link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[Espinosa]

Another idea for RD arena: Formshift needs to be manually activated during a player's turn while non-royals transform automatically and have a gradually diminishing 30/30 Laguz gauge from there. This is convenient because everybody with Formshift also happens to be really OP, but there are exceptions - Giffca is way more dangerous than Nailah for example. It also makes Kurth kinda unviable.

If we really care about keeping the skills, we could nerf them a bit, for example:

Luna - Triples Strength and negates enemy's Defence

becomes

Halves enemy's Defence.

Tear - Triples Strength and halves enemy's Speed for one turn

becomes

Halves enemy's speed.

Ire - Triples damage

becomes

Multiplies damage by 1.5.

Skills that exist in PoR could also transition to RD with their PoR mechanics. Funny thing is that Aether doesn't get improved in RD one bit, not requiring a nerf. The issue here is how far we take the balancing and modifying, because maintaining the authenticity of the original game has been a big thing thus far if you have noticed (outside of attempts to integrate Shade and Provoke). So it's important not to turn it into fan fiction. Because really, we might as well then give FE7 characters PoR skills - e.g. Priscilla gets Sol and Raven gets Aether. Actually, that sounds pretty awesome for a separate optional metagame.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Espinosa

[Elieson]

Fe7 with an fe9 skills metagame would be snazzy

[Quintessence]

Another idea for RD arena: Formshift needs to be manually activated during a player's turn while non-royals transform automatically and have a gradually diminishing 30/30 Laguz gauge from there. This is convenient because everybody with Formshift also happens to be really OP, but there are exceptions - Giffca is way more dangerous than Nailah for example. It also makes Kurth kinda unviable.

If we really care about keeping the skills, we could nerf them a bit, for example:

Luna - Triples Strength and negates enemy's Defence

becomes

Halves enemy's Defence.

Tear - Triples Strength and halves enemy's Speed for one turn

becomes

Halves enemy's speed.

Ire - Triples damage

becomes

Multiplies damage by 1.5.

Skills that exist in PoR could also transition to RD with their PoR mechanics. Funny thing is that Aether doesn't get improved in RD one bit, not requiring a nerf. The issue here is how far we take the balancing and modifying, because maintaining the authenticity of the original game has been a big thing thus far if you have noticed (outside of attempts to integrate Shade and Provoke). So it's important not to turn it into fan fiction. Because really, we might as well then give FE7 characters PoR skills - e.g. Priscilla gets Sol and Raven gets Aether. Actually, that sounds pretty awesome for a separate optional metagame.

Hey this sound gr9 to me, doing a mix between GBAs and FE9's skills.

Regarding RD: Wouldn't RD!Resolve be better? +Skl/Sp seems less broken than +Str/Skl/Sp.

And what's the Shade/Provoke treatment? How are they implemented here? Since peep can just order any unit attack any opponent, unless units with Shade are forced to be the last unit standing in the opposing team and units with Provoke are forced to be the first unit in the opposing team to face combat; or something alike, I dunno.

edit: like Shade!Meteor!Archsage spamming uses while the opposing team is forced to choose a non-Shade unit

Edited January 8, 2014 by Quintessence

[Espinosa]

Regarding RD: Wouldn't RD!Resolve be better? +Skl/Sp seems less broken than +Str/Skl/Sp.

You mean using RD Resolve mechanics in PoR? Seems unnecessary when Tauroneo, the only Resolve user w/o custom skills, is pretty subpar with the Top tier PoR units also around. The RD Resolve shouldn't be modified really - I'm talking about the really broken mastery skills which just OHKO everything on proc.

And what's the Shade/Provoke treatment? How are they implemented here? Since peep can just order any unit attack any opponent, unless units with Shade are forced to be the last unit standing in the opposing team and units with Provoke are forced to be the first unit in the opposing team to face combat; or something alike, I dunno.

Right now in the PoR averages meta, Shade wears off after 2 allies have been KO'd. An alternative I proposed was that you can only target the Shade user if you were targeted by them first (applies to each individual character not the whole team as there'd be little point in running Ilyana otherwise). I honestly think that in maximum stats meta, we might as well allow Shade and Provoke to function without limitation (Ilyana is less threatening with everybody getting a huge resistance boost), though Provoke is a no-no in a custom skills meta we are yet to have tried (you put it on a really good wall and proceed to destroy everything). There's also the Shinon + Reyson combo, but we could just ban Reyson period.

edit: like Shade!Meteor!Archsage spamming uses while the opposing team is forced to choose a non-Shade unit

Yeah, that's true, but there's always Nihil (on Ike and Nolan among others).

WRT the idea of giving FE7 units PoR skills. Everything seems generally obvious with many classes matching but then there's:

Eliwood - maybe Sol, or perhaps Aether.

Hector - Luna seems fitting since he's just a General without lances.

Lyn - Astra or Aether.

Raven/Harken - Aether is what Ike's unplayable dad has in PoR, but seems pretty broken for a non-Lord character. How about Adept? But then others might want non-Occult skills. This is tough.

Rath - I dunno, maybe Sol?

Canas - no reason not to give him Flare (lol @ halving res when using Luna).

Edited January 8, 2014 by Espinosa

[Elieson]

Flare with nosferatu? Yea

Flare with lolEclipse? Yea

Flare with Luna? Meh

Also hector is a general with swords instead of lances. Very big deal since Swordslayers exists.

IMO Eliwood should have Aether, Hector with Luna, Lyn with Astra

Raven/Harken with occult mediums of Astra I guess? That seems to be the skill among tier1swordlocked units anyway, and then you have Astra with Axes

[PKL]

How would maximum stats rhys with nosferatu do?

[Elieson]

Oh rath, kent, sain, etc with sol makes sense. Priscilla with sol doesn't make sense though since she's a magic user...unless it's her niche to have sol access among the mounts?

Would anything like innate skills even be worth considering?

[Espinosa]

Silencer is theoretically an option for Lyn. I'm not sure. Giving Eliwood Aether sounds like singling him out.

How would maximum stats rhys with nosferatu do?

36 Mt targeting res is pretty poor, I think. 25 AS is doubled by Giffca, Tibarn and Ena, too. Mia support (hello Snowy) gives him better attack and hit with it simultaneously, but his caps make him bad IMO.

If any Sage is usable not counting Shade utility, it's Soren. Supporting Ike for big avo boosts + atk is nice.

There are generally many good support-based teams in the maximum stats meta, moreso if you somehow ban royals and Ena/Nasir (since they don't support anyone at all).

[Elieson]

why is singling out the main lord of the game for aether different than ike, the main lord of his game(s) having aether? Giving it to Hector is just too much considering he is a general, and giving it to Two Mercs either breaks the mercs or the game.

You could give it to Lyn, but she's clearly a SM with bow access instead of innate 15 crit.

In a non-royals/non-Uber Laguz tier, Rhys does alright with Supports on Mia and Rexaura boosting his defense, though having no effectiveness hurts his offense significantly

Edited January 8, 2014 by Elieson

[Elieson]

Sticking to the fe9 skills layout, all 3 lords, and both heroes, should have Aether. Pris should have Sol, and only two units have access to Luna.

Upon more thought, giving them adept almost sounds fair

[Espinosa]

why is singling out the main lord of the game for aether different than ike, the main lord of his game(s) having aether? Giving it to Hector is just too much considering he is a general, and giving it to Two Mercs either breaks the mercs or the game.

You could give it to Lyn, but she's clearly a SM with bow access instead of innate 15 crit.

In a non-royals/non-Uber Laguz tier, Rhys does alright with Supports on Mia and Rexaura boosting his defense, though having no effectiveness hurts his offense significantly

Hector is a "Great Lord" and is a protagonist in the game just like Eliwood. He's also a foot unit (much like Ike and Chrom, two canonical users of Aether) whereas Eliwood is mounted, hence making Sol appropriate.

Priscilla could indeed get Flare instead of Sol as a tome user. I was trying to base her off Mist, but Mist's magic comes from using the magical swords. Priscilla is a mounted tome user on the other hand.

WRT distributing innate skills to FE7 characters - that's overboard fan fiction IMHO, even in comparison to the idea of giving FE7 units skills.

Wait till we play FE8 first. Maybe it will prove that the lack of skills makes battling more interesting than the randomness of ubiquitous skill procs.

[Espinosa]

SB vs. Nicolas begins!

SB's team

Warrior!Garcia, General!Amelia, Ranger!Neimi, Paladin!Franz, Paladin!Seth

vs.

Nicolas's team!

Wyvern Knight!Vanessa, Sage!Moulder, Mage Knight!Lute, Great Knight!Kyle, Assassin!Colm

(25)

The RNG has decided that SB gets to act first! Choose your character, his/her weapon and target!

Edited January 8, 2014 by Espinosa

[Elieson]

Curses, SB has the team I was working on last night!

Ummm I'm rooting for Nicholas though.

[Nicolas]

Uh, slow team. I'm lucky one.

And what are their classes? Which weapone they have? Normal LA would give me that info. But if this is one of rules of this project, so OK.

[Elieson]

(Mainly because Boulder)

Espi, tell me.

With all of this talk of GBA inclusion (fe6 yeaaa), are we dropping the multiskills meta of fe9?

[Espinosa]

Yeah, I was meaning to reveal the classes at least (keeping the weapons a surprise is a great idea though!):

Warrior!Garcia, General!Amelia, Ranger!Neimi, Paladin!Franz, Paladin!Seth

vs

Wyvern Knight!Vanessa, Sage!Moulder, Mage Knight!Lute, Great Knight!Kyle, Assassin!Colm

And no, there's no problem with playing different games and metas. This isn't the first time we're holding two games at once either (you were taking part last time we did that actually).

[Elieson]

I think we should keep the medium of informed classes in multiclass games. The potentiality pf mounts and skills is why, fmpov.

[charlie_]

Neimi goes for Zanbato on Lute.

[Quintessence]

FE7 skills IMO should go:

Eliwood - Sol because Pal/Knight etc.

Hector - Luna because Gen

Lyn - Astra because she's clearly a SM with bows

Heroes may get Astra or Sol (like FE13), IMO restrict Aether to 9, 10 and 13... and 11/12

Prissy... why not Flare? She's a mag user.

Canas... err, I dunno, Flare/Corona seems redundant when most peep will attempt Luna crtkills. EDIT: or maybe leave Flare to Canas, since at least, it will heal him.

I have an extra question: can a player spend a turn healing? Like spending a turn making Rhys/Mist/Priscy/Natasha/BOULDER use Fortify or such?

EDIT2: NVM, READ THE OP.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Quintessence

[Espinosa]

[spoiler=see teams here]

SB's team

Warrior!Garcia, General!Amelia, Ranger!Neimi, Paladin!Franz, Paladin!Seth

vs.

Nicolas's team!

Wyvern Knight!Vanessa, Sage!Moulder, Mage Knight!Lute, Great Knight!Kyle, Assassin!Colm

Turn 1.

vs

SB's Neimi (Zanbato) attacks Nicolas's Lute (Thunder)!

29 dmg 72% hit 0% crit

(29 22 92)

Lute receives 29/37 damage!

Lute counterattacks!

17 dmg 35% hit 0% crit

(85 98 50)

Lute misses!

Both sides survive the fight.

Stats:

SB

Garcia 59/59

Amelia 49/49

Neimi 40/40

Franz 52/52

Seth 47/47

Nicolas

Vanessa 39/39

Moulder 49/49

Lute 8/37

Kyle 59/59

Colm 49/49

Nicolas acts next!

Edited January 8, 2014 by Espinosa

[Elieson]

Canas at his absolute best has 50 crit.

Considering many units cap luk at 30 and have a decent affinity that includes CEvade (see Thunder, Anima, Wind, and to a lesser extent, ice), Canas will often be facing units whom he has sub-15 crit, if any crit at all. He's not that amazing when his best crits are on common units with lower luck (Prepromoted units mainly, as all tier1 units.have [base+19] luk, therefore cutting his crit in half pretty much without supports being added in.

Edit:

Since Luck+SupportCEvade=CEvade, and Max Luck is 30 for all units;

All Tier1 units reach 30 luck

Everyone prepromo except Vaida, Jaffar, Athos, Renault and Harken reach 25+ luck

I'm pretty sure Jaffar is the only unit with under 20 luck by max lv (17 luk).

All before potentials of up to 25 CEV. Luna fishing isn't as plausible as it may seem to have been.

He still hits like a truck though, 2HKOing well, everyone, as long as he has single A/B support alive (C with Nino/Vaida)

Edited January 8, 2014 by Elieson

[Nicolas]

Vanessa, grab Vidofnir and strike Garcia.

[X-Naut]

Canas's main shtick isn't so much critblicking things as it is taking half health off whatever he attacks/attacks him fairly reliably. Durability will be an issue though, even if he is bulky for a mage...

By the way, I've got a great team in mind for FE8 so I might join in later.

(P.S. Espi why does Moulder have 39 HP his average his 10 higher)

[Elieson]

Yea he hits for 29 up to 34 with ease, cleanly 2HKO'ing even Lowen or Hawkeye with a single C support from Nino/Vaida (or A/B from anyone else in his pool).

My point is, his Luna isn't as broken as it may seem, because he's tanky but not impossible to take down, regardless of concern.

[Espinosa]

[spoiler=see teams here]

SB's team

Warrior!Garcia, General!Amelia, Ranger!Neimi, Paladin!Franz, Paladin!Seth

vs.

Nicolas's team!

Wyvern Knight!Vanessa, Sage!Moulder, Mage Knight!Lute, Great Knight!Kyle, Assassin!Colm

Turn 2.

vs

Nicolas's Vanessa (Vidofnir) attacks SB's Garcia (Swordslayer)!

24 dmg 100% hit 0% crit 20% Pierce

(61 48 27 87)

Garcia receives 24/59 damage!

Garcia counterattacks!

19 dmg 32% hit 0% crit

(68 78 0)

Garcia misses!

Vanessa attacks again!

(19 77 58 65)

Garcia receives 24/59 damage!

Both sides survive the fight.

Stats:

SB

Garcia 11/59

Amelia 49/49

Neimi 40/40

Franz 52/52

Seth 47/47

Nicolas

Vanessa 39/39

Moulder 49/49

Lute 8/37

Kyle 59/59

Colm 49/49

SB acts next!

Edited January 9, 2014 by Espinosa