Death: Why do we fear it/other questions.

[Randa]

Preface: I am aware that we a topic about this, but it was locked because of necroposting and I would like to revisit this topic. If this violates the rules in anyway mods please lock this thread. Original thread;http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=24791

So in English we've been discussing death and the general consensus is that people fear death. I don't personally fear death, by no stretch of the imagination do I seek it but if it comes for I won't try to hide. However a lot of people said that they are afraid of not knowing what comes after life. Which raises more questions. Mostly about what we truly fear and what people believ is after our time on earth. And my final question is something I've always wondred. What does death feel like? Of course I doubt anbody here could answer that but I would like people to answer the other three questions. Why do we fear death? Do we fear death or the unknown? What comes after life?

Thank you.

[Nobody]

I fear death because I don't think there's anything after it. Not existing anymore scares more than anything else ever could.

BTW, what's your religious belief? I'm interested because it's hard for me to not see death as a very scary thing.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Nobody

[Caster]

I fear death because I don't think there's anything after it. Not existing anymore scares more than anything else ever could.

Pretty much this.

[Randa]

I fear death because I don't think there's anything after it. Not existing anymore scares more than anything else ever could.

BTW, what's your religious belief? I'm interested because it's hard for me to not see death as a very scary thing.

I'm an aethiest and I don't fear not existing. I follow the belief that the universe isnt just space it contains all of time. i believe that somewhere in the universe every second must exist even when it's passed. As such even if I'm not at this point somewhere else in the universe I, at a different time, exist.

[Siegmund]

I dont fear death, since a wise man once told me:

"To the well organized mind, death is but the next great adventure."

-Albus Dumbeldore

[Randa]

I dont fear death, since a wise man once told me:

"To the well organized mind, death is but the next great adventure."

-Albus Dumbeldore

So do you believe that there is something after death? Or that we don't truly die we still exist if only in soul? Based upon the quote.

[Siegmund]

So do you believe that there is something after death? Or that we don't truly die we still exist if only in soul? Based upon the quote.

Both, in a way. Our body dies on earth, but our soul moves on into whatever comes after death. If there wasn't anything afterwards, I think life in the first place would be pointless.

[Ansem]

I don't know about what happens after death, but I don't fear it. Fear of the unknown is stupid.

[Chiki]

I don't know about what happens after death, but I don't fear it. Fear of the unknown is stupid.

We know what happens after death.

And I find it funny that even religious people are pretty scared of dying. It means their faith isn't absolute.

[Junkhead]

I fear death because I don't think there's anything after it. Not existing anymore scares more than anything else ever could.

BTW, what's your religious belief? I'm interested because it's hard for me to not see death as a very scary thing.

I think of this, somewhat. But there's two things I believe and find scary (I don't believe in God, so I don't believe in Heaven/Hell):

- Dying and not existing or feeling anything.

Of course it won't be too bad once it happens, since we'll literally not feel it. It's our finite idea of it that makes it horrifying.

- Dying and staying here in this plane, as a spirit eternally roaming...always there...

Eternity is also incredibly scary, for me.

We know what happens after death.

And I find it funny that even religious people are pretty scared of dying. It means their faith isn't absolute.

It can also mean they are afraid of leaving their loved ones behind to suffer and mourn for them, even if they'll eventually see them in their Paradise.

Anyway, to answer your question:

I don't think many people are scared of death itself as they are of...Dying. Stopping to live, not what may depart them after they do die.

[Phoenix Wright]

We know what happens after death.

And I find it funny that even religious people are pretty scared of dying. It means their faith isn't absolute.

we do, do we?

i fear death because of the possibility that there's nothing else left. i don't claim to know what'll happen, i can say however that i hope death isn't the final experience of life.

[eclipse]

1. The old topic was closed because of the necroposting rule. Thus, reopening it in this manner is perfectly fine~!

2. If you don't have something to contribute, don't post. This applies to one person so far.

[Lord Raven]

I don't know about what happens after death, but I don't fear it. Fear of the unknown is stupid.

You can't just say "fear of the unknown is stupid" without much basis. Why, exactly, is it stupid to fear what you don't know?

[dondon151]

We know what happens after death.

even if we know what happens, it's impossible to contemplate non-existence as a being that exists.

[Chiki]

even if we know what happens, it's impossible to contemplate non-existence as a being that exists.

It's actually very simple. Do you remember what it was like before you were born? It was like nothing. That's what death is like.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Chiki

[Knight]

I fear death because I fear what I cannot predict. I am agnostic because I do not know what it is that drives the universe or if it's driven at all. But the fear of the unknown and death is what drives us to discover, I think if we didn't fear death we would be much less than we are now. The unknown abyss of death is one that cannot be explored and returned from easily, and that is why we fear it.

^Are you sure that is how it is, when was the last time you died?

Edited December 6, 2013 by Knight

[dondon151]

It's actually very simple. Do you remember what it was like before you were born? It was like nothing. That's what death is like.

no, i don't remember, and it's impossible to contemplate non-existence if existence is required to experience it.

this is like me asking "do you remember what it was like to live in 1939? that's what death is like." but you weren't alive in 1939. so my analogy has no value to you. and as far as i know, there is no history book for non-existence like there is for life in 1939.

[Chiki]

no, i don't remember, and it's impossible to contemplate non-existence if existence is required to experience it.

this is like me asking "do you remember what it was like to live in 1939? that's what death is like." but you weren't alive in 1939. so my analogy has no value to you. and as far as i know, there is no history book for non-existence like there is for life in 1939.

You don't need to contemplate it to understand it. For example, I can't count numbers to infinity but I can understand what infinity is. I know what infinity is. I can't comprehend the point at which a red ball becomes a blue wall as someone paints it, but I understand that there is a point at which it changes into a blue ball. Similarly, all we need to understand what happens after death is some idea of the concept, even if we can't comprehend it to the fullest. Hence, we know what happens after death.

And many people who have operations also think that being under anaesthesia is like non-existence.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Chiki

[BK-201]

You don't need to contemplate it to understand it. For example, I can't count numbers to infinity but I can understand what infinity is. I know what infinity is. I can't comprehend the point at which a red ball becomes a blue wall as someone paints it, but I understand that there is a point at which it changes into a blue ball. Similarly, all we need to understand what happens after death is some idea of the concept, even if we can't comprehend it to the fullest. Hence, we know what happens after death.

And many people who have operations also think that being under anaesthesia is like non-existence.

Just because you understand what is the end state doesn't mean you know what it is like which is the entire point of Dondon's post. While you may be able to conceptualize nothing or define it in some terms doesn't mean you know what it is like. You can't ever visualize infinity in the same way you can never fully understand nothingness, anyone claiming to understand how it was like before they were born is being ridiculous because you were nothing and couldn't understand your own nothingness. You don't know anything outside of existence and even if you believe there is a state of non existence, you are unable to visualize it or define it in any meaningful way outside of giving vague answers.

I've been under anesthesia and I can't tell you what it's like outside of being a gap. While you might understand you were in a nothingness at a certain point, you still can't define it in any meaningful way which is why it's scary to people.

[Chiki]

Just because you understand what is the end state doesn't mean you know what it is like

Yes, you do. I know what infinity is like even though I can't contemplate it.

I might not have a complete comprehension of the intricacies of death or infinity, or the point at which a red ball becomes a blue ball as one paints it, or the point at which the ship of Theseus is no longer the ship of Theseus, but that doesn't mean I don't know it. I know perfectly well what infinity is even though I can't comprehend it.

I even brought up the same point dondon brought up when I was in my first year of college, and I just repeated what the professor told me.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Chiki

[BK-201]

Yes, you do. I know what infinity is like even though I can't contemplate it.

I might not have a complete comprehension of the intricacies of death or infinity, or the point at which a red ball becomes a blue ball as one paints it, or the point at which the ship of Theseus is no longer the ship of Theseus, but that doesn't mean I don't know it. I know perfectly well what infinity is even though I can't comprehend it.

I even brought up the same point dondon brought up when I was in my first year of college, and I just repeated what the professor told me.

No, you only have the concept of it. You do not understand it in anything meaningful outside of a mere conceptual understanding of it. It's like a person who only understands gravity in that when he drops something it falls. It's a very tenuous understanding at best that doesn't divulge anything meaningful. In the same way you argued we know the end state of death but you missed the primary argument being that even if you know what the end state is, doesn't mean you know what it is like. The whole point of the argument was even if we accept that nothingness is the end doesn't mean we understand it at all which you've basically conceded. Hence why dondon was saying we don't know what it's like. Even if you know it's nothingness, that doesn't guarantee you have any idea of what nothingness is like.

[Chiki]

You do not understand it in anything meaningful outside of a mere conceptual understanding of it.

Which is enough to explain it. "Mere conceptual." Infinity and non-existence are concepts.

Infinity (symbol: ∞) is an abstract concept describing something without any limit and is relevant in a number of fields, predominantly mathematics and physics.

So apparently having a "merely" conceptual knowledge of concepts is not enough for having knowledge of concepts! That's a little funny you have to admit.

Are you honestly telling me mathematicians don't know what infinity is?

Edited December 6, 2013 by Chiki

[Lord Raven]

They haven't felt infinity, so... They're not saying they don't know what it is. The thing is that nobody's ever felt infinity.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Lord Raven

[BK-201]

Which is enough to explain it. "Mere conceptual." Infinity and non-existence are concepts.

So apparently having a "merely" conceptual knowledge of concepts is not enough for having knowledge of concepts! That's a little funny you have to admit.

Are you honestly telling me mathematicians don't know what infinity is?

They don't know infinity in the literal sense of infinity and thus have labeled it only as something to be a concept because we can never reach an understanding of something that has reached such an end state. It's labeled a concept by definition because we can't give it more meaning due to being unable to comprehend such a state.

Even if the analogy doesn't hold perfectly, the analogy's weaknesses are something germane more to the mathematics of the issue rather than the argument itself. Your criticisms of my depictions of infinity have no bearing on whether or not we can give meaning to the nothingness post death and that's the only argument relevant here, everything else is just an attempt to communicate this.

[dondon151]

Yes, you do. I know what infinity is like even though I can't contemplate it.

I might not have a complete comprehension of the intricacies of death or infinity, or the point at which a red ball becomes a blue ball as one paints it, or the point at which the ship of Theseus is no longer the ship of Theseus, but that doesn't mean I don't know it. I know perfectly well what infinity is even though I can't comprehend it.

I even brought up the same point dondon brought up when I was in my first year of college, and I just repeated what the professor told me.

telling me that i know what non-existence is doesn't assuage my fear of non-existence. fear of non-existence is rooted in having never experienced non-existence.