PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Vanilluxe]

Edited July 15, 2015 by Vanilluxe

[Kamui vi Britannia]

Is Stahl!Gerome sufficent in Apo Hard?I was thinking about switching my pairings around:

Vaike!Severa

Gregor!Nah

Kellam!Laurent(I read Miriel's and Kellam's supports okay,I know it is not as good as other pairings)

So then after this switch Stahl was lef and I don't want to waste a good father and then Gerome has no dad so I thought 'what would these to be like?'.If they are not optimal I will go back to my original Stahl!Severa Gregor!Gerome Vaike!Nah set-up.

Apo is not as hard as you think, most of the talk of its difficult comes from the time where we didn't know what worked or not, keep in mind that you have actually have planned for this.

You're revised pairings are more than fine: Gerome gets trades a bit of power for a ton of accuracy, Nah can now run a Valkyrie set, and Severa makes a great Axefaire hero.

Edited February 8, 2015 by CloudJumper

[Azz]

Apo is not as hard as you think, most of the talk of its difficult comes from the time where we didn't know what worked or not, keep in mind that you have actually have planned for this.

You're revised pairings are more than fine: Gerome gets trades a bit of power for a ton of accuracy, Nah can now run a Valkyrie set, and Severa makes a great Axefaire hero.

Thank you for the assistance.

EDIT:My friend was wondering what his pairs were like.He recently got really into the game and is now understanding the pairing and inheritance part of the game,I also helped him a bit.His parings:

Chrom x Sumia

Lissa x Ricken

Olivia x Stahl

Maribelle x Virion

Sully x Gaius

Cordelia x Vaike

Cherche x Frederick

Robin x Tharja

Panne x Lon'qu

Miriel x Gregor

Nowi x Donnel

Edited February 8, 2015 by Azz01

[Czar_Yoshi]

Is Stahl!Gerome sufficent in Apo Hard?I was thinking about switching my pairings around:

There'll be a few things he and Severa can't do that other Severas can, but overall he's pretty good. You'll likely want to use an Axefaire Hero x Bowfaire Warrior for them.

Actually, will it even be possible to train spotpass units on Lunatic+?

You can always just train them in other files, add them to the Logbook and then recruit them in your Lunatic+ file if you have trouble raising them there. But most of the units who have something special to make them worth training already come with good enough bases to get off the ground even postgame.

EDIT:My friend was wondering what his pairs were like.He recently got really into the game and is now understanding the pairing and inheritance part of the game,I also helped him a bit.His parings:

Fred!Gerome has no redeeming qualities postgame and quite likely has the least complete skillset of any child in the game, including various Nahs. Avatar x Tharja is a large waste of potential on Avatar as well, due to him missing out on having a wife. Panne x Lon'qu has a lot of advantages, but you need to have Avatar-F marry him to put them to any use- otherwise he's just a very fast hard support who never gets to use his Spd. Finally, I notice a conspicuous lack of Henry which is odd as he's one of the best fathers in the game. You should probably replace Donnel with him as he'll give Nah far more ingame utility and she'll be benched for Apo anyway using a 2nd gen Morgan.

[Diabeasty]

Here you go:

Sumia x Chrom

Sumia!Lucina@Falco (LB/GF/LF/DS+/Charm) x Libra!Owain@Berserker (LB/Agg/AF/All+2/Hex)

Henry!Inigo@Assassin (LB/All+2/GF/Agg/SF) x Fred!Noire@Sniper-B (LB/BF/All+2/Defender/Skl+2)

Gaius!Kjelle@Assassin-B (LB/All+2/GF/SF/Defender) x Vaike!Yarne@Hero (LB/Agg/All+2/Str+2/AF)

Chrom!Cynthia@Falco (LB/All+2/Defender/GF/LF) x +Skl/-Def Avatar-M@Sniper (LB/Agg/BF/All+2/Skl+2)

Lon'qu!Brady@Assassin (LB/Agg/All+2/GF/SF) x Stahl!Nah@Sniper (LB/BF/All+2/Deliverer/Skl+2)

Virion!Severa@Sniper (LB/GF/All+2/Deliverer/BF) x Gregor!Laurent@Assassin (LB/Agg/SF/All+2/AT)

Morgan@Falco (LB/All+2/Defender/GF/LF) x Ricken!Gerome@Sniper (LB/Agg/BF/All+2/Skl+2)

Palla@Falco (Spc/Hrt/Skl/Mov/Str)

Catria@Falco (Spc/Hrt/Skl/Mov/Def)

Est@Falco (Spc/Hrt/Skl/Mov/Spd)

Katarina@Valkyrie (LB/GF/TF/SG/All+2)

I'm still tweaking some sets, mostly Katarina, Lucina/Owain and Chrom/Sumia. Lucina and Owain are being set up for a perfect kill on Thronie, I haven't figured out what I'll be doing with Chrom and Sumia yet (likely killing Invincisorc on EP) and Katarina will be for Mire chip and I need to figure out the maximum amount of boosts she needs for that (the rest go into +Mov). Vaike!Yarne also might see a possible Str+2 swap for Tantivity or Axebreaker, but it's not likely.

Thanks! My pairings look something like this at the moment. I don't really have final classes currently because I'm building this team around being able to run a lot of different sets.

Avatar (+SKL/-DEF) x Sumia!Lucina

Libra!Inigo x Chrom!Cynthia

Lon'Qu!Brady x Kellam!Noire

Ricken!Owain x Vaike!Nah

Stahl!Yarne x Gaius!Kjelle

Gregor!Laurent x Virion!Severa

Henry!Gerome x Lucina!Morgan

I'm pretty sure the only pairing here that can't reach 100% DS is Owain and Nah. If there's anything I could swap around that might give me some better results, let me know.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Well, the big one is that Lucina can instantly get anyone to 100%, so she'll want to go to someone who has bad Skl to begin with- either Owain or Gerome. Gerome has a lot more room to take a high Skl father while still being good (or to take Morgan without wasting her incredible Skl stat), so I opted to get both one of the two lowest Skl males and the worst DS-boosting father out of the way at the same time in a pair with a lot of non-100% utility. After that you just have to prioritize getting the lower Skl units (Gerome, Nah, Noire- Noire has base SNiper to make this easier) the best fathers and the best spouses, and 100% falls into place. From there, tinker around and move things to try to get the most out of your team that you can- it's a lot easier to get a versatile 100% team if you start with 100% and tinker for versatility than if you start with versatility and tinker for 100%. Once you have a decent idea of what each unit needs to work, you can start assembling more conventional pairs- I even managed to get Virion, the best DS-boosting father in the game, for Severa while securing her a +Hit Berserker husband.

Also, one other possible quick fix: swap Vaike and Stahl. While Yarne's class pool will stink, he can still hit 100% DS as a Hero and (I think) give Kjelle a guaranteed 6HKO on Wave 5's Berserkers, letting her take both down herself in one turn. Nah, meanwhile, will gain Skl+2, Sniper and Defender- they'll still be 2 Skl away from 100% but that's closer than 5 and would make it easier for you to swap something else around to get them to 100%.

[Ownagepuffs]

Fred!Gerome has no redeeming qualities postgame and quite likely has the least complete skillset of any child in the game, including various Nahs.

Fred!Gerome is pretty bad post game but Fred is the Pally with the least investment that can marry Cherche since Stahl is somewhat hard to raise. It's a good in game pair, for the parents at least.

It still blows post game though, don't get me wrong.

[HeoandReo]

Not sure if this got lost in the shuffle from a few pages back. What I have now is Henry!Brady, Vaike!Nah and Gregor!Gerome. Brady and Nah are marrying as a Sage/Hero combo, and Gerome is going to Noire. I'm considering swapping the fathers around for Gregor!Brady, Henry!Nah and Vaike!Gerome, and am a little curious as to what I would end up doing.

If I decide to use Henry!Nah over Vaike!Nah as a partner for Gregor!Brady, what are her main roles and what skill should be passed down?

I know that Henry!Nah makes a really good Valkyrie - what I'm interested in seeing if there are other things that I could do with her on occasion.

[Kamui vi Britannia]

Her main one is LB/TF/Vengeance and either a mix of Auras and +Mov skills or Anathema and Wrath, with an optional Focus over TF (all as a Valkyrie).

She can also get Axefaire and some Auras to make a nice Wyvern Lord, if you want.

I use Anathema/Hex/All+2/Axefaire/LB.

Edited February 9, 2015 by CloudJumper

[Czar_Yoshi]

I know that Henry!Nah makes a really good Valkyrie - what I'm interested in seeing if there are other things that I could do with her on occasion.

She's kind of mix-and-match. You just throw whatever skills on her that would compliment your team most. Her two best classes are Valkyrie and Wyvern Lord. LB is obvious for each. Various other skills that each can find useful:

-Vengeance. Just because she has no GF doesn't mean she'll never be up front- giving her the second kill gives rear Agg bonuses, and this gives her a proc for that. She'll have a harder time setting it up than GF users, but it's still sometimes useful.

-Deliverer. Useful because she'll often be ending up front.

-Auras. Better on Wyverns because physical units appreciate the +Hit more and are more likely to fight at 1 range. Choose one or both (of the DM ones) depending on what she needs to do.

-*Faire. Obvious.

-Wrath/Focus. For critstacking. Best on Valkyries.

She doesn't have a definitive skillset, but here's an example of what she might look like:

Valkyrie@3/15 Katarina's (LB/Wrath/Focus/Anathema/Vengeance)

When under 50% HP, this gives her 115 crit in the back, which amounts to 60% on most S.Apo mooks. That in turn gives a much higher average damage output than Celica's- over two hits you've got an 84% chance to get at least one crit. One normal hit + one crit gives the same damage as four normal hits, so you've only got a 16% chance to do less than CG (barring DS failures, but those affect both equally) and a 36% chance to do 150% as much as a CG. The lack of TF and +Mag skills is balanced by Katarina's higher base mt. Since Nah will already be set up for Wrath, she'll get a hefty Vengeance boost up front too, which can also be boosted by crits (her crit will be at 70% as well due to support boosts when leading).

And a sample physical set:

Wyvern Lord@5/15 B.Axe (LB/AF/Hex/Anathema/Deliverer)

Somewhat self-explanatory utility set. Good DS power, ferry utility and lets her provide accuracy support to a unit like Libra!Inigo who can run Berserker in the lead but is frustrated by not having room for both a proc and a +Hit skill. Also note that Libra!Inigo can go either physical, magical or mixed, just like Henry!Nah- so they can switch between several different sets.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[HeoandReo]

Thanks you two. I knew about TF Valkyrie support but got kind of stuck otherwise. The crit build actually looks pretty interesting - definitely a nice change of pace from using Braves. It'd be good for Brady assuming he goes Sage, and with Gregor's mods Brady could actually kind of pull a physical set as a Hero or Assassin from time to time with Wyvern support, which is also better than I remembered.

Axefaire Hero is still really tempting because it offers both a little more speed and skill for Dual Strike purposes, (and Henry!Nah means no Tomefaire Mire for Brady for some maps) but the DS rate might not be super significant in the long run, Brady already has Luna to work with so can afford to lose Vengeance and while Brady just misses 75 speed iirc with Valk instead of Hero, I have a bunch of units who can do it in other good classes. If Brady can't hit it, it's probably not a big deal. (And he can do it anyway if he runs Defender, but that might just be too much effort)

I'll still have to think about it but now that I know more about what Nah can do, it's definitely considerable.

Also one last question - who to best use the Boots on? Lucina will probably get one since she'll be in classes with 6 move, (Sage, sometimes Sniper) lacks Deliverer and paired with Owain will likely be my main mixed/magic attacker. Lucina could go Dark Flier too, but that's not going to be her main class and as part of a magical double GF pair she'd benefit the most. Second one I'm thinking of is either Morgan or Kjelle, as Sniper or Assassin/Wyvern respectively. If Kjelle specializes in Wyvern with only sometimes Assassin then Morgan could get the Boots, but if Kjelle benefits a lot more from them she might be a contender.

Edited February 9, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Czar_Yoshi]

Gregor!Brady has a Str mod of 0. Compared to some of the other units that are commonly physical (Libra!Inigo's +1, Chrom and Sumia's children's 0, Gaius!Kjelle's +1, etc) that's actually kind of normal. Don't be afraid to give him a physical build if you like.

[HeoandReo]

Gregor!Brady has a Str mod of 0. Compared to some of the other units that are commonly physical (Libra!Inigo's +1, Chrom and Sumia's children's 0, Gaius!Kjelle's +1, etc) that's actually kind of normal. Don't be afraid to give him a physical build if you like.

I've done that a few times before. Usually as a War Monk for Armsthrift Axefaire Bolt/Brave Axe shenanigans. Not gonna be his main niche if I do it but it's something nice to goof off with on some maps.

[Ownagepuffs]

Olivia should get the boots.

[Kamui vi Britannia]

I agree with Ownage: between the boots and rallies, it is possible to get Olivia up to 9 mov which is too good to pass up.

Edited February 9, 2015 by CloudJumper

[bodybagfor8bucks]

...Kjelle would have Myrmidon overlap from Gaius and Noire doesn't, so by giving Gaius to Noire she gets the option to procstack Luna/Astra.

This is an old post from page 67 but I was wondering if someone can explain what procstacking is. I know skills like Astra luna sol etc can't activate on the same strike.

Also, To make 100% DS pairs, what is the minimum raw combined skill, before skills and bonuses (including LB), the pair must have? I calculated it to be 105. A pair needs 160 skill right? So 160 -20 (LB twice) - 20 (rally) - 7 (pair up bonus*) - 4 (All+2 twice) - 4 (skl tonics)= 105. *I assumed that the pair ill use will have a class that gives bonuses in skill like sniper (+7), sage (+8), and assassin (+7). Is there anything else I may have missed in my calculations?

[HeoandReo]

This is an old post from page 67 but I was wondering if someone can explain what procstacking is. I know skills like Astra luna sol etc can't activate on the same strike.

Also, To make 100% DS pairs, what is the minimum raw combined skill, before skills and bonuses (including LB), the pair must have? I calculated it to be 105. A pair needs 160 skill right? So 160 -20 (LB twice) - 20 (rally) - 7 (pair up bonus*) - 4 (All+2 twice) - 4 (skl tonics)= 105. *I assumed that the pair ill use will have a class that gives bonuses in skill like sniper (+7), sage (+8), and assassin (+7). Is there anything else I may have missed in my calculations?

I'm pretty sure that procstacking involves if you running multiple procs, you have a chance to activate other ones based on their priority. The order according to Serenes is Lethality > Aether > Astra > Sol > Luna > Ignis > Vengeance. Basically, what occurs is if one proc doesn't activate, there is a chance that the other one will.

Say you're running a capped Sniper Sumia!Lucina with Aether/Luna and no extra skills or pairup, just as an example.

Sumia!Lucina Sniper: 52 Skill

Aether = Skill/2 = 52/2 = 26%

Luna = Skill = 52%

Since Aether has higher priority, the calculation for it to activate will be done first, which is 26%. However, if it fails to activate, iirc what happens is that the game also sees if there is a chance to activate Luna based on Aether failing, since Luna is lower than Aether on the priority list. The chance for Luna to activate is based on what is left after Aether fails to activate. It's a little complicated to explain, but I think it goes like this:

Aether: 26%

Luna: (100-26) x .52 = 74(.52) = 38%

Nothing: (100-26-38) = 36%

64% chance to activate something, anything

Procstacking makes for a viable strategy because you don't have to rely on a single activation amount for a single proc, and the activation for multiples can often surpass a single proc unless that proc's name is Vengeance.

[Czar_Yoshi]

This is an old post from page 67 but I was wondering if someone can explain what procstacking is. I know skills like Astra luna sol etc can't activate on the same strike.

Also, To make 100% DS pairs, what is the minimum raw combined skill, before skills and bonuses (including LB), the pair must have? I calculated it to be 105. A pair needs 160 skill right? So 160 -20 (LB twice) - 20 (rally) - 7 (pair up bonus*) - 4 (All+2 twice) - 4 (skl tonics)= 105. *I assumed that the pair ill use will have a class that gives bonuses in skill like sniper (+7), sage (+8), and assassin (+7). Is there anything else I may have missed in my calculations?

Trying to shave anything off that 160 threshold will give you errors. It's easy to say things like, "Everybody gets LB/Rally already so I don't have to include them..." but eventually you'll forget what you've included and what you haven't, or you won't be including the same things as other users and they won't know what you're talking about, etc. Thus, the minimum combined Skl is 160.

Sage and Assassin give +7 and Sniper gives +8, by the way.

The one simplification you can (and should) make, though, is to treat a class's pairup boosts as part of its own stats. Even though your support Sniper isn't actually seeing the +8 Skl that's showing up on your lead Hero, changing the support changes the pairup boosts, not the lead. So it's useful to thing about classes (and units in general) as separate lead and support values: a Sniper would be 48/56, for example.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Diabeasty]

Well, the big one is that Lucina can instantly get anyone to 100%, so she'll want to go to someone who has bad Skl to begin with- either Owain or Gerome. Gerome has a lot more room to take a high Skl father while still being good (or to take Morgan without wasting her incredible Skl stat), so I opted to get both one of the two lowest Skl males and the worst DS-boosting father out of the way at the same time in a pair with a lot of non-100% utility. After that you just have to prioritize getting the lower Skl units (Gerome, Nah, Noire- Noire has base SNiper to make this easier) the best fathers and the best spouses, and 100% falls into place. From there, tinker around and move things to try to get the most out of your team that you can- it's a lot easier to get a versatile 100% team if you start with 100% and tinker for versatility than if you start with versatility and tinker for 100%. Once you have a decent idea of what each unit needs to work, you can start assembling more conventional pairs- I even managed to get Virion, the best DS-boosting father in the game, for Severa while securing her a +Hit Berserker husband.

Also, one other possible quick fix: swap Vaike and Stahl. While Yarne's class pool will stink, he can still hit 100% DS as a Hero and (I think) give Kjelle a guaranteed 6HKO on Wave 5's Berserkers, letting her take both down herself in one turn. Nah, meanwhile, will gain Skl+2, Sniper and Defender- they'll still be 2 Skl away from 100% but that's closer than 5 and would make it easier for you to swap something else around to get them to 100%.

Are Vaike!Yarne's hitrates as a berserker a problem in your experience? That's the only thing I'm really worried about.

[Ownagepuffs]

I'll do a calc for you.

Vaike!Yarne as a Zerker lacks both Hit +20 and Hexathema.

Vaike!Yarne @ Zerker w/ AS + 2, LB, Axefaire, Aggressor, filler

39 Skl (base + mods) + 2 (Tonic) + 2 (AS+2) + 10 (Rallies) + 10 (LB) = 63

44 lck (base + mods) + 2 (tonic) + 2 (AS +2) + 14 (Rallies) + 10 (LB) = 72

[((63 x 3) + 72))/2] = 131 (assuming rounded up).

+ 10 from A rank WRB + 75 (assuming 5/15 Brave Axe) = 216 Hit.

The general purpose safety benchmark is 220 IIRC so he just skims it. But you have a free slot to use either lucky 7 for +20 Hit within the first 7 turns or Tantivity from Panne to give him +10 hit if no one is within 3 spaces of the pair. Still, it's pretty iffy as both of those are situational compared to the flat +hit he would get from Prescience/Hit +10 or +20. You could also forge the brave axe to 3/25 instead of 5/15 which would put him in the safety benchmark at 226 hit.

If he goes Hero then all of the hit problems disappear.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[Czar_Yoshi]

Quick calcs because I'm in a hurrt. tldr: why would you even want him as a Berserker?

Gaius!Kjelle@Assassin-B@5/15 B.Swd (LB/All+2/GF/SF/Defender) x Vaike!Yarne@Hero@4/20 B.Axe (LB/Agg/All+2/Str+2/AF), Rally Spc/Hrt/Skl/Mov/Str

Kjelle's stats:

Atk: 40(base) +1(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +5(SF) +3(pairup) +2(All+2) +1(Defender) +2(tonic) +17(B.Swd) =91

Spd: 46(base) +5(mods) +10(LB) +6(Rally) +8(pairup) +2(All+2) +1(Defender) +2(tonic) =80

Skl: 48(base) +5(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +8(pairup) +2(All+2) +1(Defender) +2(tonic) =86

Lck: 45(base) -1(mods) +10(LB) +6(Rally) +3(pairup) +2(All+2) +1(Defender) +2(tonic) =68

Hit: 163(base) +95(B.Swd) +15(S support) =273

Yarne's stats:

Atk: 42(base) +6(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +10(Agg) +5(AF) +2(All+2) +2(Str+2) +2(tonic) +17(B.Axe) =106

Skl: 46(base) +4(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) =74

Lck: 45(base) -1(mods) +10(LB) +6(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) =64

Hit: 143(base) +90(B.Axe) =233

DS: 86(Kjelle) +74(Yarne) =100%

VS double Zerker (128 Avo): 14+21+21+14+21+21 =112. 100% chance of KOing before the counterattack even without Rally Str. Kjelle takes 28 damage from Counter, so she can fight both and live.

VS NS (235 Avo): 5+18+18+5+18+18 =82. KOes in 6 hits barring an 0.06% miss from Yarne.

VS Thronie (248 Avo, requires Hex support): 12+19+19+12+19+19 =100. 100% chance of ORKOing before the counterattack.

VS Anna (157 Avo, requires Hex support, Kjelle uses Brave Bow to avoid Counter damage leading to a possible KO with Aether): 14+24+24+14+24 = 100, guaranteed 5HKO.

There might be some small optimizations left by swapping around Str+2, Tantivity/Breakers and the forge, but he can seriously get rid of anything with perfect odds. Berserker is useless next to this.

[feversend]

This is my first attempt at building an actual team. I'm using a MaMu and want to be a grandmaster. +mag/-def? However, everything else I'm clueless about (skills for parents/children).

Olivia x Chrom

MaMu( (Tactician -> Mercenary -> Myrmidon -> Dark Mage -> Sorcerer -> Sage -> Grandmaster))x Nowi

Sully x Donnel

Maribelle x Lon'qu

Tharja x Gaius

Panne x Kellam

Cordelia(Pegasus Knight -> Mercenary -> Bow Knight -> Sorcerer/Falcon Knight -> Falcon Knight/Sorcerer -> Dark Flier.)x Stahl

Sumia (Pegasus Knight -> Dark Flier -> Sage/Great Knight -> Great Knight/Sage -> Dark Flier)x Henry

Cherche x Frederick

Miriel x Gregor

Lissa x Ricken

[Ownagepuffs]

Are you dead set on those pairings or do you just want general advice? Actually, some of those pairings look mighty familiar. Where did you get the idea for them?

[feversend]

Are you dead set on those pairings or do you just want general advice? Actually, some of those pairings look mighty familiar. Where did you get the idea for them?

It was my pairings on my first playthrough so I just stuck with it. Is it common? Rather than being dead set on the pairings, any pairings would do if you could provide me with skill sets for each character if that's not too much of a hassle.

[Azz]

Okay I know it is not optimal since you don't get stuff like good procs and what not but what is a good/decent set-up for Donnel!Nah(Non-Apo)?As I said I know it is not optimal but I have seen many use it recently and really well but they never showed their skill set or class.(Actually they only used Donnel and Nowi,they did not even use Nah).Just wondering cause I want to go for an all GF on all kids(possible obviously).

Another thing,what is a good set up for a Ricken!Nah or Henry!Nah?