If everyone in the cast didn't have a gimmick....

[Loki Laufeyson]

Cherche

Umm...Cherche definitely has a gimmick. Her mooning over Minerva is her gimmick. Her supports are often about Minerva and Minerva's reaction to things. Her supports with Avatar are all about making "a match" for Minerva. The S support smoothly transitions due to the nature of the previous supports (shifting more on the match for Cherche herself instead of Minerva), but like, Minerva is a HUGE looming entity in Cherche's character. To the point where the wyvern gets her own sound effect. Hell, Minerva (the actual Einherjar character) in Lost Bloodlines actually lampshades this with "Why do you speak my name when addressing your wyvern?" So Cherche isnt without a gimmick. Its a cute one, but its still a gimmick. Yes there is more to Cherche but there you are.

The Khans have their own gimmicks. Flavia is a tough talking warrior type who often teases Basilio. Basilio's gimmick is being a boisterous asskicker. (But much better done than say, Vaike) Rey pointed out that Say'ri's gimmick is her being very traditionally Japanese.

Having a gimmick in itself isn't the problem, but the problem is that it's so overwhelming.

Indeed. A lot of the gimmicks are charming, but some are just so in your face or even shoehorned into the character. Poor Stahl's gimmick is being completely average. So when hes around people with an overwhelming gimmick like Miriel, it gets kinda silly. Miriel is like "why are you so normal!" Wut. Stahl's bottomless pit of a stomach is something thats sort of left on back burner half the time.

Virion is the example of gimmicky character with massive depth. Its a shame hes one of the only characters in the game to get this treatment. His womanizing ends up being shoved aside after his C supports.

[amadeuscho]

Umm...Cherche definitely has a gimmick. Her mooning over Minerva is her gimmick. Her supports are often about Minerva and Minerva's reaction to things. Her supports with Avatar are all about making "a match" for Minerva. The S support smoothly transitions due to the nature of the previous supports (shifting more on the match for Cherche herself instead of Minerva), but like, Minerva is a HUGE looming entity in Cherche's character. To the point where the wyvern gets her own sound effect. Hell, Minerva (the actual Einherjar character) in Lost Bloodlines actually lampshades this with "Why do you speak my name when addressing your wyvern?" So Cherche isnt without a gimmick. Its a cute one, but its still a gimmick. Yes there is more to Cherche but there you are.

The Khans have their own gimmicks. Flavia is a tough talking warrior type who often teases Basilio. Basilio's gimmick is being a boisterous asskicker. (But much better done than say, Vaike) Rey pointed out that Say'ri's gimmick is her being very traditionally Japanese.

On Cherche: I listed her there because I don't think it overrides over the rest of her personality or backstory. If you were to transport her writing to any other FE game, it would be just considered a normal backstory.

Flavia and Basilio: Tough warrior type and asskicker? Are those really gimmicks? Because I see them in most video games, especially RPGs. Those aren't gimmicks. They are just personalities.

Say'ri: I was thinking that, but that seems more like backstory to me. It would be the background of any character based in Japan in other games. And her relationship to her brother as well as to her land being conquered prevents her from being one note.

I don't think you should throw around the term gimmick toward every main personality trait of every character so that you can say every FE:A character has a gimmick. Some of them don't have gimmicks. Plain and simple.

There's a difference between having cartoon-like elements (Troy) being the backbone of characterization and literally being a cartoon character. Awakening's cast falls in the latter.

And no, I disagree with quantity over quality. 7-9's convos are usually consistently good because they focused on characters that work well with each other (man I just loved the wonderful chemistry between Lucina and Gerome) and stuck with them. If I have to go through a tide of bullshit to get to one or two decent support convos per character, that doesn't speak very highly of Awakening's writing. Don't give me that bs about people just not trying hard enough to find the 1-2 decent ones out of a million

And you're only strengthening the theory that they thought of the story as an afterthought to the gameplay. That may be fine to some people, but again, past Fes have excellently complemented the two together (fe5 being the pinnacle of it). So when Awakening's gameplay and story are so hugely disjointed, to the point of active harm to the second, it, again, feels disappointing.

What do you have against cartoons man? They're awesome! And Troy has a "gimmick" in season 1. As does Abed. That's my point.

I'm saying that there are depth to the characters. These characters have a larger personality than what you are giving them credit for. It's much more than one support that showcases the facets of each of the character's personality. You can't say have a one note personality if there are instances where they show more than a one note personality but you just haven't seen them. That would be like just watching one episode of 88 episode series and saying a character is one note.

I wouldn't characterize it like that. I think gameplay should always go before story. If the gameplay doesn't want to make you play, then you won't get to the story. It's not a theory; it's practically Nintendo's mantra: Miyamoto and Gunpei Yokai taught it to the likes Eiji Anonuma, Yoshiaku Koizumi and Genki Yokota, or at the very least follow their example.

I am enjoy the overarching plot of FE13 and its characters. FE4/5 feature man lackluster characters but they do have a great story. However, I feel as though two different tones were try to be achieved in the respective games. It's like comparing Avengers to the Dark Knight. Both have great stories but have wildly different tones and are trying to achieve different things it there stories. Both are great films, but in different ways.

[Constable Reggie]

Troy doesn't have a gimmick. Abed does, but a) that's the entire point of Abed (it's fucking pointed out in an episode), and b) it's so excellently pulled off and well written that it's not a negative. Also, you didn't even address my point of cartoon-like aspects versus actual cartoon characters.

A better analogy would be watching several mini (and separate, which is where your analogy fails) indiana jones adventures and saying the few good ones do not make up for the several shitty ones. You're not going to convince anyone that the shit-to-decent ratio being overwhelmingly high is okay because at least there's still decent convos.

Why are you trying to bring the entire Nintendo company into an IS-only issue? The fact of the matter is that IS has had a history of making games with good story elements, so when they fail to live up to their own standards, it is not excused just because Nintendo is the company behind Mario.

And this is a game that starts off with you killing Chrom, and has an alternate timeline of complete misery. Compare that to the majority of convos in the game. Awakening is so wildly inconsistent in tone it's not even funny. And I wasn't just talking about compared to 4-5 (these two meld story and gameplay pretty well. I brought them up because they starkly contrast Awakening's fantastic idea of actively harming story in favor of gameplay, when IS has shown that they could do far, far better). Character and storywise, Fe13 is entirely inferior to 7-9.

Gimmicks aside, the portrayal of the parents and children in Future Past/Future of Despair was brilliant.

Haven't tried those yet, but I'm iffed at the fact that we need to pay even more just to have decent characterization for some of the cast.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[The Roar]

I honestly love the gimmicks

[RightfulGod]

Characters I don't think really have a gimmick (please share what you think they are)

Chrom (I disagree with one scene determining the main character's gimmick), Panne, Cherche, Say'ri, Tiki, Basilio, Flavia, Frederick, Lucina, Ricken, Nah

Nothing really stands out that grabs my intention for these characters.

I'm pretty sure Nah's gimmick is her name, or her general dislike towards her name, and Ricken's is his height and age. Though, they're pretty small compared to the others.

Also, I'm pretty sure the lack of gimmicks from Say'ri, Tiki, Basilio, and Flavia are due to the fact that they only have like one or two supports, which is fairly disappointing really. They don't get much room to show their little "gimmick" other than abundantly using/saying it over and over, so that kind of sucks.

Edited September 17, 2013 by RightfulGod

[Vennobennu]

I think a big problem with the characters in this game is that so few of them have any relevance to the story whatsoever after their recruitment. It's easier to list the ones that have lines outside their joining chapter than the ones that don't. Nothing they do or say has any relevance to the plot, so the only way to hear from them is through the support conversations - which are written so they can occur at any point in the game. The supports end up being completely irrelevant to the plot, moreso than any other game except FE10.

[Phantom037]

Isn't that what normally happens? I don't have any significance to the plot after I join.

[ZemZem]

Haven't tried those yet, but I'm iffed at the fact that we need to pay even more just to have decent characterization for some of the cast.

Yeah, it's a bit lame. But hey, at least we get to see some ACTUAL character development from the cast. Here's a set of dialogue I really like:

Yarne: Yeep! The bridge!

Brady: What the hell are those stupid jackfarts doing?!

Owain: Inigo, you idiot! We didn't both have to die!

Inigo: I'm not the one being an idiot!

Owain: Huh?

Inigo: Maybe your plan is the best way to get the Gemstones back to Ylisse. But what am I supposed to tell Lucina and the others? "Oops, sorry! Owain sacrificed himself!" Your parents DIED for you, Owain. I don't care how smart you think it sounds. You're not throwing your life away.

Owain: But if I don't do this, the world is gonna—

Inigo: Stop. We can save the world together. Don't you want to be there to see it? I'm not leaving the Gemstones OR my friends behind, Owain. You want to fight? We'll fight. BOTH of us. And in case you hadn't noticed, I'm not taking no for an answer.

Owain: ...... Heh. All right, fine... I suppose I was too legendary to die anyway. Very well, then. Let's crush these Risen and head home to Ylisse!

Inigo: Now we're talking!

Brady: ...Show-offs.

Yarne: Brady, come on! We have to help them!

Brady: ...... No, let's press on.

Yarne: What?!

Brady: I said we're going back to Ylisse! You wanna sit around and wait for those Risen to come tear us apart?

Yarne: B-but...you can't MEAN that?! They'll die without our help! We'll never see them again! Don't you care about them at all?!

Brady: Of course I do, you...s-stupid rabbit!

Yarne: Urgh...

Brady: If I could, I'd run over there right now and fight to the death! But that's not what they want. Why do you think they cut down the bridge? They know we have the Gemstones. They want us to escape. Once we get them back to Lucina, we can destroy Grima. End of story. A messy, heroic death for us won't solve anything, you dummy!

Yarne: I know, but... *sniff*

Brady: Look, Owain and Inigo will be fine. You know what they're made of. I'll be damned if the last we see of them is some hellhole like this. ...Now come on, Yarne. We need to go.

Yarne: ..... ....... ...Fine.

Brady: Good man. ...Bunny. Whatever.

Yarne: HEY, OWAIN! INIGO! If you can hear me... I promise we'll deliver the Gemstones to Ylisse! Everything will be okay! B-but don't you dare die on us! I mean it! There's nothing a taguel hates more than a quitter!

Owain: Heh. Don't you worry! We won't quit. We'll catch up!

Inigo: That's right. See you in Ylisse—I promise!

Yarne: ...You better. ...... They'll pull through. They have to...

Edited September 17, 2013 by Z the M

[amadeuscho]

I'm pretty sure Nah's gimmick is her name, or her general dislike towards her name, and Ricken's is his height and age. Though, they're pretty small compared to the others.

Are those really gimmicks? Or personality traits and part of their character's story arcs. Ricken's supports usually deal with him coming of age and learning to be less of a child.

Nah's name thing is mentioned her recruitment right? Is brought a lot in her supports? Maybe when characters first meet her. But most of her supports derive from other aspects of her personality. It's no different than if someone met me and was like, "wait. your name is just Jay? It's not short for anything?" I would say "No. I don't like my name. I always think someone is calling out to me, but it turns out they just like pausing between syllables."

My rule is if it's small, it's not really a gimmick. It doesn't attract attention so it's not a gimmick. Or it's a normal character trait you can expect from a character.

words

I don't have a problem with cartoon characters so I don't mind considering Troy or Abed a cartoon character. Fry (from Futurama) is an awesome cartoon character with a lot of depth, so I don't see how being a cartoon character is a bad thing. If you want to make the distinction of cartoon-like, that's fine by me. Troy's whole dumb jock is a gimmick. It's not until at least the Interpretive Dance episode where they expand beyond that. I don't view gimmicks as a negative, as example of Abed or Troy. They have gimmicks (less so after season 1) but doesn't change their season one depiction. In FE games, I think Gaius, Cherche, and Lon'qu are all pulled of well. Not to Abed's level, but Abed is exceedingly well written character, I don't believe you need to write a character to Abed's level in order to start them off with a gimmick. Poor writing is the negative, not having a gimmick in itself.

The problem is with FE we derive personality mainly from their supports (especially with supporting characters). If I'm not mistaken, those points about Lute and Serra come from supports. They do show a bit in their recruitment, but for the most part, FE character personality is derived from supports. And you don't get depth unless you A) contribute to the main plot B) have a kick-ass support. If I played through FE 7-9 without getting any supports, all the characters would seem more lack luster to me. Hell, doing one support might not be enough if I pick wrong.

I brought up Nintendo because it's not really that ground breaking a theory. A Nintendo development team puts gameplay first? Throw a dart and any Nintendo interview and they will probably say it at least once. It's just how Nintendo has always rolled. I don't think FE:A has a bad story, but the gameplay definitely came first.

Avengers has Agent Coulson dying. But it's still a light hearted affair. Death is not necessarily dark. It can be a motivator and moves along plot. I don't see it as an inconsistent. That chapter is like a premonition. Aren't most premonitions in fiction about death? Time travel deals with preventing a "bad future" in most fiction. Trunks goes back in time to stop the Androids from destroying civilization (DBZ). But DBZ isn't dark or inconsistent in tone because the Androids saga exist.

I don't see how FE:A's gameplay harmed story. Are you saying FE:A's poor story quality interferes with gameplay? Because what we have been talking about mainly (supports) doesn't really influence the main plot. And it doesn't influence the plot in FE7-10, and I doubt it messes with FE4-5 either/ The game's main plot serves the gameplay well. As I've said before, I like FE's plot. It has several strong moments, including the fall of Emmeryn, the fight with Yen'fay, and Lucina's attempt to kill Robin. Each of these events increase the plot's connection to the gameplay. The next chapter reflects the major event prior and adds to the story. For example, the mood in chapter 10 derived from the music, the setting, and the barrage of soldiers matches the despair Chrom (and by extension you) feel toward Emmeryn's death.

If you are talking about the multiple support conversations harming gameplay, they feed into each other. The inheritance system works because you have options to choose which character, and you have to build those. The support conversations give more depth to a relationship, and thus you are attached more to the pairing.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Viewtiful_J

[RightfulGod]

Are those really gimmicks? Or personality traits and part of their character's story arcs. Ricken's supports usually deal with him coming of age and learning to be less of a child.

Nah's name thing is mentioned her recruitment right? Is brought a lot in her supports? Maybe when characters first meet her. But most of her supports derive from other aspects of her personality. It's no different than if someone met me and was like, "wait. your name is just Jay? It's not short for anything?" I would say "No. I don't like my name. I always think someone is calling out to me, but it turns out they just like pausing between syllables."

Ooh yes, good point, I never really considered that. Perhaps because a lot of people are using gimmick rather freely here, but that's a little beside the point.

[General Banzai]

I think a big problem with the characters in this game is that so few of them have any relevance to the story whatsoever after their recruitment. It's easier to list the ones that have lines outside their joining chapter than the ones that don't.

That's pretty much every FE though, except FESS, PoR, and FERD

[shadowofchaos]

Are those really gimmicks? Or personality traits and part of their character's story arcs. Ricken's supports usually deal with him coming of age and learning to be less of a child.

Nah's entire gimmick in Japanese: Desu.

Richt/Ricken: Not his height, but seriously EVERYONE will treat him like a child because of his speech patterns.

Speech patterns are a big thing there. Here, not so much.

[amadeuscho]

Nah's entire gimmick in Japanese: Desu.

Richt/Ricken: Not his height, but seriously EVERYONE will treat him like a child because of his speech patterns.

Speech patterns are a big thing there. Here, not so much.

Is desu similar to Himura Kenshin's speech patterns regarding "de gozaru." If so, I would argue that's not a gimmick, that's just a manner of speaking. Kenshin's fans don't regard the "de gozaru" as his gimmick. It's just part of the way he talks. It is similar to Nah.

Saying speech patterns are a gimmick to me is like saying an accent is a gimmick. In which case, having an accent in itself is not a gimmick. Not to mention, as I stated previously in Ricken's case, it's part of his development as a character. He acts like a child and his supports are about him learning to be adult. That's a traditional coming of age story.

Ooh yes, good point, I never really considered that. Perhaps because a lot of people are using gimmick rather freely here, but that's a little beside the point.

I think people see a gimmick on some characters (like Gaius or Henry), and try to apply it to all characters. But that doesn't work considering what the definition of a gimmick. If it doesn't draw attention/you have to think really hard about it, then it's probably not a gimmick. If I transported some of these "gimmicks" to another game, let's say a Tales game, would they be considered gimmicks or would they be character traits/background? I think Gaius' love of candy would still be gimmick, but Say'ri's japanese culture wouldn't be a gimmick, as it's something Sheena Fujibayashi has in ToS.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Viewtiful_J

[Constable Reggie]

I'm not talking about literal cartoon characters, I'm talking about the same level of depth as someone from a typical cartoon. And why do you keep insisting Troy's intial jockness is a gimmick? How in the world is an intentionally stereotypical personality a gimmick? Do you know the difference between a gimmick personality and a stereotypical one?

Also, I never said having a gimmick itself is a bad thing. The gimmick being the only or major thing the character can attribute to is when it's bad.

I really am unsure if you're understanding my points. The lute/serra support thing doesn't have anything to do with anything. I never said having supports be the main form of character development is a bad thing, I said having an overwhelming number of bad, trash, or pointless supports dwarf the legitimately good ones is a bad thing. Guess what Awakening does.

You completely dodged the point regarding my issue on bringing up Nintendo.

When's the last time anyone praised Dragonballz's characters/story for being excellently written?

Also, the Avengers doesn't have a scene where Scarlett Johansson shyly bakes a pie (after numerous times) for Tony Stark in the hopes that he will finally recognize her. Everyone is played straight and are consistent with their characterization

including the fall of Emmeryn, the fight with Yen'fay, and Lucina's attempt to kill Robin.

Going to give my opinion on these real quick.

Emmeryn: loses a lot of its impact when you fight and kill Gangrel only 2 chapters later (see: Ninian's death for a much better execution [no pun intended]), then completely loses all impact when it turns out she survived it

Yen'fay: hahahahahahahahahahaha

Lucina: only really touching when Robin is the parent, otherwise all tension is immediately lost the second Chrom shows his fat fucking face in the scene

When I talk about story, I'm not talking about just the plot. I'm including everything. The support conversations (story) suffer greatly because of the decision to have everyone be able to marry each other (gameplay), character development (story) is hurt by shoehorning the tidbit quotes everywhere, such as at level up or shiny tiles (gameplay), and so forth

I'm legitimately convinced that we're not even talking on the same page, so I'm going to stop here

[Anacybele]

Because you've never exaggerated your dislike of a certain pegasus knight amirite??

Honestly now, you say this, yet on the very first page of this thread, you referred to Sumia's "stupidity". The clumsiness, I can accept, she IS pretty clumsy, but that makes her cute. But "stupidity"? Sumia might be a bit dim at times, but she certainly isn't stupid.

But I didn't repeatedly call Sumia stupid like Florina repeatedly called Severa an asshole. And I think Sumia is stupid because she does stupid things. Like handing Gaius a bee hive, punching Chrom in the face because she thought she was slapping him, and there were other things too, but I can't think of them at the moment.

Characters I don't think really have a gimmick (please share what you think they are)

Chrom (I disagree with one scene determining the main character's gimmick), Panne, Cherche, Say'ri, Tiki, Basilio, Flavia, Frederick, Lucina, Ricken, Nah

Nothing really stands out that grabs my intention for these characters.

Frederick definitely has a gimmick lol. It's his obsession with his duty. XD

Edited September 17, 2013 by Anacybele

[RightfulGod]

I think people see a gimmick on some characters (like Gaius or Henry), and try to apply it to all characters. But that doesn't work considering what the definition of a gimmick. If it doesn't draw attention/you have to think really hard about it, then it's probably not a gimmick. If I transported some of these "gimmicks" to another game, let's say a Tales game, would they be considered gimmicks or would they be character traits/background? I think Gaius' love of candy would still be gimmick, but Say'ri's japanese culture wouldn't be a gimmick, as it's something Sheena Fujibayashi has in ToS.

I suppose it's a matter of whether they should be viewed as apart of the character or as a gimmick, and it's sometimes hard to pick apart the two. Cherche and Minerva are a bit of an example that I've seen in this thread, as well as Say'ri's traditional Japanese. While it is a trait that stands out, it doesn't quite match the description of a gimmick, but it could be a little hard to tell. Comparing two examples like that, however, makes it pretty clear.

[RJWalker]

LOL, I'm not gonna pay for something that, for all intents and purposes, was already in the game and was taken to amke some quick bucks. Character development DLC. What a ridiculous notion. And a sad one too.

[amadeuscho]

I'm legitimately convinced that we're not even talking on the same page, so I'm going to stop here

Cool. I thought we are having a cool conversation. But every time I've addressed all your points, so I don't see how I've dodged anything. We just appear to have a difference of opinion on what constitutes a good story. I think a good story is something that I enjoy and that can get me into a game or more invested. Different stories have different purposes. There is more depth to the Dark Knight than the Avengers, but both have great stories.

I don't know what typical cartoons you watch. All the cartoons I watch are awesome. TV is general is filled with flat characters. It's not symptomatic of cartoon characters.

In season 1, it's a gimmick. They use it derive most of Troy's jokes about him being a dumb jock. Similar to how Gaius' humor revolve around his love of candy. I never used the term gimmick personality. It's a stereotype as well as gimmick. Who said it can't be both.

The supports just contain different types of conversations. Is every conversation you have with someone reveal your background? The conversations have to vary in nature, or the big important ones would have less meaning. Some are funny. Some add depth. And some detail an interaction between characters. My point was you can't display the character development of Lute and Serra without going through some "trash" as well. You need to look at both equally. It's either you looks at all supports or you can't fully analyze a character or call them one note.

If I said Lute is one note, that's what I got from her Vanessa conversation. The counter to that would be "Her support is Kyle shows her personality and depth." The same can be said for all the awakening characters.

You completely dodged the point regarding my issue on bringing up Nintendo.

First of all, as I've pointed, I disagree with the contention that FE13 has a bad story. So that's why I didn't address it. Later, I brought up why I thought it had a good story. You can disagree with that, but I talked about this issue.

Also, the Avengers doesn't have a scene where Scarlett Johansson shyly bakes a pie (after numerous times) for Tony Stark in the hopes that he will finally recognize her. Everyone is played straight and are consistent with their characterization

Just pointing out the ridiculousness of assuming time travel from a bad future means that the game is inconsistent in tone. Coming from a bad future is a consistent trope in media.

Also, the Avengers doesn't have a scene where Scarlett Johansson shyly bakes a pie (after numerous times) for Tony Stark in the hopes that he will finally recognize her. Everyone is played straight and are consistent with their characterization

Again, I was pointing out how faulty it is to compare FE4/5 to FE:A. The games have completely different tones and different intentions, just like the Avengers and the Dark Knight. And the pie baking scene between the Black Widow and Captain America (you got it wrong) is being saved for the Winter Soldier.

Going to give my opinion on these real quick.

Emmeryn: loses a lot of its impact when you fight and kill Gangrel only 2 chapters later (see: Ninian's death for a much better execution [no pun intended]), then completely loses all impact when it turns out she survived it

Yen'fay: hahahahahahahahahahaha

Lucina: only really touching when Robin is the parent, otherwise all tension is immediately lost the second Chrom shows his fat fucking face in the scene

It's still a dramatic point in the story when it happens. The importance of the event is that Emmeryn chooses to fall herself, for the sake of Chrom. I'm a reader of comics, so I don't think it takes away from anything when a character is brought,

It's a replay of Camus archetype, but these Camus archetype speaks to the nature of war. Not everyone can be recruited, even the good people.

It's also touching when Robin is the husband. But regardless, Lucina's attempt is still like killing a close friend. A comrade. Who you would gladly reset the game for. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. Chrom is not fat. He's just big boned.

When I talk about story, I'm not talking about just the plot. I'm including everything. The support conversations (story) suffer greatly because of the decision to have everyone be able to marry each other (gameplay), character development (story) is hurt by shoehorning the tidbit quotes everywhere, such as at level up or shiny tiles (gameplay), and so forth

Regarding supports: Judging from this forum, where there are at any time, at least 5 active threads discussing which characters go best together, I think it's a worthy trade off. And the supports can only add to a game for me. I don't complain when Lute has a lack luster support with Vanessa. There are still quality support in the game and some less exciting supports in the game. Same with all the other Fire Emblems. Did FE10 bare support system destroy the story? I don't think so.

If you think the fun quotes where they pick up items or level up ruin the story, then I don't know what to tell you. If you don't like them, just press start or A? Don't take it so seriously, it's just a game?

Edited September 17, 2013 by Viewtiful_J

[Loki Laufeyson]

But I didn't repeatedly call Sumia stupid like Florina repeatedly called Severa an asshole.

To be fair, i dont get that much of a pass for hating Severa. People around here dont like that i dont dig Cordelia either.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

A Jock having an Asshole as a daughter

Eye for an eye

[Thor Odinson]

Being a reader of comics myself, that may be the reason why I'm complaining about the characterisation here so much because really after getting spoiled by 600+ issues of Thor's beautifully done characterisation and all his dynamics with Loki and Odin and his relationship with earth and asgard and the whole godhood thing and tons of feels my standards for characterisation got pretty damn high

The Marvel writers also like to slip cute little earthly things Thor likes to do (like preferring lattes to coffee c. Uncanny Avengers #1) sometimes, but it doesn't overshadow any part of his character, but serves to make him more adorable. It's just a cute little snippet/fun fact and I think the gimmicks might be handled a lot better if it's slipped in rather than IN YOUR FACE.

and I will shut up about Thor now because if I don't it will turn into a tl;dr length meta and I will cry a lot during it

[Anacybele]

Uh.. When did this topic get on Marvel heroes? This is about Awakening character gimmicks.

Overall, I don't mind them really. I find some of them entertaining, like Frederick's obsession with his duty, Gaius's sweet tooth, and Lon'qu's fear of women...lol. Donnel's southern-style character is adorable too, imo.

[Tamanoir]

This became : "Bitch about character you don't like" pretty quickly...

First, as Constable Reggie said, gimmick and Stereotype personnality aren't the same thing. For example, Sumia tripping is a gimmick, but her klutzy cute personnality is a stereotype. Sully's cooking is a gimmick, as could be her swearing (Her talking worse than Hector is pretty strange), but her tomboy personality is a stereotype.

There's not a lot of gimmick actually, but every character is stereotyped, more or less strongly.

It's actually pretty easy to see if the gimmick are bad or not :

Suppress their gimmick, and see how it affect the character. Do they still have a personnality without it ? Is it justified ? (Sully and Kellam are justified, or at least hand waved. Lon'qu's gynophobia is beautifully demonstrated in his Zelcher's support.Henry is explained in his Olivia's support) Is the character improved without it ? Is he worse ? (The two last one are pretty subjective, I'll admit.)

[amadeuscho]

Being a reader of comics myself, that may be the reason why I'm complaining about the characterisation here so much because really after getting spoiled by 600+ issues of Thor's beautifully done characterisation and all his dynamics with Loki and Odin and his relationship with earth and asgard and the whole godhood thing and tons of feels my standards for characterisation got pretty damn high

The Marvel writers also like to slip cute little earthly things Thor likes to do (like preferring lattes to coffee c. Uncanny Avengers #1) sometimes, but it doesn't overshadow any part of his character, but serves to make him more adorable. It's just a cute little snippet/fun fact and I think the gimmicks might be handled a lot better if it's slipped in rather than IN YOUR FACE.

and I will shut up about Thor now because if I don't it will turn into a tl;dr length meta and I will cry a lot during it

I mentioned the reader of comics thing. Thor has been a pretty well written series over the course of its recent run, hasn't it. We have Jason Aaron now, and we had Matt Fraction and Kieon Gillen before it (who also did JiM). And before that we had JMS. And before that Thor was on break because of Ragnarok. Prior to that, Thor was pretty spotty like most superhero books in the early 00s and 90s. So I doubt it's been 600+ good issues. Any long running series has periods of ups and downs. Thor really benefited from his break and got top tier talent upon his return.

I think I don't mind the fantastic elements like time travel or premonition of death because I am a reader of comics. I also don't mind people faking their deaths, because that also happens all the time in comics.

It's actually pretty easy to see if the gimmick are bad or not :

Suppress their gimmick, and see how it affect the character. Do they still have a personnality without it ? Is it justified ? (Sully and Kellam are justified, or at least hand waved. Lon'qu's gynophobia is beautifully demonstrated in his Zelcher's support.Henry is explained in his Olivia's support) Is the character improved without it ? Is he worse ? (The two last one are pretty subjective, I'll admit.)

Your gauge technique works very well. I think someone like Cherche works with a suppressed gimmick.

[NoNameAtAll]

I want my crazy ass Gangrel.

Gimmicks must remain; haters be damned.