PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Czar_Yoshi]

It could be a +3/25 forge instead. That with WRB would have the same atk as a +5/15 with no WRB.

[Knusperkeks]

It could be a +3/25 forge instead. That with WRB would have the same atk as a +5/15 with no WRB.

You're repeating yourself. Also, I don't care because #4317 never mentioned forges anywhere. This means we have an indeterminate included which was not accounted for. The calculations are wrong.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Knusperkeks

[Czar_Yoshi]

+ 14 (forged Longbow)

[Knusperkeks]

+ 14 (forged Longbow)

Good that we got that out of the way. Where is the weapon rank bonus?

[burgerkong]

Assuming you're using +3/25 forges on both weapons, yes that is correct. However Miracle can't activate on Dual Strikes so you've got some significant headroom there (I'd recommend dropping Bowfaire on Lucina).

Also consider that a Longbow isn't totally necessary there; since he only has Vantage and not Vantage+ you can get the same number of attacks in with a Brave Bow before being hit (which won't happen if your kill is guaranteed).

Thanks Czar! I'll keep that in mind :P

And yeah, I forgot to separate WRB, my bad. I wrote down weapon damage in a separate doc and didn't keep them separate (just listed Brave Bow as 12 instead of 10 + 2) so my apologies, I'll correct it in the future.

[JediZelda]

Hey everyone!

I'm picking up this game again after a long hiatus, and I'm trying to build a new team for Apotheosis. I've been reading some of the newer posts in this thread, and the differences in opinion from 2013 to now are quite a bit jarring. Who knew that Nosfertanking was not a good idea? And Virion is considered a good father now? I came up with a list of parent pairings to use (possibly barring a few tweaks- see below), but I need assistance with good classes and pairings for the children. I'm still trying to learn the ropes of Awakening in 2015.

Pairings I have so far:

-Sumia x Chrom = Lucina and Cynthia. I'd like to try out Sniper on Lucina. Cynthia I'm not sure...maybe Sniper or Dark Flier depending on whether a physical or magical girl is needed.

-Lissa x Ricken = Owain. Looks like this pairing has withstood the passing of time. He'd be a Sage.

-Sully x Gaius = Kjelle. I liked the variety of classes Donnel gives her, but I like these modifiers more. Wyvern lord final class?

-Cordelia x Virion = Severa. Debated between Virion and Lon'qu, either one could work if I had to shuffle pairings around. Wyvern lord.

-Panne x Stahl = Yarne. He'll appreciate the Hit +20 as a Berserker.

-Cherche x Henry = Gerome. I would never have thought of this pairing, but it looks like it works. Berserker most likely.

-Miriel x Gregor = Laurent. Unsure about this- would he be in the front or in the back? If he's in the back, what good would the normal skillset I see on him be? (V/V/Wrath, I believe)He'll likely be a sage either way.

-Maribelle x Lon'qu = Brady. Lon'qu wasn't being used elsewhere and I didn't want him to go to waste.

-Tharja x Donnel = Noire. Not sure about this one either. He gives Galeforce and..what else? Would she be better physical or magical? Does anyone else (other than Gaius) make a good Noire without sacrificing another child's usefulness?

-Nowi x Vaike = Nah. I really liked Vaike!Nah last time around, but I'm not sure who she'd be paired with. While I like he idea of Valkyrie Henry!Nah, I'm not that fond of Vaike!Gerome. Good strength mod, but he missed a lot more than I was comfortable with.

-Olivia x ? = Inigo. Looks like my best available choices are Frederick and Libra. I'm not sure I want yet another Sage, but what is a good class for Frederick!Inigo? And would he have to be paired up with Vaike!Nah? I admit to not being fond of the pairing, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Since MU will be female, I figure she'll be married off to one of the second generation. I'm thinking +Mag -Def with Ricken!Owain. I understand Ricken!Laurent gives Morgan a higher magic mod, but I think Owain would be a better pair up for MU. And I have a preference for Owain over Laurent. Would the resulting magical Morgan be good with Lucina? Assuming I can get past the squick factor of them being related (first cousins once removed?)

Edited April 24, 2015 by JediZelda

[Knusperkeks]

...

Which dlc skills are available to you?

[JediZelda]

Which dlc skills are available to you?

Forgot to put that in. All of them.

[Czar_Yoshi]

And yeah, I forgot to separate WRB, my bad. I wrote down weapon damage in a separate doc and didn't keep them separate (just listed Brave Bow as 12 instead of 10 + 2) so my apologies, I'll correct it in the future.

I tend to lump WRB and weapon mt together also, actually. You have to watch out for times when you're fighting against WTA (WTD removes your WRB) or doing effective damage (WRB's boost isn't tripled) but in general it's just one less number to track and thus a little cleaner. It helps that all three physical Braves are within 1 Atk of eachother with it applied.

Do remember to note forge values so nothing like that happens again. Speaking of which...

Good that we got that out of the way. Where is the weapon rank bonus?

You know you said forge. Don't be petty.

-Miriel x Gregor = Laurent. Unsure about this- would he be in the front or in the back? If he's in the back, what good would the normal skillset I see on him be? (V/V/Wrath, I believe)He'll likely be a sage either way.

-Tharja x Donnel = Noire. Not sure about this one either. He gives Galeforce and..what else? Would she be better physical or magical? Does anyone else (other than Gaius) make a good Noire without sacrificing another child's usefulness?

-Nowi x Vaike = Nah. I really liked Vaike!Nah last time around, but I'm not sure who she'd be paired with. While I like he idea of Valkyrie Henry!Nah, I'm not that fond of Vaike!Gerome. Good strength mod, but he missed a lot more than I was comfortable with.

-Olivia x ? = Inigo. Looks like my best available choices are Frederick and Libra. I'm not sure I want yet another Sage, but what is a good class for Frederick!Inigo? And would he have to be paired up with Vaike!Nah? I admit to not being fond of the pairing, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Since MU will be female, I figure she'll be married off to one of the second generation. I'm thinking +Mag -Def with Ricken!Owain. I understand Ricken!Laurent gives Morgan a higher magic mod, but I think Owain would be a better pair up for MU. And I have a preference for Owain over Laurent. Would the resulting magical Morgan be good with Lucina? Assuming I can get past the squick factor of them being related (first cousins once removed?)

Laurent will stick to the back unless he's paired with Lucina and using VV/DSt+ (a strat that I generally consider to not be worth the time, though it is quite powerful). That means damage boosting skills and (optionally) Hit boosting ones as well: LB/Agg/TF are pretty obvious, All+2 is good filler and Hex, Anathema, Mag+2 DSp+ are nice in the last slot (or last two, if you decide you would rather have two +Hit skills than All+2).

You're not going to get a good GF Noire from anyone, but she can still be OK without it. Vaike, Fred, Gregor and Ricken can all make her a good non-GF lead like Nah: basically pair her with a Galeboy, let him take the first kill and her take the lase. She'll want to go physical for all of those except Ricken- Sniper is generally a great option, and Vaike's Hero (with an Axefaire passdown) is nice too. She'll need LB and a Faire, one of Luna/Vengeance (both Luna and Astra if using Gregor), and then has plenty of room for utility skills: Anathema is always nice, Fred's Deliverer is useful, and if she's not using Vengeance Lifetaker might find use too.

Vaike!Nah does the same thing; her set of choice will be Hero with Axefaire and Luna.

Libra!Inigo has +1 Str and +2 Mag, and two physical Faires to boot- he's not constrained to being a Sage. Usually I run him mixed, he's a great Dread Fighter and can do Dark Knight well also. Or you could run him as a straight up physical class, he's got some good options in Hero, Assassin and the rare Galeforce Berserker.

Yes, Owain!Morgan will work well with Lucina.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Knusperkeks]

I'll cover the characters you seem to have trouble with. Characters not mentioned generally work out well and are not worth antagonizing over. Many of your suggested characters or top tier.

-Miriel x Gregor = Laurent. Unsure about this- would he be in the front or in the back? If he's in the back, what good would the normal skillset I see on him be? (V/V/Wrath, I believe)He'll likely be a sage either way.

His aptitude for magic is higher than for physical classes. +1 strength, +3 magic. I'd use him as a Sage.

If you want to frontline him, he needs to have vantage and vengeance and a good pair-up partner to annihilate anything that crosses his path via vantage before it kills him. Personal preference is DS+ over mag+2.

EP(enemy phase) front line Laurent: Vantage / Vengeance / Tomefaire / All+2 / Limit Breaker

All purpose support Laurent: Anathema or Magic+2 or Dual Support+ / Tomefaire / Aggressor / All+2 / Limit Breaker

I never really got into thinking about crit Laurent.

-Tharja x Donnel = Noire. Not sure about this one either. He gives Galeforce and..what else? Would she be better physical or magical? Does anyone else (other than Gaius) make a good Noire without sacrificing another child's usefulness?

+2 str, +3 mag. She can work decently in a few roles. I think this one makes a decent sniper by default. Vengeance / Bowfaire / All+2 / Galeforce / Limit Breaker.

-Nowi x Vaike = Nah. I really liked Vaike!Nah last time around, but I'm not sure who she'd be paired with. While I like he idea of Valkyrie Henry!Nah, I'm not that fond of Vaike!Gerome. Good strength mod, but he missed a lot more than I was comfortable with.

Hero support: Strenght+2 / All+2 / Axefaire / Odd Rhythm or Tantivy / Limit Breaker.

She might require 3 mt 25 hit forge on her axe. sword should be fine with 5 mt 15 hit.

-Olivia x ? = Inigo. Looks like my best available choices are Frederick and Libra. I'm not sure I want yet another Sage, but what is a good class for Frederick!Inigo? And would he have to be paired up with Vaike!Nah? I admit to not being fond of the pairing, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Frontline Hero: Galeforce, Aggressor, All+2 or Deliverer, Axefaire, Limit Breaker. Deliverer if you like convenience.

Since MU will be female, I figure she'll be married off to one of the second generation. I'm thinking +Mag -Def with Ricken!Owain. I understand Ricken!Laurent gives Morgan a higher magic mod, but I think Owain would be a better pair up for MU. And I have a preference for Owain over Laurent. Would the resulting magical Morgan be good with Lucina? Assuming I can get past the squick factor of them being related (first cousins once removed?)

Sumia!Lucina and Ricken!Owain!Morgan will wreck havoc no matter which classes they're in.

You know you said forge. Don't be petty.

I know what I said.

Forges and weapon rank bonuses are two separate topics.

Don't oversimplify.

Don't generalize.

Don't attempt to correct something which is not wrong.

[JediZelda]

Thanks Czar_Yoshi and Knusperkeks for the advice. I'm really indecisive, so I'm still trying to decide a few final pairs. Also debating on benching a pair altogether. What I have for sure is this:

-FeMu +Mag-Def (Dark Flier) x Ricken!Owain (Sage) (I didn't want a whole team of these, but I can stand one or two pairs)

-Sumia!Lucina (Sniper) x Ricken!Owain!Morgan (Sage) (Since FE is a medieval like setting, I can always tell myself that marrying cousins was a common thing in that time? Eh, the promise of them wreaking havoc was too good to pass up)

-Virion!Severa (Wyvern Lord) x Stahl!Yarne (Berseker)

-Gaius!Kjelle (Wyvern Lord) x Henry!Gerome (Berserker)

If I use all the children, Cynthia will go with Laurent. Nah and Noire will be left with Brady and Inigo; I'll have to think on it some more since I don't care for Nah's supports with either. If I do ditch a pair, it will likely be Laurent and either Nah or Noire. It seems like a waste to bench a Galeboy.

A few other questions I have:

-How important is it to have Galeforce on Noire? I used to think everyone needed this skill, but I have to say I like the idea of Frederick or Vaike!Noire (the latter if I bench Nah). It looks like they both give Noire better mods in the stats that matter (except Frederick and speed, and it's only 1 less than Donnel.

-Would Noire or Nah be the better female child to bench?

-Does Lon'qu Brady make a good Dread Fighter? I was going to make him a Sage, but it looks like his wife will be Nah or Noire, both of whom will be physical and will have no need for the magic and resistance Sage gives in a pair up bonus.

-Does All Stats +2 make that much of a difference?

[burgerkong]

A few other questions I have:

-How important is it to have Galeforce on Noire? I used to think everyone needed this skill, but I have to say I like the idea of Frederick or Vaike!Noire (the latter if I bench Nah). It looks like they both give Noire better mods in the stats that matter (except Frederick and speed, and it's only 1 less than Donnel.

-Would Noire or Nah be the better female child to bench?

-Does Lon'qu Brady make a good Dread Fighter? I was going to make him a Sage, but it looks like his wife will be Nah or Noire, both of whom will be physical and will have no need for the magic and resistance Sage gives in a pair up bonus.

-Does All Stats +2 make that much of a difference?

You don't need Galeforce on Noire. It's nice, but not necessary by any means. You already have 10 actions per Player Phase (assuming GF activates on everyone), which means you aren't pressed for time to kill or anything like that.

Lon'qu!Brady is a fine Dread Fighter, and can hit 75 Speed with a +3 Spd Pair Up or 69 with +0 Spd. He'd prefer using Tomes. Honestly, Noire can go magical fairly easily if you have a Tomefaire to spare (her mods definitely lend themselves towards it), but it's not too big of a deal.

Depends on the parent, but it depends on the Male leftover. Noire is probably more flexible overall.

AS+2 is necessary to hit 75 Speed as Virion!Severa & Gaius!Kjelle Wyvern Lord. There are other uses, but from your pairings that one stands out immediately to me. It's just a great filler skill overall.

Edited April 24, 2015 by burgerkong

[Czar_Yoshi]

GF on Noire: you'll notice if it's missing, but you'll also notice if you use Donnel and she's consistently performing slightly under everyone else. It'll be most noticable in the non-Apo DLC maps, and Deliverer can make up for a large part of the positioning advantage you lose from it.

Without GF, Noire and Nah both serve completely different roles and it just depends which you'd rather not have: Noire is a Vengeance Longbow Sniper for poking strong/scary stuff, Nah is like a standard female lead but with a ton of extra skillslots to play around with (but she's also slow).

Hero Nah isn't a physical support, she's neutral. She gives neither Str nor Mag. Keep her in the back, and it makes absolutely no difference whether she's paired with physical or magical- she'll give the same boosts to both. It's a big part of why Vaike!Nah is a thing, as opposed to her mostly magical counterpart from Henry. She'll get backwards boosts when she's up front, but also doesn't care then because her support has Aggressor and that's what matters. Dread Fighter Brady will work nicely with Hero Nah though.

If All+2 makes the difference between hitting 75 Spd and not hitting 75 Spd, then it also makes the difference between doubling everything and missing three doubles, which in turn makes the difference between your pair being able to do everything you might ask of any given pair (that any others can also do) and having limits that others can do but they can't. Basically it increases your ability to do what you want when used in the right places. Outside of that scenario, it's a general buff of +2 Atk, +4 Hit, and +0.5 DS%, which is relatively minor all told but also a good general purpose buff (and there aren't many support skills that can compete with it- most just add one or less of those buffs).

[varmlor]

Hi! Hopefully I'm not imposing too much by asking for a little more guidance than most people (decisions are hard!), but I'd be grateful for anything really. :) (I'm another player returning to Awakening after the Sorcerer craze.)

So: I'm looking to build a team (surprise!) of gen 2/3 characters for Lunatic in Game and Apotheosis. I like the sound of maxing out my chances of a dual strike with as many character pairs as possible; since it sounds very consistent when attempting to beat Apotheosis. But I have a feeling that making a 100% DS team isn't very convenient (for in game purposes). What I mean by that is that the number of units with both Armsthrift AND Galeforce (a very low-maintinance skill pairing) is likely to be low should I be maximising DS. Unless I've made a mistake of course?

So ultimately what I'm looking for is a team optimised for Apotheosis but with 4+ units having access to both Galeforce & Armsthrift. I'm fairly set on taking MaMU since I seem to be able make the more gen2/3 pairings and am able to have 3 units with Aether.

So here's what I have currently (derived from a lot of opinions found in this thread):

"Fixed" pairings:

Lead x Supp

Sumia@? x Chrom@?

Sumia!Lucina@Sniper? (No AT without the falchion makes her lacking in-game imo) x Avatar(M)@Berserker? (+Mag/Str/Skl?/-Def)

Chrom!Cynthia@DF x ?@Sage?

Gaius!Kjelle@Wyvern Lord x ?@Berserker?

Virion/Lon'qu!Severa@Wyvern Lord? x ?@Berserker? (Looks like a GF/AT unit pair in both in-game and Apo?)

Lucina!Morgan(F)@? (Inherits +?/-Def) (GF/AT) x

? x ?

x Vaike?!Nah@?

Help!(These Fathers are all very flexible and I'm not sure who to pair them with and with classes/skills):

Donnel/Kellam!Noire@? (GF/AT but gimped)

Gregor!Laurent (GF/AT)

Henry!Gerome (Supp)

Lon'Qu!Brady

Stahl!Yarne

Ricken!Owain

Frederick!Inigo (GF/AT)

So the way I see it is that although this set of pairs MIGHT make a half decent Apo team I'm only getting 3 GF&AT units, 4 if you count Donnel!Noire but I'm not sure I want to gimp her that badly. Please feel free to shuffle anything other than Chrom x Sumia, Gaius x Sully and LucinaxMaMU. I'm really hoping for help with final classes as well, the speed/100% breakpoints are a little overwhelming for a newbie. P.S. I have access to all DLC. As an extra challenge, I find it hard to believe that anyone can come up with 4+ pairs with 100% DS AND 6 units with access to both GF&AT (Is this possible if I sacrifice triple Aether?) (Lucina with access to Falchion counts imo but I think sniper is probably her best role... ). (Note I don't really fancy using Cordelia in-game, she feels rather flavourless)

Sorry about the wall of text but this has really been eating at me for 2+ days. :s

[Shinshia]

Hello all,

I've been lurking (and reading this thread) for quite a while now, I just finished going through Lunatic+ and I've been slowly preparing for Apotheosis; I have a few questions regarding some of the final classes and pairings for my second gen units. So here goes: I have Olivia as Lucina's mother (I did it for Inigo), I was planning on having her as a Dark Flier, and paired up with Sage Gregor!Laurent. The only thing is I realized she doesn't get Tomefaire from Olivia, would she still be a good unit? (She would have Aether/Luna instead of Aether/Tomefaire.)

Would Lucina be better off as a physical unit (Assassin or Sniper perhaps)?

Thanks!

[Czar_Yoshi]

Hi! Hopefully I'm not imposing too much by asking for a little more guidance than most people (decisions are hard!), but I'd be grateful for anything really. :) (I'm another player returning to Awakening after the Sorcerer craze.)

So: I'm looking to build a team (surprise!) of gen 2/3 characters for Lunatic in Game and Apotheosis. I like the sound of maxing out my chances of a dual strike with as many character pairs as possible; since it sounds very consistent when attempting to beat Apotheosis. But I have a feeling that making a 100% DS team isn't very convenient (for in game purposes). What I mean by that is that the number of units with both Armsthrift AND Galeforce (a very low-maintinance skill pairing) is likely to be low should I be maximising DS. Unless I've made a mistake of course?

So ultimately what I'm looking for is a team optimised for Apotheosis but with 4+ units having access to both Galeforce & Armsthrift. I'm fairly set on taking MaMU since I seem to be able make the more gen2/3 pairings and am able to have 3 units with Aether.

No, you're definitely not imposing. I like answering questions.

If you care about convenience... Marrying your Avatar to anyone other than a 1st gen unit isn't very convenient for ingame Lunatic. You're going to have to sacrifice something, and it can either be a bit of ingame performance (it's Vanilla, you can still get by it easily with just A ranks and no children if you know what you're doing) or a bit of postgame performance.

Getting GF and AT on as many units as possible is a goal that comes up fairly often, but here's the thing: you actually have very limited variance in what units will have all these. As in, you'll get the same units with them each and every time and pretty much all teams will be within 1 GF unit and 1 AT unit of eachother. That means that you're going to wind up with a similar distribution whether you aim for it or not.

You start with Morgan, Inigo and Severa, who all have access to both from just their mothers. There aren't any AT kids who both don't start with and can get GF, so they don't matter. Possible AT dads for 2nd gen units (so excluding Avatar) are Donnel, Gregor and Vaike. Donnel also gives GF so you can put him on Kjelle or Noire and get both, but his mods are so bad it may or may not be worth it. Gregor gives AT to anyone but there aren't many GF units who like him as their dad- he can't go on Cynthia, Severa already has AT, Kjelle/Noire/Nah won't have GF from him, and Owain/Inigo need procs which he doesn't give. You could put him on Brady for another GF/AT pair (your best option if AT/GF is all you care about) but Brady doesn't get anything else notable from Gregor, compared to the likes of Ricken (lots of Atk) and Virion/Lon'qu (bump him up to the highest Spd threshold when paired with a Dark Flier). Finally, Vaike only passes AT to females so he's in the same boat as Gregor but without an easy out in Brady, meaning it's impossible to use him to complete any GF/AT pairs.

Thus you're looking at Morgan, Inigo, and Severa for free, and possibly Brady and one of Kjelle/Noire. That's five units.

You could get a little more out of the deal if you used Avatar-F x Chrom, though. Morgan would still have GF/AT, Lucina would gain it and so would Avatar, pushing you up to 7. It's also a good pairing for ingame. Up to you if you want to do it. Anyway, as for the rest of your planned pairings:

Your Avatar's asset (assuming you stay with Avatar x Lucina) depends pretty much entirely on what Morgan wants to do, since he's quite self-sufficient and mod independent back behind Lucina. +Mag will give Morgan an excellent Valkyrie leading a Sage, while +Str/Skl will be more helpful if she decides to take the Wyvern route.

Kellam gives Noire neither GF nor AT.

Similarly, Gregor!Laurent does not have GF.

Finally, I see your 4 pairs of 100% DS and 6 GF/AT units and raise you:

Chrom@whatever x Olivia@whatever (DSt+ for 100% DS)

Olivia!Lucina@Bow Knight/Assassin (Falchion for AT condition, DSt+ for 100% DS) x Morgan@whatever

Virion!Severa@Sniper (LB/GF/AT/All+2/Skl+2) (Skl: 79/87) x Gregor!Brady@Assassin (LB/GF/AT/All+2/Defender) (Skl: 77/83) = 162/164 Skl

+Skl/-Def Avatar-F@Sniper (LB/GF/AT/All+2/Skl+2) (Skl: 78/86) x Chrom!Inigo@Sniper (LB/GF/AT/All+2/Skl+2) (Skl: 77/85) = 163/163 Skl

Dun ^_^ that's four pairs at 100% DS, three of them made up entirely of GF/AT units. You've got a few Skl worth of room to play around with the non-DSt+ ones- not enough for much of a class change, but you could drop a Skl booster in favor of a proc here and there. Chrom and Olivia can do whatever they want, and so can Morgan and Lucina as long as Lucina has Sword access.

That team is still pretty bad, though, because it throws all else to the sidelines in favor of just those conditions. Go ahead, challenge me to improve it.

Would Lucina be better off as a physical unit (Assassin or Sniper perhaps)?

She'll be fine as either (running LB/GF/DSt+/Aether/Luna). If you take her physical, I'd recommend Bow Knight (she's not getting into any higher speed bracket even with Assassin, so you might as well go with the 8 Mov).

Edited April 24, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Shinshia]

Ok thank you, I'll probably keep her as a Dark Flier.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Shinshia

[varmlor]

No, you're definitely not imposing. I like answering questions.

If that's the case then I'm really hoping to learn a lot here! :P

Finally, I see your 4 pairs of 100% DS and 6 GF/AT units and raise you:

Chrom@whatever x Olivia@whatever (DSt+ for 100% DS)

Olivia!Lucina@Bow Knight/Assassin (Falchion for AT condition, DSt+ for 100% DS) x Morgan@whatever

Virion!Severa@Sniper (LB/GF/AT/All+2/Skl+2) (Skl: 79/87) x Gregor!Brady@Assassin (LB/GF/AT/All+2/Defender) (Skl: 77/83) = 162/164 Skl

+Skl/-Def Avatar-F@Sniper (LB/GF/AT/All+2/Skl+2) (Skl: 78/86) x Chrom!Inigo@Sniper (LB/GF/AT/All+2/Skl+2) (Skl: 77/85) = 163/163 Skl

Dun ^_^ that's four pairs at 100% DS, three of them made up entirely of GF/AT units. You've got a few Skl worth of room to play around with the non-DSt+ ones- not enough for much of a class change, but you could drop a Skl booster in favor of a proc here and there. Chrom and Olivia can do whatever they want, and so can Morgan and Lucina as long as Lucina has Sword access.

So, if I understand correctly, although this team would be really nice to use throughout Lunatic in-game it has limited viability in Apo? If we were to relax the constraints on GF AT pairs in order to improve Apo viability how would things end up looking?

I feel like having a GF AT lead with a AT support would be perfectly acceptable for in-game purposes and I wouldn't think that 100% DS would be *needed*, as such same-sex in game pairings would be fine should they seem better. (If this is untrue or you can think of a better relaxation, please suggest it!)

So based on the above I reached the conclusion that Vaike!Nah was almost a certainty (since I didn't feel like using the avatar on her). Largely as she would make a nice support for in-game and Apo (probably without AT?) although with regards to apo I don't know for whom.

So expanding on this general idea, would it be possible to build a team centred around *two* pairings?

One which will perform strong-ish in Apo (I still have no idea how to make pairings suitable for Apo... ) and one which will perfom conveniently in-game (With GF AT on lead and at least AT on the supp)? In order to acheive this goal, is it worth taking the hit and putting Donnel with one of the poor girls?

Just as a bonus could you please tell me how many locations I can get stat boosts from and what the end goal is? I'm not sure on how many points which rally gives you and which consumables are worth popping. (160skl/75spd?) I'll be using palla as a R.Bot for this team and then I'll drop katerina in after I unlock her.

Thank you so much for the reply, really very helpful/detailed and I think I might be trying to take you up on this by the way:

That team is still pretty bad, though, because it throws all else to the sidelines in favor of just those conditions. Go ahead, challenge me to improve it.

[Czar_Yoshi]

It has limited viability everywhere. You're not getting 100% DS ingame from any build without grinding, period (even 100% AT is pushing it). But it's also so weak due to sacrificing a bunch of damage skills that it won't be able to get many kills (other than Lucina and Morgan) in Apo either. That team was solely to meet your specs- it'll perform very badly in practice.

If you get Vaike!Nah ingame she'll be a lead. Manaketes always want to be up front ingame.

I was actually thinking of adding another GF/AT unit into that team and then making it decent for both ingame and Apo, but scaling it down to two pairs can work. What would be much better though is if you just dropped the GF/AT condition entirely and settled for a small number of Galepairs (single or double) and used AT where you have it and have room for it (it's pretty rare to use it in Apo). Two good bases for starting this are Chrom x Sumia and Avatar x one of their kids along with Chrom x Olivia and Avatar x Sumia/Cordelia: both give you a lot of concentrated power with two open, very powerful females and a completely open set of fathers for their two husbands. Anyway I'll add the 7 units team after dinner.

GF/AT on the lead and AT on the support in game... Isn't that big of a deal either. Realistically, you cannot get GF on anyone other than Sumia, Cordelia, Avatar-F and all their kids ingame on Lunatic. Maybe add Inigo and Kjelle with heavy favoritism. Once you've got a bunch of those GF units and get their weapon ranks up high, other things- like AT, S supports and even stats- tend to stop mattering. So if you pick up AT on some of those units, it'll be nice, but they won't really care and would much rather have GF several chapters earlier (or stay in a promoted class to use it).

Now what will probably happen if you get a bunch of units like that is that you'll start favoring the AT ones (since they cost less money). And at that point, you might as well just plan to use only the ones which can get both easily on the same pair... Which means Avatar x Cordelia, Veteran/GF passdown to Severa and AT/GF passdown to Morgan (Morgan reclasses to Tactician, Severa reclasses to Cav) and then stomp the game with those two pairs and maybe Chrom x Sumia (Sumia Staffbotting as a Falco and keeping Chrom safe). Since you want both GF and AT on Cordelia, she'll have to go Peg -> DF -> Merc -> Hero which takes a lot of exp and effort to do safely.

If you don't want to do that, then just use what you get. Avatar can take down Vanilla on his own anyway.

[varmlor]

Now what will probably happen if you get a bunch of units like that is that you'll start favoring the AT ones (since they cost less money). And at that point, you might as well just plan to use only the ones which can get both easily on the same pair... Which means Avatar x Cordelia, Veteran/GF passdown to Severa and AT/GF passdown to Morgan (Morgan reclasses to Tactician, Severa reclasses to Cav) and then stomp the game with those two pairs and maybe Chrom x Sumia (Sumia Staffbotting as a Falco and keeping Chrom safe). Since you want both GF and AT on Cordelia, she'll have to go Peg -> DF -> Merc -> Hero which takes a lot of exp and effort to do safely.

So If I understood correctly, you're suggesting that I might be better off not pairing avatarxlucina if I want convenience? Will I lose a significant amount of power by doing this? (One less Aether?) Based on what you've said how does this set look:

Sumia!Lucina@Sniper x Avatar (+SKL?MAG?/-DEF)@?

Chrom!Cynthia@DF x Ricken!Owain@Sage

Gaius!Kjelle@WL x Stahl!Yarne@Berserker

Virion!Severa@WL x Henry!Gerome @Berserker

Lucina!Morgan@DF? x Gregor!Laurent@Sage

Lon'Qu!Brady@Sage x Donnel/ ? !Noire @DF?

Frederick!Inigo @Hero? x Vaike!Nah @General?

Chrom@Paladin? x Sumia@Falco?

How would it do in Apo?

Additionally is there a team which would work in Apo if the avatar fathers Owain, if you think there is how would it stack up to the above? On that same note, how does fathering Severa stack up to Apo? (It feels like a waste to father Severa to me?)

p.s. I'm really not worried about grinding if I can't pass a certain stage, l'm one of those people who would rather play a team that I think "feels nice to use" regardless of how much work it takes to get the skills I need to achieve that.

Thank you so much for your help!

[sthbdis]

So my niece deleted my file that I was doing an apo run for. It had about 45 hours on it so I was very irritated, and so I would appreciate any help getting things together.

ChromXSumia

SullyXGaius

PanneXVirion

OliviaXFreddy

ChercheXHenry

NowiXVaike

LissaXRicken

These are the ones I'm leaning toward, so unless there is a glaring hole, or someone who would be better used somewhere else, I would like to keep as many of these as possible.

So I don't have a father for Laurent, Noire or Severa.

And I really would rather not run vengeance, but if nobody has any other options I would consider it.

So Stahl is free, I feel like he helps Severa because he gives her a good proc and pretty decent mods, and she can get a faire if she really needs it, I lean toward him for Severa for those reasons.

So Libra, Kellam, Donnel and Gregor are available as fathers. So any help would be appreciated.

[burgerkong]

So my niece deleted my file that I was doing an apo run for. It had about 45 hours on it so I was very irritated, and so I would appreciate any help getting things together.

ChromXSumia

SullyXGaius

PanneXVirion

OliviaXFreddy

ChercheXHenry

NowiXVaike

LissaXRicken

These are the ones I'm leaning toward, so unless there is a glaring hole, or someone who would be better used somewhere else, I would like to keep as many of these as possible.

So I don't have a father for Laurent, Noire or Severa.

And I really would rather not run vengeance, but if nobody has any other options I would consider it.

So Stahl is free, I feel like he helps Severa because he gives her a good proc and pretty decent mods, and she can get a faire if she really needs it, I lean toward him for Severa for those reasons.

So Libra, Kellam, Donnel and Gregor are available as fathers. So any help would be appreciated.

If you really don't like setting up Vengeance, that's fine, but Luna isn't a requirement for Apotheosis either since it's definitely possible to add up enough damage to get the kill outright without procs.

You also did not include Brady, who come with Luna and is unscrewable anyways, but Lon'qu would be a good option here since all he really needs is higher Skl + Speed mods. You might have already done this and forgot to include it, since I don't see either of them up there.

Laurent can take Gregor for a more well-rounded approach, but you don't seem to be into Vengeance for Vantage-Vengeance, so in that case just going with Libra for the +Mag mod is fine.

Noire can just take Donnel for Galeforce. but Gregor is an option if you want non-Galeforce. Gregor's mods make her well-balanced and gives her some nice new class options.

Where is MU in this? Pairing off your 2nd gen characters is fairly important, and I'm assuming he'll be paired off with one of the children.

[sthbdis]

If you really don't like setting up Vengeance, that's fine, but Luna isn't a requirement for Apotheosis either since it's definitely possible to add up enough damage to get the kill outright without procs.

You also did not include Brady, who come with Luna and is unscrewable anyways, but Lon'qu would be a good option here since all he really needs is higher Skl + Speed mods. You might have already done this and forgot to include it, since I don't see either of them up there.

Laurent can take Gregor for a more well-rounded approach, but you don't seem to be into Vengeance for Vantage-Vengeance, so in that case just going with Libra for the +Mag mod is fine.

Noire can just take Donnel for Galeforce. but Gregor is an option if you want non-Galeforce. Gregor's mods make her well-balanced and gives her some nice new class options.

Where is MU in this? Pairing off your 2nd gen characters is fairly important, and I'm assuming he'll be paired off with one of the children.

So from my understanding it seemed like procs were the best way to get your average damage up. How else do you rack up damage? I know Aggressor is great.

And your assumption on Lon'quXMaribelle was right, I forgot to post that somehow.

And I was thinking of doing Virion!Yarne!Morgan. Not sure if that's a bad decision, but I would prefer a primarily physical Morgan and he gives pretty good mods for that, and that seems like what Morgan cares most about since he can get basically anything he needs in terms of skills.

And I read something about how FeMu makes for a worse Morgan, not sure how that happens so if you have insight I'd appreciate it. Or I may have misunderstood.

[Knusperkeks]

Aside from skill% proccs, primary damage modifiers are anything which increases Atk or Dual Strike%.

As long as Aggressor exists, male Morgan will always dish out more damage than his female pendant.

[sthbdis]

Aside from skill% proccs, primary damage modifiers are anything which increases Atk or Dual Strike%.

As long as Aggressor exists, male Morgan will always dish out more damage than his female pendant.

So you're saying that I misunderstood about Morgan. A male Morgan is preferable because of Aggressor.

And I understand what increases Atk and DS%. I was mostly wondering what increases those enough to get kills without procs. I assume tons of forged weapons mostly. Sorry for the confusion

Edited April 26, 2015 by sthbdis