ckc22 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Time for more Aether damage calcs. I'll assume the target is Anna as always. What are your Atk and Mag stats? with lb/rally/tonic/pairup/mods taken into account: 68 str, 56 mag, 86 skill, 75 speed Seriously? 100% DS rate? Let's check that... With a Sniper and a hero, you need a mod/ability skill bonus total of 14 to 100% DS. Morgan has +8 Skill, and Gregor!Laurent has... 4 + 2, totals to six. You're right! Wow, didn't even think about that! Yeah that sounds like it's probably the way to go, though an assassin support would probably be better for your attack output, as it would offer the needed speed AND give you 4 more strength. But that's just 2 damage per attack, it's almost negligible, it sounds like it could work. My thought was that by switching to Assassin, Morgan gains 4 str, but Laurent loses 2 and gets pushed into using a sword, which seems like a net loss to damage from the pair. Edited January 20, 2015 by ckc22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Ah... Shame though, for a second I was actually interested in using defender. I've got it on like four units in my 100% DS team. The thing about it is, when you're running Skl+2 to hit a DS threshold but then wind up being 1 over... Switching to it doesn't drop you under that threshold but does give you a small boost to other stats. It's quite useful in that very specific context. There's no room for it in standard LB/GF/Faire/Proc/Proc builds, though, since it only ever is put on after All+2 is already in place and would leave two slots at most for things like GF, Agg, Faires and Procs. with lb/rally/tonic/pairup/mods taken into account: 68 str, 56 mag, 86 skill, 75 speed That Atk stat seems really low. Are you sure (don't forget to add your weapon of choice)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 with lb/rally/tonic/pairup/mods taken into account: 68 str, 56 mag, 86 skill, 75 speed My thought was that by switching to Assassin, Morgan gains 4 str, but Laurent loses 2 and gets pushed into using a sword, which seems like a net loss to damage from the pair. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckc22 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) That Atk stat seems really low. Are you sure (don't forget to add your weapon of choice)? Oops. Sorry about that I'm new to the damage calc part. So her atk would be 68 (from above) + 14 (forged mt wep) + 2 (rank bonus) = 84 I think? I'm just curious in terms of calculating stats I know that 160 is the DS100% threshold, and 75 is the doubling anna threshold, are there any other thresholds you use when making pairs - I'm assuming hit is an important one. Edited January 20, 2015 by ckc22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 The big Hit threshold is 220- that's what you need for 100% on all non-boss enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Noodle Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Support? Why would you be using Henry!Cynthia as a support unit? Edit: Sorry, double post, I realized it just after I pressed the button. Idk, then what about as lead? I was thinking GF - TF - LB - DG+ - AS+2. But then again I am a complete noob at this and have no idea what I'm doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckc22 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) The big Hit threshold is 220- that's what you need for 100% on all non-boss enemies. Do you have an example of how to do the damage calc? I looked through a bit of the thread but didn't see much and there's a lot to dig through. (thanks for all the help btw!) Edited January 20, 2015 by ckc22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Idk, then what about as lead? I was thinking GF - TF - LB - DG+ - AS+2. But then again I am a complete noob at this and have no idea what I'm doing. Yeah, the better option would be GF/LB/Luna/AS+2/Tomefaire. Personally I prefer Chrom!Cynthia so she can replace AS+2 with Aether and maybe go Sniper instead, but Henry!Cynthia works pretty well too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabeasty Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 So, I'm trying to figure out if there's a better way that I can pair up Donnel!Kjelle and Frederick!Inigo. They both have so many options (and very similar class sets) that I can't find a clear answer. I currently have Kjelle as a Paladin and Inigo as a Wyvern Lord. Wyvern Lord gives a very nice STR boost, and Paladin offers +STR, SKL, and SPD. I've considered making one of them a General, maybe Kjelle since she has room for Deliverer. I'm just really not sure what to do, there has to be some combination of classes that is the most efficient. Anyone have any input? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Do you have an example of how to do the damage calc? I looked through a bit of the thread but didn't see much and there's a lot to dig through. (thanks for all the help btw!) I know I'm procrastinating but I'll do one tomorrow. I've had a bit of a long day. You can look here if you're impatient: http://serenesforest.net/awakening/miscellaneous/calculations/ Diabeasty: Is there some specific threshold you need them to overcome or goal you want them to meet? Because if not, this is the kind of situation were I prefer to let aesthetics tip the balance and go with classes I think just look cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Diabeasty: Is there some specific threshold you need them to overcome or goal you want them to meet? Because if not, this is the kind of situation were I prefer to let aesthetics tip the balance and go with classes I think just look cool. Story of my life. Edited January 20, 2015 by Ownagepuffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckc22 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) So this is my foray into attempting a damage calc, but essentially I came up with the conclusion that at 84/56/86 aether/luna/faire is more effective than a/l/ignis (Not sure if decimals round down/up for this stuff) Any way you slice it I'm pretty confident that the pair can orko her by themselves. damage = attack + wtb - def attack = str + weapon mt + wrb so morgan's attack = 68 + 14+ 2 = 84 damage = 84 + 0 -55 = 29 for a normal hit /2 (dragonskin) = 15 damage = 84 + 0 - 28 = 56 for a luna hit /2 (dragonskin) = 28 ignis damage = 84 + 28 +0 - 55 = 57 / 2 (dragonskin) = 29 aether proc = 86/2 = 43 * (15+28) = 1849 luna proc = (100-43)*86 = 49 *28 = 1372 ignis proc = (100-43-49)*86 = 7 * 29 = 203 nothing proc = (100-43-49-7)= 1 * 15 = 15 sum of above = 3439/100 = 35 average damage vs. w/faire damage = 89 - 55 = 34 / 2 (dragonskin) = 17 luna dmg = 89 - 28 = 61/2 = 31 aether proc = 86/2 = 43 * (17+31) = 2064 luna proc = (100-43)*86 = 49 *31= 1519 nothing proc = (100-43-49)= 8 * 17 = 136 sum of above = 3719/100 = 37 avg dmg Edited January 20, 2015 by ckc22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonch Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Alright. I'm going for a mostly optimal playthrough, and want to know what I should pair people with, and what the children classes should be. So far, here's people I have, and this list is willing to change: Lucas(me) and Lucina (my choice, mostly preference. Of course, god Morgan is nice too.) Chrom X Olivia Cordelia X Stahl Sumia X Henry Lissa X Ricken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamui vi Britannia Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Alright. I'm going for a mostly optimal playthrough, and want to know what I should pair people with, and what the children classes should be. So far, here's people I have, and this list is willing to change: Lucas(me) and Lucina (my choice, mostly preference. Of course, god Morgan is nice too.) Chrom X Olivia Cordelia X Stahl Sumia X Henry Lissa X Ricken There is nothing wrong with your pairings per say, but you might run in to some issues which I will expound upon below. First, what is your avatar's asset/flaw. Below are the suggested children classes: Chrom!Inigo: A hero or sniper Stahl!Severa: Hero Henry!Cynthia: Dark Flier Ricken!Owain: Sage The problem with pairing Chrom with Olivia is that you essentially "lose" an apotheosis capable attack pair, because you want Olivia unpaired in order to make use of her dance, so Chrom is going to be stuck as a paladin or bow knight ferrying around supplies with the convoy. The pairing is only really done to have a Chrom fathered Inigo, making use of Chrom's Luna as well as RFK inheritance for street pass. Chrom is better paired with Sumia to maximize Aether inheritance, in the form of Sumia!Lucina!Morgan, and Sumia is Chrom's best wife for combat. Stahl!Severa is good, but has fallen out of favor in recent times. Severa can make better use of Virion (as a Wyvern Lord or Dark Flier), Lon'qu (as a Wyvern Lord), or even Vaike (high strength hero with luna). This also frees up Stahl to father someone like Inigo, Gerome, or Yarne. That said, there is nothing horribly wrong with your pairings, all the pairings you have listed are more than workable. Edited January 21, 2015 by CloudJumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So this is my foray into attempting a damage calc, but essentially I came up with the conclusion that at 84/56/86 aether/luna/faire is more effective than a/l/ignis (Not sure if decimals round down/up for this stuff) Any way you slice it I'm pretty confident that the pair can orko her by themselves. Those results look like about what I was expecting, though Aether/Ignis will probably have slightly higher output than Aether/Luna. Things in Awakening always round down, by the way. Also keep in mind that Anna has a Throne which provides +3 unpiercable Def/Res (so she'll have 58 vs non-Luna and 30 vs Luna). Please give me what is considered the best options for children, thank you. No such thing. Awakening's inheritance system is too dynamic for there to be The One Team. ah ha. I thought Olivia was Chroms best wife (barring Avatar, they're always the best marriage for everyone) because Lucina gets the best stats from it. Sumia's mods are much better than Olivia's, Sumia gives Lucina better skills than Olivia does, and Chrom gives Cynthia both better mods and skills than Henry (her second best option) and his skills are also better on her than they are on Inigo. Avatar actually isn't the best spouse for everyone, even taking opportunity cost for other units into account. He can't pass Aether to Cynthia, which she wants more than anything he has to offer. There are also quite a few children (Everyone except Lucina, Noire, Nah and Gerome, as a matter of fact) who get nothing of use from Avatar outside of +1/2 in a certain mod due to already having access to all the optimal skillsets their mods support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckc22 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 When I did it with my previous calculations - so they aren't exactly correct, but should be pretty close, it looks like luna vs ignis is about the same effectiveness. So I think I'll go with Aether/Ignis/Faire because I feel like it makes her more of a special snowflake and shows off her heritage haha :) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Luna is better when the foe's Def/Res is higher than your alternate Atk stat. Your alternate Atk stat gets an automatic +25 boost from LB/Rally/Pairup/Tonic so is generally at least 55 (assuming not GK) and ranges up to 15-20 higher depending on whether you're in a balanced Atk class, have a balanced pairup or have balanced Atk mods. In Apo, 55 is on the higher scale of defensive stats- while there are a few enemies that are higher than it, most non-Bosses are only +1-3 points on it while stats ranging as low as 40 are very common. So unless you're fighting the stronger Bosses on their stronger defensive stat with no special alternate Atk boosts, Ignis is on par with or better than Luna- and of course it's way better everywhere else. In fact, there are no enemies with both defensive stats notably above 55- the highest secondary defense in Apo is Ikeadin (Ragnell Paladin)'s Res at 57. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamui vi Britannia Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Sooo..I know people better at the game than me have been working at this, but I want to try my hand at this. I wanted to create a simple pairing guide for Apotheosis, detailing the ability of each possible child unit. Attached here is a sample analysis, could you all please take a look and see what you think about the formatting and structure. This pairing was a fairly simple one to write (Sumia!Lucina), but if I do more like this I will most assuredly come to this thread for help. Well, here it is. Default Lucina: Classes Available: Lord, Great Lord, Cavalier, Paladin, Great Knight, Archer, Sniper, Bow Knight, Bride. Skills Available: Dual Strike+, Charm, Aether, Rightful King, Discipline, Outdoor Fighter, Defender, Aegis, Luna, Dual Guard+, Skill +2, Prescience, Hit Rate +20, Bowfaire, Rally Skill, Bowbreaker, Rally Heart, Bonds, All Stats+2, Paragon, Limit Break ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sumia!Lucina: Modifiers: 1 Mag / 4 Skl / 5 Spd / 2 Lck / -2 Def / 1 Res New Classes Available: Pegasus Knight, Falcon Knight, Dark Flier, Knight, General, Cleric, War Cleric, Sage. New Skills Available: Speed +2. Relief, Rally Speed, Lancefaire, Rally Movement, Galeforce, Defense +2, Indoor Fighter, Rally Defense, Pavise, Miracle, Healtouch, Rally Luck, Renewal, Rally Magic, Tomefaire. Suggested Setups: Lucina [Dark Flier]: Luna, Dual Strike+, Aether, Galeforce, LB Lucina [sage]: Luna, Dual Strike+, Aether, Galeforce, LB Lucina [sniper]: Luna, Dual Strike+, Aether, Galeforce, LB Analysis: One of the best Lucina’s, Sumia!Lucina has the skills and mods to excel as Dark Flier or Sage lead. These sets make use of Lucina’s natural capability to procstack Luna/Aether for high damage output, as well as utilize DS+ for an easy 100% DS pair. Lucina can also function well as a Sniper stacking Luna/Aether for high damage output; in addition, Sniper Lucina can easily reach 75 Spd with Berserker or even Hero support. Sumia!Lucina is best paired with a powerful hard support such as a +Mag Avatar, almost any variation of Laurent, and, if a sniper, any berserker (+Skl MU, Yarne, Gerome, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Looks pretty clean and well-formatted to me. Style wise, there are two minor changes I'd make. First, you'll want to name your sets- it doesn't matter much on Lucina because all of hers do pretty much the same thing (Aether/Luna lead), but will be useful for other units who have more varied approaches- also for other units consider doing skill builds Smogon style where you have each skillslot on one line and all the options for that slot there- it helps to reduce the length of your guide and make your set analysis more concise. Second, you're referring to both MU and Avatar- it looks more professional if you only do it one way. I prefer not to use MU because that term actually specifically refers to FE12's Avatar- it's just a vestige from Awakening's prerelease community at this point, and while everyone knows what it means it's technically not correct. Robin and Avatar are both good ways to refer to him/her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamui vi Britannia Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Thanks for the advice Czar. Naming the sets and using a smogon style format for skills are things I will be sure to implement. They will definitely improve efficiency in writing, and make the guide more easy to process. I'm going to refer to Robin as Avatar in the guide rather than MU, FE13 name for an FE13 guide. Thanks again for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Thanks for the advice Czar. Naming the sets and using a smogon style format for skills are things I will be sure to implement. They will definitely improve efficiency in writing, and make the guide more easy to process. I'm going to refer to Robin as Avatar in the guide rather than MU, FE13 name for an FE13 guide. Thanks again for the help. You should add 0s for the mods that are 0s, just so they're there and consistent and nothing's misread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Leu Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This thread sure is handy Soooo, could you guys help me, pretty please ? My pairings are: Chrom/Sumia Nowi/Vaike Donnel/Sully Gaius/Tharja Gregor/Cherche Stalh/Coldelia Lon'qu/Miriel Frederick/Palne And to think I could have paired Fred and Olivia. sigh.The thing is, I really don't know who I should give to Olivia and Maribelle, between Virion, Libra, Henry, or Kellam. For MU, I intend to marry him to a second-gen, I'm not sure which so i'm open to any suggestions. Also, It appears that my flaws/assets are +Luck/-Strengh, I don't know what did I smoked at the time. I do intend do Apotheosis, so, worst case scenario, I redo the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Apo is fully doable with just parents, no Avatar and no S supports, and still isn't that difficult if you know what you're doing. Don't reset unless you care about having a really good team in addition to doing Apo. That said, Awakening has a ton of replay value and doing another playthrough really isn't a bad idea at all. Out of those fathers, Maribelle will do fine with anyone but Kellam and Inigo will do fine with anyone except Virion. Some of the pros and cons of each: Olivia x Libra: makes a good mixed Inigo who's particularly well suited to Dread Fighter. None of his stat mods will be above 3 though, so he's lackluster if you're looking for someone really special. Then again, most Inigos are. Olivia x Henry: Slightly more dynamic mods than Libra. He'll want to be in a physical class though (thanks to not having Tomefaire) like Berserker or Hero. Olivia x Kellam: Your only option to get Luna on Inigo. He'll be pretty slow, but oh well. He has Tomefaire and will be able to go either magical or physical. Maribelle x Virion: Brady already has everything he wants skill-wise, and this just gives him some extra Spd/Skl and cool hair. The Wyvern tree is also present and is fun for messing around, but he won't want to use it in Apo. Maribelle x Libra: Offers 1 more Mag than Virion, and gives you the choice of running Vengeance over Luna- though I wouldn't recommend that unless you really know what you're doing- it'll help but not nearly as much. Maribelle x Henry: Same as Libra, but gives a little Str which makes non-Apo postgame more interesting. Overall, I'd recommend Olivia x Kellam and Maribelle x Virion, since they're the lowest maintenance of the bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Leu Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) No S-support heh ? Well, I'll have fun with no Nah/Inigo pairing then~~ No offence to those who like the pairing of course, and hey, I'll probably end up doing a lot of pairing I don't really like anyway. ...I would like to see someone doing Apo before Lucina's recruitment. Maribelle/Virion seems pretty good to me, though it's disappoint me to not have Dark Mage, I don't mind losing Vengeance too much. Now for Inigo, yeah, he's kind of a meh. Olivia/Libra appeals to me more, but Kellam give him Luna so... So yeah, I'm going for Maribelle/Virion and Olivia/Kellam. Thank you for the help ! Any thought for my MaleMU? I thought about marrying him to Cynthia., but it's probably not a good idea. Oh boy, the grinding I will end up doing... Edited January 21, 2015 by B.Leu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Alright. Gaius!Kjelle @ Bride and Ricken!Owain @ Dread Fighter vs Thronie. TAKE TWO. Gaius!Kjelle's skills: LB, Galeforce, Luna, Astra, AS+2 Kjelle's Strength: 41 base + 10 LB + 10 Rallies + 2 tonic + 8 pairup + 2 AS = 73 Gradius vs Helswath: 19 base - 1 WTD - 3 Throne = 15. Total Attack Power: 88 88 - 64 = 24 / 2 = 12 Luna hit: 28. Astra hit: 30 Ricken!Owain's skills: LB, Galeforce, Luna, Astra, Aggressor Owain's Magic: 43 base + 10 LB + 10 Rallies + 2 tonic = 65. Valflame vs Helswath: 16 base + 5 Mag Bonus + 2 WRB - 3 Throne = 20 Aggressor = 10 Total Attack Power: 95 95 - 55 = 40 / 2 = 20 Damage range assuming everything hits and triggers: 96 if both Luna, 100 if both Astra. Not enough to kill unless both hits are Astra, very unlikely. Switching it around and putting Owain in front with a Levin sword and Kjelle in the back with a shockstick: adding in 7 magic for pairup bonuses, new magic power is 72 Levin Sword vs Helswath: 16 + 3 WRB + 1 WTA - 3 Throne = 17. Total Attack Power: 99. 99 - 55 = 44 / 2 = 22 Luna Damage: 36 Astra Damage: 55 Kjelle's magic: 38 base + 10 LB + 10 Rallies + 2 Tonic + 2 AS = 62 Shockstick vs Helswath: 16 base - 1 WTD - 3 Throne = 12 Total Attack Power: 74 74 - 55 =19 / 2 = 9 If both Luna: 90 If both Astra: 128 ...So in this case as long as at least ONE of Owain's hits is an Astra, they kill Thronie. But just to double-check to make sure a shockstick really IS stronger: Kjelle's strength in the back is 65. Parthia vs Helswath: 19 + 2 WRB - 3 Throne = 18 Total attack power: 83. 83 - 64 = 19 / 2 = 9. ...Oh. Wow. So it really makes no difference whether she uses Parthia or a Shockstick. They do the EXACT SAME amount of damage. Did I do the calcs right this time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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