Unnamed Mafia (anon) - Game Over

[Estelle]

How was my vote on Iketani getting "legitimate suspicion" on anybody, at all? Fluffy I'll grant you but I maintain that I don't think his ED1 means anything.

I assumed you placed high priority on ED1 votes because that was at the top of your post, as well as your main issue with me. Maybe I just suck at context clues.

If you're going to say you can't come up with anything regarding Fluffy/Dragonite then we're at a deadlock I guess. FTR I think Dragonite is scummier on actions because I can't really get over his switch off Grillmaster, saying "yeah you guys have a point I don't have anything on Grillmaster" is essentially admitting he realized the case was bad and just tossed it so people would stop voting him. Fluffy being quick to townread people is iffy but it is more effort put into the game than Dragonite's purposeless null reads. The claim makes me wonder since I believe scum generally don't like to claim vanilla (unless they're experienced and want to abuse this tell) but if it was just because of him being busy then I'm probably overthinking it.

A Dragonite/Fluffy scumteam is unlikely because they'd be intentionally invoking each other as counterwagons after their kill failed on N1. That's totally suicidal because if the killstopper is a Jailkeeper or something then the remaining scum is getting fucked by PoE.

[Estelle]

10 minutes until deadline; announcing intent to hammer in five. I doubt anybody's going to post something interesting in the last 5 minutes but also I mainly just want a flip already.

[charlie_]

20 minutes left.

[Estelle]

Shiki, question. If you're compulsive, who did you target N1? If you claimed this already then I missed it.

[Estelle]

Oh right I forgot the deadline is randomly 10 minutes later.

Announcing intent to hammer in 15 then I GUESS

[Estelle]

Or I could remember there's nighttalk and hammer now.

##Unvote

##Vote: Dragonite (L-0)

[Cú Chulainn]

You're nitpicking at the small points in my case and ignoring why I actually think Shiki is scummy.

Elucidate me. Why do you actually think Shiki is scummy?

I don't see how you can actually fault me for this.

Because it was your opinion that a Townie hunting scum would push hard on that read. Then you proceed not doing it yourself. Using an argument of convenience to vote someone is obviously scummy, since Townies wouldn't invent reasons. It's funny you should mention my vote on Fluffy and then compare it to your vote on Grillmaster: One of those two actually posted before late Day 1, and provided ample opportunity to update your read or assert more strongly why they are scum. HINT: It starts with G and ends in rillmaster.

there's nothing inherently scummy about this waffle

I disagree. With or without a flip, you had a sudden overnight revelation that rather than the scummiest person around, Grillmaster is the Towniest person around. That is significant. That you make the comment that "it's easy to nitpick Grillmaster because he posted a lot of words," essentially discrediting people who have scrutinised Grillmaster. However, an important part of the entire analysis is lacking: You have not once during the course of the game attacked Grillmaster's content beyond the brief stint about him not (immediately) responding to you and calling it a votepark. You have, similarly, not expounded on whether his content is actually Townie or not. Unless you want to argue Scum would never put effort into a game of Mafia.

It's not inherently scummy to change opinions; Townies can do that, too. But when your change of heart is simply based on amount of posts rather than the content, it must be scrutinised.

The "intent" behind them was obvious to me but I guess I need to spell it out.

- Changing reads suddenly. Scum intent: Gain favour with Grillmaster. Further scum intent: Abandoning looking at an unpopular lynch target and giving a good excuse to look elsewhere. Finally: Conference with scumbuddy changes minds.

- Pushing Shiki based on that one post. Scum intent: Attempt to look Townie by having an Original Case.

- Voting Grillmaster but never pushing the case hard. Scum intent: Votepark and get through the day while looking Legit. Supported by not actually pushing on anyone else until Iketani wagon was consolidated.

tl;dr insane techniques a scum

[charlie_]

Phase end, no talking.

[Rain Nijika]

How was my vote on Iketani getting "legitimate suspicion" on anybody, at all? Fluffy I'll grant you but I maintain that I don't think his ED1 means anything.

I'll concede that my suspicions of you weren't well-explained at all in my first post, and I should've made it clear that the Iketani thing wasn't a major point. To clarify, your ED1 on Iketani caught my attention initially, but my biggest issue with you was that I felt you were vote hopping a bit too much. I'll look at your ISO again on N2 to see if my initial suspicions are legitimate, but the Iketani thing wasn't as big of a factor as I apparently made it sound.

I assumed you placed high priority on ED1 votes because that was at the top of your post, as well as your main issue with me. Maybe I just suck at context clues.

I'm just a fan of putting things in chronological order if I can.

If you're going to say you can't come up with anything regarding Fluffy/Dragonite then we're at a deadlock I guess. FTR I think Dragonite is scummier on actions because I can't really get over his switch off Grillmaster, saying "yeah you guys have a point I don't have anything on Grillmaster" is essentially admitting he realized the case was bad and just tossed it so people would stop voting him. Fluffy being quick to townread people is iffy but it is more effort put into the game than Dragonite's purposeless null reads. The claim makes me wonder since I believe scum generally don't like to claim vanilla (unless they're experienced and want to abuse this tell) but if it was just because of him being busy then I'm probably overthinking it.

A Dragonite/Fluffy scumteam is unlikely because they'd be intentionally invoking each other as counterwagons after their kill failed on N1. That's totally suicidal because if the killstopper is a Jailkeeper or something then the remaining scum is getting fucked by PoE.

I do agree that Dragonite dropping Grillmaster the way he did is a really big flag. If I'm not remembering wrong, I think FP just posted more or something to stick out in my mind a bit more. And I see your point about Dragonite/FP scum team, but I'm not completely sold yet because situations go weird and stuff.

Shiki, question. If you're compulsive, who did you target N1? If you claimed this already then I missed it.

My action got randomized. Beethoven got hit with a mafia driver suit. NARS the lazy slacker wasn't even here to submit his night action.

[charlie_]

Dragonite got hit by Ice Beam. rip

Dragonite - Vanilla Townie - Lynched Day 2

It is now Night 2. 24 hours for night actions. Nighttalk is allowed.

[Estelle]

Sigh.

Reinbach/Fluffy scumteam imo. I can not remember a single thing Reinbach has done this game. Maybe sub in Beethoven.

Shiki is probably town because her action can be proven false by a town rolecop and I highly doubt the NARS' buddy would expect Beethoven to be scanned and submit that action for him (in fact Beethoven might even be scum but maybe I'm salty). I did not realize that she disguised the target's role as well their alignment. Also her responses to me just now were better.

[Estelle]

Shiki, what suits can you give out other than Driver? Do you just pick the role name yourself or is there a set?

[Rain Nijika]

Well, I am definitely feeling worse about FP in light of Dragonite's flip. His most recent post, where he switched from Grillmaster to Dragonite, reads like him hopping off a wagon that seemed likely when the day began but quickly became unfavorable to a wagon that was very likely to go through. How quickly he goes from "I'm not sure what to make of Dragonite so I'm not pushing that wagon hard" to "Dragonite is pushing for a mislynch, waffling, and that's scummy" is also very reactionary.

Shiki, what suits can you give out other than Driver? Do you just pick the role name yourself or is there a set?

I pick an alignment and a role for my target to scan as. I'll probably just make my target (Hot Wheels) scan mafia driver over and over again unless that's not allowed or something.

[Cú Chulainn]

Definitely salty. Perhaps we can become better friends by playing a beautiful symphony together. In fact, considering how hard I've ridden Grillmaster as well, maybe both of you will be less salty if we play a symphony.

I'll use the piano. Grillmaster can be the first violin and Insane, you can be second violin. We'll make music that'll make the Lord come down to Earth to sit and listen, for a while. While we're killing Him softly with our song.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

I'll use the piano. Grillmaster can be the first violin and Insane, you can be second violin. We'll make music that'll make the Lord come down to Earth to sit and listen, for a while. While we're killing Him softly with our song.

If you make an attempt on my life, I will be forced to sue you.

[Rain Nijika]

Fluffy Platypus, I see you there. Post something. If you're getting caught up, post something after you're caught up.

Reinbach, who do you have suspicions on now and does Dragonite's flip change anything?

Insane Techniques, why do you think Reinbach is scum aside from not recalling anything he's done?

[Marisa Kirisame]

Well. That wasn't expected. Alright then, back to the drawing board.

I'm fully convinced Grill is scum now. Not sure who his scumbuddy is; after N1, I thought Hot Wheels might end up being this, but now I don't know if that's likely. Only other realistic option I can see is... Reinbach, maybe, but ehhhhhhhhhhh. I think he's more null at this point.

IT, what exactly have I done that makes you think I'm scum? The switch to Dragonite was, at the time, my attempt to prevent a mislynch since, after I'd re-read Dragonite's ISO. I thought that he would flip scum.

Clearly I've fucked up on my reads somewhere. I'll re-read Grill's ISO for a potential buddy, since at this point I'm about 99% positive he's scum.

[Estelle]

Because he's setting up a BP claim.

Seriously though, gut based on the fact that I can't remember anything townie he's done.

I also think everybody else is town, which would make the scum between him/Fluffy/Beethoven.

so yeah i don't actually have a case beyond gut+PoE lmao

[Marisa Kirisame]

Fluffy Platypus, I see you there. Post something. If you're getting caught up, post something after you're caught up.

Yeah, sorry, was writing up and wanted to look back at something. School's been being a bitch to me lately and I've been scarcely been able to post anything of note due to that.

What's your opinion of people outside of myself? Mainly, the three I mentioned in my post as the likeliest scum (Grill, HW & Reinbach), but reads on the others will help get a sense of where you lie.

[Estelle]

IT, what exactly have I done that makes you think I'm scum? The switch to Dragonite was, at the time, my attempt to prevent a mislynch since, after I'd re-read Dragonite's ISO. I thought that he would flip scum.

Not impressed by how easily you developed townreads for neutral reasons on D1, and when I called you out on it you never bothered to expand on your thought process and just went with the flow yesterday. There was a huge drop in effort between your late D1 post and D2 content, as if you just wanted to weather out the day rather than find scum.

[Marisa Kirisame]

Not impressed by how easily you developed townreads for neutral reasons on D1, and when I called you out on it you never bothered to expand on your thought process and just went with the flow yesterday. There was a huge drop in effort between your late D1 post and D2 content, as if you just wanted to weather out the day rather than find scum.

Again, real life issues limited my ability to post content during the last phase. Since I'm off the next couple days, I've got plenty of time to look for scum. I'm still thinking Grill as the likeliest scumspect, but I'm moreso looking into who's his buddy.

[Rain Nijika]

Because he's setting up a BP claim.

Seriously though, gut based on the fact that I can't remember anything townie he's done.

I also think everybody else is town, which would make the scum between him/Fluffy/Beethoven.

so yeah i don't actually have a case beyond gut+PoE lmao

I can't remember anything he's done that's scummy, though, even if his actions aren't exactly screaming obv!town. I'll definitely read his (and everyone else's) posts again in more detail over the night to see if maybe there's anything I initially missed, but right now I just can't see a case on him (or Beethoven).

Yeah, sorry, was writing up and wanted to look back at something. School's been being a bitch to me lately and I've been scarcely been able to post anything of note due to that.

What's your opinion of people outside of myself? Mainly, the three I mentioned in my post as the likeliest scum (Grill, HW & Reinbach), but reads on the others will help get a sense of where you lie.

I'm still not entirely comfortable with Grillmaster, but I'm even less comfortable with you. Unless Grillmaster does something that is just overwhelmingly scummy or he's confirmed scum, I wouldn't lynch him over you. I'm not reading Hot Wheels as scum. Elaborate on why you think he's scum, please, because I don't see it. Reinbach hasn't done anything that jumps out in my mind as "scum", and it's more than just a little too convenient that you choose to bring him up as a scumspect after IT starts to suspect him. Why is Reinbach scummier than, say, Beethoven?

Also, Grillmaster hasn't flipped yet. We don't know if he's actually scum. I mean, if you suspect him and have a case for it then okay, but you can't exactly be looking for his buddy based on associative reads that don't exist. And that's ... pretty scummy.

[Marisa Kirisame]

I'm still not liking how Grill zeroes in on one or two people per phase and seemingly ignores everyone else. Like, has he even gotten any reads left aside from thinking I'm scum? His going after me like that seems like lazy scumhunting more than anything.

Then there's all the rolespec he's been doing; not just on Hot Wheels, but also on NARS pre-sub when he threw up half-assed thoughts on everyone else (namely, everything in about one-to-two lines) in a post that primarily served to say "lol I'm still focusing on only one person; obviously they're scum cuz I'm a genius". All of his content has bugged me so far, and I'm sure that he's scum at this point.

Reinbach could be potentially be posting very little on purpose to avoid scumslip; however, all this really makes me think is that he's likely a mafia newbie. I'm not actually sure if he's scum, I'm merely saying that he could be if Hot Wheels isn't Grill's scumbuddy, because I'm not really finding anyone else scummy at the moment. On a related note, can you clear Hot Wheels as town, or are you just targeting him blindly? I'm still wary of his weird-ass ED1 claim, and the fact that Iketani flipped Miller makes me think even less of it. That's why I'm not liking him as a townie; his ED1 screams pre-emptive fakeclaim IMO.

As for the subject of Beethoven... why bring him up, specifically? Is it just PoE on your end, or are you finding him scummy for some reason? I'm not seeing anything overly scummy from him right now, and honestly, I'm re-reading his ISO now, and I'm still not finding anything to justify anybody's potential beliefs that he's scummy.

[Rain Nijika]

I'm still not liking how Grill zeroes in on one or two people per phase and seemingly ignores everyone else. Like, has he even gotten any reads left aside from thinking I'm scum? His going after me like that seems like lazy scumhunting more than anything.

Then there's all the rolespec he's been doing; not just on Hot Wheels, but also on NARS pre-sub when he threw up half-assed thoughts on everyone else (namely, everything in about one-to-two lines) in a post that primarily served to say "lol I'm still focusing on only one person; obviously they're scum cuz I'm a genius". All of his content has bugged me so far, and I'm sure that he's scum at this point.

Well, this is something you'd have to ask him yourself when he gets online. (I'm also interested in seeing where his reads are now, but yeah.) Still, he's not confirmed scum yet, which is why I see very little value in trying to find his scum buddy when his alignment is still officially unconfirmed.

Reinbach could be potentially be posting very little on purpose to avoid scumslip; however, all this really makes me think is that he's likely a mafia newbie. I'm not actually sure if he's scum, I'm merely saying that he could be if Hot Wheels isn't Grill's scumbuddy, because I'm not really finding anyone else scummy at the moment. On a related note, can you clear Hot Wheels as town, or are you just targeting him blindly? I'm still wary of his weird-ass ED1 claim, and the fact that Iketani flipped Miller makes me think even less of it. That's why I'm not liking him as a townie; his ED1 screams pre-emptive fakeclaim IMO.

I'm not reading Hot Wheels' claim as town or scum, nor do I think it was "weird-ass". Is there any other reason besides miller claim and Iketani flipping miller that bothers you about him? Is his actual content bad?

And no, I can't clear Hot Wheels as town because I have to choose an alignment and role for my target to scan as. I'm targeting Hot Wheels because he claimed miller, so the cop shouldn't be investigating him anyway, and therefore I am not messing up the cop's reports by targeting him.

As for the subject of Beethoven... why bring him up, specifically? Is it just PoE on your end, or are you finding him scummy for some reason? I'm not seeing anything overly scummy from him right now, and honestly, I'm re-reading his ISO now, and I'm still not finding anything to justify anybody's potential beliefs that he's scummy.

I brought up Beethoven as an example, and I'm still reading him as town. Perhaps this is me putting Beethoven and Reinbach in the same tier of how townie or scummy I feel the remaining players are, but I can't help but find it really convenient how you bring up your suspicion on Reinbach right after Insane Techniques says he feels scum is likely to be between you and him. Which is why I asked "why Reinbach as opposed to Beethoven", because as far as I know you said nothing much about either so what do you think about the other?

[Shiki Ryougi]

Popped in to see that I died. Oh well.

Go Town.