PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Byron]

So if I've read the advice correctly, my best pairings are likely to be;

Chrom x Sumia

Donnel x Tharja

Gaius x Sully

Maribelle x Lon'qu

Cordelia x Virion (I can live with blue hair)

Nowi x Henry

Panne x Libra

Frederick x Olivia

Lissa x Stahl

Cherche x Vaike

Ricken x Miriel

My avatar I believe is +Mag -Def so I'm looking at a 2nd tier husband with good Magic mods. Brady or Laurent spring to mind.

Thanks for Joycdonnell and Czar_Yoshi. I feel as if I'm almost there just looking for any last touch ups effectively.

[Czar_Yoshi]

My avatar I believe is +Mag -Def so I'm looking at a 2nd tier husband with good Magic mods. Brady or Laurent spring to mind.

Definitely go with Brady, Morgan will get a +6 Spd mod which is really rare on Galeboys. Give him a Valkyrie Nah support and make him a Dark Knight or something.

[sthbdis]

So these are my pairings so far, and my thoughts for skills for their children. It's not fully fleshed out, so any help (especially what skills specifically they want to get from their parents so that I don't waste too much time,) is appreciated.

I have

Sumia!Lucina-GF/LB/Aether/Luna/DS+or Bowfaire maybe?

Chrom!Cynthia-GF/LB/Aether/Luna/Lancefaire

Stahl!Owain-GF/LB/Agg/Luna/Astra or Faire better here?

Ricken!Laurent-LB/Agg/Tomefaire/Maybe DG+/?

Gaius!Noire-Really not sure on this one. GF/LB/Luna/Bowfaire? is about all I got. Maybe v/v on her, but I prefer not running vengeance because something about making my characters get near death makes me cringe.

Lon'qu!Brady-GF/LB/Agg/Luna/Astra maybe? Or is the Brady too frail to be a front liner making Luna and Astra wasted on him?

Virion!Yarne-LB/Agg/Axefaire/Hit Rate+20 possibly/All Stats+2? Not exactly sure what to do here either

Libra!Inigo-GF/LB/Agg/Axefaire or swordfaire probably/possibly anathema?

Cordelia and Morgan are sisters with GF/LB/Luna/Ignis/Lancefaire

These last three pairings are not set in stone by any means and if any remaining fathers are preferable please let me know.

Vaike!Gerome-LB/Agg/Axefaire/All stats+2?/Lucky Seven?/

Henry!Nah-I feel like with her low speed she probably won't be a front liner. But she could do ok backing up a Galeboy, either physically or magically. Run something like LB/All+2/Either axefaire for a physical or tomefaire for a magical/Lucky 7?/?

And I don't have anything remotely set for Kjelle. The best of the remaining fathers I would say is Gregor, or possibly Donnel. I dislike Donnel though because of the mods and he only passes down Peggie instead of Gregor. And neither way do I see her as a front liner making galeforce practically useless, and I think axefaire is going to be better for her than lancefaire.

So Gregor!Kjelle-LB/Axefaire/All stats+2/DG+?/Armsthrift maybe?

Sorry that that was a lot to read, any help is appreciated.

Edited April 14, 2015 by sthbdis

[isetrh]

Hey, welcome back!

Nothing much has changed in terms of what's being optimized for, we/I've mostly just been looking for ways to get more out of pairs by understanding what they can do better. Generally the focus has been on getting B-tier pairs to perform functionally on par with A-tier ones, because I'd much rather be telling people how to get the most out of pairs they want to use than telling them what pairs to use. At this point the general standards for a top-tier pair are being able to do pretty much anything you could reasonably ask of them in S.Apo (so where before it was you should keep a pair on hand to deal with Anna, now it's make your pairs so that Anna is just another enemy to them). It gives you more in-map leeway to do what you want, whether that's just boring or adds replay value depends on the player. I find it quite nice.

Pair versatility is something I've also started taking into account, which is basically a combination of how many non-Apo postgame top-tier classes/skills they have available, and how many different Apo sets they can run at maximum performance. Was I making my team yet before you left?

Thanks!

The thing about getting B-tier pairs to function as A-tier pairs is new to me. I'll be interested to see how that works as I stick around.

If you're talking about your 100% DS team, you had it pretty much complete when I stopped posting here. Impressive stuff.

If you want your team to do a number of different things, it's best to keep every one of those things in mind when pairing up the children. For example, your Sumia!Lucina!Morgan may be able to be a nice Paladin/Wyvern and Fred!Inigo has Berserker/Hero to support those, but you're missing her opportunity to make use of Valkyrie (which is effectively Morgan-F's personal class) since Inigo won't be running magic.

For some reason I got myself thinking of the Morgan pair as being either magical or physical, but of course it makes sense to be able to do both. I think Libra!Inigo could work well for that. He gets Sage, Vengeance, auras to complement Berserker at the cost of Pally and Wyvern Lord. I like the way the mods work out with +Mag.

Libra!Owain was a stupid idea if I want versatility. Ricken gives him Sniper, Pally, and Hit+20 for Berserker at the cost of a slightly less cool proc. Seems worth it.

From there I could switch Stahl!Yarne and Ricken!Owain to Stahl!Owain and Ricken!Yarne. This would give Yarne Sage in exchange for Swordfaire (nice) and make both boys better at their secondary roles but worse at their primary roles (not nice). Ehh... I think I would rather just make Yarne a Dread Fighter if I decide Severa absolutely must go magical.

Gaius!Kjelle is pretty much the best she can be, I'll focus on the boy here. Vaike!Gerome has a decent number of options: Warrior, Hero, Berserker, and Wyvern Lord. He would like +Hit for the latter two, and in general he would probably prefer Gregor, Henry, or an Archer dad. There's not much I can really do about that without messing up other kids. I don't want to sacrifice too much performance for versatility.

The other pairs look good as-is to me.

Donnel!Noire x Gregor!Laurent

Noire lacks Assassin, but gets AT, whixh she uses better than Kjelle due to Double Bow and a partner who also has AT. She doesn't get procstack either, but she has Vengeance and a great filler skill in AT. Laurent has just about everything he could possibly want. Besides good mods.

Henry!Nah x Lon'qu!Brady

Nah has Valkyrie, critstack, Manakete, and probably other stuff I'm just not thinking of. These aren't a huge number of options, but they are some really fun options. Brady is perfectly equipped to support a Valkyrie, and he also gets a couple extra physical classes from his dad. Lon'qu doesn't do anything to fix Brady's bad strength, but his mods are useful whether Brady is going physical or magical. No auras or Hit+20 to complement Berserker, but those dads are in high demand.

Sumia!Lucina x Avatar

Best pair for either of them without hurting Cynthia. +Mag doesn't mesh so well with classes that aren't Sage, but it still works, and Sage is good.

So these are my pairings so far, and my thoughts for skills for their children. It's not fully fleshed out, so any help (especially what skills specifically they want to get from their parents so that I don't waste too much time,) is appreciated.

I have

Sumia!Lucina-GF/LB/Aether/Luna/DS+or Bowfaire maybe?

Chrom!Cynthia-GF/LB/Aether/Luna/Lancefaire

Stahl!Owain-GF/LB/Agg/Luna/Astra or Faire better here?

I would go with a Faire over a second proc on a unit who will be in the back two thirds of the time, but I don't know if that's still considered optimal.

Ricken!Laurent-LB/Agg/Tomefaire/Maybe DG+/?

Dual Gaurd chances will never be reliable enough to be worthwhile postgame. Reliability is important for anything defensive, because if it doesn't wotk, your unit dies. Maybe Hex or Anathema? There's also All Stats +2. I don't know who his wife is, so maybe that makes a difference.

Gaius!Noire-Really not sure on this one. GF/LB/Luna/Bowfaire? is about all I got. Maybe v/v on her, but I prefer not running vengeance because something about making my characters get near death makes me cringe.

You could do procstack here: LB/GF/faire/Luna/Astra.

Lon'qu!Brady-GF/LB/Agg/Luna/Astra maybe? Or is the Brady too frail to be a front liner making Luna and Astra wasted on him?

If Apo is what you're going for, everyone is fragile and you want to kill the enemy on Player Phase before they can kill you on Enemy Phase. Tomefaire is an alternative option to Astra that works in both front and back, simce he'll likely spend time in both.

Virion!Yarne-LB/Agg/Axefaire/Hit Rate+20 possibly/All Stats+2? Not exactly sure what to do here either

That's a fairly standard Berserker set.

Libra!Inigo-GF/LB/Agg/Axefaire or swordfaire probably/possibly anathema?

No proc? I don't know if you've already made this pair, but if you haven't and you really don't like Vengeance, you could switch to a Luna dad. Vengeance doesn't mean you have to get near death though; it can also function to assure a kill. If your first round of attacks at full health doesn't kill the enemy, your second, Vengeance-boosted round of attacks after the enemy's counter most certainly will.

Cordelia and Morgan are sisters with GF/LB/Luna/Ignis/Lancefaire

These last three pairings are not set in stone by any means and if any remaining fathers are preferable please let me know.

Vaike!Gerome-LB/Agg/Axefaire/All stats+2?/Lucky Seven?/

If you're aiming for Apo, Lucky Seven is only going to work for the first and easiest waves unless you go really fast.

Henry!Nah-I feel like with her low speed she probably won't be a front liner. But she could do ok backing up a Galeboy, either physically or magically. Run something like LB/All+2/Either axefaire for a physical or tomefaire for a magical/Lucky 7?/?

And I don't have anything remotely set for Kjelle. The best of the remaining fathers I would say is Gregor, or possibly Donnel. I dislike Donnel though because of the mods and he only passes down Peggie instead of Gregor. And neither way do I see her as a front liner making galeforce practically useless, and I think axefaire is going to be better for her than lancefaire.

So Gregor!Kjelle-LB/Axefaire/All stats+2/DG+?/Armsthrift maybe?

I'm not sure why you don't want Kjelle as a frontliner. It's something she does well. Even if you don't want her to end the turn in front, she can kill something, activate Galeforce, and then switch to her husband.

Sorry that that was a lot to read, any help is appreciated.

Edited April 14, 2015 by isetrh

[sthbdis]

It's not necessarily that I don't want Kjelle as a front liner. It's just that Donnel, Gregor and Freddy were the only fathers I hadn't paired off yet, and I really hate the mods she gets from Donnel. Well maybe I could do GF/LB/Luna/Lancefaire/Astra? Does that sound ok on Kjelle?

And do you think I would be better off moving Freddy to Inigo? Because no I haven't gotten to S rank with LibraXOliva yet. Which if I do switch that and end up running Donnel!Kjelle, I have Gregor and Libra on the bench. So if either of them fit somewhere else better I could in theory swap them out.

[isetrh]

Donnel's mods are pretty terrible. I can see why you don't like them. Whether you're better off with Donnel or Gregor is a tough question. I know people have used non-GF Kjelle to great effect before, but I don't know exactly how. Maybe Czar_Yoshi could give you some insight; iirc he used Vaike!Kjelle on his 100% DS team. The Donnel!Kjelle set you came up with looks good to me though.

Inigo can definitely enjoy a Vengeance dad, and Libra is one of the contenders for Inigo's best dad. If you don't want Vengeance on him though, he probably should have a Luna dad. Fred is a great Luna dad for Inigo who no one else wants.

Libra is kind of a meh dad if you don't like Vengeance. I'm not seeing any other kids who want him. Gregor works great for Laurent, but you've already figured out Laurent's pair. I don't know that there's anyone else who really wants him.

Disregard this if you like Noire or have already paired Tharja with Gaius, but you could sandbag Noire and do Gaius!Kjelle. Since you're marrying Cordelia, one of the girls will go unpaired, and Noire is stats-and-skills-wise a pretty good candidate for that girl.

[sthbdis]

Ok, ya I really can't stand Tharja so I may just forego wasting Gaius on her and put him with Sully instead. And just marry someone to Tharja because I can't just leave someone having not been recruited.

[Czar_Yoshi]

+Mag doesn't mesh so well with classes that aren't Sage

Oh, maybe the +5 Mag mod doesn't... But the resulting +7 Spd sure does. With it, you can hit 75 Spd as a Valkyrie with any pairup and no All+2, as a Wyvern with a Berserker pairup and no All+2, as a Dark Knight with a Dread Fighter pairup and no All+2... And not needing All+2 is significant because then you've got room for a procstack+Faire, something Aether Morgan really wants to do. You won't even need your Mag mod with all that power.

Brady doesn't have Berserker, but if he did Nah would have Auras for him, so he wouldn't need them himself.

Maybe Czar_Yoshi could give you some insight; iirc he used Vaike!Kjelle on his 100% DS team.

Gaius!Kjelle x Vaike!Yarne (my strongest pair, actually). Noire was the one I left GF-less (she got Fred). Other good non-GF Noire options for her include Vaike, Ricken, Virion and Gregor.

[isetrh]

Oh, maybe the +5 Mag mod doesn't... But the resulting +7 Spd sure does. With it, you can hit 75 Spd as a Valkyrie with any pairup and no All+2, as a Wyvern with a Berserker pairup and no All+2, as a Dark Knight with a Dread Fighter pairup and no All+2... And not needing All+2 is significant because then you've got room for a procstack+Faire, something Aether Morgan really wants to do. You won't even need your Mag mod with all that power.

I didn't say that very clearly. I know Morgan likes it. It's Avatar who doesn't benefit much from it unless he's a Sage. You did show me how Morgan is even better with it than I thought though, so thanks.

Brady doesn't have Berserker, but if he did Nah would have Auras for him, so he wouldn't need them himself.

Gaius!Kjelle x Vaike!Yarne (my strongest pair, actually). Noire was the one I left GF-less (she got Fred). Other good non-GF Noire options for her include Vaike, Ricken, Virion and Gregor.

Ah, my bad.

Edited April 14, 2015 by isetrh

[sthbdis]

So, update.

Gaius!Kjelle-GF/LB/Luna/Sword or lancefaire/Astra or all+2

Fred!Inigo-GF/LB/Luna/Agg/Axefaire

Gregor!Noire-LB/Luna/Bowfaire/Astra/maybe anathema?

[Ike's True Descendant]

Hello, I was redirected to post this here so:

I wanted to see what others though were the best power couples for a lunatic run. I know that everyone thinks Galeforce is king but, I am looking for the best power couples for everone so that every child has their strongest potenial. If you think you have the best Power Couples list please psot below so we can share our thoughs.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Anyone who thinks their pairs are the "best" is automatically wrong. There are no best pairs. There are a bunch that are better than others, though.

Avatar x Lucina > Cynthia/Severa/Kjelle > Sumia/Cordelia/Aversa

Chrom x Sumia/Maribelle/Olivia

Lissa x Stahl/Ricken/Libra/Henry

Sully x Gaius/Donnel

Miriel x Lon'qu/Ricken/Gregor

Sumia x Chrom/Henry

Maribelle x Virion/Lon'qu/Ricken/Libra/Henry

Panne x Fred/Virion/Vaike/Stahl/Libra/Henry

Cordelia x Virion/Vaike/Stahl/Lon'qu/Ricken

Nowi x Vaike/Stahl/Ricken/Gregor/Henry

Tharja x Gaius/Donnel

Olivia x Chrom/Fred/Stahl/Ricken/Libra/Henry

Cherche x Virion/Vaike/Stahl/Ricken/Gregor/Henry

^General purpose cookie-cutter pairings. Want something more specific? I'll need a base to build it off of. Anything Goes is a bit too broad.

[Ike's True Descendant]

Anyone who thinks their pairs are the "best" is automatically wrong. There are no best pairs. There are a bunch that are better than others, though.

Avatar x Lucina > Cynthia/Severa/Kjelle > Sumia/Cordelia/Aversa

Chrom x Sumia/Maribelle/Olivia

Lissa x Stahl/Ricken/Libra/Henry

Sully x Gaius/Donnel

Miriel x Lon'qu/Ricken/Gregor

Sumia x Chrom/Henry

Maribelle x Virion/Lon'qu/Ricken/Libra/Henry

Panne x Fred/Virion/Vaike/Stahl/Libra/Henry

Cordelia x Virion/Vaike/Stahl/Lon'qu/Ricken

Nowi x Vaike/Stahl/Ricken/Gregor/Henry

Tharja x Gaius/Donnel

Olivia x Chrom/Fred/Stahl/Ricken/Libra/Henry

Cherche x Virion/Vaike/Stahl/Ricken/Gregor/Henry

^General purpose cookie-cutter pairings. Want something more specific? I'll need a base to build it off of. Anything Goes is a bit too broad.

Well let me repharse the question- I was looking for pairings where every child had a good pairings so that every child could play to their strong points. I know that some are considered to be suport based children but, everyone has strong points they can play off of. I am looking for suggestions where I can play to all of their strong points. Sorry i understand why you said their is not Best combo. This is true the Best is in the eye of the beholder.

[isetrh]

Hello, I was redirected to post this here so:

I wanted to see what others though were the best power couples for a lunatic run. I know that everyone thinks Galeforce is king but, I am looking for the best power couples for everone so that every child has their strongest potenial. If you think you have the best Power Couples list please psot below so we can share our thoughs.

Chrom and Lucina

Sumia is pretty great. She's the best partner for Chrom in terms of maximizing his combat potential (which is good because Dual Strike+ puts him leagues ahead of other non-Avatar gen 1 males), due to Galeforce, Tomefaire, and Luna. Cynthia benefits more than any other second Chrom child, because she gets Aether. Archer and to some degree Cavalier are cool too. Lucina gets nice Speed and Skill that will benefit her in whatever class she might be in, as well as Tomefaire and Lancefaire.

Sumia!Lucina should be fine with any boy depending on what you want her to do. The male Avatar is a popular pair for her though, producing a hax Morgan while giving the best lead one of the best supports. Actually, it might not be as common as it used to be. Who knows.

Owain

Physical/mix: Stahl

Magic Luna: Ricken

Magic Vengeance: Henry or Libra

Owain is better physical than magical due to his mods. He can do physical though, and Stahl works. For magic, you can choose based on the proc you want. Henry gives slightly better stats than Libra.

Kjelle

Donnel or Gaius. Gaius gives great stats that put her on par with Severa, but sometimes she ends up with Donnel instead because Noire can be argued to benefit more from Gaius than Kjelle does due to Astra.

Laurent

Gregor isn't the best in terms of mods, but in every other way he gives Laurent everything he could possibly want. Ricken gives the best Magic stat. Laurent isn't too picky.

Cynthia

Chrom, ideally. Henry works. He's in high demand though.

Brady

He has everything he needs, so his father should give him something extra. Skills you want, or mods. What he wants depends on what you want.

I'm going to stop here since Czar_Yoshi already did his post, and it seems like as I go farther into the game, the question of who each mother wants gets murkier. The last simple one might be Noire, who has similar wants to Kjelle (Galeforce) but is generally worse overall.

Edited April 15, 2015 by isetrh

[Czar_Yoshi]

Well let me repharse the question- I was looking for pairings where every child had a good pairings so that every child could play to their strong points.

That's what I gave you though. All those pairings I listed can run complete sets without throwing any other children under the bus.

[Vascela]

To put it bluntly, he would be lying if anyone were to claim that there is an absolute best--because there isn't. If he had something more to work with (such as you really wanted X unit to fill Y role) or even something as I just like "X" what's the best way to maximize my worth of it?, then we can work from there. Then we know a little more about you. Because that's what's important. You.

Teetering around the word best is silly because the best pairings are your favorite ones. And the worst pairings are the ones people hand out expecting them to be better.

[Joycdonnell]

Looks solid. You might want to consider throwing in a Sniper somewhere (60 Spd isn't as important on them) for Longbowing bosses, but other than that I think you should just make it and see how it works.

Good! Thanks for all your help Czar_Yoshi! : D (now can finally stop seeing the support's orange icon lol)

btw, is there a dedicate thread where can ask about apotheosis stuff? I have right now a question about the forges (I guess that I should max Hit first and then the rest on Mt) and technically is not about pairings anymore (to post my future questions related to apo on that thread if exist).

[isetrh]

Good! Thanks for all your help Czar_Yoshi! : D (now can finally stop seeing the support's orange icon lol)

btw, is there a dedicate thread where can ask about apotheosis stuff? I have right now a question about the forges (I guess that I should max Hit first and then the rest on Mt) and technically is not about pairings anymore (to post my future questions related to apo on that thread if exist).

This thread is the place to ask about anything related to postgame optimization. There's also http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33640&page=293#entry3659704 for any Awakening questions you don't want to ask here, unless it's a necro now.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I think that thread is exempt from necro status, but it's also been used more for random questions about mechanics/story/whatever.

This thread is pretty much the Apo thread, though.

[bodybagfor8bucks]

I'm in the process of pairing up the children now and have 4 units left henry!Owain, donnel!Noire, LQ!Brady and chrom!Cynthia. Who should owain be paired up with in this case? I would prefer to stay away from a dark flier & sage pair. I thought maybe he could be a sorc to mire snipe in apo and make him a dread fighter for skrims. I do not know who, Cynthia or noire, would have better synergy and be more versatile with owain.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Mire sniping doesn't really do anything in Apo. You'll be looking at 10-20 damage tops and there's the constant threat of forgetting to re-equip your Brave if part of a double Galepair. Very few enemies actually benefit from poking outside challenge runs at that, and Snipers are way better at the job for those who do.

Anyway I'd put him with Noire. Brady's got a decent Spd mod and would enjoy Cynthia's +Spd bonus more.

[isetrh]

I'm not sure who to give the Boots to. One pair will probably go to Olivia, but I don't know for the other.

My pairings are:

Sumia x Chrom

Sumia!Lucina x +Mag -Def Avatar

Sumia!Lucina!Morgan x Libra!Inigo

Gaius!Kjelle x Vaike!Gerome

Chrom!Cynthia x Ricken!Owain

Virion!Severa x Stahl!Yarne

Henry!Nah x Lon'qu!Brady

Donnel!Noire x Gregor!Laurent

Out of all of them, Noire seems like the unit who most wants them, but I'm not sure if she's worth it. Lucina could also be a candidate, for Sniper x Sage. There could be others who would like them who I'm not seeing.

Anyone have a suggestion on who should get the Boots, or things I should consider when deciding? (Input on the pairs themselves is also welcome and appreciated, as always.)

[Scarlet Slayer]

Not really sure where to post this but I was wondering when do you guys start getting skills to pass down.

Do you wait after the main game or do you grind for skills after chapter 14.

I'm on my 2nd play through and this time around I wanted to get the best skills to pass down so I grinded a lot of levels

But now the main story is boring me, should I restart and not grind or just force it to the end.

I wanted to try apotheosis so that was my reasoning behind grinding levels for the children's skills but I'm just way over level at chapter 17.

So my main question is should I be getting skills post game?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Boots: I used them so I could have 8 Mov on my main 8 combat pairs (basically using them as spare Deliverers). If that's not a concern, you should give them to one of the pairs you expect to use most outside of Apo (because face it, you're not deploying 8 combat pairs on every map and some of your pairs are going to be funner to use than others). This would probably be either pairs who have an exceptionally large amount of class options (such as Stahl!Owain), or double Armsthrift access. Also try to give them to the female over the male, since females tend to end their turns in front in Apo.

Skills: I plan my in-game team ahead of time so that all the units I plan on using will also be able to get their passdown skills in a reasonable amount of time. Not getting the children until later is an option for some pairs where the mother is really useful anyway (like Owain), but it generally works out best this way.

[sthbdis]

What would a good skill set be for Gregor!Noire? I'm thinking I could use her as a sniper for bosses. So maybe LB/Astra/Luna/Bowfaire/All +2?