's a fucking horrible defense and you should feel bad for using it because it does nothing but make you unable to come up with a legit defense for doing something scummy. And 7 hours into game was like what, 3 pages? How hard is it to read 3 pages of super short one-liner posts? I voted you because you called someone's case lazy that realistically doesn't come across as lazy and comes across as an overreaction to a misinterpretation.

You literally have to try to not read in order to be "lazy" because jack shit had happened so there's like nothing demanding actual thought.

RAGE I had a large post typed up and I lost it. /stab random person

When I voted Elie, I didn't like his overly snarky tone, or the way that his attitude towards his own attempts at ending RVS. Even though I don't think that what he was doing was likely to get anywhere, he made it out to be some big thing. Not an amazing reason but it was good enough for the time of the vote.

After that, though, instead of responding to my vote properly, he just said "I'm not looking for towncred, I'm scumhunting", which is a dumb response. He followed that up with a bad vote for Shinori that took what Shinori meant by "lazy" out of context. He still hasn't explained this. His suspicion of Wombat in that post was extremely semantic and took issue with the fact that Wombat said he disliked Bizz, instead of saying he found Bizz scummy. It also disregarded the reasons Wombat gave for his Bizz suspicion and said that Wombat didn't provide any reasons for why he thought Bizz was scummy.

And lining up lynches is not an extension of using associative reads w/o a flip. The former is going "One of X and Y has to be scum", and then after one of them flips town, using that to go for the other. Saying "X and Y are buddying" doesn't allow you to do this. They're both scummy, but they're not similar.

Lol at all these lost posts.

BBM, is my bit above providing more clarity towards my vote to Shinori? Because that's what I was getting at when I made it in the first place. And why is my semantics analysis scummy? Shit like scumslips are caught due to semantics analysis, and if I'm not allowed to do that, then I'm literally stuck taking in what people say and not allowing myself to seek things like motivation and "effort" *Read, forcing words* behind another player's post. Also, for more clarity, I disregarded Wombat's case on Bizz because I think it's bad and don't support it. Not the other way around.

I don't have as much time as I thought I would so I may only get one or two posts in.

Let's start with SB's wall:

1. Where I'm from, lurking is seen as suspicious so that is an incentive for scum to fake activity. Also, scum fake "townie activity" because active players have more chances to towntell. Basically, scum like to spend as much of the game as possible saying things that look town but aren't actually pro-town. Things like saying we should get out of RVS while not actually moving the game forward.

2. YEAH IT'S OVER THE TOP BUT IT'S ALSO RP SO DISLIKE ALL YOU WANT FOR NOW

3. I don't understand why you think all of my posts were useless up until I quoted Levity. I did a couple silly reaction tests then started casing Elie pretty quickly.

4. Not grasping, just debunking. Elie said I wasn't acting in town's interest by not going with his plan. I said his plan was a waste of time so it didn't serve town's interests anyways. Even if Elie's plan only wasted 1 hour, the point still stands that going along with a plan that won't accomplish anything is not anti-town as Elie was implying.

5. Pushing the hypocrisy angle is not scummy; it's just wrong in this case. My posts were far better than Elie's. Of course that's my opinion, but I think townies who look back with a critical eye will see it for truth.

6. I'm not certain that Elie is scum. I don't know where you got that from. I'm more certain than I usually am D1 and I've been pushing aggressively but that doesn't mean I'm even close to certain. IIRC the most definitive statement I've made with regards to his alignment is that I had a "significant scum read" on him.

And that's all I can do on the comp right now. I may be able to post something from my phone but I won't be able to do multiquotes or anything.

@Bolded: I said

Sorry I can't be more useful. Leo, I notice you completely ignored my suggestion (that I suggested multiple times), so to be frank, I don't really care that you voted me because you seem like yore just doing what you want for your own interest and not overall town interest, sooooooooo, bro?

Stop sticking words in my mouth. I said it seemed like your own interest but not overall town interest, and you weren't trying to do what I was suggesting but you weren't suggesting a reason as to Why, so I assumed you were just gonna do RVS or whatever. That implied something like forced apathy to me, and put a sour taste in my mouth of what to expect from you.

@underlined: Lol calling my Maflord on your 3rd post (which you said had to be done that way) was pretty obviously a reaction test, so I didn't react to it. If you're breaking down everything I say and finding that our difference of opinions on just about everything makes me scum, well that's one thing, but anyone who thinks Wombat was certain that I am scummy mcscumscum is pretty silly IMO.

I rushed that last post too much and forgot to switch my vote. Probably would not have noticed I didn't do this if not for this post/votals.

##Unvote (Psych)
##Vote: Elieson

I'll have more in a bit.

This is addressed before, you still haven't really posted this "more", and screams either Apathetic or Horrible Rein Excuse. Either one is sadly, not indicitive of anything.

This is the post I quoted when I told Elie his suggestions were wasting time. It clearly shows him trying to impy that not going along with his plan is scummy.

I basically told him it's not scummy to not want to do something that won't catch scum THAT IS TO SAY SOMETHING THAT WASTES TIME.

Riiiight. I called you scum for not following my suggestion. MAYBE you could stretch that i was calling you scummy but I was calling your behavior/ignorance towards me more Antitown than anything else. Read *I was calling your behavior antitown and not you specifically antitown*. Way to be uber sensitive.

D1 reads in general are very mutable. There are no flips at the start of D1.

And any read that has to do with player interaction (i.e. most of the reads in mafia) is associative to some degree.

And also, if my reads on Bizz and Elie were largely associative, that would preclude them being used to line up mislynches, which is basically what Elie accused me of.

I think people might have a point if I were trying say something like "Player A and Player B have to be on opposite sides. If Player A flips town, Player B is scum." That kind of statement is super scummy unless there is really good evidence like flips and vote analysis. That kind of read would be very scummy right now. My accusations of defense are not. In fact, scum often like to defend townies to get towncred. One of the easiest ways to catch scum is to spot someone who defended a scummy townie way too hard.

@bolded: no no no no no no no no no no. It's Day fucking 1 man. Unless you're a multitargetting daycop during D1, the game features N0 with some form of pooled results, or scum outright claims themselves, there's no associative reads to be had. At all. None. Nada. For you to say that there are literally rip the fabric of the game because there's zero proof of anything to work with.

@underlined: Ugh this statement bothers me. Scum like to defend townies JUST AS OFTEN AS Townies like to defend people that they feel are townies. It's generally a matter of opinion on towniness based on each player. What you find scummy from a player, I might not. Does that make me scum? Because I disagree with your opinion on something being scummy? If that's the case, then literally everyone who doesn't vote for your scumreads is scummy. What if I'm cop and I scan a scummy town member just to be sure we're not gonna mislynch, and find out that said scummy town member is not scum, and start hard-mode defending him inexplicably. Am I scummy just because i'm defending him without outting myself? There's too many variables in this blanket statement of yours, and in all reality, it doesn't hold much to itself because it's an argument that collapses on itself as time progresses.

Oh, real quick, Elie, I realized one problem in all of your flirting with me. And that's that I'm not gay. No matter how much some people might think I am! I'M NOT! I SWEAR!

(ok, actually going back to rereading now)

I don't care if you're gay or not, because I would love to get your digits and buy you a few drinks regardless...

Oh wait. OH WAIT THIS CAN'T BE SCORRELIE?

yeah this right here

elie isn't a STRONG town read of mine in the first place, I never actually said that. if you thought I was implying it, I wasn't. you're putting words in my mouth by putting a statement I said together with my behavior towards elie and I don't like that.

I can't remember why I quoted this. I think it's because you are attempting to present people in a way that they're really not by bending words' definitions regarding town-scum scaling.

Also getting bad vibes from Manix right now. He seems to be spending a lot of his time arguing about theory. The only scumhunting-like things he's done imo have been asking questions of people. I do like asking questions to get someone to go on the record on something, but when it's done too much, it reads to me like scum trying to get their agenda pushed without it leading back to them by asking leading questions.

Manix's numbers claim was pro-town, but that's also the kind of thing Manix would do as scum to get towncred imo. In fact, I don't think there's much that Manix wouldn't do as scum to get towncred (which is good scum play btw).

With as many numbers claims as there are in SF mafia, numbers claims only serve to promote discussion, even if it's to promote discussion in the wrong direction, because even discussion in the wrong direction is discussion and leads to building reads and opinions. No one really deliberates numbers until mid-late game so numbers claims don't do much of anything to build reads. I think this is a pretty horrible case to call someone scummy because you're unnecessarily bringing something up as EITHER TOWN OR SCUM, and it is So UNBELIEVABLE WAFFLY that bringing it up in the first place seems rather questionable and more like forced filler to make it look like you're scumreading Manix when really you don't know what to put him down as.

my scummeta since CMV has kinda changed; sure i still like my bussing but i'm not as compulsive about it. i get deadly apthetic during the game, that's a better tell than anything else.

and i think i lost my fakeclaim touch so shrug

K this uhhhh, doesn't really matter much because self-scum-meta is something that doesn't tell anyone much of anything useful. Manix, you tend to get apathetic when things seem dismal for you, regardless of alignment. That's the gyst of it >.>

Gotta agree with Helios about Psych's "scumslip". I don't think it means much of anything. It looked to me more like a badly worded criticism of Shinori's scumhunting than saying that Shinori literally wasn't finding scum.

It's not just bad logic on Elie's part, his scumhunting is incredibly lackluster. His Wombat case is bad and his Shinori vote is based on a misrep.

It makes me uncomfortable when people change their minds in the middle of their post, even when they admit it. This isn't realtime mafia. If your opinions change in the middle of writing the post, you can just take out the parts you changed your mind on. Keeping it in just to completely change tracks is unnecessary and just inflates your post. That was wrt Nag's last post.

Way to hurt my feelings man. I thought we were cooler than that. Why's my wombat case bad again? FTR, I'm actually finding him to be more scummy based on stuff I quoted here.

@bolded: Sometimes I change my mind in the middle of a post, because while I'm building a post, I take a closer read at the things I'm quoting/arguments I'm building. I generally re-read a post that I make to check for grammatical consistency and to see if what I'm saying is what I actually believe or if it's just an indeciferable mishmosh of nonsense that nobody aside from me would get. IN this, I build/reinforce a read (or change it). It's not necessary to take parts out, because things like that show your thought processes, and show someone literally changing their mind. People are often harped for changing their minds without specifying when, why or how. Altering your post to remove your thoughts as they change is a wonderful way to skip explaining your reads.

Ugh, I suppose I need to post something eventually, but I still don't have anything to say... uhh, hi guys, I guess? I'm still not following any of these wagons or reasoning or anything... day starts really need to not be a thing, I can't work in a vacuum... not that I accomplish anything outside of a vacuum but still...

Remind me why I bother to try, again? The game is about crazy interlocking interactions between people now, and I couldn't read a person if they stamped their exact thoughts and emotions onto their forehead.

Hi Ether. Self Depreciation is a thing. Also, with 14 pages, you've seriously got /nothing/ to work off of? Nothing? Nothing at all?

Ugghhhhh I dislike this (and I find it scummy because this I view this as essentially a filler post to feign effort)

Unless this is strictly an RP post, in which wow good job RP'ing Cam/Rein.

[Elieson]

Also until I get a better response from Shinori than /that/, I'm holding my vote on him. Finding Wombat to be a frustating mix of irritating/scummy, and developing a scumread on Manix.

Need to post more but, I just got called to be a DD for an intoxicated friend so BRB

[Psych]

elie talk about me~