link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[Psych]

PS I think we need to allow staves now, because you can fight with them, and their held effects will be fun to play with.

[Elieson]

Just use Tier Two units and things, though I'm unsure if Laguz act in tiers since they just have 40 levels. I think we should probably fix Florete so that is uses Magic as intended, rather than it bugged, since Amiti makes Elinicia okay, but Runesword was kind of Mist's only option in FE9.

Another thing is that all items will be available except Lehran's tome I think. I don't remember the name, but Disarm and Stealing allows other items to be taken.

FE10 in a nutshell

1. Supports can only exist between unit A-B, so no more of this multisupport stacking nonsense
2. There's leadership [read: authority] stars to account for, for basic calculations
3. CAP is now 30 for Tier-2 Units (along with innate skills costing 0 for their respective holders) a slew of extra skills (including Satori Signs)
4. Stat Caps (for Tier 1 and Tier 2 classes, instead of all Tier1 sharing the same caps across the board) and Skills are completely different, as are Laguz transformation stats
5. Unique Weaponry that is most definitely different than in FE9 (Lughnasadh, for instance)
6. Other unique notes, like male SMs having access to SS weaponry, while female SMs having access only to S weaponry
7. Forging is pretty much the same at least
8. Knives are incredibly prevalent in this meta
9. Bonds only add +10 to Crit and CritEVade, and A supports from FE9 translate into +5 bond supports that either are created as entirely new bonds, or stack with previous bonds
10. Laguz stats need to be appropriately balanced with the altered stats of FE10 units, if we're restricting FE10 units to a 2 tier system
11. How do we even designate Transfer bonuses
12. Critical bonuses are all wonky
13. Staves can be used in combat, but it's entirely stupid to have a staff equipped when you're countering for baseStr+1
14. What about Crossbows?

There's a metric ton of fuck that needs to be sorted out if we're going to establish any general mechanics for FE10 battles

Edited March 14, 2014 by Elieson

[Elieson]

Also, I'd just assume we say fuck coins, because that makes forged weaponry all sorts of complicated

[Elieson]

Also, in Hard mode, Weapon Triangle bonuses are shut down entirely. Calculations are extremely nutty in that regard

[Elieson]

FE10 in a nutshell

1. Supports can only exist between unit A-B, so no more of this multisupport stacking nonsense - Extremely easy for a host to manage, as support stacking simply doesn't occur
2. There's leadership [read: authority] stars to account for, for basic calculations - The only major change to calculations, aside from the (what should be unused) Affinity bonus
3. CAP is now 30 for Tier-2 Units (along with innate skills costing 0 for their respective holders) a slew of extra skills (including Satori Signs) - Dealing with Innates and skill shuffling will be a creative mess
4. Stat Caps (for Tier 1 and Tier 2 classes, instead of all Tier1 sharing the same caps across the board) and Skills are completely different, as are Laguz transformation stats - This can be adjusted for between-game usage, and between-mechanic usage as well, but pretty much destroys balance between FE10 Beorc/Laguz and FE9 Beorc/Laguz, mainly by shafting FE10 Laguz
5. Unique Weaponry that is most definitely different than in FE9 (Lughnasadh, for instance) - Which can be used in FE10, and applied easily
6. Other unique notes, like male SMs having access to SS weaponry, while female SMs having access only to S weaponry - Among other things
7. Forging is pretty much the same at least - Assumed +5 Mt/+25 Hit/+0 Crt/-5 Wt
8. Knives are incredibly prevalent in this meta - Thieves and Sages primarily, can use these and potentially function (though, most magic users appear to be awful in this meta anyway)
9. Bonds no longer entirely negate criticals, as they only add +10 to Crit and CritEVade, and A supports from FE9 translate into +5 bond supports that either are created as entirely new bonds, or stack with previous bonds - How to approach FE9 inclusion?
10. Laguz stats need to be appropriately balanced with the altered stats of FE10 units, if we're restricting FE10 units to a 2 tier system - Problematic, at best
11. How do we even designate Transfer bonuses - A suggestion I'd offer up is that we either include them across the board, or drop them entirely, as if FE9 didn't even exist
12. Critical bonuses are all wonky - Mainly if you're looking at the +5/+10/+15 Crit skills for SMs, Snipers, etc. These can all be done by hand I guess
13. Staves can be used in combat, but it's entirely stupid to have a staff equipped when you're countering for baseStr+1 - If held, a unit receives X bonus (+30HP from Fortify, +5 Spd from Rescue, etc), but must enter combat with it if engaged. Restriction to FE10 is in order
14. What about Crossbows? - Shoudn't be used in an FE9 setting IMO, but can easily be integrated into FE10

There's a metric ton of fuck that needs to be sorted out if we're going to establish any general mechanics for FE10 battles

In all honesty, running calculations for FE10 won't be that difficult from a host's POV, as it's extremely similar to FE9 mechanics (Add Authority Stars, change Bonds to function entirely as standard bonds and not protection bonds, and remove Stackable supports), but unit generation combined with weapon allocation will need to all be brushed over with a fine-toothed comb upon submittion. That, and of course, Mastery inclusion. All else could probably be handled just as well.

In fact, upon closer inspection of everything, one could probably take those mechanics and apply them to BTs fairly easily. I can't speak for unit balance in averages though, as I haven't really applied much, but I'd be willing to run a match if we could figure out a way to handle the extremely complex Mastery system; maybe:

• Altering FE10 masteries to function as FE9 masteries

OR

• Simply cut each mastery's raw damage bonus in half (as many are 3x Str, with wildcards using 5x Str, 4x Str or 3x Damage)

[Psych]

Sages can't use knives in 10

[charlie_]

they can use RESOLVE WRATH RESCUE STAVES though

[Espinosa]

Staff users have such terrible speed caps though. Except maybe Queen and Chancellor.

[Elieson]

Resolve doesn't boost Str in 10, fwiw

[AnonymousSpeed]

Staff users have such terrible speed caps though. Except maybe Queen and Chancellor.

Laura has a good speed growth though, and in averages that could work. I don't know her exact cap/average though, but as a female she should have a higher speed cap.

Resolve doesn't boost Str in 10, fwiw

Yeah, that sucks, but face it, resolve is really only rivaled by thinks like Nihil for best/most popular skills in FE9 metas. People with use Failroneo just for his free copy.

[Elieson]

I absolutely hate FE10 with all that I am. That being said;


[spoiler=Finite Weaponry]

--Sword
Brave Sword x3
Wo Dao x4
Tempest Blade x4
Alondite
Florete x2
Ettard x2
Caladbolg
Amiti
Ragnell
Vague Katti
Amiti
 
--Lance
Brave Lance
Wishblade
 
--Axe
Urvan
Brave Axe
 
--Bow
Silencer x2
Double Bow
Lughnasadh
 
--Bowgun
Taksh x3
Aqqar
Arbalest
 
--Knife
Kard
Beast Killer x3
Stiletto x2
Peshkatz x2
Baselard
 
--Tome (Fire)
Bolganone x2
Meteor x3
Rexflame
Cymbaline
 
--Tome (Thunder)
Bolting x3
Thoron x4
Rexbolt
 
--Tome (Wind)
Blizzard x2
Tornado
Rexcalibur
 
--Tome (Light)
Nosferatu x3
Valaura
Rexaura
Thani x2
 
--Tome (Dark)
Fenrir
Carreau x2
Verrine x2
Balberith
 
--Staff *Still counting these*
Torch
Unlock
Hammerne
Sleep
Rescue
Fortify
Matrona
Silence
Ashera Staff
Elsleep
Elsilence

[spoiler=Finite Stat Boosters]

Seraph Robe x3
Energy Drop x3
Spirit Dust x3
Secret Book x3
Speedwings x3
Ashera Icon x4
Dracoshield x3
Talisman
Statue Frag x3

[spoiler=Finite Items]

Rudol Gem x2
Laguz Gem x3

[spoiler=Non-Innate Skills]

Beastfoe
Renewal
Parity
Vantage
Nullify
Flourish
Shade
Corrosion
Quickclaw
Howl
Daunt
Adept
Imbue
Nihil
Mercy
Dragonfoe
Maelstrom
Birdfoe
Shriek
Pavise
Guard
Daunt
Formshift
Wildheart

[spoiler=Innate (Re-assignable) Skills]

Wrath x3
Cancel x2
Nihil x3
Guard x2
Shade
Fortune x2
Howl
Wildheart
Resolve x2
Adept x2
Imbue
Shriek
Renewal x2
Disarm
Parity
Gamble
Counter
Miracle x3
Provoke x2
Vantage x2
Quickclaw
Savior
Pavise
Maelstrom
Corrosion
Boon x2
Nullify
Stillness

Suggestions for implementing a FE10 Link Arena

• Traditional FE10 Calculations for battle and transformation
• Maintaining forges with +5 Mt, +25 Hit and -5 Wt
• With 0 accessories (mostly as they're converted to skills instead, such as Nullify), Inventories may include up to 5 weapons
• Rudol Gems and Laguz Gauge altering items banned
• Venin weaponry banned
• No Healing items
• Staves are restricted for combat-use only
• GBA Mechs that allow 1~2 range weaponry to counter any attack
• Cards are allowed, and may be used instead of a weapon-based attack. These count towards the inventory, but cannot be used to counter with
• No triangle attack
• Traditional skill capacity of 60 for Beorc and 70 for Laguz (with applied nonremovable Mastery skill)
• Transfers for FE9->FE10 Unit Stats are not applied
• A-Support Transfers for Bond application for FE9->FE10 Unit Bonds are not applied
• Easy/Normal mode calculations (Weapon Triangle Bonuses are applied)

Skill modifications for Link Arena Simulatuon

• Guard designates its activation rate at (Support Level*10)% OR is repurposed to act as FE9 guard (identically to FE10 Cancel)
• Heron Chants cannot be used, except for Valor
• Cutting Mastery Skill damage modifiers to 1/2 of their original value
• Sacrifice and White/Red/Black Tide are considered inactive and removed, and do not count towards the Skill CAP of their respective holders
• Skill scrolls and stat boosters cannot be used on Laguz Royals (Nailah, Tibarn, Naesala, Skrimir, Giffca, Caineghis, Kurthnaga and Deghinsea).
• Laguz Royals all have innate Formshift, and are considered Transformed at the beginning of each battle
• Lehran's Mantle does not prevent damage from non-Yune blessed weaponry, but maintains innate Fortune+Nihil+Imbue[Luck]
• Provoke and Shade are applied for 2 turns of combat, while Stillness is applied for 4 turns of combat
• Glare can only be used once per battle
• Daunt is applied to the opponent's entire team
• Nihil may be only two units max

Edited March 16, 2014 by Elieson

[Elieson]

Made some edits to the above post.

Throw me some input, and if we reach clarity, then we can begin an arena sim for FE10

[Randa]

Looking for an opponent in FE9. Rules are in the spoiler.

[spoiler=Rulez]

-No Dragons

-No Royals

-Boosters

-Full Skills

-No Ragnell

[AnonymousSpeed]

Looking for an opponent in FE9. Rules are in the spoiler.

[spoiler=Rulez]

-No Dragons

-No Royals

-Boosters

-Full Skills

-No Ragnell

Oscar support allowed?

[Randa]

I think so.

[General Horace]

I could host said game, i've played a lot recently and others should have a chance to do so.

I wouldn't get it up till very late tonight though, since i'll be out.

[AnonymousSpeed]

I think so.

Well, that does give me something of an idea, so I could do such a match. Really test Earth X Earth, see if it really is that hax.

EDIT: Also, there has been a request for an FE6 host on the front page...forever, so if the participating parties haven't given up, I'll host it.

Edited March 16, 2014 by AnonymousSpeed

[Randa]

Ok so I think we should just use the thread for our last match. Sending my new team to Horace now.

[General Horace]

I have a horrible (and i do mean pretty horrible) team that I want to try out that includes the cut supports in averages/no boosters that i'd like to try out, if there are any takers.

[AnonymousSpeed]

I have a horrible (and i do mean pretty horrible) team that I want to try out that includes the cut supports in averages/no boosters that i'd like to try out, if there are any takers.

I'll try it.

Also, wrong time to ask, but if a host gets a number equal to the percentage (I.e 3 and 3% crit), is it a hit/critical or not?

[Refa]

It's a miss/not critical.

[General Horace]

I'll try it.

Also, wrong time to ask, but if a host gets a number equal to the percentage (I.e 3 and 3% crit), is it a hit/critical or not?

OOPS

I meant averages WITH boosters. My bad. I don't think it'll change the answer but...

who wants to be a bro and host? Also you should confirm your team for your game with randa

Edited March 17, 2014 by General Horace

[Elieson]

So like, is anyone even looking at my work to try to organize/balance that which is FERD?

Heh

Ferd

[Espinosa]

The ideas are good, but I'd begin with innate skills only to see how everything works and then work from there.

I dunno though, doesn't anyone else think everybody in RD will just be attacking with S-rank weapons? Makes it a lot like FE8 arena.

[General Horace]

i was talking with pkl earlier and he said certain units like naesala would be pretty broken since he has 58 attack and 50 AS, and without laguzguards in fe10 he doubles everything and does ridiculous damage to everyone, and has ridiculous avoid and is hard to hit as well. That orko's every beorc unit with 28 defence or less except reavers who i think are the only class to break 60 hp cap...

that being said i'm not particularly interested in the fe10 meta regardless, and I probably won't play it since the class caps are all kinda strange.

also still looking for a host for an fe9 cut supports game

Edited March 18, 2014 by General Horace