If everyone in the cast didn't have a gimmick....

[Loki Laufeyson]

FE13 is to Cabin in the Woods as FE8 through FE10 is to Evil Dead.

Oh you have to be joking with that one, mate. The only similarity to FE13 and Cabin In The Woods is the fanservice callbacks.

any good Brady x Severa was is sort of cancelled out by the utter horror that is Severa x Owain.

Oh jumpin' christ, dont remind me. D:

[Shengar]

this.

surprised no one mentioned sumia's tripping over nothing gimmick yet.

or cordelia's forlorn love gimmick.

Isn't Sumia's gimmick nothing more than a sort of brilliance? People can say that Summer Scramble is just for fun but seeing Sumia actually pretty competent in battle and only have one line related to her own gimmick, the only conclusion I can get that it is true.

[General Banzai]

Oh you have to be joking with that one, mate. The only similarity to FE13 and Cabin In The Woods is the fanservice callbacks.

Really? And yet none of the self-referential meta-comedy that is achieved while also somehow attempting to play the genre straight? Has nobody noticed how a lot of the so-called "gimmicks" are really just more extreme and distorted versions of the already-established FE archetypes? And how, on top of that, so many of the children are more extreme and distorted versions of their own parents, so the game starts to parody itself halfway through its own parody?

We got our fiery, hothead cavalier (Allen, Kieran). Our "normal" cavalier who likes to cook (Lowen, Franz, Oscar). Our nannying Jagen who serves as a more cynical counterpoint to the main characters (Marcus, Seth). Our clutzy new recruit Pegasus knight (Florina). Our Pegasus knight with unrequited love for the main character (Catria, Elincia). Our knight who is basically the butt of all jokes (Roger, Arden). Our fanatical scholar mage (Canas, Lute). Our wassup brah dudebro fighter (Bartre, Boyd). Our cleric little sister to the main character (Elice, Mist). Our gold-hungry thief (Rennac, Heather). Our pedobait manakete (Tiki, Myrrh). Our dark sorcerer bent on resurrecting the dark god (Gharnef, Manfloy, Nergal, Riev). Our creeper rapist minor villain (Kempf, Narcian, Gheb, Oliver).

The basis for all these gimmicks is already-established characters. FE13 just takes them to an almost illogical and ridiculous level. Hence, parody.

[RJWalker]

And FE13, in it's attempts to emulate those past characters completely misses why those characters were so great in the first place. Take Gharnef for example. A truly evil SOB. He taunts you through the whole game and is responsible for nearly everything wrong with Archanea (seriouls, you couldn't step on kitten's tale without Gharnef being responsible in some way) and he wants to resurrect a dragon. So far, he's very similar to Validar.

The key differences are that Gharnef is actually threatning. You only face Gharnef once before the final confrontation but in his one appearance, he is a force to be reckoned with. Being completely invulnerable drives this home. You specifically need to train a mage and get Starlight to even have a hope of defeating him. On the otherhand, you fight Validar 4 times, twice in the early game. One in the prelude where's a complete chump and once in an early chapter where again, he's a complete chump. He simply does not present a threat that can be taken seriously.

Beyond that, Gharnef actually has his own motives and plans to betray Medeus. He manipulates you into getting rid of Camus and Michalis for him and has his own plans on how to defeat Medeus (though we don't see much of them). Validar has no motives other than reviving Grima and he knows that Grima will kill him along with everyone.

It's sad that the game that came out on the NES has one the best villains in the series while the game that i supposed to be a tribute to the series has, by far, the worst villain.

[BrightBow]

Really? And yet none of the self-referential meta-comedy that is achieved while also somehow attempting to play the genre straight? Has nobody noticed how a lot of the so-called "gimmicks" are really just more extreme and distorted versions of the already-established FE archetypes? And how, on top of that, so many of the children are more extreme and distorted versions of their own parents, so the game starts to parody itself halfway through its own parody?

We got our fiery, hothead cavalier (Allen, Kieran). Our "normal" cavalier who likes to cook (Lowen, Franz, Oscar). Our nannying Jagen who serves as a more cynical counterpoint to the main characters (Marcus, Seth). Our clutzy new recruit Pegasus knight (Florina). Our Pegasus knight with unrequited love for the main character (Catria, Elincia). Our knight who is basically the butt of all jokes (Roger, Arden). Our fanatical scholar mage (Canas, Lute). Our wassup brah dudebro fighter (Bartre, Boyd). Our cleric little sister to the main character (Elice, Mist). Our gold-hungry thief (Rennac, Heather). Our pedobait manakete (Tiki, Myrrh). Our dark sorcerer bent on resurrecting the dark god (Gharnef, Manfloy, Nergal, Riev). Our creeper rapist minor villain (Kempf, Narcian, Gheb, Oliver).

The basis for all these gimmicks is already-established characters. FE13 just takes them to an almost illogical and ridiculous level. Hence, parody.

That's... not exactly the impression I got. I thought the characters were supposed to be endearing and charming. To the point where you might even want to marry them.

Not sure how that is supposed to work but this is always stressed in the interviews.

Personally I would definitely like to think that the game was intended as a parody.

How else could one explain that the characters resort to the very same strategy to massacre the Valm invasion force that was considered by everyone to be vile, cruel and cowardly in the VERY LAST REAL GAME... all while having the supposed heroes show nothing but cheerful excitement about the burning flesh of hundred thousands of people? The kind of people that IS always tried to humanize and show that good people can easily be caught up in the wrong side of a conflict for plenty of reasons.

They did that ever since the very first game, where they included several recruitable enemies which are stat wise indistinguishable from their redshirt comrades.

And the game shows nothing that suggest it isn't entirely serious when it introduces the bunny Laguz genocide.

I would argue, if you bring in freaking Genocide, you...better...know...what....you...do. Where is the goddamn joke by having a bunch of genocide victims throw around rabbit related puns?

And there is nothing to suggest that the game isn't serious when it treats Emmeryn as a saint for killing herself 5 seconds before she would have gotten pushed anyway.

There is nothing to suggest they weren't serious when everyone in Plegia suddenly turned on their own king just because somebody told them that war is a bad thing.

And there is not the slightest hint of irony when Robin claims to Validar that she changed the world for the better... shortly after she learned that because of her overthrowing Gangrel, the cultists were free to feed said Plegians to Grima by the truckload.

Or when Lucina tries to kill Robin because that is apparently a better choice then merely asking him to stay home so he can't harm Chrom.

Or Lucina attacking her father in chapter 4 for literally no reason. Not even a shallow excuse like how they tried to explain her outfit. In this case, there is nothing there at all.

There is nothing to suggest that any of this shit is intended to be anything but an entirely serious attempt to catch the spirit of Fire Emblem as expressed in the interviews...

Besides of course the vain hope that no human being could write so much disgusting crap on purpose.

They were just reusing elements that had been used in Fire Emblem before. They just put no thought into them. So we ended with a bunch of annoying caricatures and punslingers.

Edited September 19, 2013 by BrightBow

[ConfidenceKBM]

I think we can all agree that Validar and Excellus are kind of awful.

Cervantes was awesome though ;D

[Hawk]

I think we can all agree that Validar and Excellus are kind of awful.

Cervantes was awesome though ;D

SEE HOW MY MUSTACHE MOVES IN THE WIND!

Sorry, I just had to. :P

[RJWalker]

I first noticed taht the game's story was going downhill when Cordelia arrives bringing news about Ylisse's fall and how her sisters paid with their life to get this message to the Exalt so that she may, you know, be safe. Then Emmeryn goes back to Ylisse like stubborn mule. And promptly gets captured again.

All of this within the span of one cutscene.

I had a serious 'Wah wah waaaaaaah!' moment. Like something straight out of a Looney Tunes cartoon.

[Volke29]

I like everything as is.

My favorite is Brady. He just cracks me up. Noire is awesome, too. I like how she goes from shy to "I'm going to kick you butt ahahahahahaha!" on a fly.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Volke29

[General Banzai]

And FE13, in it's attempts to emulate those past characters completely misses why those characters were so great in the first place.

It's not attempting to emulate

It's attempting to go beyond emulation

Personally I would definitely like to think that the game was intended as a parody.

DOTA yo, think what you wanna think

Where is the goddamn joke by having a bunch of genocide victims throw around rabbit related puns?

thats pretty fucking funny dude

also genocide victims dont have to be super serious and morbid all the fucking time

panne making buck teeth humanized her more than anything else

Edited September 19, 2013 by General Banzai

[Loki Laufeyson]

That's... not exactly the impression I got. I thought the characters were supposed to be endearing and charming. To the point where you might even want to marry them.

Not sure how that is supposed to work but this is always stressed in the interviews.

Personally I would definitely like to think that the game was intended as a parody.

How else could one explain that the characters resort to the very same strategy to massacre the Valm invasion force that was considered by everyone to be vile, cruel and cowardly in the VERY LAST REAL GAME... all while having the supposed heroes show nothing but cheerful excitement about the burning flesh of hundred thousands of people? The kind of people that IS always tried to humanize and show that good people can easily be caught up in the wrong side of a conflict for plenty of reasons.

They did that ever since the very first game, where they included several recruitable enemies which are stat wise indistinguishable from their redshirt comrades.

And the game shows nothing that suggest it isn't entirely serious when it introduces the bunny Laguz genocide.

I would argue, if you bring in freaking Genocide, you...better...know...what....you...do. Where is the goddamn joke by having a bunch of genocide victims throw around rabbit related puns?

And there is nothing to suggest that the game isn't serious when it treats Emmeryn as a saint for killing herself 5 seconds before she would have gotten pushed anyway.

There is nothing to suggest they weren't serious when everyone in Plegia suddenly turned on their own king just because somebody told them that war is a bad thing.

And there is not the slightest hint of irony when Robin claims to Validar that she changed the world for the better... shortly after she learned that because of her overthrowing Gangrel, the cultists were free to feed said Plegians to Grima by the truckload.

Or when Lucina tries to kill Robin because that is apparently a better choice then merely asking him to stay home so he can't harm Chrom.

Or Lucina attacking her father in chapter 4 for literally no reason. Not even a shallow excuse like how they tried to explain her outfit. In this case, there is nothing there at all.

There is nothing to suggest that any of this shit is intended to be anything but an entirely serious attempt to catch the spirit of Fire Emblem as expressed in the interviews...

Besides of course the vain hope that no human being could write so much disgusting crap on purpose.

They were just reusing elements that had been used in Fire Emblem before. They just put no thought into them. So we ended with a bunch of annoying caricatures and punslingers.

While i do not feel this as strongly as you do, i do agree that Awakening isnt actually intended to be a spoof. Parts of the game, notably most of the DLCs, maybe are parodies of the series itself. But the entire game wasnt intended to be some meta gag. Cabin In The Woods was Joss Whedon poking huge amounts of fun at horror fans while providing all sorts of horror fanservice in general. (seriously, i could write an entire meta about that film, but ill spare you.) Awakening isnt doing the same thing. It is providing loads of fanservice (sexual, and otherwise) and occasionally poking the ribs of fans of the series, but thats not what the main story itself is aiming for. We could all think its some sort of parody, but in reality, thats not the creators' intent. Thus i feel the Cabin In The Woods comparison to be really stretching it.

[General Banzai]

While i do not feel this as strongly as you do, i do agree that Awakening isnt actually intended to be a spoof. Parts of the game, notably most of the DLCs, maybe are parodies of the series itself. But the entire game wasnt intended to be some meta gag. Cabin In The Woods was Joss Whedon poking huge amounts of fun at horror fans while providing all sorts of horror fanservice in general. (seriously, i could write an entire meta about that film, but ill spare you.) Awakening isnt doing the same thing. It is providing loads of fanservice (sexual, and otherwise) and occasionally poking the ribs of fans of the series, but thats not what the main story itself is aiming for. We could all think its some sort of parody, but in reality, thats not the creators' intent. Thus i feel the Cabin In The Woods comparison to be really stretching it.

awakening is doing the exact same fucking thing

[Loki Laufeyson]

Well, like, thats just your opinion, man.

[General Banzai]

Well, like, thats just your opinion, man.

man fuck those words, those are the pussest words ever spoke by man

look, when the very prologue (or "premonition") of the story directly mirrors the act of restarting a chapter because someone died, then yes, a metafictional commentary is at work

[PKL]

Really? And yet none of the self-referential meta-comedy that is achieved while also somehow attempting to play the genre straight? Has nobody noticed how a lot of the so-called "gimmicks" are really just more extreme and distorted versions of the already-established FE archetypes? And how, on top of that, so many of the children are more extreme and distorted versions of their own parents, so the game starts to parody itself halfway through its own parody?

We got our fiery, hothead cavalier (Allen, Kieran). Our "normal" cavalier who likes to cook (Lowen, Franz, Oscar). Our nannying Jagen who serves as a more cynical counterpoint to the main characters (Marcus, Seth). Our clutzy new recruit Pegasus knight (Florina). Our Pegasus knight with unrequited love for the main character (Catria, Elincia). Our knight who is basically the butt of all jokes (Roger, Arden). Our fanatical scholar mage (Canas, Lute). Our wassup brah dudebro fighter (Bartre, Boyd). Our cleric little sister to the main character (Elice, Mist). Our gold-hungry thief (Rennac, Heather). Our pedobait manakete (Tiki, Myrrh). Our dark sorcerer bent on resurrecting the dark god (Gharnef, Manfloy, Nergal, Riev). Our creeper rapist minor villain (Kempf, Narcian, Gheb, Oliver).

The basis for all these gimmicks is already-established characters. FE13 just takes them to an almost illogical and ridiculous level. Hence, parody.

Elice is Marth's elder sister.

[amadeuscho]

I do think things like the sparkle tiles are parody/jokes. Some are serious but many are jokes. They clearly are meant to be taken seriously. Same with level ups. I mean, have you heard any of Owain's for either. There are many others in the game.

The Barracks? Clearly a joke. It's the Bendis approach. It's what people talk about when they aren't fighting.

Don't take things to seriously. It is literally just a game.

[1% critted]

In fact, the game not taking itself seriously at times, is what makes it my favorite.

[General Banzai]

Don't take things to seriously. It is literally just a game.

I rescind my previous statement, this is the pussest thing ever spoke by man

like seriously? we're all on an internet forum talking about this game

don't pull the "it's just a game card"

[amadeuscho]

I rescind my previous statement, this is the pussest thing ever spoke by man

like seriously? we're all on an internet forum talking about this game

don't pull the "it's just a game card"

Personal attacks aren't really necessary.

It is a video game. The event tiles are like a fun thing they put in, and somehow they ruin the story. It's just bonus people. Are Zelda games ruined when Link pointlessly holds up weapon and sometimes your buddy character cracks a joke? How bout all the corny side skits in the Tales games where the characters are on picnics laughing about nothing. No. Because it's bonus.

People have nostalgia glasses on to convince them that FE7 and FE8's Stop an evil dragon and dark stones of doom turned my friend evil aren't cliches.

Ninian magically comes backs to live in an even more contrived when then Emmeryn, in the definitely canon part of the game. Emmeryn comes back in just as contrived a way, in essentially a bonus chapter. Suddenly the death of Emmeryn's impact is removed because of bonus chapter that comes out months after the games' release, and yet Ninian's magical revival is OK when it happens in the game.

And dark stones. Eirika is probably the most unintelligently written lord in FE history. Lyon essential gets corrupted by some "dark stones."

I'll grant that FE9 and FE10 have better storylines, FE9 especially. But they are also way better than the GBA games and Marth's games. Neither are on the Tellius saga's leagues.

You spelled pussiest wrong.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Viewtiful_J

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

I thought that they were pretty well done cliches, and this may have just been gameplay, but I way preferred FE7 to FE13. I still feel that Emmeryn's "death" means nothing as she was about to get to killed anyway. Ninian was manipulated by Nergal and forced to attack Eliwood. Her death had a much bigger impact on me than Emmeryn's. Emmeryn was also a pretty flat character, and stubborn by the fact that she went back to Ylisstol in chapter seven.

I respect your opinions, and I can see how you can not like Ninian's death.

[NinjaMonkey]

If Cynthia didn't have a gimmick, perhaps I wouldn't get so irritated by her.

Well, there's still her (in my opinion) horrible voice acting to irritate me, I suppose.

Edited September 20, 2013 by NinjaMonkey

[Elieson]

I honestly think the games' most shining moments come from Chrom's reactions to things like:

Tharja's, libra's and Gaius' recruitment

Conversations regarding Annas

Golden Pack DLC

Where he's literally like "the fuck is wrong with you ppl"

[General Banzai]

Personal attacks aren't really necessary.

it wasnt a personal attack

People have nostalgia glasses on to convince them that FE7 and FE8's Stop an evil dragon and dark stones of doom turned my friend evil aren't cliches.

who gives a shit if its cliche if its well-done

And dark stones. Eirika is probably the most unintelligently written lord in FE history. Lyon essential gets corrupted by some "dark stones."

tell me anything you like, any story, even goddam shakespeare, and i can summarize it in a sentence that makes it seem trivial and silly

stripping a story down like that in order to attack it means absolutely nothing

whats important is the story itself, and all facets of it, which isnt just "is my biased one-sentence explanation cliched" but an entire range of things including execution writing characters tone theme symbolism suspense tension conflict depth etc etc etc

eirikas a better written lord than most lords in FE, certainly better than Sigurd Lyn Micaiah and Lief (lief's fucking game is "how many times can lief fuck up and then get told he fucked up by his million advisors" <- oh look i can do the one sentence trivialization as well, because guess what really lief's story is brilliant)

Edited September 20, 2013 by General Banzai

[Constable Reggie]

People have nostalgia glasses on to convince them that FE7 and FE8's Stop an evil dragon and dark stones of doom turned my friend evil aren't cliches.

Ninian magically comes backs to live in an even more contrived when then Emmeryn, in the definitely canon part of the game. Emmeryn comes back in just as contrived a way, in essentially a bonus chapter. Suddenly the death of Emmeryn's impact is removed because of bonus chapter that comes out months after the games' release, and yet Ninian's magical revival is OK when it happens in the game.

And dark stones. Eirika is probably the most unintelligently written lord in FE history. Lyon essential gets corrupted by some "dark stones."

I'll grant that FE9 and FE10 have better storylines, FE9 especially. But they are also way better than the GBA games and Marth's games. Neither are on the Tellius saga's leagues.

You spelled pussiest wrong.

I too can generalize the shit out of someone and say that the fe13 hype is distorting your view of the game.

Even if we ignore the fact that you didn't even get Fe7's plot summary right, if all you can judge from fe7/8's story is their summarizable plots, then honestly, you've missed the point. The plots in those two games are the backdrops for the characters, and that's what makes them so compelling. Focusing on Brammimond somehow reviving Ninian is irrelevant; what's important is the closure of the character of Ninian. Likewise, only saying that Lyon is corrupted by dark stones is disingenuous at best. The corruption exists to characterize Lyon and his complex relationship with Ephraim/Eirika, and the repercussions of that relationship.

What importance does Emmeryn's death hold when you kill Gangrel just two chapters later and immediately go right to the next arc with no real time to contemplate her death's impact? What does Emmeryn's bonus chapter do for her character besides give more of the blatant fanservice this game is infamous for? She wasn't brought back in order to bring closure to her character, or anything similarly important, she was brought back so people could have her as their waifu.

Also banzai your assertion that Awakening is some kind of satire of the Fe formula is fucking hilarious, and not for the reasons you'd think

Edited September 20, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[General Banzai]

fanservice is a kind of satire in its own right

its saying "oh we could bring emm back for character development + closure but we all know the real reason you want her back" with a sly wink at the player

its like meta-satire, satirizing the player themselves instead of satirizing the story (and FE13 still satirizes the story)