PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Czar_Yoshi]

We theorycraft in this thread. We tailor make every pairing for every situation. We have someone here who has built a full squad of 100% DS. This thread isn't meant to make Apo seem like an insurmountable mountain (aside for Airship, whose challenge is pretty extreme), we just like to kill shit dead. That's what min maxing is about.

That being said, the players in this thread do not represent the majority. Apotheosis is indeed a map that will eat you alive several times to a majority of the people playing Awakening.

Two people, actually. Me and Zoran (I think that was his name).

Anyway, as I see it we focus on outdoing not Apo, but other player teams in terms of performance. I'm pretty sure at this point Apo can be done with just about anything- I'm currently looking into routing a post-Cht.4 S.Apo run with no Wireless/DLC/grinding/Par.1/whatever (but we'll see if that's possible). And at doing a base level N.Apo solo with other, non-Chrom units (I'm starting to think Sumia can actually do it without statboosters, even, and Cordelia might even be able to handle no DLC skills). And at a two-unit clear of S.Apo. It's kind of crazy, really.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Kamui vi Britannia]

Two people, actually. Me and Zoran

A 100% DS requires 160 Skill, correct? Assuming Assasin Lonqu!Yarne S supported with Sniper MU(+Skl, -Def) with Yarne in front, he has 64+10(Pair Up, Tonics)+10(Rallies)+2(All+2) + 62+10(Rallies)+2(Tonics)=160 Skl. I assume you would need a lot of similar pairs to build such a team.

Edited December 25, 2014 by CloudJumper

[Alastor15243]

A 100% DS requires 160 Skill, correct? Assuming Assasin Lonqu!Yarne S supported with Sniper MU(+Skl, -Def) with Yarne in front, he has 64+10(Pair Up, Tonics)+10(Rallies)+2(All+2) + 62+10(Rallies)+2(Tonics)=160 Skl. I assume you would need a lot of similar pairs to build such a team.

Well Robin's supposed to be in front in that case so she has AS+2 too to compensate for the 1 lower skill pairup bonus. I think the key to doing this properly is to make sure the archer class tree is spread properly so that skill+2 can be put on hard supports liberally.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

The key to doing it is first to make sure it's the most important thing on your list (conflicting priorities will cause you to drop pretty much all but 1-2 of your pairs) and then to figure out the maximum possible Skl for each version of each child in front and in back (whether or not Defender counts depends on whether or not you want to use it. I did. Barracks definitely shouldn't count). You'll also never make it if you concentrate your Skl too close together- Yarne's base is too high to warrant a great father like Lon'qu.

[koen_happy]

Still new to the game but this will be my second playtrough. Any thoughts on my pairings?

Chrom - Sumia
Lissa - Ricken
Olivia - Libra
Maribelle - Avatar
Sully - Donnel
Sumia - Chrom
Cordelia - Stahl
Cherche - Frederick
Panne - Kellam
Miriel - Gregor
Tharja - Gaius
Nowi - Vaike

[Czar_Yoshi]

Unless you're doing postgame/DLC it both won't matter and you won't need to (or be able to) pair everyone up.

If you are doing postgame, the only eyebrow raiser there is Fred x Cherche- that pairing will leave Gerome without a Faire and no complete sets to run. You should definitely swap him with Virion, who is conveniently free.

[Kamui vi Britannia]

I recently completed creating my team for my apotheosis challenge run(1st gen only), I am now allowed to use Aversa. Below is the team, please let me know what you all think.

Chrom supporting Sumia [100% DS Pair]

Chrom [bow Knight]: Dual Strike+, Bowfaire, Hit Rate +20, Aggressor, LB

Sumia [Dark Flier]: Luna, Tomefaire, All Stats +2, Galeforce, LB

It works.

+Mag/-Str Male Avatar supporting Aversa

Avatar [sage]: Armsthrift, Tomefaire, Aggressor, All Stats +2, LB

Aversa [Dark Flier]: Vengeance, Deliverer, Shadowgift, Galeforce, LB

Support safe avatar. Shadowgift on Aversa for Mire

Gaius supporting Maribelle

Gaius [Hero]: Pass, All Stats +2, Swordfaire, Aggressor, LB

Maribelle [Valkyrie]: Dual Support+, Tomefaire, All Stats +2, Galeforce, LB

No idea what Gaius skills should be except for the last three. Valkyrie because rescue stave.

Stahl supporting Cordelia

Stahl [Paladin]: Luna, Swordfaire, All Stats +2, Aggressor, LB

Cordelia [Falcon Knight]: Armsthrift, Lancefaire, All Stats +2, Galeforce, LB

Falcon Knight so that Cordelia can use her only faire. Will be ending turns with Stahl.

Ricken supporting Lissa

Ricken [sage]: Luna, Tomefaire, Aggressor, All Stats +2, LB

Lissa [Valkyrie]: Dual Support+, Tomefaire, All Stats +2, Galeforce, LB

Random husband for Lissa. Valkyrie again for rescue.

Prince Marth supporting Ike [spotpass- DLC]

Prince Marth [Lodestar]: Dual Strike+, Dual Support+, Aggressor, Swordfaire, LB

Ike [sniper]: Aether, Luna, Bowfaire, Aggressor, LB

Ike as sniper, Prince Marth increases the low frequency of dual strikes. Unsure whether to replace Ike with DLC Seliph for Galeforce. I really need advice for sets on some of the husbands. Thanks for the help.

Edited December 26, 2014 by CloudJumper

[Czar_Yoshi]

So having the Agg unit in the back means you get twice as many attacks from the Agg unit, which in turn doubles the bonus from Agg. As a result, you're looking at a 20-40 point drop in Atk from switching the husband up front just for a little proc boost, which isn't going to be nearly that much. By the same logic, Pass is useless on Gaius because you don't want him to ever be up front.

Use more of the Stat+2 skills, they're great filler and do actually make a difference. Hit/Avo+10 skills also make good filler.

Falco Cordelia with LF has only 1 more Atk than she'd have as a Sword Hero with no Faire and the same as a Faireless Axe hero. She can do well as a Falco, but don't do it for the Atk.

[Alastor15243]

So having the Agg unit in the back means you get twice as many attacks from the Agg unit, which in turn doubles the bonus from Agg. As a result, you're looking at a 20-40 point drop in Atk from switching the husband up front just for a little proc boost, which isn't going to be nearly that much. By the same logic, Pass is useless on Gaius because you don't want him to ever be up front.

Use more of the Stat+2 skills, they're great filler and do actually make a difference. Hit/Avo+10 skills also make good filler.

Falco Cordelia with LF has only 1 more Atk than she'd have as a Sword Hero with no Faire and the same as a Faireless Axe hero. She can do well as a Falco, but don't do it for the Atk.

Especially since Sword Hero Cordelia can put on AS+2 in place of a faire and thus have one MORE attack than LF falco Cordelia.

...Or... wait... actually I guess she doesn't have enough skills in her pool to need to drop AS+2 for a faire anyway.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Alastor15243

[Cat1803]

Not a pairing-specific question, but it will affect some pairing choices:

What's a good alternative for Berserker? (I've seen them praised as good support units, but I don't like the low Skl cap) Looking for an Axe-using class that gives +Spd. Hero jumps out immediately, but I was wondering what anyone else's thoughts were. Thanks in advance.

[Ownagepuffs]

You answered your own question. Hero. It's 8 less Str than Zerker but has like 11 more Skill IIRC.

Alternatively, you could roll with Warrior. No +Spd on pair up but and 2 less Str hut equal +Str on pair up and significantly higher accuracy due to 42 Skill or they could even use bows and bows rock.

The only other Axe wielding class that gives +Spd besides hero and zerker is Dread Fighter. 2 less spd on pair up but +res and str

[Cat1803]

You answered your own question. Hero. It's 8 less Str than Zerker but has like 11 more Skill IIRC.

Alternatively, you could roll with Warrior. No +Spd on pair up but and 2 less Str hut equal +Str on pair up and significantly higher accuracy due to 42 Skill or they could even use bows and bows rock.

The only other Axe wielding class that gives +Spd besides hero and zerker is Dread Fighter. 2 less spd on pair up but +res and str

Thanks! Wanted to make sure I didn't derp and miss anything looking at the pairup bonuses. I'll look at my pairings and see what works best for each between Hero, Warrior, and DF.

[Ownagepuffs]

The b and h are so close on my goddamn phone touch pad grrr.

Anyway, Hero is kind of an idiot proof support partner.

[Alastor15243]

Thanks! Wanted to make sure I didn't derp and miss anything looking at the pairup bonuses. I'll look at my pairings and see what works best for each between Hero, Warrior, and DF.

Unless you're talking about a galeboy though, berserker's lack of skill isn't a problem, just make sure they get the archer or dark mage class line and they'll have a hit+ skill that'll compensate for it and let them lay on some serious hurt.

[Cat1803]

Unless you're talking about a galeboy though, berserker's lack of skill isn't a problem, just make sure they get the archer or dark mage class line and they'll have a hit+ skill that'll compensate for it and let them lay on some serious hurt.

I was more concerned about DS rates than hit thresholds, but I'll definitely keep that in mind. I'll consider plopping Henry on Gerome for Zerker/Axefaire and Anathema since I never seem to know what to do for Gerome anyway.

[Alastor15243]

I was more concerned about DS rates than hit thresholds, but I'll definitely keep that in mind. I'll consider plopping Henry on Gerome for Zerker/Axefaire and Anathema since I never seem to know what to do for Gerome anyway.

In that case, at the very least I recommend trying a berserker on a sniper lucina (with DS+ she reaches 100% DS almost no matter what). It's an absolutely devastating duo, in my opinion the single best combination in the entire game, especially when you go into no-brave runs.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Alastor15243

[Cat1803]

In that case, at the very least I recommend trying a berserker on a sniper lucina (with DS+ she reaches 100% DS almost no matter what). It's an absolutely devastating duo, in my opinion the single best combination in the entire game, especially when you go into no-brave runs.

Thanks for the advice. I've only done Normal Apo so far, but I'm planning on some challenge runs after I get a feel for Secret, and no-brave is up there. Brave weapons kinda break...everything.

[Alastor15243]

Thanks for the advice. I've only done Normal Apo so far, but I'm planning on some challenge runs after I get a feel for Secret, and no-brave is up there. Brave weapons kinda break...everything.

Some other things you should know about no-brave runs:

Have your fun with vengeance while you can, because on no-brave runs it's horrible. Your team is going to be taking way more hits on no-brave runs, forcing you to use fortify staves to keep your team functional, which will ruin your vengance setups, so no longer will you be able to just get hit once and run through the rest of the map. And dual guards make it highly unreliable to set up on the fly. Definitely go with Luna/ignis as your primary proc for your characters on no-brave runs.

Pairups that improve the relevant attack stat are very important, and you'll want to make sure that fighters have a +str pairup and mages have a +mag pairup whenever remotely possible. Every point of damage counts.

Snipers are, hands down, the single best class in the entire game. Aether-using snipers in particular are amazing, especially when backed up by berserkers. There are so many enemies that powerful snipers make easier to fight. Best of all, Sumia!Lucina and Chrom!Cynthia both have just enough speed to be able to hit 75 with a berserker pairup. I highly recommend you pair Chrom and Sumia and then make at least one of their daughters an aether sniper with a +hit berserker pairup. Hell, there's a way to make THREE of them (Sumia!Lucina and a MaMU who doesn't have a negative speed mod, Chrom!Cynthia and Stahl!Yarne, and then Sumia!Lucina!Morgan and Henry!Gerome). But I personally haven't done that before, I found that one Aether sniper was enough.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

The b and h are so close on my goddamn phone touch pad grrr.

Anyway, Hero is kind of an idiot proof support partner.

Not as bad as a sticky Y key (fortunately only one of my machines has one of those). If often makes your come out as our and that just sounds ridiculous (and isn't caught by spellcheck).

I was more concerned about DS rates than hit thresholds, but I'll definitely keep that in mind. I'll consider plopping Henry on Gerome for Zerker/Axefaire and Anathema since I never seem to know what to do for Gerome anyway.

Hit is actually the bigger deal.

-11 Skl on Berserker is a 2.75% DS loss, but since DS rounds down it's either -3% or -2%. Unless you're trying for 100% without DS+, that's actually not that big. And it's only -5 over the average cap of 40, which is -1.25%.

Hitwise, however, -11 Skl translates to -16.5 Hit. On a unit with a 60 base Hit weapon (85 after a +5/15 forge and with a neutral weapon matchup), that's a big loss- 220 is the general minimum acceptable Hit for a unit in S.Apo (perfect hit on all non-bosses bar WTD), and with an 85 Hit weapon you still need 135 from stats/skills. That takes around 70 Skl and 60 Lck to 60 Skl and 75 Lck- pretty hard to get on a Berserker.

Anyway, Hit+20 is usually used to patch up hitrates so they're not a big deal either when taken care of properly. My personal biggest beef with them is that they're hideous.

As for alternatives to Berserker, Warrior and General give similar high Str boosts with massive DSes while trading better hit for no +Spd, while Hero and Assassin give much higher Skl +Spd supports, at the cost of far weaker dual strikes. Axes themselves aren't very important as they're only 1 Atk stronger than Swords and Lances with a neutral matchup, so their bonus pales in comparison to higher stats in the first place.

A full alternative- something with incredible Str, Skl and Spd- would have no real drawbacks (no, low defenses don't matter), so it doesn't really exist.

[Ownagepuffs]

A full alternative- something with incredible Str, Skl and Spd- would have no real drawbacks (no, low defenses don't matter), so it doesn't really exist.

Throw in high defenses for kicks and you get the GBA paladin class

Awakening's higher caps really help to differentiate the classes.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Throw in high growths on top of that and you get Seth.

[izanagi61]

seeing as there isn't one in the first post, and reading 160+ pages of pairing talk i barely understand would be a bit insane, can anyone give me some pairing recommendations for lunatic? this'll be my first lunatic run and i want my pairs to be the best it can be. just keep in mind i know very little about pairing in general.

[Nic]

seeing as there isn't one in the first post, and reading 160+ pages of pairing talk i barely understand would be a bit insane, can anyone give me some pairing recommendations for lunatic? this'll be my first lunatic run and i want my pairs to be the best it can be. just keep in mind i know very little about pairing in general.

I have the same doubt, but I don't want to be the best pairs and I have some characters I want to use:

ChromxSumia

MaMUxCordelia

Oliviax????

Pannex????

Gaiusx????

Gregorx????

I have a lot of blank spaces =|...

[Czar_Yoshi]

seeing as there isn't one in the first post, and reading 160+ pages of pairing talk i barely understand would be a bit insane, can anyone give me some pairing recommendations for lunatic? this'll be my first lunatic run and i want my pairs to be the best it can be. just keep in mind i know very little about pairing in general.

Yeah, don't do that. This topic is so old that the posts halfway through would openly scoff at how bad the early posts are, and yet would merit raised eyebrows even now.

That said, fewer is better. Either use Avatar x Chrom or Chrom x Sumia and Avatar x Cordelia/Nowi as your core pairings. Any of Cordelia, Nowi, Panne and Lissa are fine to bring along as well, along with their husbands, but don't try to use too many units (five pairs max, three is better).

I have the same doubt, but I don't want to be the best pairs and I have some characters I want to use:

ChromxSumia

MaMUxCordelia

Oliviax????

Pannex????

Gaiusx????

Gregorx????

I have a lot of blank spaces =|...

Then pair Gaius x Olivia and Gregor x Panne.

[astrophys]

Why do you suggest Nowi as a possibility?

Chrom x Sumia and Avatar x Cordelia make sense to me. The character you're forced to deploy and the character who is likely leveled the most paired up with (eventual) Galeforce wives. Not to mention that both Sumia and Cordelia are fast and are likely to be able to double quite a lot. And if for some reason you recruited the children you'd be able to grab 4 Galeforce girls from the children of these two couples (potentially passing Galeforce itself immediately down to them).

But what's so great about Nowi as a unit (as I assume we're only considering gameplay here) to make it as Avatar x Cordelia/Nowi? I mean, sure, Avatar can grant Nah Galeforce, but then I see topics arguing that even then that Avatar!Nah is still not that great of an idea.

You seem to be more knowledgeable about the game's theory than I am, so I'm interested in hearing what your reasoning is. I could very well learn something.