PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Kamui vi Britannia]

Quick Question: What is the typical set for Virion!Nah@Bride? Also which of the following setups would you suggest:

Henry!Cynthia@Dark Flier x Lon'qu!Brady@Sage

Ricken!Owain@Sage x Virion!Nah@Bride

or

Henry!Cynthia@Dark Flier x Ricken!Owain@Sage

Lon'qu!Brady@Sage x Virion!Nah@Bride

[Czar_Yoshi]

LB/BF/All+2 and two of your choice of Str+2, Skl+2 and Deliverer.

Go for whichever combo gives you more 75 Spd units. Otherwise they're pretty much the same.

[HeoandReo]

Even though I had my pairings set a few pages back, I considered the possibility of taking fuller advantage of Lucina's Dual Strike+ by pairing her with Owain instead of Gerome or Laurent. Functionally it'll be similar to the Lucina/Laurent pair where DS+ let Laurent run V/V reliably or having Laurent be a Sage partner for a Sniper/Sage pairup, but Owain lets me get that same outcome, only in a double Galeforce pair. It's tempting to try to take these possibilities to the limit, so I've rejigged my pairings a little bit.

Sumia!Lucina x Libra!Owain

-The main change. This was mostly inspired by going through my run and seeing how easy it could actually be to get Owain all set compared to Laurent. He starts with Vantage, Libra passes Vengeance and Lissa passes Galeforce, so he could just Second Seal to Priest, Rescue spam, promote to Sage and he's good to go. His lower skill also makes him a good choice for Lucina to use her Dual Strike+ with, and he still has stuff to help his hit like Anathema if it comes down to it.

Chrom!Cynthia x +Skl/-Def Avatar

-Same as previous. Mostly physical stuff to reach high Dual Strike rates but lots of things are viable here.

Chrom!Cynthia!Morgan x Stahl!Laurent

-One of my main mixed offense pairs. Morgan will usually go Sniper while Laurent will usually go Sage. I also did some more tinkering and found a setup that lets me have a Sniper/Sage pair with both 100% Dual Strike and 75 speed, giving me a reliable Anna/Sniper killer who can do it even at 3-range if I want them to. Morgan runs LB/GF/AS+2/Defender/Spe+2, Laurent runs LB/Agg/AS+2/Skl+2/TF. The skill difference otherwise (87+72) is made up by Defender, and the speed difference (Morgan would end at 72) is made up by Defender + Spe+2. Sniper/Sage is their main calling card, but they can run a few other things too. (75 speed Wyvern with Berserker/Assassin pair, double Sage, etc.)

Lon'qu!Severa x Virion!Yarne

-Same as previous. Can go 75 speed Wyvern or 100% DS in a variety of setups.

Gaius!Kjelle x Frederick!Inigo

-Also the same as previous. Still does the same things it did earlier - 100% DS pair regardless of who's in front or back and Inigo can be a dodgetank. They can be dual Assassins for dodging and Dual Strike or a second-string Wyvern/Hero or Zerker pair for a high mobility unit with good attack power.

Vaike!Nah x Henry!Brady

-With Owain going to Lucina, Brady takes his place and gives slightly higher Dual Strike rate with his 4 skill. Otherwise it's still the same 75 speed Sage with Hero support. Kind of boring but it gets the job done.

Donnel!Noire x Gregor!Gerome

-This is the major result of the pairing conundrum I ran into, since Owain going onto Lucina means that Noire has to run Galeforce to still retain the maximum number of pairs. It's not quite ideal, but it's workable. (Gregor/Cherche support makes up for Donnel/Tharja support in my book) I initially had Stahl!Gerome here, but his best support otherwise for Noire would be Hero, since Bowfaire Warrior brings her speed way too low. However, his offensive potential suffers a little bit as a result. Gregor is my alternative - Stahl going to Laurent frees him up for Gerome to run Berserker/Axefaire Hero for good strength and a speed boost to give Noire a niche as a physical ranged unit compared to Lucina/Morgan having magical partners. Sniper Noire is never going to hit 75 speed without a barracks boost (to be fair Sniper Lucina doesn't either, paired up with Sage Owain if she wants to keep her procs) but she does get enough speed to work with - she could even drop All Stats+2 for Anathema to make up for Gerome lacking a +hit skill and still be above 69. Theoretically, I could also swap Gregor and Vaike around for Gregor!Nah and Vaike!Gerome, meaning Nah could get Valkyrie for magic support for Brady too, which might be a good idea if Gregor!Nah and Vaike!Gerome is a better overall outcome than what I have now.

It's not too late to change pairings, but I already have a few marriages set (Sully/Gaius, Panne/Virion, Lissa/Libra, Nowi/Vaike, Chrom/Sumia) so changing some would mean restarting, which I'm open to doing but it's a little annoying. I can probably get away with Donnel!Noire in Apo as long as Gerome is always either a Hero or Berserker. There's a few questions that are going to affect it, though.

Is the extra speed Gaius gives to Noire worth losing out on utility on Kjelle? Going Gaius!Noire lets her still reach >69 speed as a Sniper with a 0 speed pair up, so Gerome could also go Warrior if he needs to for higher accuracy and comparable power as Berserker - I could run a high accuracy Gerome without having Noire run Anathema in lieu of another skill. However, this means doing Donnel!Kjelle, which isn't bad but she loses out on the Wyvern option with Hero/Berserker Inigo, 100% Dual Strike as dual Assassins, and pretty much is all Assassin all the time, especially as Inigo's dodge tank partner. If Inigo is strictly leading, it might be OK, but I still feel it would be a waste of Kjelle's potential - if she's getting Galeforce, she'd better use it. This could also complicate Morgan a little bit if I decide to put Stahl back on Gerome. My gut feelings says that Noire will likely be OK even with Gaius!Kjelle - even in a slower class like Sniper she can still get enough speed to work with.

Is Gregor!Nah and Vaike!Gerome significantly different from Vaike!Nah and Gregor!Gerome that it would be worth switching them around? Both Nahs can run Axefaire Heroes, but the fact that Gregor!Nah could also go Tomefaire Valkyrie as an alternative sounds mighty tasty too, and paired with Brady he'd have higher magic and still reach 75 speed iirc. That Gregor/Cherche support is so good though, and I don't know if there's any major differences to really justify the switch. Gregor!Gerome also has a bit more stuff he can play with in postgame maps compared to Vaike!Gerome with Vantage and Astra, and I kind of like the variety I get with him compared with Vaike. This is also one of the marriages that is set, so restarting just for that might be a little pedantic. I'll still do it though, if the difference is significant.

Edited February 7, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Diabeasty]

Hey Czar_Yoshi, if you read this do you think you'd be able to post your 100% DS team again? (If not I can always go digging for it) I'd like to see what you did for a few units, mostly Owain and Nah. I'm working on a team that coincidentally ended up being able to have around 6 pairs that are capable of reaching 100% DS, but Owain and Nah are proving difficult to work into any pairings that can reach 100% as well. I might just have them go without, I'm already using an oddball pairing in Kellam!Noire who is paired with the more standard Lon'Qu!Brady and I'd like to keep my sacrifices to a minimum. Frederick and Donnel are my only bachelors at the moment, I would think Frederick could be worked in there somewhere since he has +2 skl. I can post what I've got later, I have it saved in a text file.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Is the extra speed Gaius gives to Noire worth losing out on utility on Kjelle?

Is Gregor!Nah and Vaike!Gerome significantly different from Vaike!Nah and Gregor!Gerome that it would be worth switching them around?

1. I'd say not. Gaius!Kjelle is really good and Donnel makes everyone lackluster. This might even be a situation where you'd want to bench a pair to get more Staffbots, if they can't pull their weight no matter what you do without badly hurting another pair they may have to go.

2. I'd say Gregor!Nah isn't worth restarting over, though she definitely is better. If you could get Henry!Nah though, that definitely would be worth it (does Gregor!Brady look workable? Same Skl as Henry!Brady and all you'd be doing is shifting 2 Mag to the back, which is a good deal).

Hey Czar_Yoshi, if you read this do you think you'd be able to post your 100% DS team again?

Here you go:

Sumia x Chrom

Sumia!Lucina@Falco (LB/GF/LF/DS+/Charm) x Libra!Owain@Berserker (LB/Agg/AF/All+2/Hex)

Henry!Inigo@Assassin (LB/All+2/GF/Agg/SF) x Fred!Noire@Sniper-B (LB/BF/All+2/Defender/Skl+2)

Gaius!Kjelle@Assassin-B (LB/All+2/GF/SF/Defender) x Vaike!Yarne@Hero (LB/Agg/All+2/Str+2/AF)

Chrom!Cynthia@Falco (LB/All+2/Defender/GF/LF) x +Skl/-Def Avatar-M@Sniper (LB/Agg/BF/All+2/Skl+2)

Lon'qu!Brady@Assassin (LB/Agg/All+2/GF/SF) x Stahl!Nah@Sniper (LB/BF/All+2/Deliverer/Skl+2)

Virion!Severa@Sniper (LB/GF/All+2/Deliverer/BF) x Gregor!Laurent@Assassin (LB/Agg/SF/All+2/AT)

Morgan@Falco (LB/All+2/Defender/GF/LF) x Ricken!Gerome@Sniper (LB/Agg/BF/All+2/Skl+2)

Palla@Falco (Spc/Hrt/Skl/Mov/Str)

Catria@Falco (Spc/Hrt/Skl/Mov/Def)

Est@Falco (Spc/Hrt/Skl/Mov/Spd)

Katarina@Valkyrie (LB/GF/TF/SG/All+2)

I'm still tweaking some sets, mostly Katarina, Lucina/Owain and Chrom/Sumia. Lucina and Owain are being set up for a perfect kill on Thronie, I haven't figured out what I'll be doing with Chrom and Sumia yet (likely killing Invincisorc on EP) and Katarina will be for Mire chip and I need to figure out the maximum amount of boosts she needs for that (the rest go into +Mov). Vaike!Yarne also might see a possible Str+2 swap for Tantivity or Axebreaker, but it's not likely.

[Sentacotus]

Thinking about doing a Hard Classic run for fun one pair I'm thinking of is Henry x Tharja. Use a second seal on Noire to make her a dark mage to 20 then master seal to sorceror. Last time I did Stahl x Tharja (leftovers) and did the same thing and she was a beast magic user but I'm trying to make her even better. Advice particularly on skills?

[Vanilluxe]

-

Edited July 15, 2015 by Vanilluxe

[weso12]

What's the ideal skill for a male avatar to pass to his daughters, I know the male exclusive skills aren't that great but it feels wierd not passing one down, (I'm the type of person that makes sure Olivia!Lucina gets Luck +4) (If it matters my avatar is B Luck/W Defense, and my wife is sully, I know those are far from optimal but IDC) (Also I'm a grinder so long term skills over short term)

Edited February 7, 2015 by weso12

[Azz]

Doing a Lunatic run for the first time and have been planning and was wondering how are my pairings:

Chrom x Sumia=Lucina and Cynthia

Ricken x Lissa=Owain

MU x Olivia=Inigo and Morgan(I am really bias when it comes to this)

Virion x Maribelle=Brady

Donnel x Sully=Kjelle

Stahl x Cordelia=Severa

Gregor/Vaike x Cherche=Gerome(Sill deciding)

Lon'qu x Panne=Yarne(Once again bias af)

Libra/Henry x Miriel=Laurent(Still contemplating)

Gaius x Tharja=Noire

Gregor/Vaike x Nowi=Nah(Much like with Cherche and Miriel still choosing)

Then for child pairings:

Owain(Dread Fighter) x Severa(Hero)

Inigo(Hero) x Cynthia(Falcon Knight) or Lucina(GL)

Brday(Sage(Staffbot) or Wyvern Lord/Griffon Rider support) x Kjelle(Paladin)

Gerome(Wyvern Lord) x Lucina(GL) or Cynthia(Falcon Knight)

Yarne(Griffon Rider) x Noire(Sniper or Assassin)

Laurent(Sage) x Morgan(Sorcerer)

Thoughts?

Edited February 7, 2015 by Azz01

[HeoandReo]

1. I'd say not. Gaius!Kjelle is really good and Donnel makes everyone lackluster. This might even be a situation where you'd want to bench a pair to get more Staffbots, if they can't pull their weight no matter what you do without badly hurting another pair they may have to go.

2. I'd say Gregor!Nah isn't worth restarting over, though she definitely is better. If you could get Henry!Nah though, that definitely would be worth it (does Gregor!Brady look workable? Same Skl as Henry!Brady and all you'd be doing is shifting 2 Mag to the back, which is a good deal).

That's what I thought. Noire with Galeforce paired with Gerome probably won't get 100 Dual Strike no matter who her dad is, and moving Gaius over to her robs Kjelle of that setup and other options too for a relatively marginal benefit. They're not necessarily the stars of the show though - Lucina and/or Morgan cover the Sniper part and Cynthia/Severa/Kjelle cover the physical attacking portion. Could make her a Bride with physical support from Gerome - the higher speed gives her a few more options for pairups, and actually opens up more possibilities to reach 75. Not that she needs to, but she can do it more conveniently than going Sniper. I really wish she got another good class like Sage or Assassin or something from her normal skillset so that Donnel doesn't cripple her relative to the other kids - the other reason why I'm not big on Donnel!Noire. You can press start to skip the supports, you can pretend that, rather than another option, that Noire came about by cursing a piece of Donnel's hair but you're stuck with Noire herself being a cut below everyone else.

Sniper Donnel!Noire might still be OK in Apo paired with Berserker or Hero Gerome then, maybe with the physical Sniper niche I mentioned. I've accepted that the instant I put Gaius on Kjelle, Noire would always end up being a second-tier kid. It's one of the things that I kind of hate about Noire - she needs Avatar or Gaius to be good, and either option ends up hurting the whole team. (I do have Avatar!Noire in another file and she's frankly awesome, and do plan to do Gaius!Noire in another game but those are other files and not this one.)

Gregor!Brady is a possibility, and another one of my guilty pleasure pairings. (Mods clash but great skill selection - maybe not full power in Apo, but absolutely crazy everywhere else) Losing the option for a Tomefaire Mire + GF sniping and GF + Vengeance sucks but what can you do. Paired with Henry!Nah she more than makes up for the 2 magic deficit Brady gets assuming she goes Valk, and they end up hitting harder magically too, albeit I'm not sure if they can hit mixed as well as Henry!Brady + Vaike!Nah can. DS rate also goes down a bit but again they're not hitting 100 either way. Henry!Nah doesn't need Axefaire (I think) so what should he pass down in its stead? To be honest, I've tinkered a bit with Henry!Nah, but never used her in any great amount in practice - I know that Valkyrie support is her main niche, but are there other things she's capable of doing?

I might restart for all of that - it's just that for these type of superkid files I like to play on Lunatic to make postgame more interesting, and the earlygame is always a massive pain. I got super lucky with Second Seals before Chapter 13 too.

Edited February 7, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Ownagepuffs]

Wow a lot of questions here.

Thinking about doing a Hard Classic run for fun one pair I'm thinking of is Henry x Tharja. Use a second seal on Noire to make her a dark mage to 20 then master seal to sorceror. Last time I did Stahl x Tharja (leftovers) and did the same thing and she was a beast magic user but I'm trying to make her even better. Advice particularly on skills?

Henry x Tharja is a bit of an oddball pairing with a somewhat weird mod clash. As a Sorc the only skills Noire would ever need don't come from Henry.

What are the best skills for a female and male spotpass unit being used for combat?

Female - Galeforce, Proc, Proc, Limit Break, Whatever

Male - I recommend Spotpass Ike since he has Aether. Aether Luna Bowfaire Aggressor, Limit Break. He is a Sniper. Anyone other male spotpass isn't really worth the effort. Except maybe Pr. Marth for Dual Support +.

Doing a Lunatic run for the first time and have been planning and was wondering how are my pairings:

Chrom x Sumia=Lucina and Cynthia Insanely powerful. High galeforce and Aether distribution. Chrom lets Sumia hit some important speed benchmarks in the early game. Base Sumia can double like everything until chapter 8 at base with Chrom pair up. Just be sure to give Sumia the renown Seraph Robe.

Ricken x Lissa=Owain Very good post game. Very bad in game.

MU x Olivia=Inigo and Morgan(I am really bias when it comes to this) If you've got bias then I can't say anything. It's your game.

Virion x Maribelle=Brady Brady is awful in game. Drop in staff bot at best. Very good post game.

Donnel x Sully=Kjelle Good because Kjelle is good.

Stahl x Cordelia=Severa Very powerful in game. Stahl provides very useful pair up bonuses to Cordelia. However, Stahl himself is hard to train because of his speed rut. Regardless, a good in game and post game pair. A shame the hair is fugly.

Gregor/Vaike x Cherche=Gerome(Sill deciding) Pretty much interchangeable. Gregor has Armsthrift at least. Both of them go well with Cherche but Vaike wants to go Hero.

Lon'qu x Panne=Yarne(Once again bias af) Your game. Keep our bias.

Libra/Henry x Miriel=Laurent(Still contemplating) Neither really make Laurent special. I'd probably suggest Henry just because it's Henry.

Gaius x Tharja=Noire Good post game. Hard to make in game.

Gregor/Vaike x Nowi=Nah(Much like with Cherche and Miriel still choosing) This is kinda tough. Gregor and Nowi have an instant C rank and Nowi appreciates Gregor's pair up bonuses more than Vaike's in game. Vaike gives her slightly better mods. I'll probably go with Gregor for the convenience.

Then for child pairings:

Owain(Dread Fighter) x Severa(Hero)

Inigo(Hero) x Cynthia(Falcon Knight) or Lucina(GL)

Brday(Sage(Staffbot) or Wyvern Lord/Griffon Rider support) x Kjelle(Paladin)

Gerome(Wyvern Lord) x Lucina(GL) or Cynthia(Falcon Knight)

Yarne(Griffon Rider) x Noire(Sniper or Assassin)

Laurent(Sage) x Morgan(Sorcerer)

Thoughts? Without grinding (or hell even with grinding) you cannot make all of these pairs under Lunatic conditions. Might I suggest Gregor with Miriel and Henry with Cherche?

Edited February 7, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[Vanilluxe]

Edited July 15, 2015 by Vanilluxe

[Arky]

Don't do sol + luna

Sol procs over luna, ends up decreasing your damage overall

for future reference and builds

Although characters may equip multiple offensive Skills with activation rates, only one of these Skills can activate at a given time; the priority of the Skills goes:

Lethality > Aether > Astra > Sol > Luna > Ignis > Vengeance

Despite this, astra + luna is pretty decent and is right there on swordsmaster before sf

Edited February 8, 2015 by Arky

[Vanilluxe]

-

Edited July 15, 2015 by Vanilluxe

[Arky]

edited my post late

astra+luna is decent

[Vanilluxe]

-

Edited July 15, 2015 by Vanilluxe

[Arky]

AT is the best skill ever

I dunno how high you can get it on spotpass guys though

Even just 50% armsthift would be worth imo. unless you don't forge weapons and I assume spotpass guys can get around 40 luck, so that's hella worth

AT4life

Edited February 8, 2015 by Arky

[Czar_Yoshi]

I don't have DLC, so would these skill sets be good:

Female: Galeforce, Swordfaire, Armthrist or Defender, Luna, Sol

Male: Aether, Luna, Bowfaire, Armthrist or Defender, Counter

Defender is pretty useless unless you've got a very extreme and important threshold to hit. I don't recommend it. Sol and Luna have poor synergy on offensive units, and if you're aiming for tankiness then a +Avo skill like Lucky 7 (assuming non-Apo) would do you much better than any offense form Luna. Counter also does nothing unless you're taking damage, which you really shouldn't be during any form of postgame.

Non-DLC sets that work for just any old spotpass unit are kind of boring because your males are stuck with no real role due to lacking both supports and GF, your females have no reliable DS and there's nothing that can handle you when you're fully decked out anyway, but there are still a few skills you should have on hand and pick-and-choose from on a per-map basis, in general order of usefulness:

-Galeforce: on all females and all males that have it. It's primarily a movement skill to better position yourself in large groups of enemies to clear things out on enemy phase.

-Despoil: for cash. Especially useful on Archers and GF units who don't need to kill stuff on enemy phase. Leif's Blade works too.

-Armsthrift: if you don't have Golden Gaffe, you'll want to make your weapons last, and using Bronze is boring.

-Deliverer: a secondary Galeforce that everyone can get.

-Lifetaker/Renewal/Sol: healing. No need for more than one. The former two are for hit-and-run, the latter is for EP tanking.

-*Breaker: it's pretty common to see maps that specialize in one weapon type. Keep all on hand for this.

-Aegis: a good backup for Wyverns on high difficulties. Not very useful elsewhere.

-Mov+1: Deliverer but worse. Not usually worth it.

-Anathema/Focus/Solidarity: Critstacking. Fun to play around with.

So basically get all those skills and pick-and-choose from that pool on a per-map basis. You'll probably find situations in which others are good, but these are the most common ones. They're also primarily intended for lowmanning the Lunatic(+) postgame Risen, so if you intend to do something else it either won't matter or these won't work. While you could try to consolidate these into a single set, it would have the same effect as this but just be less versatile.

AT is the best skill ever

I dunno how high you can get it on spotpass guys though

Even just 50% armsthift would be worth imo. unless you don't forge weapons and I assume spotpass guys can get around 40 luck, so that's hella worth

AT4life

That's fine and everything, but overhyping and bandwagoning tends to be the cause of pretty much every time the meta has gone off on some wild and useless tangent. Do you mind elaborating on exactly why you like AT, as opposed to merely "AT4life"?

Edited February 8, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Arky]

I mean he said no DLC

I can't imagine trying to farm enough gold to constantly keep a supply of nice weapons, forged or not without armsthrift.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Arky

[SSJDennis]

So are you primarily caring about ingame, postgame skirmishes, or...?

Actually, I do expect some difficutly during the in-game. But that probably can be handled with alot of grinding. Do I have to reset FOREVER, just to escape some Vantage+/Luna+? I know we have to early game.

Postgame, Skirmishes and DLC mainly. Because that will last, after I've finished the story. Skirmishes also have Limit Breaker enemies? Or will those cap at "regular" caps?

I also saw some interesting Lon'Qu!Yarne info, what class should he be? What skillset? I made him Berserker because of his high strength. Same goes for Gerome.

[Czar_Yoshi]

No, you shouldn't have much necessary resetting for skills if you're grinding, even earlygame. Vantage+ never auto-kills runs (though there are a couple of places where it increases your odds of death) and Luna+ only spells death on one enemy (if you're using Int's strats, that is).

Skirmishes don't have LB, they only go up to normal caps. They're still random and tightly packed, but also a notch below Apo so if you can handle it you can handle them.

Lon'qu!Yarne should be marrying Avatar-F and can either go Assassin to try for 100% DS or Berserker for maximum damage output. He's primarily good for Morgan's sake, so don't use him if he wouldn't be marrying Avatar-F.

[SSJDennis]

Lon'qu!Yarne should be marrying Avatar-F and can either go Assassin to try for 100% DS or Berserker for maximum damage output. He's primarily good for Morgan's sake, so don't use him if he wouldn't be marrying Avatar-F.

Uhm, I've always be hesistant to marry Avatar to Yarne, because of his "beast" weakness... Exactly how many Halberds or the like would I face?

Skillset for 100% DS?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Weaknesses don't matter too much postgame because there are so many things that can do over half your health already that it's just one more thing to watch out for rather than a debilitating flaw in your plan. OHKOes aren't an issue- even a Luna+ Beastkiller++ from a capped GK won't OHKO when capped in any promoted class (provided you have LB and either a support or positive Def mod).

[Azz]

Is Stahl!Gerome sufficent in Apo Hard?I was thinking about switching my pairings around:

Vaike!Severa

Gregor!Nah

Kellam!Laurent(I read Miriel's and Kellam's supports okay,I know it is not as good as other pairings)

So then after this switch Stahl was lef and I don't want to waste a good father and then Gerome has no dad so I thought 'what would these to be like?'.If they are not optimal I will go back to my original Stahl!Severa Gregor!Gerome Vaike!Nah set-up.

[astrophys]

Apotheosis can be beaten by the parents generation, even when the parents are worse than the kids.

Almost ANY of the kids are "sufficient" for Apotheosis.

Now, I won't comment on whether its the "best" or "excellent" for Apotheosis, but its also certainly "good enough" for Apotheosis.