Confidence

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Those people are why I can't read/hear the word "friendzone" without subconsciously judging whoever wrote/said it, as bad as it is to generalize.

honestly the friend zone is a figment of imagination people use to make themselves feel better about not getting the significant other they pursued. while most relationships are formed within the first month or so of knowing each other there are also a good amount of relationships that are formed after knowing each other for months, even years. is it less likely? yes. but it's still quite possible. i mean hell, it's possible to meet a person that's already dating someone and said person ends up dumping that person for you. and according to most people, meeting someone that's already in a relationship warrants an "instant friendzone"

Edited November 17, 2013 by BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER

[Chen]

The term friendzone should be destroyed forever!

You just want a relationship with a girl? Not considering her own feelings? You can't have a friendship? You just wanna fuck?

[Prims]

the last thing i want is for her to think i'm interested in her because she does look great physically. i wasn't like cold and indifferent, but it did make me feel a little crummy because i know people who comfort me much more than that and it's made me feel really nice. i developed strong feelings of adoration for those people.

if you wanna comfort her then comfort her, if she thinks you're just sucking up to her then it's not the end of the world and at least you tried to do what you thought was right instead of just being dull. if you're more worried about about her opinion of you than anything else then that's a problem right there, although granted escaping that mindset is easier said than done

You just want a relationship with a girl? Not considering her own feelings? You can't have a friendship? You just wanna fuck?

well there's not really an issue with fuckbuddies as long as there's mutual consent, the problem is when people are dishonest about what they want

holy shit rapier exists

Edited November 17, 2013 by Professional PantsWrestler

[Rapier]

The term friendzone should be destroyed forever!

You just want a relationship with a girl? Not considering her own feelings? You can't have a friendship? You just wanna fuck?

Why? Some people really leave others in the friendzone. It just isn't a rule.

also hi prims and holy shit Axie exists

[Esau of Isaac]

The term friendzone should be destroyed forever!

You just want a relationship with a girl? Not considering her own feelings? You can't have a friendship? You just wanna fuck?

I think there is a difference between settling for a friendship when you are simply physically attracted towards somebody and not wanting to associate with someone you are infatuated with who doesn't feel similarly.

I can't speak for the rest of you but if I love someone in a romantic sense and they feel nothing towards me, of course I'll be inclined not to associate with them. Is it odd to not want to bear anguish over trying to maintain a platonic relationship only one is comfortable with?

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

just remember friendships are the basis of relationships. easier said than done but if you try treating someone like a typical friend rather than feeling like you have to watch what you say and act differently you're likelier to succeed.

[Nightmare]

Way to generalize everyone into the same category. Basically, it falls in the "if you have bad thoughts about something, you are a terrible guy". Thoughts and actions aren't the same thing. Same about impulses and desires that are not fulfilled. We can think and rationalize. You could want to get into a girl's pants (and most people do toward their girlfriend, actually), but that doesn't mean it's your only purpose (you could still love her).

As we can't read minds, the only things we can judge are words and actions. That is why it doesn't matter who you are underneath, or what hidden agenda you're pursuing, it's what you do that makes you who you are. That is why thoughts are almost entirely irrelevant as far as social interaction is concerned. If you'd like people to judge you as who you are, then make the internal and the external consistent.

You are, by the way, misunderstanding necktie, but I don't feel like going into that.

[Esau of Isaac]

just remember friendships are the basis of relationships. easier said than done but if you try treating someone like a typical friend rather than feeling like you have to watch what you say and act differently you're likelier to succeed.

Friendships are relationships, they are just non-romantic relationships (generally). The basis of a relationship is a mutual connection that binds the participants together. If the connection isn't mutual the bond isn't strong, and it's not hard to see why it would break. My point is that the notion that one is unfairly selfish by cutting ties over unrequited love is preposterous. I can't seriously believe that everyone here is not at least dimly familiar with the feeling of having affection for someone that does not respond in turn. The existence of the "friend zone" is easy to see, even if how it comes to exist is variable: it is a relationship on one side sustained by the dimmest of hopes, on the other by a most awkward kind of pity.

[Bluedoom]

However cutting all ties just because of unrequited love would seem preposterous a well. One could still have the benefit of the friendship while making an effort to reduce their romantic feelings(which would happen over time).

In any case I think Loki just won the thread with the disliking the self-help books part. Truthully, its impossible to give objective answers to building confidence since that's a journey in itself for everyone.

[Esau of Isaac]

However cutting all ties just because of unrequited love would seem preposterous a well.

Of course. It's not just the unrequited love but everything that comes with it. The awkwardness and embarrassment of trying to sustain a relationship like that is second to none, at least in my personal experiences.

One could still have the benefit of the friendship while making an effort to reduce their romantic feelings(which would happen over time).

Sure, but it also comes with obvious drawbacks. For some people and some relationships it's salvageable. For many it's not.

Also how do you make efforts to reduce romantic feelings?

[Axie]

I can't seriously believe that everyone here is not at least dimly familiar with the feeling of having affection for someone that does not respond in turn.

Of course that exists, but the word "friendzone" is now associated with this:

Having actually romantic feelings (= more than sexual attraction) about someone who doesn't have the same feelings is something way more complicated and nuanced than "the friendzone". The way most guys talk about being "friendzoned" is really just the comic above happening, which is what people are criticizing right now.

holy shit Axie exists

Hi! My existence seems to surprise a lot of people

[Bluedoom]

Actually when people were talking about friendzone I actually thought it was unrequited love. If we're talking about nice guy stuff then I have no idea, I don't see that kind where I live.

To reduce romantic feelings would be to actually have a thought process of acceptance in your mind. Then its like a loop- you know, just like how you 'fake it till you make it' you'd need to feign acceptance till it actually finally hits you, I suppose. Of course, this would be tough and many cannot do that, but I'm one of those people who don't like losing connections for reasons like what you mentioned.

[Rapier]

As we can't read minds, the only things we can judge are words and actions. That is why it doesn't matter who you are underneath, or what hidden agenda you're pursuing, it's what you do that makes you who you are. That is why thoughts are almost entirely irrelevant as far as social interaction is concerned. If you'd like people to judge you as who you are, then make the internal and the external consistent.

You are, by the way, misunderstanding necktie, but I don't feel like going into that.

It's true. What you do is what makes who you are. Hence why, even though you want to get under a girl's pants, that doesn't mean this is the sole motive behind your actions, and that doesn't also mean you'll treat her vulgarly. In fact, most boyfriends have that desire in mind.

Let me rephrase this: People may have thoughts that are considered bad lingering on their minds, but this doesn't mean they'll execute them. Therefore, affirming that someone "wants to get into a girl's pants" does not make him a terrible guy, unless he is actively doing that.

What I didn't agree with on necktie's post was that he was generalizing chilvarous guys as a bunch of hypocrites.

Also, girls should be smarter than that. You can see the difference between an honest guy and a con if you are patient enough. The latter will slip up at some time and the former will demonstrate their intentions clearly.

----

Regarding the friendzone... I've never been in it (at least, yet), so I might be kinda wrong in this, but... Isn't it hard to deal with someone who you love, but doesn't reciprocate your feelings? Is it not painful to see them with someone else, and still hold a solid friendship with them? I believe that the disappointment might weaken the friendship.

[Life]

Regarding the friendzone... I've never been in it (at least, yet), so I might be kinda wrong in this, but... Isn't it hard to deal with someone who you love, but doesn't reciprocate your feelings? Is it not painful to see them with someone else, and still hold a solid friendship with them? I believe that the disappointment might weaken the friendship.

Actually... no.

First of all, we're not talking about real reciprocated love. This is either lust or more likely than not, puppy-dog love.

Next point. Because person x wants person y so badly, x can easily "wait" until y falls into his (lets go with x as male and y as female) arms. No shit that it hurts x to see y with another person (and furthermore happy with said person) but x is so much of a pussy that he believes that y will one day fall into his arms. Most of the time (hell, I'd be hard-pressed to find a case where this doesn't happen), x is also chivalrous to a point where it is sickening. He'll do anything for her except make it known that he has feelings for y simply because he is waiting for y to commit rather than take the plunge himself.

What do we learn from this? X is essentially a cunt for not truly considering y's own feelings. He honestly believes that the universe will not be right until y is with him, irregardless of y's happiness with someone else.

That leaves x with only two methods of escape. Either the fantasy scenario comes to life (unlikely) or he grows a pair and moves on. There's a lot of teen fiction that illustrates this concept really well with the Mortal Instruments series being straight up obvious about it.

Personal experience, brah.

[Esau of Isaac]

Actually... no.

First of all, we're not talking about real reciprocated love. This is either lust or more likely than not, puppy-dog love.

Next point. Because person x wants person y so badly, x can easily "wait" until y falls into his (lets go with x as male and y as female) arms. No shit that it hurts x to see y with another person (and furthermore happy with said person) but x is so much of a pussy that he believes that y will one day fall into his arms. Most of the time (hell, I'd be hard-pressed to find a case where this doesn't happen), x is also chivalrous to a point where it is sickening. He'll do anything for her except make it known that he has feelings for y simply because he is waiting for y to commit rather than take the plunge himself.

What do we learn from this? X is essentially a cunt for not truly considering y's own feelings. He honestly believes that the universe will not be right until y is with him, irregardless of y's happiness with someone else.

That leaves x with only two methods of escape. Either the fantasy scenario comes to life (unlikely) or he grows a pair and moves on. There's a lot of teen fiction that illustrates this concept really well with the Mortal Instruments series being straight up obvious about it.

Personal experience, brah.

I understand what you are explaining, but it doesn't necessarily disagree with what he said. As a personal example, poor source given the topic I admit, I had a friend who I found myself liking quite a bit. We had hung out a lot and I'd asked her out a couple times over a few months. Her replies were something to the effect of "I'm not really looking into dating right now." A short while later she started going out with a mutual friend of ours. At the time I loathed myself, moreso than I usually do, and constantly dwelt on my shortcomings compared to him. They soon became inseparable, and socializing with them in a group became painful. We first met one another less, and then not at all, both because of the exclusivity a serious relationship tends to bring and the incredible awkwardness that existed between us. I realized both that she never liked me beyond pure friendliness and how much of a leech I must have been with unwanted advances. After some time I lost any interest in her and was genuinely happy that they were in a deep relationship. But the embarrassment of my behavior and subsequent failure, and the awkwardness of it all only hardened over time.

As I said, sometimes it's not manipulation but just plain ineptness. It's great that you have the experience and personal skill to avoid this happening, but there are many similar to me that never learned to crawl in a game where everyone needs to hit the ground running.

[Aizenberg]

confidence, something i seriously lack. that's why i was never successful when it came to girls. i wouldn't be able to tell if a girl liked me or not.......

(after a few glasses of wine) ok! theres a girl i like at work and whenever we are working (which is rarely) we do get on well together. she doesn't work that often because she's a casual worker and she has college stuff. but there's one day, about 2 weeks ago where she was working with me on a sunday. she seemed very quiet and not very happy. until the very end of the shift she asked if i was 21, i said i am 20. she then asked if i had i girlfriend and i said not at the moment. then she said how come you don't have a girlfriend after working here for some time and i said i don't know. i didn't really say anything to her after that. that was the last time i got to work with her. wtf does this shit mean? better question, wtf is wrong with me? am i a weirdo who is somewhat of a desperate loner or is she actually into me? im drunk right now

for people who lack confidence. sometimes you need to push yourself and it'll be hard at first, but the result will definitely be more rewarding when you achieve your goal.

edit: ok, i just realised this thread is old, can we not lock this thread please?

Edited February 26, 2014 by Aizenberg

[eclipse]

You're in luck - the topic was JUST on the first page, according to my count. However, replying like this and asking the topic to stay open is NOT how to do it. Instead, make a new topic, and link to the old one.