PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Alastor15243]

Oh. I was under the impression that you could run Vengeance as part of a regular Apo skillset, so if you don't kill the mob by the time it gets a chance to counterattack, it attacks, drops your HP, and then you have Vengeance damage on your next attack (within the same round). But I could be getting that completely mixed up. Guess I'll wait for Czar to comment. (Hi Czar! :-) )

I'll definitely hit you up if I decide to do no braves -- will see how hard I get stomped by no LB first. Thanks for the advice :-)

That strategy is nice on paper, the problem is that dual guards exist and can royally screw up your plans, so often you need to do something involving separating the units and leaving the vengeance one alone just in range of one, MAYBE two enemies to damage the vengeance unit.

The problem I find is that, at least on no-brave runs, since you're constantly getting counter-attacked and thus somebody has to be spamming fortify, this has to be done EVERY SINGLE TIME since your HP keeps resetting. But Czar_Yoshi insists it can still be practically done, and I'm sure he'll be happy to explain how.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Vascela]

I'll disagree with needing fortify every turn; v/v definitely seems plausible on paper right now for no dlc/no braves 100%. Then again, I'm also running 6 one hp vengeance users. So I have that going for me.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Czar_Yoshi, the resident Apotheosis master, likes Stahl!Owain, but be warned that his mods are absolutely inexcusable, with nothing higher than a 2. I usually go for Ricken so he at least has high magic.

I only look past it because Owain's mods always do that. You can't get an Owain with actually good mods without a +Spd Avatar fathering him.

The problem I find is that, at least on no-brave runs, since you're constantly getting counter-attacked and thus somebody has to be spamming fortify, this has to be done EVERY SINGLE TIME since your HP keeps resetting. But Czar_Yoshi insists it can still be practically done, and I'm sure he'll be happy to explain how.

A few things you can do:

-Have the pair split up in range of an enemy on the first turn of a wave, use a high Mov Rallybot (usually the one without +Mov) to Rescue the support away, out of range of the enemy but within range of the lead, let the lead take damage on EP 1, then move the support back behind the lead. This leaves you closer than the rest of your units to the enemy since you ended in range, so you have a good pick of who to use Vengeance on.

-Have the Vengeance unit attack and kill something far away that they can still safely fight.

-Move the rest of your team in. Kill the units who are nearby with GF, but don't use your second moves.

-Since the Vengeance unit(s) are fairly far away from the normal fighting units, you can use Fortify and heal only them. Leaving your Mag deliberately low on one Staffbot might be useful.

-From here, you play it by ear until the end of your turn- either pick another safe target to poke/kill, fight normally after healing up if there weren't any safe targets, etc.

Two other ways you could use it are to simply ignore dedicated setups and just be opportunistic, healing at the start of your turns instead of the end and letting any Vengeance users who took damage during the last turn to go again before you heal, and to use Counter to set up Vengeance, as it's a DG-proof source of damage that shows up in safe spots in waves 2 and 5. I tend to use these two more often when playing because they take significantly less forethought for the same reward (since all my units are designed to do everything, if I get no Vengeance I just fight hard things with someone else).

Oh. I was under the impression that you could run Vengeance as part of a regular Apo skillset, so if you don't kill the mob by the time it gets a chance to counterattack, it attacks, drops your HP, and then you have Vengeance damage on your next attack (within the same round). But I could be getting that completely mixed up. Guess I'll wait for Czar to comment. (Hi Czar! :-) )

Howdy!

You do typically run it as a regular proc in place of Luna (and Astra/Aether). It plays differently and not everyone likes it, but it does expand options a lot for units like Severa, Owain and Nah. I tend not to like VV and never recommend it unless you already know why you need it (need, not want).

The problem with relying on counterattacks for Vengeance boosts is the relying part- DGs happen pretty often in Apo (a little less without LB, but still very often) and will screw up your plans if you assume they won't happen, so you either need to go to lengthy lengths to insure they can't happen (fighting unpaired) or simply take advantage of when they don't happen but never count on it before the fact. It's similar to how Luna has an activation%, but here you get to see the roll one battle before you have to use it rather than at the attack itself.

So that leaves Nah, Gerome, Yarne; possible dads Henry, Ricken, Vaike, Fred, Virion. And all the kids except for Owain and Morgan. Thoughts?

Virion is a definite for Yarne, their synergy is some of the best in the game. Gerome will benefit most in a standard set from Henry, but Ricken is also on the table for a very non-standard Gerome: he'll have +3 Mag and Sage (same magical supporting power as a Gregor!Laurent), as well as +3 Str and Bowfaire/Warrior for a good physical support... As well as Bow Knight for a +3 Spd support. Nah takes both Henry and Vaike well, Vaike is more straightforward and works well if you're adverse to Vengeance, Henry has a ton of support/utility skills and can do more than one set that's almost unheard of anywhere else (Valkyrie and/or critstacking).

Fred, Kellam and one of Vaike or Ricken is just going to have to be a bachelor.

[Alastor15243]

Hey, I'm starting work on my Apotheosis No-Brave guide for Gamefaqs, and I thought I might run some of the stuff I'm putting in it past this thread for feedback:

WHAT YOU’RE DEALING WITH HERE

Alright, first off, I thought I’d take a second to explain what Apotheosis is and what you should be expecting to deal with.

Apotheosis Secret Route is an alternate version of the DLC challenge map Apotheosis, obtained by clearing the first wave of apotheosis in 2 turns or less, and it’s full of extremely difficult enemies armed to the teeth with illegally-forged weapons, extremely inflated stats reaching up to 70 or 80 (or in the case of luck for one enemy, 99), and skills that you’d normally only see on Grima, special units, or in Lunatic+. These guys are very powerful, and if you give them the opportunity, they will destroy you. So the key thing here is to not give them that opportunity. This essentially boils down to an extreme focus on player-phase combat and hit and run tactics. Enemy phase combat is almost entirely out of the question, and tanking is not remotely viable here. With very few exceptions, you want to design your party with all-out offense in mind. Defense, resistance and luck are largely irrelevant stats in this challenge run. In other runs, some minimum defense you might actually risk going under is important because otherwise certain enemies can one-round you, but in this challenge run, pretty much nothing can kill you in exactly one round of combat (aside from the nightmare sniper, who we’ll cover a little bit later). The idea is to have your units kill them before they have the chance to kill you. Either kill everything nearby in one turn, or kill as many as you can and then retreat to an area where they won’t be attacked much.

Most enemies will be armed with either Aegis+, Pavise+, or both. There are a couple who have neither, but they’re rare and usually only don’t have them because they have some freaky unfair skill combination that doesn’t leave room for it. Normally this would be irrelevant, because the majority of your damage comes from dual strikes which are immune to these skills, but not here. Here you only get four attacks, and half of them are affected by these skills, so you need to make sure you don’t attack the wrong enemies. In all likelihood you will not be able to kill an enemy who can resist your weapon’s attacks, so be prepared for this and mind who you send out against what enemies.

There are also several notable boss enemies, all of whom will give you hell if you’re not prepared for them, and in fact entire pairs can be justified if they’re really useful for taking down one of these guys, even if they’re mediocre at everything else:

(Note: when I say wave numbers, I am counting the first wave before secret route is activated as wave 1)

1: The Nightmare Sniper. Class: Sniper. Wave: 3.
HP: 80 Str: 76 Mag: 55 Skl: 83 Spd: 70 Lck: 60 Def: 70 Res: 46 Move: 6

He’s equipped with a hackforged brave bow and has Luna+, Pavise+, Aegis+, Vantage+ and Dragonskin.

His gimmick is that, to be blunt, IF YOU FACE HIM IN 2-RANGE COMBAT, THERE IS A VERY, VERY GOOD CHANCE YOU WILL INSTANTLY DIE. Thanks to his combination of Luna+, Vantage+ and his brave bow, not to mention his 70 speed, it’s physically impossible to have the stats to always survive a round of combat with him. The only way to reliably survive a round with him is to have 100% Miracle proc rate, 100% Aegis proc rate, or be a dodgetank assassin with a superior bow equipped. Mercifully, unlike his henchmen, he does not have counter, and since he doesn’t have pass either, it’s fairly straightforward to swarm him and neutralize him. Still, unless you have a few high-speed units, it might take quite a few to take him down.

2: The Invincisorc. Class: Sorcerer. Wave: 4
HP: 80 Str: 55 Mag: 74 Skl: 68 Spd: 60 Lck: 99 Def: 56 Res: 64 Move: 6

He’s equipped with two hackforged nosferatus and has vantage, miracle, dragonskin, luna+, and Pavise+.

His gimmick is that he’s basically the ultimate nosferatu tank, which for those unaware of the term is a unit that can survive wave after wave of enemy attacks by stealing the health of the enemies it fights and kills, and basically can only fall to a much more powerful opponent. Thankfully, your pairs meet that criteria generally, but he can still be a pain in the ass and normally requires multiple pairs to kill thanks to the huge amounts of HP he’ll take away from your units on his attacks, and the fact that he has Pavise (which generally guards against physical attacks) and high resistance to protect him from magical attacks. This generally means the best option for taking him down is a sniper, who can attack him without getting health-leeching counterattacks, attack his lower defense, and bypass his pavise+ all at the same time. Be warned that he doesn’t come alone, and that his weaker minions are all similarly annoying, though lacking his pavise+ and using vengeance instead.

3: Thronie. Class: Berserker. Wave: 5
HP: 99 Str: 80 Mag: 50 Skl: 65 Spd: 64 Lck: 65 Def: 59+5 Res: 55 Move: doesn’t move.

He’s equipped with Helswath, which enhances his already impressive defense, and has Counter, Dragonskin, Hawkeye, Luna+, and Aegis+.

This guy is probably the hardest unit to deal with in Apotheosis. He does heavy damage thanks to hawkeye and luna+, and most conventional builds aren’t properly equipped to reliably one-round him. Tomes don’t work because of his Aegis+, swords, lances and axes don’t work because of his defense (and his counter in most cases too), and bows don’t work because of both his defense and his Aegis+. To make matters worse, whoever attacks him has to be gotten out of there quick, because they’ll be in range of a bunch of shadowgift dark fliers with mire lurking in the top left corner, so you’ve gotta kill Thronie and be out of there fast, which means you generally can’t even just swarm him like with the Nightmare Sniper. And to make things worse, there’s a time limit, so you generally have to kill Thronie as soon as possible anyway to make sure you have enough time to deal with both those shadowgift mire snipers and the pavise sages with celice’s gale opposite them on the top right side of the map.

However, thankfully, there is a way to defeat him in one round of combat: Levin swords and bolt axes. They both pierce Aegis+ and attack his weaker resistance. If you set up a couple of units who are capable of effectively wielding those with high magical power, then you can reliably one-round Thronie and get out of the way quickly. This is why you will see me use the term “Thronieslayer” when describing the advantages of units and classes in this guide: this guy is such a hassle that he merits building an entire character around. But don’t worry, in most cases these Thronieslayer units will prove useful elsewhere if you build them properly.

4: Anna. Class: Merchant. Wave: 6
HP: 99 Str: 60 Mag: 50 Skl: 70 Spd: 70 Lck: 65 Def: 55 Res: 55 Mov: 5

She’s armed with a hackforged spear and a brave lance in the second slot, WHICH YOU DO NOT WANT HER TO USE ON YOU, and her skills are Aether, Counter, Dragonskin, Rightful God, and Vantage+.

Her gimmick is that you really do not want to give her a chance to attack you. She has a 65% chance of proccing Aether, and if she uses her brave lance then between that and her counter skill she can very easily kill anyone on your team if you let her fight you in melee. So basically you want to make sure she’s dead by the end of the turn you enter her attack range on. Here’s the problem: wave 6 is a boss rush, and you’ll have to fight all of the enemies I mentioned above again, along with their band of minions. You have to fight Nightmare Sniper and his four minions at the bottom of the map, you have to fight two invincisorcs on either side of the map along with two sorcerer minions each, and as for the top, you have to fight Anna, flanked by two full-fledged Thronies. Thankfully, lacking any defensive skills, she’s not as hard as the other enemies to dispatch as long as it’s at range, especially with longbows.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I'll disagree with needing fortify every turn; v/v definitely seems plausible on paper right now for no dlc/no braves 100%. Then again, I'm also running 6 one hp vengeance users. So I have that going for me.

You definitely shouldn't be using it every turn- what you want is the option to use it every turn to compensate for bad RNG. But if you're doing a completely controlled/precalculated run where all the damage you take is fully intentional, then you don't need the precaution and it'll only see as much use as you plan for.

Hey, I'm starting work on my Apotheosis No-Brave guide for Gamefaqs, and I thought I might run some of the stuff I'm putting in it past this thread for feedback:

Here you go:

-Opening: There's probably a better way to describe it than "an alternate version" because that could confuse people as to what they need to buy. I'd start by saying that Apo is a challenge map, then talking about how it has two routes, a little bit on the differences between the routes, and then explaining why you're going to be focusing on the Secret route, in that order. Also make sure to explain that and why you're not using braves.

-Talk about Rescue. It's a pretty important thing that wasn't common knowledge for far longer than it should have been. Same goes for Rallies, S ranks, and why you shouldn't trust Sol/Nos- remember that you're not writing an expansion to any existing guide, because there isn't one.

-It might be better to number the major bosses with something other than numbers (bullet points, -s like I'm doing, etc) because you've got two sets of numbers right now and that could be confusing.

-Invincisorc: might be better to say Vantage (not +) so people know it's not a typo.

-The Shadowgift DFs may try to snipe you, but it's probably best not to refer to them as Snipers. It's also a good idea to get rid of them before tackling Thronie so they don't bug you- I've never had turn limit trouble doing that even without a full team.

In general, give context for everything and remember that you're talking to a wide audience and there will be people who are much smarter than you're expecting, as well as people who are much, much... Less.

[Alastor15243]

Here you go:

-Opening: There's probably a better way to describe it than "an alternate version" because that could confuse people as to what they need to buy. I'd start by saying that Apo is a challenge map, then talking about how it has two routes, a little bit on the differences between the routes, and then explaining why you're going to be focusing on the Secret route, in that order. Also make sure to explain that and why you're not using braves. Done, and the explanation for no braves was in the section before the one I posted.

-Talk about Rescue. It's a pretty important thing that wasn't common knowledge for far longer than it should have been. Same goes for Rallies, S ranks, and why you shouldn't trust Sol/Nos- remember that you're not writing an expansion to any existing guide, because there isn't one. Will do once I reach the relevant section.

-It might be better to number the major bosses with something other than numbers (bullet points, -s like I'm doing, etc) because you've got two sets of numbers right now and that could be confusing. Done.

-Invincisorc: might be better to say Vantage (not +) so people know it's not a typo. Done.

-The Shadowgift DFs may try to snipe you, but it's probably best not to refer to them as Snipers. Done.

It's also a good idea to get rid of them before tackling Thronie so they don't bug you- I've never had turn limit trouble doing that even without a full team. I added that strategy to the guide, while making sure to clarify that this ONLY works for the original Thronie and not his minions or his clones in the next wave.

In general, give context for everything and remember that you're talking to a wide audience and there will be people who are much smarter than you're expecting, as well as people who are much, much... Less.

Oh, and here's the section I wrote on rally bots, as per your suggestion:

A QUICK ASIDE ON RALLY BOTS

Before I go any further with this guide, I thought I’d stop for a second and explain what rally bots are and why they’re important. Rally bots are units (generally Einherjar from DLC or Spotpass) whose sole purpose is to empower your other units with rally bonuses every turn. If you can get all ten rallies on a unit, this results in a round +10 to all of your stats (except for luck, which is +14) and +2 to movement, which is extremely useful and highly recommended to the point where not using them is actually considered a challenge run in and of itself. Here’s how you make them:

First, decide which type you want. There are two types of rally bots: twin rally bots, which are two units who have all 10 rally skills between them, and single rally bots, which have the 5 most important ones. The advantage of twin rally bots is that you can support a mixed group, while single rally bots generally can only support a physical or magical group, not both, and you also get increases to luck, def and res (generally unimportant) but also movement too, which is useful. The advantage of a single rally bot is that it only costs one character slot.

For twin rally bots you need a male and a female rally bot, giving the female one rally movement speed and heart and giving the male one rally strength, and then loading them up with the remaining 6 rally skills that either gender can get whichever way you like. You could technically use Katarina or Palla instead of the male one, but a male one is less of a hassle and those two are more useful for single rally bots.

For single rally bots you need either a female if you’re doing a magical one or a female with rally strength (Katarina, obtained by beating Apotheosis normal route, is one option, the other is Palla from clearing the bonus objective of Roster Rescue) if you’re doing a physical one. You give them rally spectrum, rally heart, rally skill, rally speed, and rally strength/magic.

You’ll want to make your rally bots flying classes, and you’ll also want to use the avatar logbook stat boost item trick (where you give a logbook unit a stat boost item, update them in the logbook with the stat boost item’s bonuses applied, save to a second file, load the first file and buy the updated version to keep the stat boost item you used) to give all of them the +2 movement of boots.

A lot of people like making all of their rally bots falcon knights if possible so that they can double as staff users in a pinch, though personally I prefer to make them all separate classes, because all of the einherjar units look identical in the same class most of the time (including all of the flying ones), and so this way you can tell them apart at a glance and don’t risk mixing them up.

You’ll generally want 2-4 of them for your team

Edited July 5, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

That should be good, but there is merit in making more than two (I'm using three and it works very well).

[onionkiri]

Two other ways you could use it are to simply ignore dedicated setups and just be opportunistic, healing at the start of your turns instead of the end and letting any Vengeance users who took damage during the last turn to go again before you heal, and to use Counter to set up Vengeance, as it's a DG-proof source of damage that shows up in safe spots in waves 2 and 5. I tend to use these two more often when playing because they take significantly less forethought for the same reward (since all my units are designed to do everything, if I get no Vengeance I just fight hard things with someone else).

...

You do typically run it as a regular proc in place of Luna (and Astra/Aether). It plays differently and not everyone likes it, but it does expand options a lot for units like Severa, Owain and Nah. I tend not to like VV and never recommend it unless you already know why you need it (need, not want).

The problem with relying on counterattacks for Vengeance boosts is the relying part- DGs happen pretty often in Apo (a little less without LB, but still very often) and will screw up your plans if you assume they won't happen, so you either need to go to lengthy lengths to insure they can't happen (fighting unpaired) or simply take advantage of when they don't happen but never count on it before the fact. It's similar to how Luna has an activation%, but here you get to see the roll one battle before you have to use it rather than at the attack itself.

Thanks Czar! That all makes sense. I think I'll run it as a regular proc in that case and be opportunistic -- I'd definitely like to avoid VV or a lengthy setup if I can help it. It's really only because I have a Libra!Inigo... I think everyone else who needs a proc has Luna.

Do skillsets tend to change a lot between LB and no-LB runs? I.e. run the same skillset you normally would but replace LB, or do a bit more juggling?

Also, I'm still debating child pairings... what do you think of these? (+Spd/-Def avatar)

Stahl!Owain x Cordelia!Morgan

Sumia!Lucina x Virion!Yarne

Gaius!Kjelle x Ricken/Henry!Gerome

Avatar!Severa x Libra!Inigo

Chrom!Cynthia x Gregor!Laurent

Vaike/Henry!Nah x Lon'qu!Brady

Still debating who Henry goes to -- I guess Kjelle won't ever be magical, so Henry!Gerome might make more sense than Ricken!Gerome, but Henry!Nah just sounds more fun. :-)

Sorry for all the questions!

[Alastor15243]

Thanks Czar! That all makes sense. I think I'll run it as a regular proc in that case and be opportunistic -- I'd definitely like to avoid VV or a lengthy setup if I can help it. It's really only because I have a Libra!Inigo... I think everyone else who needs a proc has Luna.

Do skillsets tend to change a lot between LB and no-LB runs? I.e. run the same skillset you normally would but replace LB, or do a bit more juggling?

Also, I'm still debating child pairings... what do you think of these? (+Spd/-Def avatar)

Stahl!Owain x Cordelia!Morgan

Sumia!Lucina x Virion!Yarne

Gaius!Kjelle x Ricken/Henry!Gerome

Avatar!Severa x Libra!Inigo

Chrom!Cynthia x Gregor!Laurent

Vaike/Henry!Nah x Lon'qu!Brady

Still debating who Henry goes to -- I guess Kjelle won't ever be magical, so Henry!Gerome might make more sense than Ricken!Gerome, but Henry!Nah just sounds more fun. :-)

Sorry for all the questions!

I'd go with Henry!Gerome and Vaike!Nah if you're going for those pairs, because Ricken!Gerome can't use the vitally important berserker class, which Gaius!Kjelle needs her husband to have to truly shine.

[DragonFlames]

I have another question as well. Which do you guys think is the best Morgan if I want to go for skill, speed and GaleForce?

I thought about giving him/her these skills for Apo:

Limit Breaker

Luna/Ignis

Astra

Galeforce

Lancebreaker (so that he/she might be able to take on Anna)

(alternatively Rightful King and/or Aether, depending on your suggestions)

Haven't decided on Avatar's asset and flaw yet and also haven't decided on male or female Avatar (+spd/skl is probably a given). I thought about a few options and wanted to have a second opinion.

For female Morgan:

Sumia

Say'ri

Gregor/Lon'qu!Severa (for 3rd Gen)

For male Morgan:

Lon'qu

maybe Chrom

Gregor/Lon'qu!Inigo/Owain (for 3rd Gen)

Thoughts?

Edited July 5, 2015 by DragonFlames

[Yuglyoshi]

If I were to do a lunatic playthrough with ChromxAvatar (thus getting Morgan and Lucina), and only one additional pairing, which pairing would you guys suggest? Is only one other pairing optimal for Lunatic? It's my first time attempting that difficulty, and I want to keep my army small. Would two additional pairings be better?

[DragonFlames]

If I were to do a lunatic playthrough with ChromxAvatar (thus getting Morgan and Lucina), and only one additional pairing, which pairing would you guys suggest? Is only one other pairing optimal for Lunatic? It's my first time attempting that difficulty, and I want to keep my army small. Would two additional pairings be better?

That depends if you plan on DLC-grinding, I guess. I'd suggest a Frederick/Lissa pair, since she boosts his resistance and he boosts her defence (and Owain is just too awesome to leave out)

[Yuglyoshi]

That depends if you plan on DLC-grinding, I guess. I'd suggest a Frederick/Lissa pair, since she boosts his resistance and he boosts her defence (and Owain is just too awesome to leave out)

No DLC-grinding. Is training children impossible without dlc grinding? It's been forever since I played this game.

[DragonFlames]

No DLC-grinding. Is training children impossible without dlc grinding? It's been forever since I played this game.

I don't think it's impossible. It's just harder to manage if you have more pairings and consequentially (is that even a word) children. That's why I asked if you wanted to DLC-grind.

[Alastor15243]

I have another question as well. Which do you guys think is the best Morgan if I want to go for skill, speed and GaleForce?

Lon'qu/Virion!Yarne!Morgan, hands down. Yarne has the best stats in the game in both categories. Lon'qu has one better skill and speed than Virion, but Virion's archer access makes Yarne a much better husband for FeMU than Lon'qu!Yarne would be.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Do skillsets tend to change a lot between LB and no-LB runs? I.e. run the same skillset you normally would but replace LB, or do a bit more juggling?

Precise builds (as in Unit@Class (skill/skill/skill/skill/skill) x Unit2@Class (skill/skill/skill/skill/skill)) will change a bit, but generally you'll still be caring about the same things: hitting some Spd threshold (you should never have a lead below 60 Spd on a non-LB run), at least one GF per pair, at least one proc on every unit who will ever be up front, Faires on everyone not named Lucina (and without LB she'll want one anyway) and Agg and LB wherever possible unless banned.

If you find yourself with more room than you need for that, adding mobility skills is always a good idea.

I have another question as well. Which do you guys think is the best Morgan if I want to go for skill, speed and GaleForce?

Female is +Mag/-Def Sumia!Lucina!Morgan@Valkyrie (LB/GF/Aether/Ignis/TF) with a Sage support (Chrom!Cynthia!Morgan is the same thing), and male is some version of Yarne!Morgan.

If I were to do a lunatic playthrough with ChromxAvatar (thus getting Morgan and Lucina), and only one additional pairing, which pairing would you guys suggest? Is only one other pairing optimal for Lunatic? It's my first time attempting that difficulty, and I want to keep my army small. Would two additional pairings be better?

I'd advise Gregor x Miriel.

Going as small as possible is always going to be "optimal", but it's not necessarily the most fun. Players who are good at the game can usually get away with up to five active pairs at once without significantly throwing themselves under the bus. But if you're not accustomed to Lunatic, I don't advise that.

[Ownagepuffs]

If I were to do a lunatic playthrough with ChromxAvatar (thus getting Morgan and Lucina), and only one additional pairing, which pairing would you guys suggest? Is only one other pairing optimal for Lunatic? It's my first time attempting that difficulty, and I want to keep my army small. Would two additional pairings be better?

Chrobin doesn't use other pairings. If you were doing a MaMU run, I'd have said Chromia x Robelia.

No DLC-grinding. Is training children impossible without dlc grinding? It's been forever since I played this game.

Lots of planning ahead makes it easy. A common suggestion is saving early Paralogues for the kids. I personally don't since using them when they are first available has greater returns, but it's an option nonetheless. Also, using other children Paralogues to train kids is a thing. Severa's Paralogue has lots of thief type enemies who give bonus exp.

[TheBakonBitz]

Came back from vacation today and I'm ready to resume my hard save file, which is going to be my post game/dlc file. How do these look?

Chrom with Sumia

Lissa with Ricken

Olivia with Frederick/Lon'Qu

Maribelle with Lon'Qu/Libra

Sully with Donnel

Sumia with Chrom

Cordelia with Stahl

Cherche with Vaike

Panne with Virion

Miriel with Gregor

Tharja with +Speed/-Luck Male Avatar

Nowi with Gaius

Not Paired:

Kellam

Libra

Henry

How does this look? Does Lon'Qu make Inigo better than Frederick does? Do Henry or Libra make Brady better than Lon'Qu does? Thanks for all the help thus far and don't be afraid to critique my pairings further.

[Alastor15243]

Came back from vacation today and I'm ready to resume my hard save file, which is going to be my post game/dlc file. How do these look?

Chrom with Sumia

Lissa with Ricken

Olivia with Frederick/Lon'Qu

Maribelle with Lon'Qu/Libra

Sully with Donnel

Sumia with Chrom

Cordelia with Stahl

Cherche with Vaike

Panne with Virion

Miriel with Gregor

Tharja with +Speed/-Luck Male Avatar

Nowi with Gaius

Not Paired:

Kellam

Libra

Henry

How does this look? Does Lon'Qu make Inigo better than Frederick does? Do Henry or Libra make Brady better than Lon'Qu does? Thanks for all the help thus far and don't be afraid to critique my pairings further.

Frederick with Olivia and Lon'Qu with Maribelle, definitely. Inigo needs Luna and Brady wants speed and maybe astra, that's really all he wants.

Also, if you're marrying Tharja, have Gaius go with Sully and have Henry go with Nowi. Gaius!Kjelle is crazy fast and can do some really awesome stuff, and Nah will never be able to use galeforce properly without the avatar's inheritance. Henry gives Nah some good classes and skills she can use as a female hard support.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Alastor15243

[DragonFlames]

Female is +Mag/-Def Sumia!Lucina!Morgan@Valkyrie (LB/GF/Aether/Ignis/TF) with a Sage support (Chrom!Cynthia!Morgan is the same thing), and male is some version of Yarne!Morgan.

Lon'qu/Virion!Yarne!Morgan, hands down. Yarne has the best stats in the game in both categories. Lon'qu has one better skill and speed than Virion, but Virion's archer access makes Yarne a much better husband for FeMU than Lon'qu!Yarne would be.

Thank you guys! :D I'll try both out and see which one fits my tastes better!

[Alastor15243]

Hey, when I eventually get to the children in my guide, I'm planning on talking about a deliberately horrible pairing for each child so that I also explain what NOT to do in addition to what you SHOULD (and also because, as everyone knows, talking about stuff that sucks is a lot of fun).

I'm thinking of going for either the worst pairing for each child or a pairing that's bad in some unique way and highlights a potential mistake with pairings. Here's what I have planned for this:

Sully!Lucina/Chrom!Kjelle (worst pairing in the game because it's the only one that ruins TWO children simultaneously)

Vaike!Owain (Horrific mod clash and no procs)

Gregor!Inigo (Total Class Overlap)

Kellam!Morgan (Gives Morgan NONE of the three things you could want from a mate for the avatar: Unique classes/skills, amazing mods, or a sibling)

Kellam!Yarne (Prevents him from being an effective hard support OR breeding partner)

Would anybody contest these choices? Does anyone have any nominations for other children's worst parents?

Edited July 6, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

I nominate Fred!Gerome.

The one thing you should be careful of is overusing Kellam as a bad parent, because he's pretty close to bottom for everyone and there are usually other choices- for example, Tiki!Morgan will not only have a perma-weakness and bad mods for postgame, but comes late ingame and gives Avatar one of the worst postgame wives in the game (definitely explain parent synergy for Morgans- Kellam!Nah!Morgan is an example of a Morgan who looks good in a vacuum but has meh parents). Gaius!Yarne could also be used to talk about opportunity cost.

Basically, try to get each pairing so you can use them to illustrate a particular problem that applies to children in general, rather than simply showing a bad pairing and saying why it's bad.

[Nobody]

So, I'm curious about what you guys think about Aversa!Morgan. Is she good? Is Aversa a decent enough wife for the avatar?

[Alastor15243]

I nominate Fred!Gerome.

The one thing you should be careful of is overusing Kellam as a bad parent, because he's pretty close to bottom for everyone and there are usually other choices- for example, Tiki!Morgan will not only have a perma-weakness and bad mods for postgame, but comes late ingame and gives Avatar one of the worst postgame wives in the game (definitely explain parent synergy for Morgans- Kellam!Nah!Morgan is an example of a Morgan who looks good in a vacuum but has meh parents). Gaius!Yarne could also be used to talk about opportunity cost.

Fair enough, FeMU X Kellam would indeed fare better as a pair than Tiki and MaMU. I was just using Kellam because he's the embodiment of everything you don't want in an avatar mate in terms of what Morgan gets: crappy mods, no new skills or classes, and no additional sibling to benefit from the avatar's mods. But then, the idea that Tiki is a good mate because she offers Manakete is a fallacy I'd probably want to stamp out too.

So, I'm curious about what you guys think about Aversa!Morgan. Is she good? Is Aversa a decent enough wife for the avatar?

Oh as long as you're okay with using vengeance, Aversa's got everything she needs to be a good battle partner for a male avatar. You will still have to drop a female unit though, probably Nah, but that's not always that huge of a loss. You basically replace Nah with Aversa on your team.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

Aversa is one of the best three 1st gen wives as far as Avatar's concerned (the other two being Sumia and Cordelia). Her Morgan is probably the worst of the three, but still turns out nicely with +Mag.