PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[isetrh]

Anyone have tips for support grinding? I want to get everyone to all of their A supports.

[Zerosabers]

Isetrh use chapter 4's and turn off all animations and skip enemy phase. Also do normal so you can spam buy reeking boxes to endless grind there. There might be a faster way but thats what I used.

[Czar_Yoshi]

All right, I asked for advice on pairings a couple of pages ago, and got some nice feedback. I have a few more questions based on some of my decisions to tweak what I had.

-I decided to drop Nah and Laurent, and now I find myself with a Gregor!Noire (this cannot be changed, Tharja and Gregor are already married). To anyone who has used this pairing: what's a good class and skillset for her? I'm torn between a few different ideas. Her husband will be Libra!Inigo. Is there anything notable that Gregor should pass down?

-Speaking of Inigo, what are good classes for him with this particular wife and father?

-I want to make Gaius!Kjelle a Paladin, just for some variety (I already have a Wyvern Lord in Virion!Severa, which will hopefully be worth those awful Virion and Cordelia supports). I'm planning on her husband being Henry!Gerome. Is Berseker still a good support class for a Paladin, or would something else be better? I can swap Gerome with Stahl!Yarne if I must, but I prefer Yarne being paired with Severa.

-Luna or Ignis on a Sage Morgan? His parents will be Ricken!Owain and +Mag-Def FeMU.

Gregor!Noire: I usually keep non-GF Noires as Snipers. Vengeance, BF, LB and might as well use AT for the Double Bow. You could also run Luna/Astra instead of Vengeance if needbe. I didn't check her Spd so All+2 may or may not make a difference.

Libra!Inigo may see use in being a GF Berserker here. If Noire runs Hex or Anathema for him, he can use both Vengeance and Axefaire without major Hit issues, which is really nice. If you don't want to do that, Libra!Inigo can fit well as a Dread Fighter, though a non-GF female Sniper doesn't have very good synergy with that so I don't advise it.

Paladin x Berserker works great. The only difference from Wyvern for her is that you'll drop All+2 for Astra, and optionally trade Lancefaire for Swordfaire. The Wyvern would technically appreciate Gerome more as they have slightly worse Hit and thus would benefit more from his Anathema, but it doesn't matter much.

Ignis will typically outdamage Luna in Apo. You'll probably have around 55 Str, which is more than almost everything's Res.

How is it poor? With stat boost from dragonstone ignis would add a lot of damage, and with sol, vantage will either hit massive damage or heal armsthrift because I hate rebuying and reforging and galeforce is a second attack how is that crappy?

So your saying to make it work I have to marry nowi to avatar?

Each of those skills works well, just not together. Ignis and Sol? Sure, Ignis may add a ton of damage... But Sol has precedence over it, so the maximum possible Ignis activation rate you could see is 25% (with exactly 50 Skl), and that's really bad if you want reliable damage, something postgame Manaketes need since they lack Braves. Vantage may look pretty, but it only actually has an effect if it a) KOes the foe before they can attack you (with no Braves and <25% Ignis? Not likely), or both allows you to heal and the healing allows you to live through the attack (banking on a random% heal for survival? Bad idea). Otherwise, it rearranges the turn order, but each side still takes the same amount of damage after the battle. You can't forge Dragonstones so Armsthrift isn't saving any reforges there. And Galeforce is only a second attack if you actually kill your target... Which you'll have trouble doing with that <25% Ignis. Manaketes are defensive units and shouldn't be relying on killing stuff on player phase anyway.

So yeah, they work poorly together. That's not saying that any of those are bad skills, just that putting together a bunch of skills that might be good individually is not a recipe for success.

I'm saying that Avatar x Nowi will give your Manaketes the biggest advantage possible at the time of the game where Manaketes perform best, thus you get the most possible out of your Manaketes. You can certainly make them decent elsewhere, just not the best possible.

Hello, I would like to know the optimal father for Yarne. I want to have my MU marry him and I am planning for her to be +Strength and -Defence. Which father would be best for Yarne in this scenario?

Lon'qu is usually best for Morgan's sake, while Virion and Stahl are fairly equal for Yarne's sake.

Be aware though that a +Str/-Def Avatar-F will be extremely slow.

[burgerkong]

Ignis will typically outdamage Luna in Apo. You'll probably have around 55 Str, which is more than almost everything's Res.

Whoops wow I fail at math (or forgot to add one of the 10s from LB or rally).

I'll edit my prior post to double check, but Ricken!Owain!Morgan (+Mag) @Sage has 53 Str assuming he has a +0 Str Pair Up (i.e. Dark Flier).

30 (base) - 2 (mod) + 10 (LB) + 10 (rally) + 2 (tonic) + 3 (Pair Up) = 53 total Strength

[Knightmare]

...but you don't get to choose which you want, Sol or Ignis. Sol > Ignis in terms of skill activation priority, meaning a lot of the time you will heal unnecessarily, or you can get unlucky and miss a crucial heal and die. Not to mention that Armsthrift is worthless since you can't forge Dragonstones at all, so it's literally only for a tiny bit of convenience.

In terms of ingame stuff, it's impractical to get all these skills without excessive grinding, which is why Czar is suggesting you just run through Tactician --> Mercenary.

In terms of Apotheosis, Manakete damage output will always be inferior to practically every other unit outside of Taguels simply because they lack Brave weapons. Manaketes are definitely the 2nd worst class after Taguel for this reason. Dragonstone / Beaststone stat boost does not even come close to making up for attacking half as many times, and their stat caps are generally inferior to boot.

If you're just doing this for postgame stomping with excessive grinding, then you're really at liberty to run whatever you want. Manaketes are cool and all, but they're simply not that good unless you're gonna run them for fun, in which case it's all opinion and we can't really help.

And yes, no other father will give Nah access to all the skills you want.

Dragonstone can't be forged? I thought I saw someone saying it could.......

Ok thanks for all the advise Czar and Burgerkong.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Knightmare

[JediZelda]

One setup just off the top of my head would be Gregor!Noire @Sniper (LB / Bowfaire / Luna / Astra / Hex) with Libra!Inigo @Hero with the setup listed above. Gregor!Noire @Hero would be another if you want Inigo to hit 75 Speed, but then you lose out on 2-3 range utility.

Yeah, I was basically debating between a Hero, Vengeance Sniper, or Proc stack Sniper for Noire. I wasn't impressed with magical Noire thanks to no Tomefaire (though Donnel being her father also likely had something to do with it- great for Galeforce, bad for mods). I'm leaning toward Sniper but I'll probably have Gregor pass Axefaire in case I change my mind. Thanks!

Gregor!Noire: I usually keep non-GF Noires as Snipers. Vengeance, BF, LB and might as well use AT for the Double Bow. You could also run Luna/Astra instead of Vengeance if needbe. I didn't check her Spd so All+2 may or may not make a difference.

Libra!Inigo may see use in being a GF Berserker here. If Noire runs Hex or Anathema for him, he can use both Vengeance and Axefaire without major Hit issues, which is really nice. If you don't want to do that, Libra!Inigo can fit well as a Dread Fighter, though a non-GF female Sniper doesn't have very good synergy with that so I don't advise it.

Hmm, these are definitely some things to think about. As I stated, I'm leaning towards making Noire a Sniper, just not sure which skill set I should run. Severa and Kjelle should both hit 75 speed, so Noire hitting it is not a necessity for me. I would like her to reach the second speed threshold, though (which is what- 69 for Thronie?)

I never thought of making Inigo a Berserker. His skill set is pretty much set with the standard, so I'd have to make sure to add room for Hex or Anathema (is one better than the other?) on Noire. One thing though- if Inigo is going to need to be physical, would Frederick serve him better? I can easily swap out Libra for Frederick, since all the latter is doing is fathering a benched Nah so I can get the supports.

Whoops wow I fail at math (or forgot to add one of the 10s from LB or rally).

I'll edit my prior post to double check, but Ricken!Owain!Morgan (+Mag) @Sage has 53 Str assuming he has a +0 Str Pair Up (i.e. Dark Flier).

30 (base) - 2 (mod) + 10 (LB) + 10 (rally) + 2 (tonic) + 3 (Pair Up) = 53 total Strength

Well, in my case Morgan's wife will be Sumia!Lucina @ Sniper, for dual strike shenanigans at longbow/double bow range. With the +3 Strength pair up, that should make Morgan's Strength 56. And as I just realized, putting Ignis on Morgan means that Strength pair up bonus will not go to waste. Ignis it is, then.

[burgerkong]

Hmm, these are definitely some things to think about. As I stated, I'm leaning towards making Noire a Sniper, just not sure which skill set I should run. Severa and Kjelle should both hit 75 speed, so Noire hitting it is not a necessity for me. I would like her to reach the second speed threshold, though (which is what- 69 for Thronie?)

Yep it's 69, Noire is hitting that no problem with any +Speed pair up.

I never thought of making Inigo a Berserker. His skill set is pretty much set with the standard, so I'd have to make sure to add room for Hex or Anathema (is one better than the other?) on Noire. One thing though- if Inigo is going to need to be physical, would Frederick serve him better? I can easily swap out Libra for Frederick, since all the latter is doing is fathering a benched Nah so I can get the supports.

Well, in my case Morgan's wife will be Sumia!Lucina @ Sniper, for dual strike shenanigans at longbow/double bow range. With the +3 Strength pair up, that should make Morgan's Strength 56. And as I just realized, putting Ignis on Morgan means that Strength pair up bonus will not go to waste. Ignis it is, then.

You'd probably run Anathema, since Noire won't benefit at all from Hex as a Sniper.

As for the Libra!Inigo vs. Fred!Inigo thing, there's a few major differences:

- Libra!Inigo has 2 more speed than Fred!Inigo, which makes a difference in classes with mid-low speed. In this instance, Fred!Inigo & Libra!Inigo @Berserker both hit the 69 Speed threshold for Helswath Berserkers with Noire @Sniper (Fred!Inigo hits 69 Spd, Libra!Inigo hits 71). BUT, if Inigo @Hero, then Fred!Inigo only hits 67 Speed, while Libra!Inigo hits 69.

- Vengeance vs. Luna, Vengeance results in overall higher damage output but requires some setup & calculations. This is mostly personal preference.

- Since Noire @ Sniper needs a +Spd Pair Up to hit 69 Spd, the only relevant class Fred!Inigo has over Libra!Inigo is Paladin. Note that Fred!Inigo only hits 65 Speed as a Paladin though.

Edited May 9, 2015 by burgerkong

[astrophys]

I was rethinking how I should tackle my attempt (still in planning) at running Apotheosis' Secret Route without any of the DLC.

Any criticisms/commentary on my approach and ways I could improve would be appreciated…

I had been considering using Severa/Gerome as an Assassin/Berseker team for taking on the Wave 4/Wave 5 Berserkers, but the setup I had awkwardly needed Ragnell and defense boosting skills (like Defense+2) to survive against Anna. I'm thinking that maybe I should switch whom I'm having fight the Berserkers (at least, primarily) and should retool this pair to better fight Anna.

This is what I'm thinking now:

Avatar!Severa(+Mag/-Str), mods are -1 Str, +4 Mag, +2 Skl, +5 Spd, +0 Lck, +0 Def, +2 Res

Vengeance

Galeforce

Tomefaire

Speed + 2

Defender

Dark Knight Severa (40+5 = 45 speed, base) x Hero Gregor!Gerome

With these skills, pair-up, tonics, and non-DLC rallies, this yields 66 speed and 60 Defense. More than enough to tank Anna's Aether [requires 48 Defense with an HP tonic] (and on that note also the Aethers of the Ragnell Paladin [requires 58 defense and an HP tonic] and the Aether Falcon Knight).

So Anna will Vantage+, then get a 65% chance of using Aether. If she does and its not dual guarded, she deals 66 damage, which makes Vengeance give what would be a 33 damage boost (actually +16 damage due to Dragonskin).

45 Magic on the Dark Knight (with mods) + 2 Weapon Rank bonus + 5 Tomefaire + 9 Celica's Gale + 8 Rallies + 2 Tonic + 3 pair-up generic bonus = 74 magic attack

Anna has (55 resistance +3 res from throne) = 58 effective resistance, as well as Dragonskin.

Severa's basic damage would be 8, +16 if Vengeance triggered off of a full Aether. 24 damage. Celica's Gale lets me do that twice. 48 damage under the best case scenario. (Of course, I'll have other units with Hex/Anathema to help out.)

Gerome has 48 Strength as a Hero due to his mods…. 48 + 1 Weapon Rank Bonus + 5 Axefaire + 2 from "Strength+2", +15 might (from Brave Axe forged for +3 might/+25 Hit), +8 rallies, +2 tonic, +1 weapon triangle advantage.

That gives him 82 attack vs. Anna, which after 58 defense and Dragonskin gives 12 damage per hit of a dual strike [for a total of 12x2 = 24 damage over both hits if they connect]. Since Severa will strike twice from Celica's Goals, Gerome can potential get 2 groups of 2 hits, for 12 x 4 = 48 damage.

So that brings me to 48 + 48 damage = 96 damage under the perfect scenario.

Okay, so that's short, so then I'd sacrifice 10 hit to shift two of the forges back to might, for +5 might, +15 hit. Then I'd have 84 attack on Gerome, making him deal 13 damage per hit. 4 x 13 = 52. I'll use Lancebreaker to help compensate… maybe Charm from Chrom being nearby as well.

(8 basic Celica's Gale + 16 Vengeance from taking 66 damage) x 2 + (13 damage from Brave Axe)x 4 = 100 damage, which can kill Anna from full health.

Of course, its not likely to go that smoothly…

--- 65% chance of Anna getting Aether (which I WANT so that it boosts my damage)

--- 96.75% chance for Anna to hit [based on True hit] from a 87% stated chance for Anna to hit (232 Hit - 66 Speed *1.5 Avoid/Spd - 62 Luck*0.5 Avoid/Luck - 10 from S-support - 5 from Charm) …. without charm, stated 92% chance will be 98.80% true hit instead.

--- 62 % chance for Gerome to NOT dual guard

--- 89% chance of getting the first dual strike

--- 89% chance of getting the 2nd dual strike

So, if my math is right, its about a 30.8% chance of killing her outright in the first round of combat. If Anna survives at roughy 69.2% chance, I can have Olivia dance for Severa, have someone use a staff to heal her above the survival threshold, and try again with a second attack that round.

I haven't factored in my accuracy, though.

Those will, in any event, give me an effective 5+15+10+15+15 = +60 hit boost on Severa…. add in 80 hit from Celica's Gale…. that's 140 Hit….

Severa will have 40+2(mod)+10 (rallies/tonics)+8 Gerome + 1 Defender = 61 skill, so that's 91.5 Hit there. 62 Luck gives another 31 hit.

So that's 140 Hit + 91.5 Hit + 31 Hit = 262 Hit. Anna has 157 Avoid on her throne (137+20 = 157). 262 - 157 = 105. Which means I don't actually NEED charm after all, at least for Severa. So I can drop that and increase the chance that Anna hits me. Which would (assuming my calculations show Gerome having a 100% hit rate), would increase the chance of a 1 combat kill marginally to 31.5%.

So, I still probably need Severa to be danced for to kill Anna, but it looks like that I do have enough firepower, even without DLC, to wipe her out in a single round with a reasonable chance and without needing to use stuff like crits.

And this build will also kill the Ragnell Paladin and other notable annoying enemies….

Does this sound good, or have I overlooked something?

ADDENDUM:

On a related note, how would you setup the following pairs to be most effective in Apotheosis under no-DLC, story character only conditions.

Cordelia!Morgan(+Mag/-Str) x Kellam!Laurent [special inheritance: Rally Resistance]

Sumia!Lucina x Lon'qu!Brady [special inheritance: Galeforce]

Frederick!Owain [special inheritance: Galeforce] x Gaius!Noire [special inheritance: Sol]

Chrom!Cynthia x Virion!Yarne

Stahl!Inigio [special inheritance: Galeforce] x Donnel!Kjelle [special inheritance: Aptitude]

Yes, some of my choices weren't the best, but its kind of too late now.

I'm planning to run around 5 combat pairs… probably 5 2nd-gen pairs, although possibly 4 2nd-gen pairs and a Chrom x Sumia pair.

So out of the 6 child pairs I've listed + Chrom x Sumia (for a total of 7 candidate pairs), which 5 would you recommend as my best candidates for tackling Apo?

Chrom, of course, is force deployed, but seeing that my setups aren't leaving room for Armsthrift, he could alway be acting as the convoy-bot, supplying people weapons and rescue staves as needed, particularly without having attackers waste their turns restocking.

Edited May 10, 2015 by astrophys

[Alastor15243]

Hey, I've been gone for a while, but I think I'm back now, planning another run of fire emblem, though not one with grinding, at least not before the endgame. So I'm wondering what the best future son is, not counting morgan, in terms of usefulness, ease to unlock and availability in a nogrind run? Basically, what male character, with which father, has the best balance of ease to quickly bring into the game without permanently sacrificing postgame viability by skipping galeforce, paralogue accessibility, and utility in game while still being viable post-game?

[Bovinian]

Male 2nd gen without Galeforce only leaves Laurent, Gerome, and Yarne. Out of these, Laurent is the easiest to get (his paralogue can always be accessed as soon as it is unlocked, and the chapter itself is among the easiest). Miriel has great availability, so if you've been using her consistently, Laurent should start with decent stats. Gregor is a solid choice as a father both in-game (pretty good availability, pass down Armsthrift or Sol or something) and for post-game.

Not the most efficient way of playing, but something I like to do occasionally: if you don't mind immediately reclassing Laurent and have him initially suffer through 9 levels as a shitty Myrmidon, you can turn him into an Armsthrift/VV Dark Mage as soon as he picks up Vantage if you have Miriel pass down Vengeance. There are a bunch of axe users on his paralogue so if you're careful you can have him gain some levels there.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Bovinian

[Knusperkeks]

...

Can't turn off personal bias here. I'm voting for Laurent. He has no gf available to begin with, so grinding levels with his mother is not essential, but recommended since Miriel has access to staffs and is very capable of using them thanks to +2 mag from her base class and ability to choose different staff wielding classes. She's also a good candidate to invest early experience on.

Gregor is dirt cheap when it comes to passing down Sol to Laurent (One Master Seal and 4 level ups). It worked for me for what it's worth.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Knusperkeks

[Czar_Yoshi]

Gregor!Laurent is the king of ingame males.

[Alastor15243]

Alright, seems pretty straightforward. But I'm considering Libra instead of Gregor since I'll be using him either way along with Anna as staffbots and it'll make for a better magic mod, base, and growth rate.

I'm assuming that some variation of Laurent!Morgan is considered the best second generation male morgan to use for in-game? Are there any other decent options?

[Knusperkeks]

That depends on your definition of 'best second generation male morgan to use for in-game'.

[Bovinian]

Morgan always turns out great no matter what, so 'best in-game 2nd gen male Morgan' will probably just be whichever one you can get access to the earliest. If you can get Miriel to S support quickly enough, you can get Laurent as soon as you get Lucina, something that can't be said for a lot of the other kids. You may or may not be able to get Miriel to S support with Libra or Gregor by the end of Chapter 13; if you really want to accomplish this, I'll also suggest Lon'qu as a father. Lon'qu in particular will give Laurent!Morgan insane Mag/Skl/Spd offensive parameters, especially if your avatar's asset is something like +Mag/-Def.

[Alastor15243]

Morgan always turns out great no matter what, so 'best in-game 2nd gen male Morgan' will probably just be whichever one you can get access to the earliest. If you can get Miriel to S support quickly enough, you can get Laurent as soon as you get Lucina, something that can't be said for a lot of the other kids. You may or may not be able to get Miriel to S support with Libra or Gregor by the end of Chapter 13; if you really want to accomplish this, I'll also suggest Lon'qu as a father. Lon'qu in particular will give Laurent!Morgan insane Mag/Skl/Spd offensive parameters, especially if your avatar's asset is something like +Mag/-Def.

Hm... Lon'qu x Miriel... never tried that before, heard their S support is adorable and hilarious. I think I'll give that a shot.

[Czar_Yoshi]

You may or may not be able to get Miriel to S support with Libra or Gregor by the end of Chapter 13

It should be doable in 6 chapters with either a Seed of Trust or an Event Tile in each of the first two.

Also all children are reachable right off the bat following Cht.13 by using other child paralogues to reach theirs, so if there's one you want for availability purposes that's on Valm it's still possible to reach them early (except Inigo and Yarne, who require Morgan who in this case isn't available).

Edited May 11, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Shadow Mir]

It should be doable in 6 chapters with either a Seed of Trust or an Event Tile in each of the first two.

Also all children are reachable right off the bat following Cht.13 by using other child paralogues to reach theirs, so if there's one you want for availability purposes that's on Valm it's still possible to reach them early (except Inigo and Yarne, who require Morgan who in this case isn't available).

I guess you meant Brady?

[Bovinian]

It should be doable in 6 chapters with either a Seed of Trust or an Event Tile in each of the first two.

Also all children are reachable right off the bat following Cht.13 by using other child paralogues to reach theirs, so if there's one you want for availability purposes that's on Valm it's still possible to reach them early (except Inigo and Yarne, who require Morgan who in this case isn't available).

Those things are possible without a doubt, but it really depends on whether the player wants to put in the effort. They might not be bothered to make sure they are consistently getting the maximum possible support points per map for a given pair, so supporting with someone recruited much earlier allows for more flexibility with their playstyle. Also, even if child X's paralogue can be immediately accessed after Ch. 13 as long as child Y's paralogue has been unlocked, the player might not be planning to use child Y in that playthrough and thus may not want to train/support grind the associated parent.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Yep, meant Brady.

[isetrh]

Isetrh use chapter 4's and turn off all animations and skip enemy phase. Also do normal so you can spam buy reeking boxes to endless grind there. There might be a faster way but thats what I used.

So, I never thanked you for this. Sorry about that.

I'm on L+ so skirmishes don't really work, but you gave me the idea of trying to find the DLC map most similar to a skirmish, so thanks.

How many staffbots do you guys like to keep on hand? I'm looking to fill out my 20 Einherjar/Guest slots with characters who are useful or interesting in some way, but I'm only seeing 14 units (including two Charm Staffbots) who fit that. Add in Yololi (doing my part to make her live forever), and I have 5 slots that I was considering filling with more Staffbots. Dunno if 7 is a good number.

I could post the units who I'm looking at and my thought process for choosing them, but I doubt anyone else cares about optimizing the Einherjar/Guests. Tell me if I'm wrong and I will happily discuss.

Edited May 11, 2015 by isetrh

[Czar_Yoshi]

12 Staffbots is the maximum that would see any increase in usefulness in S.Apo, but 7 should be just fine.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[isetrh]

12 Staffbots is the maximum that would see any increase in usefulness in S.Apo, but 7 should be just fine.

12 seems kind of high. I'm guessing 4 pairs, and then with 12 Staffbots that's all 20 deployment slots. Is Olivia not good anymore?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Maximum that would see any increase != recommended number. That's just the point where extras will literally have nothing to do under just about any circumstances.

[isetrh]

I see. I'll go with 11 then. Thanks. Now to get 11 Valflames...