Third gen Morgan vs. 2 Avatar's children

[Chiki]

Which one is better overall?

Third gen Morgan: provides slightly better stats overall (+1 or 2 each stat) but you don't get a child who has access to every skill (no Galeforce for that child, or other combos).

Second gen Morgan + a child with Avatar as the parent: provides Morgan with slightly worse stats, and another child with access to every skill in the game (including Galeforce, which can be passed down if male).

[HK Motendra]

Morgan gains every class skill accessible to their gender regardless of what gen he/she is. Therefore, they can still get Galeforce, so long as it is passed down to them, but it'll take some proper planning of that (EX: third gen male morgan can gain Galeforce from a GF Inigo). So ya, its kinda obvious who wins if third gen has better stats

[Sasori]

Morgan still slaughters everything if he's a second gen child so in my opinion its best to give the avatar another kid. that way you can have two amazing units, instead of one slightly more amazing one.

[Chiki]

Morgan gains every class skill accessible to their gender regardless of what gen he/she is. Therefore, they can still get Galeforce, so long as it is passed down to them, but it'll take some proper planning of that (EX: third gen male morgan can gain Galeforce from a GF Inigo). So ya, its kinda obvious who wins if third gen has better stats

I don't think you understand. Is it better to have a slightly better Morgan + a significantly worse child vs. a slightly worse Morgan + a significantly better child?

[HK Motendra]

I don't think you understand. Is it better to have a slightly better Morgan + a significantly worse child vs. a slightly worse Morgan + a significantly better child?

Oh...Well then, that changes everything

[Silver Lightning]

2 awesome children are better overall than only one godly child, IMO.

[Thor Odinson]

I feel that a couple more stats on an already OP'd as fuck unit isn't gonna matter much

It's overkill or ...overkill, how exciting

I mean if you really want highest damage evar!!! big numbers!!! you could probably go for a 3rd gen

but is it really warranted in a postgame that doesn't have the content to really warrant that

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Depends

if I am min maxing, "logic" dictates that Third Gen Morgan is better.

If I am not min maxing, screw it. Third Gen Morgan is too much of a hassle to make

[Shadow Mir]

Honestly, I think that marrying a child character is highly impractical. Especially when it doesn't make Morgan THAT much stronger. (Example: Ricken!Noire!Morgan can have up to +10 Mag, but is it all that impressive when a Morgan mothered by Emmeryn only gets one less Mag? No. [Yes, I know, that wasn't the best example])

Edited December 16, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Tables]

Third gen Morgan is better for postgame: You can focus extra points into stats you want while losing out on stats you don't need. This ends up giving you a more refined and optimised Morgan. Despite some people believing otherwise, the extra child doesn't even suffer much as a result - you can still get every child who matters every skill they needs. A big issue with two Morgans though is that Morgan will be unable to marry Lucina, which is usually Morgan's most reliable partner (Dual Strike+/Dual Guard+ Galeforce partner for the best unit is about the best support you can get). Personally I think that's a big blow. While it does let you have a female Morgan and thus an aggressor husband instead, I don't think that's anywhere near as good as 100% Dual Strike.

Second gen Morgan is similarly FAR better for main game (assuming no grinding). Compared to a second gen you need to put off Avatar's S support for a long time and then start building the main support no earlier than after chapter 13 (although you may have perhaps 2-3 side stories left to do) meaning you won't be getting that S support - and thus Morgan - until around chapter 18. Those alone are enough to put me off, but then we also need to look at the fact that the Morgan you get will be no better than a standard Morgan. Well, his bases will be slightly higher since we're recruiting him later, but recruitment time is far more important than that, in my opinion. But otherwise, he'll be pretty bog standard. The only notable advantage he has is that his caps will be a little better, which matters very little (we're talking MAYBE having a couple of extra points in endgame).

Since postgame is, well, postgame and not the main bulk of the game, and the fact it's far easier than maingame, I've voted for two Morgans.

[Nobody]

To be honest, I'd actually say third gen morgan. Lon'qu!Laurent!morgan and Maribelle!Lucina are all I need.

A big issue with two Morgans though is that Morgan will be unable to marry Lucina, which is usually Morgan's most reliable partner (Dual Strike+/Dual Guard+ Galeforce partner for the best unit is about the best support you can get). Personally I think that's a big blow. While it does let you have a female Morgan and thus an aggressor husband instead, I don't think that's anywhere near as good as 100% Dual Strike.

And yeah, this. Morgan + 100% dual strike is awesome. I can't give up on that. Of course, I'm talking about post game. In the main game second-gen morgan is better. I always marry the (F)avatar to chrom and the male avatar to either Sumia or Sully, in those situations.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Nobody

[Chiki]

you can still get every child who matters every skill they needs

You can get an extra Galeforce for one of Kjelle or Nah or Noire, which otherwise would not be possible.

[Djing]

Male Morgan > Female Morgan

Female Morgan is just Cynthia with Ignis.

Male Morgan also means Female Avatar who's better than Male Avatar.

[Sublime Manic]

You can get an extra Galeforce for one of Kjelle or Nah or Noire, which otherwise would not be possible.

Second gen Morgan is a necessity if you want to have Galeforce on as many units as possible.

I think it comes down to a question of if the additional stats a third gen Morgan will have allow third gen Morgan to accomplish something meaningful with those stats that is impossible otherwise in the post game. Are there any significant enemies for which those few extra stat points would make a difference in how you handle them?

If there is something like that, is it also worth more than having another unit with Galeforce and two units with the Avatar as a parent?

I could very well be wrong, but I don't think there's anything the post game throws at you that only a third gen Morgan could handle which a second gen Morgan couldn't, while having the Avatar father two children and maximize the number of units you have with Galeforce would allow for greater flexibility.

So I'd say two children and more Galeforce>third gen Morgan.

[Anacybele]

Like the majority, I say that two amazing Avatar children are better than one. It just sucks that the Female Avatar can only have two kids if she marries Chrom and I hate this pairing. Why couldn't the first gen males have children linked to them too?! I don't care for optimization, but it would've made for a lot of interesting sibling dynamics and stuff.

Well, good thing I'm a fan of creating my own characters. ;P

Edited December 16, 2013 by Anacybele

[Airship Canon]

Let's take an Anyalysis:

First off FeMU.

FeMU only has one option for 2: Chrom.

This locks you out of Morgan/Lucina and has no additional Galeforces [Results in the same amount of Galeforce as going with 2 with MaMU]

Lucina has nothing of note to gain from MU as a Mother, and in fact loses out since she cannot marry Morgan, and marrying a first gen unbalances the second gen S-rank wise. The loss of that pairing is worth more than whatever you give to Lucina.

Now looking at MaMU.

The only "Galeforce" option available without blowing pairs is Nowi. (Going with Tharja is a waste since Gaius, and going with Sully is also a waste since Donnel)

Problem: Nowi is an awful unit. [if she weren't, Nah wouldn't be an issue, now would she] This means MU's S-rank is completely wasted, and the unbalanced second-gen problem kicks in again. This also means that Morgan is forced to deal with Nowi's negative SPD modifier.

Now looking at Deployment Slots:

Chrom, Chrom's Spouse-or-a-backup (in case he married Olivia), Olivia (dancer), two rally bots, two staffbots, MU, MU's spouse. This means only 11 other units are getting deployed anyway.

Cutting Nah is not a loss worth mentioning, when Morgan can benefit from dropping Nah.

For any sense of Postgame, 2nd gen is better.

In game: Marry thine Lord, because that Dual Strike+ is great. Simple.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Airship Canon

[Sunwoo]

I'd rather have two children characters with access to all classes rather than one super Morgan, so I'm going to have to go with Morgan+Avatar's second kid.

Also, unless a player is SPECIFICALLY aiming to have a Morgan with super high caps and stats that are unreachable with second generation Morgan, third generation Morgans are not always going to be better than second generation Morgans just by virtue of being third generation. Not that long ago, I streetpassed a guy who had married Lucina and had the resulting Morgan on his team. I'm pretty sure that Morgan had some caps that were lower than my Miriel!Morgan had.

Giving an additional kid the bonuses that come with having the avatar as a parent seems to be a better option than making one kid who will pretty much always be great even more great, in my opinion.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I could very well be wrong, but I don't think there's anything the post game throws at you that only a third gen Morgan could handle which a second gen Morgan couldn't, while having the Avatar father two children and maximize the number of units you have with Galeforce would allow for greater flexibility.

Although this is a challenge run, look at a No Promote run. When a stat over 30 counts as "good", suddenly that possible +4 Spd from a gen 3 Morgan starts looking very nice. Then, when you look at the boss stats for Lunatic and realize that that +4 Spd makes the difference between doubling Grima with barracks boosts (Lon'qu!Severa!Morgan married to a Barbarian) and not doing so, it becomes the difference between possible and impossible.

Basically, it matters if a) the extra stats from Morgan will allow you to break some major threshold, or b) you're minmaxing enough that you need every child for something and want all of them married. Also worth noting is that gen 3 Morgan usually has worse growths than gen 2 Morgan.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Czar_Yoshi

[Tables]

Also, unless a player is SPECIFICALLY aiming to have a Morgan with super high caps and stats that are unreachable with second generation Morgan, third generation Morgans are not always going to be better than second generation Morgans just by virtue of being third generation. Not that long ago, I streetpassed a guy who had married Lucina and had the resulting Morgan on his team. I'm pretty sure that Morgan had some caps that were lower than my Miriel!Morgan had.

Because of how the cap inheritance works, it's impossible that an X!Y!Morgan will be better in every stat than an X!Morgan - for every possible X - first gen character and Y - all of their possible children. Or in other words, all third gen Morgans will be weaker in some stats than some second gen Morgans. Most 3rd gen Morgans, in fact, only gain around 1-3 total points of cap when you sum up the stats.

The trick therefore is to work out which stats you want to maximise and which you don't mind lowering. For example, losing a few points of Luck is largely inconsequential, but gaining some Magic or Skill can be very valuable. If you just make a random 3rd gen pairing, it'll likely be barely better than a random 2nd gen one.

[Czar_Yoshi]

My Lon'qu!Severa!Morgan has 2/0/8/10/1/-4/-3 mods. That's a pretty good example of customized mods. It's just such a shame that there is no asset that raises both Str and Spd...

[Sunwoo]

Because of how the cap inheritance works, it's impossible that an X!Y!Morgan will be better in every stat than an X!Morgan - for every possible X - first gen character and Y - all of their possible children. Or in other words, all third gen Morgans will be weaker in some stats than some second gen Morgans. Most 3rd gen Morgans, in fact, only gain around 1-3 total points of cap when you sum up the stats.

The trick therefore is to work out which stats you want to maximise and which you don't mind lowering. For example, losing a few points of Luck is largely inconsequential, but gaining some Magic or Skill can be very valuable. If you just make a random 3rd gen pairing, it'll likely be barely better than a random 2nd gen one.

Yeah, that's pretty much the point that I wanted to get across ^^; Unless a player is aiming for a Morgan with super speed, or super strength, or super magic or whatever, the average third generation Morgans in general won't be that much superior if at all to the average second generation Morgan. The Lucina!Morgan in my example, I think she was pretty much around the same caliber as mine. Maybe slightly lower speed in exchange for slightly higher strength, but lower magic than mine, defenses aren't that much better, etc.

[Shadow Mir]

Because of how the cap inheritance works, it's impossible that an X!Y!Morgan will be better in every stat than an X!Morgan - for every possible X - first gen character and Y - all of their possible children. Or in other words, all third gen Morgans will be weaker in some stats than some second gen Morgans. Most 3rd gen Morgans, in fact, only gain around 1-3 total points of cap when you sum up the stats.

The trick therefore is to work out which stats you want to maximise and which you don't mind lowering. For example, losing a few points of Luck is largely inconsequential, but gaining some Magic or Skill can be very valuable. If you just make a random 3rd gen pairing, it'll likely be barely better than a random 2nd gen one.

Honestly, that is why I generally consider marrying a child character impractical - assuming I was going specifically for the highest stats, the difference between an optimised second gen Morgan and an optimised third gen Morgan's just not enough to be worth the hassle, IMHO.

Also, I don't see why skill, of all stats, can be valuable, given that Rally Skill is derided as the least useful rally of all...

[Czar_Yoshi]

Because the most important threshold in the game is 100% Dual Strike and that's dependent on Skl.

[Shadow Mir]

Because the most important threshold in the game is 100% Dual Strike and that's dependent on Skl.

I don't really see 100% Dual Strike as anything special, given that by the time I'm done maxing out my units, my units would likely be hovering around 90%+, and honestly, 100% Dual Strike rate isn't something I would be arsed to go for at all (or, more accurately, I'd not be bothered to keep Dual Strike+ on the characters who can get it; Lucina especially); then again, this is coming from someone who's seen Skill as a joke stat since FE7.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Elieson]

I've done a no Promo/ManaTaguel run (twice, actually). With proper tier 1 skill allocation, it's extremely easy to ramcharge the game. Extremely easy. The hardest part was keeping Chrom alive in Final when I had Morgan doing all the work.

I still haven't even tried the run with Nosferatu (as I view it as a cheap cop-out)

To further it even more, kids beyond Lucina are completely unnecessary. [Keep in mind that I'm referring to Hard mode on both occasions]

Edited December 17, 2013 by The Protown SK