link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[Refa]

Use Ike and Zihark obviously. Then if Zihark had a support with the MOST USEFUL CHARACTER EVER Muarim, he'd have 123% base avoid. Deadeye Snipers can't touch that shit with a Brave Bow.

[Da Bear]

Use Ike and Zihark obviously. Then if Zihark had a support with the MOST USEFUL CHARACTER EVER Muarim, he'd have 123% base avoid. Deadeye Snipers can't touch that shit with a Brave Bow.

Kill Ike first.

That is a problem though, basically makes you build a team around those two.

[Espinosa]

Ike X Zihark is nowhere as centralising as Oscar x Ike. Hell, I can't even say if it's any significantly better than Oscar x Tanith.

My favourite on the list is Makalov x Brom. Gives +3 defence to some of the bulkiest units in the game already.

[PKL]

I wonder if bands would really make custom averages w/skills better or not. It would probably make stuff overpowered.

[Espinosa]

You'd have speedy Generals that don't take any resources (allowing you to run a General and somebody like Nasir in the same team) and really annoying Runesword wars with much higher magic stats than before. That seems to be the main change that this makes and honestly it's not a good one.

Honestly, it's not worth it, and the idea is not even complete because if bands are in, then 1) why not add the growth boosts that weapons provide, like Steel Axe's +5% atk? 2) and might as well manage which enemies you target, modifying the growths further, and for how much experience on each hit, 3) there's also the Fixed Mode base abuse for units like Makalov and Titania, though Makalov's got all the important stuff capped pretty much.

I mean, I understand that the introduction of bands is a simplification, but the usage of the word is really ironic here because it actually makes the team building process a lot more complicated for the players and the hosts, considering you can take different numbers of levels to work on different stats (e.g. Brom spends 10 levels with the Knight Ward and the rest with a Wyvern Band).

I think I understand what Anon's doing here, but if you want to have an actual precise database for that, then it should probably look something like this (stats do not reflect the reality)

Ike   52.25  22.5  18.4   27.65  35.4 etc.

where the decimals simply point to what the unit's averages are taking into account the Fixed Mode 1st level gains. This allows players to choose which bands they want to apply for which levels. e.g. 9 levels with the Mage Band, 10 levels with the Priest Band, 20 levels with the Knight Ward. In this event, we also have to decide if anything rounds up at all (since we're using Fixed Mode averages with the base growth values).

It's such a pain in the arse for the formation of database tables, and for team & match generation for players and hosts alike, and the changes that occur are either miniscule (most units) or detrimental (speedy Generals leaving Speedwings for Laguz, Runesword hax with low hits but pretty huge damage numbers even on non-Mist/Elincia units while resistance cannot be boosted as high as magic).

It should be done in the way I described, if done at all, but really, how much motivation will anyone have to play and run games with such changes? The levels of precision that are introduced are more appropriate to making jewels than playing FE Link Arena.

[Hawkeye]

I was under the impression that all the hosts sort of made their own spreadsheets and whatnot. I've got one for fe9 and fe5 that's been gathering dust for however long it's been since I stopped hosting, but it is neither pretty nor intuitive. I'll hopefully get around to improving on it and getting back into hosting soon.

[Espinosa]

The only "sheet" I have is an Excel calculator to figure out hit accuracies. And even then, I don't use it much when running PoR games anymore. It's just quicker to do the maths in the Calculator program (or in your head). Now, for GBA with the thick supports, I really do need the Excel calculator.

[Elieson]

The only "sheet" I have is an Excel calculator to figure out hit accuracies. And even then, I don't use it much when running PoR games anymore. It's just quicker to do the maths in the Calculator program (or in your head). Now, for GBA with the thick supports, I really do need the Excel calculator.

This.

Also I thought weapon related growth rates were proven to be a hoax

[Tables]

Do Laguz count as Laguz (for weaknesses) while untransformed? Do bird Laguz count as flying while untransformed? Wyvern Riders are NOT weak to Thunder in FE9, correct?

Also is there anywhere which lists CON data for everyone (I can get it from the site by taking base CON, adding promotion bonuses, adding transformation bonuses etc. but if there's a list, that's easier)? Is CON gain halved when using a Demi band?

Edited March 3, 2014 by Tables

[Psych]

CON doesn't matter except for pushing since weapon weight uses strength and we don't use pushing.

[Espinosa]

Do Laguz count as Laguz (for weaknesses) while untransformed? Do bird Laguz count as flying while untransformed?

Yes to the first question. The only weakness of untransformed Laguz is laguzslaying weaponry. All others are related to transformation into Laguz classes (bows and the three magic elements).

Wyvern Riders are NOT weak to Thunder in FE9, correct?

Nope; only to wind.

Also is there anywhere which lists CON data for everyone (I can get it from the site by taking base CON, adding promotion bonuses, adding transformation bonuses etc. but if there's a list, that's easier)? Is CON gain halved when using a Demi band?

I had the idea in mind before we introduced custom skills, but Colossus is such a bad skill now that custom skills are the standard; that's why I never added Con to the databases. Demi Band does not halve or otherwise affectc the con bonuses of transformed Laguz.

[General Horace]

Use Ike and Zihark obviously. Then if Zihark had a support with the MOST USEFUL CHARACTER EVER Muarim, he'd have 123% base avoid. Deadeye Snipers can't touch that shit with a Brave Bow.

they still have like 60 hit, i already tried Janaff, who has more avoid.

[Elieson]

Silver bows still run like 180ish acc ( so 50ish hit). deadeye doubles that to a very reliable number. And silver bows still hurt like a bitch (on snipers I mean)

Edited March 3, 2014 by Elieson

[Espinosa]

25 capped strength + 18 mt of forged silver bow isn't really the highest around, but the tactical benefits and the procs make it all worthwhile.

[Elieson]

Zihark still needs investment in a robe or both shields to avoid being 2hkod by Rolf with one drop

[Espinosa]

He needs investments in general I think, not specifically because of Rolf.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Going to Espionsa, I didn't know growth bonuses got so complex. I also understand your idea, and as a maniac I like. However, I do see why others wouldn't want to deal with it all.

[Tables]

Yes to the first question. The only weakness of untransformed Laguz is laguzslaying weaponry. All others are related to transformation into Laguz classes (bows and the three magic elements).

Oh, that works quite nicely then. Only Laguz have two weaknesses, so I can just disregard any 'second' weakness type if the unit isn't transformed.

I had the idea in mind before we introduced custom skills, but Colossus is such a bad skill now that custom skills are the standard; that's why I never added Con to the databases. Demi Band does not halve or otherwise affectc the con bonuses of transformed Laguz.

Okay, thanks. I've added it into my sheet, just in case someone does use Colossus (maybe some kind of hyper offence build?) or if people want to play masteries only matches or whatever, and it wasn't too much effort to do (thankfully, CON gains from promotion are almost all +1 except Ilyana, who gets +2). It's such a dumb restriction, for such a weak skill though, even in-game ¬_¬.

[Elieson]

Colossus is awful because it is a 20CAP skill with a SKL % chance of +7 damage, vs like adept which is same proc rate, but a whole entire attack.

[Tables]

Yeah I know why it's bad, but you know, maybe +7 damage might be all you need under certain circumstances. And don't forget, if it procs while you're in resolve range, you get +11 damage! And that only takes up 30 of your 25 cap, so it's not too... unlikely the mod won't notice?

More question! I notice Longbow is listed as a common weapon under bows. I can't see why. What advantage does it have over any other bow (as best I can tell, 2-3 range will never do anything compared to just 2 range)?

Edited March 4, 2014 by Tables

[Icon of Sin]

Are you talking FE9 or FE10 now, because not only can't you have Resolve with it in FE9, but in FE10 Resolve doesn't even boost Strength and its damage calculation is different.

[Elieson]

Dude tables, collosus having 20 cap means your Boyd/Largo can only run Miracle, Shade,Provoke or Parity.

[Icon of Sin]

The Longbow is a remnant of when attacking from any range was allowed, so you could attack bow, javelin or hand axe users with it safely.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Woodshooter

[Tables]

Are you talking FE9 or FE10 now, because not only can't you have Resolve with it in FE9, but in FE10 Resolve doesn't even boost Strength and its damage calculation is different.

Dude tables, collosus having 20 cap means your Boyd/Largo can only run Miracle, Shade,Provoke or Parity.

I guess the 'hope the mod won't notice' comment and the '30 of your 25 cap' comments didn't make it obvious I was joking? I'll... try and be less subtle in the future (is that even possible?).

The Longbow is a remnant of when attacking from any range was allowed, so you could attack bow, javelin or hand axe users with it safely.

Okay. I can probably remove it from the list of common weapons then.

More question! I can't get enough! Can siege tomes be countered? I think they can't but best to check. If they can, what can counter them - just other siege tomes, or anything which is potentially in the range (like Longbow and Double Bow lol)

I've assumed that forges have -5 wt. I don't think this ever matters though, but if it does can anyone tell me if I'm right to make this assumption or not?

Edited March 4, 2014 by Tables

[Icon of Sin]

The joke is probably Colossus itself.

Siege tomes can't be countered and I don't think I've ever seen that happen in a Nintendo made FE game. You can double at best in few situations but don't push your luck too far.

Forges don't lower weight. That would probably only affect Rhys anyway.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Woodshooter