PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Shadow Mir]

If it's the childless mothers, then it's a contest between Anna and Say'ri (assuming you do complete Anna's paralogue as soon as the chapter opens). Else it would only be Say'ri. Anna has a little availability on Say'ri, but you then weigh that against base class (and that class skills)

I think Tiki, as well as Flavia, Emm, and Aversa, comes too late for a relevant Morgan (feel free to make a point against it).

I'm inclined to agree with this. Some of the later ones could hypothetically have use for Morgan on 0% growths but outside of anything like that availability trumps all.

So it ain't much of a contest, huh...

[Azz]

Okay so I recently was reading that the so called 'canon' pairings were hinted at.(Based on how fast one builds up a support with another,yes I also know it is a bit of old news) and decided hey I like these parings personality wise so lets try a playthrough and see what they are like.I want to do Apo(Doing normal since I know these pairings are far from the most optimal minus a few) so I came here asking for what I could do with then children.I wont use them all *coyghFreddy!Bradycough* but I was still wondering.

so here they are:

Sumia!Lucina(most likely I will do a GL set-up since I see this one everywhere and I used it myself)

Vaike!Owain

Henry!Inigo

Freddy!Brady

Kellam!Kjelle

Chrom!Cynthia

Libra!Severa

Virion!Gerome

Ricken!Yarne

Stahl!Laurent

Gaius!Noire

Gregor!Nah

Also apparently the kids so called 'canon' pairings are:

Lucina x Laurent

Owain x Kjelle

Inigo x Cynthia

Brady x Severa

Gerome x Nah

Yarne x Noire

Also as for Morgan I really don't know.I was going with Aversa for SG but poor Morgan will be on her lonesome unless pair her with her Aversa or MU(Who is +HP/-Luk cause he is a basic bitch)but I may just import an onther avatar for MU to pair with so Morgan will have her Aversa.

Anyways I know I am sounding either completely dumb or something but I want to see these work since I read all their supports and found they were the most enjoyable(Especially Olivia and Henry and Ricken and Panne.)But yeah.I am waiting t be called stupid.

[HadesRayne]

Another quick question : If I use Sumia!Lucina!Morgan (which I'll probably do), it is better to go LB/GF/AT/Aether/Luna or LB/GF/AT/Aether/Ignis, knowing that her final class will be Dark Flier ?

MU is either +Skl/+Spd -Def

Edited February 19, 2015 by HadesRayne

[Ownagepuffs]

@Azz01

For the most part the kids will still run standard sets with your those pairings. Vaike!Owain raises eyebrows since LQ x Lissa has a stronger case for implied canon.

@HadesRayne

Drop AT, run all 3.

[HadesRayne]

@HadesRayne

Drop AT, run all 3.

Isn't it a bit of an overkill ? Also I like AT (I'm a bit lazy) for less maintenance. Then again I may be wrong.

Also, I switched up my pairings a little :

Sumia!Lucina@DF w/ LB/Luna/Aether/DS+/GF

Chrom!Cynthia@DF w/ LB/Luna/Aether/GF/TF

Ricken!Owain@Sage w/ LB/Luna/GF/TF/Agg

Fred!Inigo@Hero w/ LB/Luna/Agg/GF/AT

LQ!Brady@Sage w/ LB/Luna/Agg/GF/TF

Donny!Kjelle@Wyv. Lord w/ LB/Luna/GF/AT/LF

Vaike!Severa@Hero w/ LB/AT/AF/Luna/GF

Gregor!Gerome@Hero w/ LB/AT/Agg/AS+2/AF

Stahl!Yarne@Zerker w/ LB/AF/Hit+20/AS+2/Agg

Virion!Laurent@Sage W/ LB/TF/Anathema/DSu+/AS+2

Gaius!Noire@Assassin (or Sniper) w/ LB/BF/Luna/Astra/GF

Henry!Nah@Valkyrie w/ LB/TF/Anathema/AS+2/DSu+

Lucy!Morgan@DF w/ LB/Ignis/Aether/GF/TF (or Luna, or AT)

The childs marriages gonna look like :

Lucina x Avatar

Cynthia x Laurent

Owain x Nah

Inigo x Noire

Brady x Morgan

Kjelle x Gerome

Severa x Yarne

Should I change anything ?

[Czar_Yoshi]

If you only want to use two, Ignis will be better.

[HadesRayne]

Dutily noted, thank you very much.

[spnc2217]

So I'm looking to optimize for apotheosis/postgame and don't mind grinding, based on what I've read I think I like:

Gaius!Noire

Donnel!Kjelle

Sumia!Lucina

Chrom!Cynthia

Lucina!Morgan

But I'm undecided about the other 8 kids. Any help?

Edited February 19, 2015 by spnc2217

[HadesRayne]

According to what I've read (I may be wrong mind you)

So I'm looking to optimize for apotheosis/postgame and don't mind grinding, based on what I've read I think I like:

Gaius!Noire

Donnel!Kjelle

Sumia!Lucina

Chrom!Cynthia

Lucina!Morgan

But I'm undecided about the other 8 kids. Any help?

I may be wrong, but here are a few things who can help :

Brady just doesn't care, as long as his father doesn't wreck his Mag, Skl, and Spd, he'll be alright (L'Q, Virion, Henry, Libra)

Yarne want a Hit booster, either Hit +20 (Stahl or Virion) or Hex + Anathema (Libra, Henry)

Owain want Luna (Ricken, Stahl if you like mixed) or Vengeance (Libra, Henry)

Inigo wants the same : Luna (Fred, Kellam, Ricken if you want him magical) or Vengeance (Libra, Henry)

Severa have almost everything she needs, give her a dad with a good Spd mod (L'Q, Virion) or Luna (if you don't like Vengeance : Vaike, Stahl, Ricken for Magical)

Laurent want Vantage (Stahl, L'Q) if VV, hard support Laurent nothing, just a non-negative Mag and Skl dad (Libra, Henry, Virion)

Nah can not have GF, so she'll want to go support : either physical (a Faire : Vaike, Greg, Stahl) or Magical (she's best with Valkyrie, Henry is your best bet here, Virion works too)

Gerome want any of Bowfaire (Stahl, Virion), Swordfaire (Stahl, Greg) or Axefaire, with preference for the latest (Zerker rock : Greg, Vaike, Henry)

Edited February 19, 2015 by HadesRayne

[Ownagepuffs]

@HadesRayne

Ignis rules on Hybrid classes so yeah, Ignis is probably better. The difference won't be too noticeable though.

@spnc2217

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=42247&page=187#entry3589895

A list of cookie cutter general purpose pairings. If you have any questions on why who goes where, just ask.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

VV is good in theory but in practice the stat combinations needed to make it useful don't match up with those present in Apo, and it usually winds up either being useless, redundant or a liability. Ask if you want elaboration, it's too late now.

Miracle doesn't stop DSes. It won't save a Streetpass team against someone who's been properly prepared.

No, I completely agree with V + V not being worth it in Apotheosis.

I should've elaborated on the subject of Miracle in StreetPass. I certainly don't use it in my StreetPass team. However, I do use it when fighting other StreetPass teams, in combination with Vengeance and Vantage. Since the AI doesn't Pair Up, Miracle is a godsend. Getting an additional 39 atk, and using it before enemy units can hit you, is fantastic, especially when you have a Brave weapon.

EDIT: My StreetPass team consists entirely of fliers with Braves, Limit Breaker, Lethality, and some combination of Counter, Iote's Shield, Lucky 7, and Luna. I chose fliers because watching some friends fight my team when it consisted of ground units resulted in the occasional exploitation of terrain, allowing them to fight only 1 or 2 of my units at a time. This was unacceptable, hence the switch to fliers. The idea is to swarm the player with units that have numerous opportunities to immediately kill one of the player's units. Equipping 1-range weapons forces the AI to attack at 1 range, which in turn provides opportunities to proc Counter. This team falls easily enough in indoor maps but is absolutely backbreaking in maps which were designed to favor fliers. It is certainly beatable, of course, but I did my best to provide a challenge to the player.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[Cat1803]

So, I'm thinking of taking my most recent Lunatic+ file to postgame. I used ChromxFeMU despite ChromxSumia being more optimal postgame (heck, that's the only postgame pairing I've ever used). Is there anything fun that ChromxFeMU and their progeny can do postgame? The best thing I can think of is easy 100% DS pairing with FeMU. Speed asset, if it even matters.

[Vascela]

FeMU x Chrom stomps main game, apotheosis, and streetpass harder than anyone else.

[HadesRayne]

Well, just about anything can be won with any pairings. It's simply better/funnier/whatever to have a good team.

Chromatar's main flaws are :

- Pairing imbalance (one less kid)

- No S-Rank Lucina/Morgan possible (second best after Aether!Morgan)

- RFK is borderline useless on Morgan.

- Chrom's mods are not impressive

Actually, it's Morgan who loses the most. Avatar!Lucina is quite good (then again, Lucina is good as long as she's got GF)

[Cat1803]

I know all that, thus why I almost always do ChromxSumia. (Also, Henry is often needed elsewhere but ends up on Cynthia when ChromxSumia isn't done)

I just wanted to see if there were any fun postgame niches of ChromxFeMU and their kids since I did that in my most recent ingame file. I know Awakening is about good and better and that Chrom!Morgan isn't impressive and that Lucina doesn't need Avatar to be a good unit. I was just wondering what other people had come up with in terms of unique niches for the two.... Honestly easy 100% DS for FeMU seems like the only draw.

[HadesRayne]

I've seen some guy run a single-pair Apo run with Chromatar, so it does have its advantage. But apart for 100% FeMU DS, it doesn't offer much.

[ckc22]

I've seen some guy run a single-pair Apo run with Chromatar, so it does have its advantage. But apart for 100% FeMU DS, it doesn't offer much.

I agree. I think it's obviously a good pairing, I'm just the type that tends to want to optimize my team rather than a few pairs - and it doesn't add much while inhibiting Lucina, Morgan, and Cynthia. Pairup is too broken to leave a uneven second gen also.

I will say I've only done 1 Femu run - a no grind Lunatic in which I definitely abused this pairing, so I'll say I don't have a ton of experience doing matchups for that side of the game.

Edited February 20, 2015 by ckc22

[Vascela]

Pairup is too broken to leave a uneven second gen also.

But you should also consider the situation where rally bots, dancer, rescue bots, etc. all take up unit slots. It is usually seen as a good decision to not field all your children in the first place.

[ckc22]

Pairup is too broken to leave a uneven second gen also.

But you should also consider the situation where rally bots, dancer, rescue bots, etc. all take up unit slots. It is usually seen as a good decision to not field all your children in the first place.

I'm just the type that tends to want to optimize my team rather than a few pairs

Since we all know that you can beat Apo with one pair really everything in this thread is pointless if you're really min/maxing.

Edited February 20, 2015 by ckc22

[zoned out]

I'm doing a playthrough for the first time in awhile since the new game was announced. Last time I played I mostly went with what was considered great pairings. This time around I'd like to not repeat my previous pairings which is listed below

Olivia!Lucina

Henry!Cynthia

Stahl!Severa

Gaius!Noire

Donnel!Nah

Vaike!Kjelle

Ricken!Owain

Chrom!Inigo

Libra!Brady

Frederick!Gerome

Gregor!Yarne

Lon'qu!Laurent

Aversa!FeMorgan

These are the pairs I have in mind

Sumia!Lucina

Chrom!Cynthia

Gaius!Kjelle

Donnel!Noire

Virion!Yarne

Can't decide betweenVaike and Henry for Nah. I feel that Vaike might be a better choice in the long run but I also prefer Henry!Nah's hair color to Vaike!Nah. It's a cosmetic thing but I'm not sure if that will screw Nah over if I go that route.

Severa will either get Lon'qu or Ricken for her. Lon'qu does give her that speed, but Ricken gives her better skills. I'm leaning towards Lon'qu!Severa though because of that hair color again.

For Owain I'm thinking Henry might get better use here. I've heard Stahl or Libra might also be good here but again I can't decide.

I can't think of anything for Gerome, Brady, or Laurent. Any help here would be appreciated

The biggest pairing issue I'm having is for my Avatar. I want to have a male child this time around and I'm torn between Inigo and MaMorgan. If I go MaAvatar and marry Olivia, I get two Morgans but if I go FeAvatar I plan to marry 2nd gen and most likely will go for Virion!Yarne!Morgan. But I've also heard that Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan is better for producing a god Morgan.

Also, kind of unrelated but what asset and flaw would be best for both of these scenarios? I'm thinking +SPD -DEF for Inigo and +SKL -DEF for Morgan.

[ckc22]

Can't decide betweenVaike and Henry for Nah. I feel that Vaike might be a better choice in the long run but I also prefer Henry!Nah's hair color to Vaike!Nah. It's a cosmetic thing but I'm not sure if that will screw Nah over if I go that route.

Severa will either get Lon'qu or Ricken for her. Lon'qu does give her that speed, but Ricken gives her better skills. I'm leaning towards Lon'qu!Severa though because of that hair color again.

For Owain I'm thinking Henry might get better use here. I've heard Stahl or Libra might also be good here but again I can't decide.

I can't think of anything for Gerome, Brady, or Laurent. Any help here would be appreciated

The biggest pairing issue I'm having is for my Avatar. I want to have a male child this time around and I'm torn between Inigo and MaMorgan. If I go MaAvatar and marry Olivia, I get two Morgans but if I go FeAvatar I plan to marry 2nd gen and most likely will go for Virion!Yarne!Morgan. But I've also heard that Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan is better for producing a god Morgan.

Also, kind of unrelated but what asset and flaw would be best for both of these scenarios? I'm thinking +SPD -DEF for Inigo and +SKL -DEF for Morgan.

This kind of plays into what Vascela and I were disagreeing about earlier - I personally prefer a 3rd gen morgan for balanced 2nd gen pair numbers and it tends to give morgan great stats. I wouldn't marry my Mamu to olivia - Inigo can get what he needs from many potential fathers (Stahl/Fred/Kellam/Ricken/Libra/Henry) and it's kind of a waste and Morgan gets basically nothing out of the deal. If I were marrying a mamu to a first gen unit I'd want to make sure non-Morgan really needed it/was getting something that was not possible with another pairing (like Nah).

Virion/Lonqu!Yarne are both pretty similar. I'd say that Lonqu would make a very slightly better morgan (1 skl/spd) while Virion makes Yarne himself better.

I myself would probably do spd/def Femu x Virion!Yarne and marry the Morgan to a Sumia!Lucina they'll have tons of options for 100% DS and 75 speed setups (Morgan will hit 75 in any 40+ base speed class with just the base pairup of +3).

Edited February 20, 2015 by ckc22

[Ownagepuffs]

FeMU x Chrom stomps main game, apotheosis, and streetpass harder than anyone else.

FeMU x Chrom is overrated. Like, really.

Main game is Nosferatu stomp until Grima, which is independent of gender, Streetpass is streetpass, and Apotheosis can be consistently cleared with a Male MU.

Even L+ seems to get by with a male MU.

[Vascela]

FeMU x Chrom is overrated. Like, really.

Main game is Nosferatu stomp until Grima, which is independent of gender, Streetpass is streetpass, and Apotheosis can be consistently cleared with a Male MU.

Even L+ seems to get by with a male MU.

You call it overrated, but that's like calling Final Fantasy 7 or Ocarina of Time overrated. There still the best lol. You are free not to like something, don't get me wrong about that. Go ahead and don't like it/don't use it.

FeMU is a hard 10% dual strike better than MaMU. Just because it's independent of gender doesn't mean FeMU is suddenly worse. Streetpass is streetpass, I won't argue against that. And the only difference between MaMU and FeMU for apo is that MaMU relies on more assumptions/variables (Lucina, for example).

[zoned out]

Thanks for the response! I've been going back through the thread to find advice on other pairings and I'm seeing that Frederick would be a good alt for Inigo then and that and that Henry!Nah and Lon'qu!Severa might not be that bad.

So this leads me to the following pairings.

SPD/DEF Avatar x Virion!Yarne

Chrom!Cynthia x Virion!Yarne!Morgan

Sumia!Lucina

Gaius!Kjelle

Donnel!Noire

Henry!Nah

Lon'qu!Severa

Frederick!Inigo

I still need help on determining who should father Owain, Brady, Gerome, and Laurent. Help with child pairings would also be very helpful.

Also, I'm guessing Virion!Yarne's best class is still going to be Berserker. Tbh, I rarely used Yarne back in the day so I'm having trouble thinking of a skillset. LimitBreaker/Aggressor/Axefaire/?/? is what I have right now.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Wow, this kind of exploded while I was gone.

I've seen some guy run a single-pair Apo run with Chromatar, so it does have its advantage. But apart for 100% FeMU DS, it doesn't offer much.

Since we all know that you can beat Apo with one pair really everything in this thread is pointless if you're really min/maxing.

That's Normal Apo, not Secret, and there's a big difference- I've beaten Normal with nothing but an unpaired completely base level Chrom before with no chance of death until wave 5. The absence of Counter, Luna+, and fast enemies makes it completely possible to tank conventionally. This thread has never been about Normal.

Secret Apo remains to be done with anything less than three units because of the turn limits. If they weren't around, everything could be hit and ran with good RNG, but it just ain't so (incidentally, I've got a strategy that can clear Wave 0 with two units with about 3.4% success, but haven't routed it past that, using Chrom and Avatar!Lucina). If any of you think it can be done all the way and have methods to prove it, please tell.

Can't decide betweenVaike and Henry for Nah. I feel that Vaike might be a better choice in the long run but I also prefer Henry!Nah's hair color to Vaike!Nah. It's a cosmetic thing but I'm not sure if that will screw Nah over if I go that route.

Severa will either get Lon'qu or Ricken for her. Lon'qu does give her that speed, but Ricken gives her better skills. I'm leaning towards Lon'qu!Severa though because of that hair color again.

For Owain I'm thinking Henry might get better use here. I've heard Stahl or Libra might also be good here but again I can't decide.

I can't think of anything for Gerome, Brady, or Laurent. Any help here would be appreciated

The biggest pairing issue I'm having is for my Avatar. I want to have a male child this time around and I'm torn between Inigo and MaMorgan. If I go MaAvatar and marry Olivia, I get two Morgans but if I go FeAvatar I plan to marry 2nd gen and most likely will go for Virion!Yarne!Morgan. But I've also heard that Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan is better for producing a god Morgan.

Also, kind of unrelated but what asset and flaw would be best for both of these scenarios? I'm thinking +SPD -DEF for Inigo and +SKL -DEF for Morgan.

All of those new pairs are much better (except for Donnel!Noire, but the improvement in Kjelle is worth it). A lot of your old pairs were pretty bad, honestly.

Both Vaike and Henry work well on Nah, though I tend to prefer Henry. They're roughly equal in effectiveness, Henry!Nah only has more things she can be effective at.

Lon'qu!Severa is far better than Ricken!Severa. Ricken!Severa is basically Cynthia with inferior mods and skills. If you go with Lon'qu, she has very high synergy with that Yarne.

If you don't want to reuse Ricken!Owain (who actually is very good), Libra is probably best. Henry!Owain is very good, but Henry is also in quite high demand so I wouldn't use him here. Stahl!Owain is primarily good if you're interested in more than Apo, due to being an incredibly versatile jack of all trades, but he lacks a bit of raw power.

Gerome will want Stahl if he's not busy elsewhere, though Vaike, Gregor and Henry all work nicely too.

Male children don't put Avatar's skillset to as good of use as females, FYI. They don't have room to run a procstack, and as such Avatar's primary contribution (Ignis) goes to waste. Olivia isn't at the bottom of the spectrum for useful wives, though, so she could still work out if you know who you want to bench (I'd advise Donnel!Noire. She stinks).

FeMU x Chrom is overrated. Like, really.

Main game is Nosferatu stomp until Grima, which is independent of gender, Streetpass is streetpass, and Apotheosis can be consistently cleared with a Male MU.

Even L+ seems to get by with a male MU.

Thank you.

FeMU is a hard 10% dual strike better than MaMU. Just because it's independent of gender doesn't mean FeMU is suddenly worse. Streetpass is streetpass, I won't argue against that. And the only difference between MaMU and FeMU for apo is that MaMU relies on more assumptions/variables (Lucina, for example).

Only if you're doing an Avatar/Chrom solo (in which case Avatar-F really is superior). Avatar-M uses different strats for Lunatic+ (Chrom x Sumia and Avatar x Cordelia, four GF passdowns -> 6 GF units, which allows you to stop turtling and play offensively for the rest of the game). I'm not going to say one strat is superior to the other but they're definitely more different than 10% DS.

Apo though does have a difference, and it's in Avatar-M's favor. The way Apo pairs are set up, there is one role for females (lead- even Nah does this), and two for males: hard support and Galeforce support. Female leads always get their LB/GF/proc/proc/Faire setup (except Nah, who can do whatever she wants). Males always get their LB/Agg/Faire, and then either proc/GF for GF supports or +Hit/Atk skills for hard supports.

In cases where the male is a GF support, the pair will be getting three KOes per turn. The female will be getting the last one, but the first two can be in any order, making it easy to give the male the weaker target, thus making their combat stats not matter as much (basically, they'll never be fighting bosses). Add this to the fact that most female lead classes boost Spd, and Spd becomes a pretty much irrelevant stat for Galeboys- and even more so for hard support males.

So let's look at Morgan and Avatar's stats, assuming a +Spd/-Def spread. If we're using Avatar-F, we get a lead with 4 Spd and a Galeboy with 5+. The most relevant of these stats will be 4. If we use Avatar-M, we get a hard support with 4 (doesn't matter) and a lead with 5+. The most relevant of these is now 5+ (10 for Lon'qu!Severa!Morgan, 9 for Sumia!Lucina!Morgan and Chrom!Cynthia!Morgan) which is a pretty big improvement in the total relevant Spd on the map.

But what about Avatar-F giving one more Galeforce? First, that doesn't increase the number of total Galepairs you have, it boosts one single pair to a double pair, which is not as significant- pairs get dropped for having no GF, not for only having one. Second, how often do you actually have all of your pairs use all their attacks in one turn? I can almost guarantee it's less than 50% of the time, because with a full team the amount of enemies per wave is not a multiple of your attacks per turn. Basically, it doesn't matter.