FE13 Pairings Rating Thread - Day 1: Frederick/Lissa

[ZemZem]

Anything paired with Lissa is bound to fail during the main game.

What part of 'assume postgame' don't you understand. ;/

[jiodi]

What part of 'assume postgame' don't you understand. ;/

I assume postgame means the jug of ice cream and the giant poo I take in relief after beating the game, right?

>.>

[PKL]

What part of 'assume postgame' don't you understand. ;/

So, we're rating the game we play after we play this one? :P

10/10 Pokemon Y it was awesome

Edited December 5, 2013 by PKL

[ZemZem]

I assume postgame means the jug of ice cream and the giant poo I take in relief after beating the game, right?

>.>

Ooookay then. XP

So, we're rating the game we play after we play this one? :P

10/10 Pokemon Y it was awesome

I have nothing to say to you anymore. :P

[jiodi]

Gen 6 postgame is like, nonexistent. WTB Pokemon Z.

I feel like we need a less straightforward pairing topic, lol.

There are so few pros to this pairing that you covered all of them yourself. Is it pretty standard to make Owain not a sword user?

[Caster]

I thought this would be a pretty good idea.

WHY

Edited December 5, 2013 by Saigyouji Yuyuko

[Phantom037]

Probably Lissa's worst pairing because of the dreaded negative speed mod, and I don't think there are really any other pairings where the mods in general clash so horrifically, 1.5/10 because Freddy has some decent skills.

[Vashiane]

Frederick/Lissa

Pros:

• Luna. Added to his natural Galeforce access and you have a stellar combination right there.
• The Wyvern Rider skill set is extremely useful overall, not to mention the class itself.
• Dual Shields. And Dual Guard+. And Breakers.

Cons:

• That negative speed modifer. Yeah, Owain does not... need a negative speed mod. At all.
• Actually, all of his other modifers are, while positive, all ones or twos. Save Luck. And lol, Luck.
• Just... physical fathers for a son with a magical mother are USUALLY not a good idea. There are exceptions to this, but Frederick!Owain is not one of these.

Yeah, so, Frederick!Owain is comprised of good skills/class set, with NOT so good modifiers.

Hm. All in all, it's very... eh.

Total Score: 4/10

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

I'll give it a four because it makes him decent physically. Also luna.

4/10 (I just said that, didn't I?)

[tuvarkz]

5/10, yet I think Gregor might be better (Armsthrift fanatic over here)

[Randa]

Ill give it a three beacause of Luna and flying. Add that onto a natural Galeforce and he looks pretty decent. Then you look at his stats and they aren't that good.

Also I fell like this is going to become the shipping version of an RTU. So good luck with that.

[Czar_Yoshi]

• The Wyvern Rider skill set is extremely useful overall, not to mention the class itself.

Str+2 and Tantivity are directly outclassed by other skills.

Quick Burn is only remotely useful for Streetpass/skirmishes, and even there is outclassed by Lucky 7.

Deliverer is nice, but doesn't matter if you have staffbots.

Breakers are wrecked by Hawkeye. While there aren't actually that many Secret Apo Swd/Lnc users with Hawkeye, most of the remaining ones either aren't strong enough to do significant damage anyway or have high enough skill that you won't be able to reliable dodge them anyway (especially with that -1 Spd). I suppose you could use Lancebreaker for Anna, but there are better ways of dealing with her.

Griffon Rider is Axelocked and gives +Lck. Derp. If the +mov is extremely important, use Dark Knight instead.

Wyvern Lords, meanwhile, are too slow to use as main combatants, and if you need a +Str/Def Axe/Lnc pairup, use General, who has better Str and Skl (the only stats that matter when paired up).

Back on topic, I give Fred x Lissa 3 out of 10 solely because of Luna. Fred wrecks Owain's Mag and Spd and doesn't give him a single magic using class. He's (barely) useable physically, but why would you try to turn a naturally magical Galeforce/Aggressor child into a physical one when Tomes are so good?

[shadowofchaos]

but why would you try to turn a naturally magical Galeforce/Aggressor child into a physical one when Tomes are so good?

Because weird people like me never promote and/or reclass people out of their original portrait class.

[ZemZem]

Also I fell like this is going to become the shipping version of an RTU. So good luck with that.

Everything will be A-OK. There were a few minor annoyances *coughPKLcough*, but it's going well-enough so far.

[Airship Canon]

Probably Lissa's worst pairing because of the dreaded negative speed mod, and I don't think there are really any other pairings where the mods in general clash so horrifically, 1.5/10 because Freddy has some decent skills.

Kellam!Owain

It exists. And there's an idiot who recommends it.

Negative SPD, and while he gets Luna, he gets a nice Sage overlap, lolthief, lolgeneral. Fred curbstomps Kellam as a father for Owain.

[PKL]

Everything will be A-OK. There were a few minor annoyances *coughPKLcough*, but it's going well-enough so far.

I'm not annoying >:(. But really, this pairing is awful, which is why I was posting like that. Next plz.

[Randa]

Everything will be A-OK. There were a few minor annoyances *coughPKLcough*, but it's going well-enough so far.

Okay but will you be able to do every pairing. Cause that's about a hundred including Avatar.

[ZemZem]

I'm not annoying >:(. But really, this pairing is awful, which is why I was posting like that. Next plz.

I know THAT. :P Patience, my friend.

Okay but will you be able to do every pairing. Cause that's about a hundred including Avatar.

I can manage.

Well, the Avatar's not being included, so... :P

[Vashiane]

Str+2 and Tantivity are directly outclassed by other skills.

Quick Burn is only remotely useful for Streetpass/skirmishes, and even there is outclassed by Lucky 7.

Deliverer is nice, but doesn't matter if you have staffbots.

Breakers are wrecked by Hawkeye. While there aren't actually that many Secret Apo Swd/Lnc users with Hawkeye, most of the remaining ones either aren't strong enough to do significant damage anyway or have high enough skill that you won't be able to reliable dodge them anyway (especially with that -1 Spd). I suppose you could use Lancebreaker for Anna, but there are better ways of dealing with her.

Griffon Rider is Axelocked and gives +Lck. Derp. If the +mov is extremely important, use Dark Knight instead.

Wyvern Lords, meanwhile, are too slow to use as main combatants, and if you need a +Str/Def Axe/Lnc pairup, use General, who has better Str and Skl (the only stats that matter when paired up).

Back on topic, I give Fred x Lissa 3 out of 10 solely because of Luna. Fred wrecks Owain's Mag and Spd and doesn't give him a single magic using class. He's (barely) useable physically, but why would you try to turn a naturally magical Galeforce/Aggressor child into a physical one when Tomes are so good?

Ah, okay. Mind if I counter this?

1. Strength+2 and Tantivy: Of course they are. There's really only four first-tier skills that actually have some worth other than being mere filler: Discipline, Armsthrift, Vantage and Veteran.
2. Quick Burn: The only characters that have both Trickster and Wyvern Lord and therefore CAN pick Lucky Seven over Quick Burn are Lon'qu and the Avatar. For those that don't have Lucky Seven, Quick Burn is QUITE amazing.
3. Deliverer: Deliverer has the very handy pro of not breaking. :)
4. Swordbreaker/Lancebreaker: There's quite more to the postgame than Apotheosis, which can and do have some difficult and hard-hitting enemies. Plus, breaker skills work even if the back unit has them equipped, meaning they're lovely skills to get for support units.
5. Griffon Riders: Only one I don't have a counter for. If only they had swords. ._.
6. Wyvern Lords: Depends on who the particular Wyvern Lord IS. Virion, Lon'qu and Panne are QUITE fast and reliable.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Ah, okay. Mind if I counter this?

1. Strength+2 and Tantivy: Of course they are. There's really only four first-tier skills that actually have some worth other than being mere filler: Discipline, Armsthrift, Vantage and Veteran.
2. Quick Burn: The only characters that have both Trickster and Wyvern Lord and therefore CAN pick Lucky Seven over Quick Burn are Lon'qu and the Avatar. For those that don't have Lucky Seven, Quick Burn is QUITE amazing.
3. Deliverer: Deliverer has the very handy pro of not breaking. :)
4. Swordbreaker/Lancebreaker: There's quite more to the postgame than Apotheosis, which can and do have some difficult and hard-hitting enemies. Plus, breaker skills work even if the back unit has them equipped, meaning they're lovely skills to get for support units.
5. Griffon Riders: Only one I don't have a counter for. If only they had swords. ._.
6. Wyvern Lords: Depends on who the particular Wyvern Lord IS. Virion, Lon'qu and Panne are QUITE fast and reliable.

1. True, unless you absolutely must reach a critical value in some stat.

2. Children. Unless you're making a gimmick team (which I have done) you're probably going to wind up with a few Wyvern/Thief combos. Then again, I suppose you could stack them, at the cost of more breakers...

3. And the not so handy con of taking up a skill slot. For FP it is quite nice, though.

4. For the other postgame challenge maps, I suppose they could have uses (specifically passing Lancebreaker to FP1 Nah to help her survive the Spear Generals, and protecting against Jaffar's Lethality in LB3).

6. For the main game they're very good, but this topic is about the postgame (specifically, Secret Apotheosis) and none of those characters get Galeforce which automatically makes them inferior there.

[shadowofchaos]

6. For the main game they're very good, but this topic is about the postgame (specifically, Secret Apotheosis) and none of those characters get Galeforce which automatically makes them inferior there.

Postgame does not immediately specify "Apotheosis" for the criteria in which to judge them.

Postgame can include the Spotpass chapters, and the other DLC maps. Not all of them are a piece of cake, but they have enough difficulty that even maxed out non-limit breakered children may encounter trouble if they have a sucky skillset.

[Airship Canon]

Postgame does not immediately specify "Apotheosis" for the criteria in which to judge them.

Postgame can include the Spotpass chapters, and the other DLC maps. Not all of them are a piece of cake, but they have enough difficulty that even maxed out non-limit breakered children may encounter trouble if they have a sucky skillset.

True, but it'd be pretty pointless to judge based on anything else, since what does well at the hardest of the contexts is going to do well in easier contexts, provided no changes occur (said as to discredit the stupid "HM bonus" argument-- characters like Harken in FE7 are not the same in different contexts.)

And since we're discussing Postgame, where caps are assumed [and therefore, stats are static], why pass judgment on anything but the highest level [or hardest context, rather]? That's completely pointless.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Airship Canon

[shadowofchaos]

And since we're discussing Postgame, where caps are assumed [and therefore, stats are static], why pass judgment on anything but the highest level [or hardest context, rather]? That's completely pointless.

Because you're basing it on a single criteria where versatility of a unit in other levels is less valued, and raw stats and damage dealing skills are most desired?

In Apotheosis, you have rally bots/staffbots for the average player and you're focused simply on surviving on an "unfair but straightforward playing field". Whereas in Future of Despair where there are restrictions... or even blatant random counters for the green stupid AI units to face... or the specific goals of the challenge pack, it is not always the case. Things such as movement, classes for pair up bonuses are also factored in rather than just "Hey, efficient galeforce killing machines... always use this reclassed pair up partner in this class ONLY for maximum damage."

Besides, eff reclassing. Hipster mode. Original Classes only Final Destination.

Edited December 6, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Junk]

it is fine

[Czar_Yoshi]

Because you're basing it on a single criteria where versatility of a unit in other levels is less valued, and raw stats and damage dealing skills are most desired?

In Apotheosis, you have rally bots/staffbots for the average player and you're focused simply on surviving on an "unfair but straightforward playing field". Whereas in Future of Despair where there are restrictions... or even blatant random counters for the green stupid AI units to face... or the specific goals of the challenge pack, it is not always the case. Things such as movement, classes for pair up bonuses are also factored in rather than just "Hey, efficient galeforce killing machines... always use this reclassed pair up partner in this class ONLY for maximum damage."

Besides, eff reclassing. Hipster mode. Original Classes only Final Destination.

I suppose you have a point. VV Sorcs aren't going to be very good at protecting your allies in LB1, even though they can step on anything willing to attack them.

For that matter, I doubt a single VV Sorc could even save all the Villagers in Paralogue 3 on Lunatic.