Eail Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Thoughts on this everyone? First time it's happened since '95 back in the day when we shut down for 28 days, who knows how long this may last, I certainly don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 My US Government teacher talked with my class and I about this today. I think it shouldn't have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Canada's done this twice in the last decade, you'll barely notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) Wouldn't have thought it possible had not for this note... Huh, well, there went trying to renew my passport for now. Edited October 1, 2013 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifer Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I believe the what the political parties say about each other. If they say that the other is the cause of the shutdown and both unwilling to compromise, they are both correct. If they say the other party is making progress on the talks, then they are making progress. I believe that they will make a deal though and avoid US government defaulting on its debt. Obamacare will hopefully go through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) What the...? How does that even work? A government shutting down? Does that mean anarchy? Because there's no government governing? Or are they still governing? And if they are, how can a government that's shut down still govern? Isn't it technically not "shut down," then? SO MANY QUESTIONS! WHAT IS THIS MESS?! Edited October 1, 2013 by Fruity Insanity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButteredToast Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) It's not a permanent thing to worry about. I'm rather neutral on this issue, considering I don't think this forum is an appropriate forum for this kind of discussion. But carry on, I would like to hear what you guys think :) Edit: I didn't see what this topic stemmed from, so please disregard that comment :) Edited October 1, 2013 by Cal the Tactician Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 What the...? How does that even work? I'm not too sure myself, but from what I've been reading in the past hour it doesn't seem to be something that'll affect a majority of US citizens, and only concerns federal reorganization. I could be completely mistaken, though; I hadn't even been aware that policy for such a contingency existed till today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Well, according from what I've been searching up, stuff like National Parks, the Smithsonian, etc, will be closed down. Also, foreigners won't be able to apply for a passport and/or visa for the time being. And quite possibly other stuff will happen, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I'm not too sure myself, but from what I've been reading in the past hour it doesn't seem to be something that'll affect a majority of US citizens, and only concerns federal reorganization. I could be completely mistaken, though; I hadn't even been aware that policy for such a contingency existed till today. Ah, I was also just reading about this on CNN and Yahoo... (because, y'know, why wouldn't you read about it if you're country's government shut down.) Depending on how long the government's down, it could have severe economical consequences. Several days? Okay. Several weeks? Uh-oh. Speaking of which, the US's debt is about to reach the debt cap, which means that Obama will have to ask to raise the debt ceiling in a couple of weeks. What terrible timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadeuscho Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) What the...? How does that even work? A government shutting down? Does that mean anarchy? Because there's no government governing? Or are they still governing? And if they are, how can a government that's shut down still govern? Isn't it technically not "shut down," then? SO MANY QUESTIONS! WHAT IS THIS MESS?! basically what it comes down to is that every year the national government passes a budget to deal with the costs of that year and fund the government. usually it runs out before the end of the fiscal year so they need stopgaps when the time comes. its routine procedure and it sucks because budgeting is ugly and corrupt (pork barrel spending and what not), but usually it ultimately goes through. This time it didn't. As the last time this happened, it happened because one political party decided to play political football with money issues. this isn't even the first time something this has happened over the last 5 years. Budgets should be a budgets, not unrelated issues like Obamacare. Blaming both parties equally allows one side to let go of it's responsibilities as a governing party. This happened because the Speaker of the House has no control of his caucus, and basically bends to whatever the caucus wants because he wants to stay speaker. That's not leadership. Edited October 1, 2013 by Viewtiful_J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Canada's done this twice in the last decade, you'll barely notice. This. Hopefully Obamacare goes through in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I believe the what the political parties say about each other. If they say that the other is the cause of the shutdown and both unwilling to compromise, they are both correct. If they say the other party is making progress on the talks, then they are making progress. I believe that they will make a deal though and avoid US government defaulting on its debt. Obamacare will hopefully go through. that's not how it works, unless not completely caving in is "unwilling to compromise" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I hope if they continue Obamacare, that they take out a great deal of it's expenditures. It's simply not sustainable the way it's setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadeuscho Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I hope if they continue Obamacare, that they take out a great deal of it's expenditures. It's simply not sustainable the way it's setup. Obamacare is not going to shut down or even delayed. It's the law of the land and should be unattached to any continuing resolution to fund the government. Even then, the Senate is controlled by Democrats and Obama has his veto pen. The opposition would need 2/3 majority in both the House and the Senate in order to override the veto of the president. They don't even have 2/3 of the house and they don't even control the senate. There is no way Obama will let anything go through to damage his signature legislative accomplishment. Obamacare is already happening. There is no stopping it. It's settled law. Anyone trying to shut it down would be much better served to actually try and improve the program. Rather voting 40 times to remove it, with no progress in that direction. Since the house basically bargained down their defunding of Obamacare threat, they won't be able to use it in the coming debt ceiling debate. Which hopefully, will allow that vote be a little more routine this time around. That way, the credit of the United States isn't damaged like it was before in the 2011 debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) basically what it comes down to is that every year the national government passes a budget to deal with the costs of that year and fund the government. usually it runs out before the end of the fiscal year so they need stopgaps when the time comes. its routine procedure and it sucks because budgeting is ugly and corrupt (pork barrel spending and what not), but usually it ultimately goes through. This time it didn't. As the last time this happened, it happened because one political party decided to play political football with money issues. this isn't even the first time something this has happened over the last 5 years. Budgets should be a budgets, not unrelated issues like Obamacare. Blaming both parties equally allows one side to let go of it's responsibilities as a governing party. This happened because the Speaker of the House has no control of his caucus, and basically bends to whatever the caucus wants because he wants to stay speaker. That's not leadership. Viewtiful stop having such well thought out opinions and stuff, you make the rest of us look bad. kthnx. Anyways I agree with Viewtiful (obviously), and would go a step further and say that I think that the Democrats did exactly the right thing here, because if this sort of hostage taking was ever allowed to work (and that's really what it is: hostage taking), it would have extremely negative consequences for future governing, for both parties. I don't need to get into a rant, so I'm stopping this post here. Edited October 1, 2013 by Euklyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest meibum Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Canada's done this twice in the last decade, you'll barely notice. I was just thinking the same thing lmao. It doesn't change much ;p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 A quote from a friend of mine on FB (disclaimer: I don't know enough about the issues to either agree or disagree with such a statement - also we're both English): Right-wing lunatics have shut own the US government in an attempt to stop steps towards public healthcare, like we have in the civilised world. The American people have failed in their constitutional duty to form a militia and have them up before a firing squad, thus we will just have to accept the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 So I just heard a bit of this in the morning news. Apparently if this isn't over by the 17th they will start failing to pay out the national debt... well, I don't quite remember the exact details, but it was definitely about stopping to pay out a debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashiane Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 ... I don't even. I love my country, but sometimes the government makes it really fucking hard to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 A condensed explanation of the effects: 800,000 federal employees have to go home. There’s no money to pay them, and coming to work on a volunteer basis gets into some tricky legal areas. While in the past they have successfully lobbied for back pay, there’s no guarantee of it with a divided congress. Air-traffic controllers will remain on duty. ATCs are government employees, but they are members of the 2-million odd employees that are marked as “essential”. They likely will not receive paychecks, however, until the shutdown ends. Airport delays. While the FAA’s security screeners are essential employees, many of the people who work to support them logistically are not. Visa applications and fees will continue to be processed, and foreign embassies and consulates remain open. So if you’re waiting on a visa application, don’t worry, it’s still in the works - though again, it’ll almost certainly be a slower process. Homeland Security and green card operations are included here, though DHS’ e-verify program - the thing that checks on the immigration status of job applicants - will no longer operate. NASA will furlough most of its employees. Essential mission control operations and employees will continue, but the vast majority of NASA employees are going home - and I do mean home, because NASA’s on-site housing for employees is being shut down. The military stops receiving paychecks. While the million and a half members of the US Armed Services stay on duty, they won’t get paid until after the shutdown. The postal service continues as normal. The federal court system stops. According to The Guardian, the federal courts would operate as normal for about 10 days before they have to start sending people home. The NIH screeches to a halt. That includes accepting new patients for clinical research, as well as answering medical questions on their hotline. The CDC will stop its seasonal flu program. According to the Washington Post, it will also have “a significantly reduced capacity to respond to outbreak investigations.” HUD will no longer be able to provide local housing authorities with vouchers. So if you live in government-subsidized housing, your status is very much up in the air. Parks and museums will close. Yosemite, Alcatraz, Yellowstone, the Smithsonian, the Library of Congress, the Statue of Liberty, and about 400 other locations will close - though interestingly, the Southern Rim of the Grand Canyon will remain open, because the state of Arizona is picking up the bill. The EPA will shut down. The only thing that stays open at the EPA during a government shutdown is its operations around Superfund sites. OSHA will shut down. Social Security will be partially defunded. Social Security, as an entitlement, will remain open enough to keep the checks going out, but will lose enough staff that they won’t be able to schedule new hearings. VA Benefits will be cut. VA hospitals remain open, but that’s about it - and if the shutdown lasts longer than a few weeks, the Department of Veterans Affairs has said that it might not have enough money to pay disability claims and pensions. A visual metaphor, for your convenience: Right-wing lunatics have shut own the US government in an attempt to stop steps towards public healthcare, like we have in the civilised world. The American people have failed in their constitutional duty to form a militia and have them up before a firing squad, thus we will just have to accept the consequences. England RE us- The common man speaks out: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eail Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 So I just heard a bit of this in the morning news. Apparently if this isn't over by the 17th they will start failing to pay out the national debt... well, I don't quite remember the exact details, but it was definitely about stopping to pay out a debt. Basically what's going to happen is, if the Government can't get it's stuff together there's a decent chance the US may default on it's debt. And that's not a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Yeah, "raising the debt limit" is, in effect, just paying the debt we already owe, so the idea that this is a thing that is even up for debate, when it has basically never been an issue before this decade- as in, raising the debt limit has been thought of as a formality on all sides for most of U.S. history- defies rational explanation. Nobody has anything to win, if we don't raise it. And the debt isn't even rising at nearly the old gangbusters rate anymore, despite the expectations and gloom. There are some bad things happening in the U.S. that are the fault of both parties. These are not among them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) I'm not american and i just have a superficial view on the subject, but i'll just say that i find it outrageous that the US doesn't have public healthcare and i find it even more outrageous that there are so many people opposing it. It's literally the only developed country where this happens. Edited October 1, 2013 by Nobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) I'm not american and i just have a superficial view on the subject, but i'll just say that i find it outrageous that the US doesn't have public healthcare and i find it even more outrageous that there are so many people opposing it. It's literally the only developed country where this happens. This is America you're talking about here. Edited October 1, 2013 by Fruity Insanity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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