Elieson Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 You still have to get through the force inn front of grima without tier2 skill access. That's not exactly easy, fyi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 You still have to get through the force inn front of grima without tier2 skill access. That's not exactly easy, fyi Not to mention the Grimleal that appear in the top half of the map (especially the ones that spawn to the left and right of Grima himself. And there's also the fact that as Grima has 5 range, he can harass you even while dealing with the aforementioned wall). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) Also remember Chrom and Avatar cannot die. With Chrom in a saddlebag not doing much, he's not offering huge bonuses. Luck caps prevent AT from surpassing 70 realistically even when max'd. Vengeance, ok yea. Face it. You're getting hit. A lot. Snipers exist. Valks exist. You're getting your Yarne!Morgan hurt quite a bit, and you don't have galeforce to charge with. You have 9 move at most as Barb (5+boots+move1+ thief pairup), and you do not want a thiefpairup. You're skillset needs to include skills like Tantivy, Avoid+10, and other avo/hit boosting skills, meaning that even if you dodge some hits, you have minimal skill augments. Do this. Open your Lunatic file, and SS everyone back to Tier1. Then just give it a try. Seriously, Czar. Also, morgan+ sibling is my kinda morgan +edit If you are using taguel/manaketes, then this isnt as challenging of course. triggering Vengeance with about what, 26 skill, give or take, pre bonuses (so 36ish) is a 70 chance to proc. The weapon itself has to still.connect.with his absurd flee And he is on an Ire tile, which grants him 20 flee and 2 def iirc. ++edit Czar sry I.missed the line about your capture card. Are you that confident that you can get past the forged mooks in front of Grima, and take.out Grima, without sustaining craptons of damage? Psychic and Fortify users wont live very long to the Bow Knights and Snipers and shiz Edited December 19, 2013 by The Protown SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Topic: Give me two possible roflstompers over one mega roflstomper, pl0x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) My current plan uses four troubadours for assistance rescuing my pairs to Grima on turn 2. I have a Mage x Mage pair specifically for killing someone in my way (Berserkers have low Res, I'll find one without Aegis+). What I'm currently thinking of is having Severa@Peg fly to Grima's left, not attack (or attack once with Luna and hope it procs) and use Hex/Anathema to help with his Avo. Lucina@Peg can then fly to Grima's right with a Chrom@Lord pairup and attack with a Brave Lance, Aether is nice but what I really want are DS procs. Morgan@Archer can then take Chrom from Lucina and give him two more DS chances with a Brave Bow. Bypassing Pavise+, Chrom should be doing (26+45+3+2)-(50+3)/2 = 11 damage per hit, assuming Ire is +3 Def. It'll take some manipulations to get him to DS with Morgan both times since they can't support, but DS+ makes things more manageable. Now, Yarne's crit: He should have 15(Base +5(Vengeance Axe) +10(A with Morgan/Avatar) +10(Gamble) +10(Solidarity) +5(Zeal) -35 = 20 (25 if I can get someone to stand behind him to give one more support level). While not reliable by any standards, it's high enough that I can manipulate a crit with enough tries. Vengeance will be at 60%. Now, let's see about Yarne's damage. 30(Base) +3(Mods) +9(Avatar pairup) +2 (Str+2 from Panne) +2(Tonic) +16(mt) +1(WRB) +32(Vengeance) = 94 atk. (94-(50+3))/4 = 10. Proc a crit, and that's 30 damage. So far, Grima is eating 44 damage from Chrom and 30 from Yarne, 74 total, leaving 25 to be made up from Lucina and Severa's procs, any damage Morgan does, and my Avatar's DS for Yarne. Close... There are two ways to get that much that I can see. The first would be for Chrom to proc a crit on one of his DSes, he has a 15(Base) +10(Falchion) +10(Solidarity, I'm pretty sure this affects units in the back) = 35 crit, exactly how much Dge Grima has... If only Chrom had one more Skl, it could be manipulated (though it would be very hard). I suppose I can get this from the Barracks, though. The other way is if Morgan/Lucina could somehow double Grima and give Chrom four shots, this is a little more realistic. Olivia!Lucina (Not using Sumia, I want RK Inigo for earlier chapters) has 27(Peg base) +3(Mods) +7(Chrom) +2(Spd+2) +2(Tonic) = 41 Spd. Even Sumia and the Barracks can't get that to 50... +Spd/-Def Lon'qu!Severa!Morgan@Archer has 25(Base) +10(Mods) +5(Chrom) +2(Spd+2) +2(Tonic) = 44 Spd. Add Barracks and that's 48... Argh... So it looks like All+2 makes the difference as to whether Grima can be humanly defeated in this. Shucks. I could probably manipulate a crit of Aether on Lucina, but doubt it would do much (Yarne's crit gives +20, and there's no way Lucina is as strong as Yarne). Oh, there's still Yarne's dad. But I doubt even Vaike!Yarne will give me the power to overcome 25 HP. Edited December 19, 2013 by Czar_Yoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) My current plan uses four troubadours for assistance rescuing my pairs to Grima on turn 2. I have a Mage x Mage pair specifically for killing someone in my way (Berserkers have low Res, I'll find one without Aegis+). What I'm currently thinking of is having Severa@Peg fly to Grima's left, not attack (or attack once with Luna and hope it procs) and use Hex/Anathema to help with his Avo. Lucina@Peg can then fly to Grima's right with a Chrom@Lord pairup and attack with a Brave Lance, Aether is nice but what I really want are DS procs. Morgan@Archer can then take Chrom from Lucina and give him two more DS chances with a Brave Bow. Bypassing Pavise+, Chrom should be doing (26+45+3+2)-(50+3)/2 = 11 damage per hit, assuming Ire is +3 Def. It'll take some manipulations to get him to DS with Morgan both times since they can't support, but DS+ makes things more manageable. Now, Yarne's crit: He should have 15(Base +5(Vengeance Axe) +10(A with Morgan/Avatar) +10(Gamble) +10(Solidarity) +5(Zeal) -35 = 20 (25 if I can get someone to stand behind him to give one more support level). While not reliable by any standards, it's high enough that I can manipulate a crit with enough tries. Vengeance will be at 60%. So, while we're SLIGHTLY on the subject (considering you've pretty much abandoned the original topic)... what *EXACTLY* does your setups in a non-reliable manner help illustrate the difference between Third Generation "super" Morgan vs. Two lesser "Morgans" when you're undergoing a situation that doesn't in any way shape or form prove anything at all other than "you're screwed" with those premises intact in Lunatic Mode? You can problem solve all you want, but even if you were able to finish that chapter rolling your RNGs... how did you even "get there" from the rout missions on Chapter 24 with those hackforged Wyvern Lords with Tier 1 classes that don't have proc skills, rallies, or Limit Breaker? "What the *HELL* does it prove at all" when you're trying to use a super impractical scenario? While I didn't actually expect you to take my statement seriously, since all you're doing is beating a dead horse with your calculations... I'll say it outright: "You missed the point." Because even if you do find some way to get past this hurdle of super stat Gimle/Grima with the problem of damage and survival with the "no promotion" premise... You've done absolutely nothing but waste your time. You require your entire team. Third Gen and Second Gen Morgan difference is COMPLETELY ignored by your scenario. Your calculations and actual execution without purpose has no merit. May I suggest reviewing the "Scientific Method"? I mean I know it's a game and all, but testing your hypothesis with this mess of an experiment... is just bad. That's like losing sight of the original question you were going to answer after designing a test for it in the first place. Edited December 19, 2013 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) So, while we're on the subject... what *EXACTLY* does your setups in a non-reliable manner help illustrate the difference between Third Generation "super" Morgan vs. Two lesser "Morgans" when you're undergoing a situation that doesn't in any way shape or form prove anything at all other than "you're screwed" with those premises intact in Lunatic Mode? You can problem solve all you want, but even if you were able to finish that chapter rolling your RNGs... how did you even "get there" from the rout missions on Chapter 24 with those hackforged Wyvern Lords with Tier 1 classes that don't have proc skills, rallies, or Limit Breaker? Speaking of which, I'd like to see how he'd get past chapter 23 and the clutter of hackforged enemy units. Edited December 19, 2013 by Levant Fortner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuvarkz Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 The only bad thing about 2nd gen morgan is that one of the 2nd gen children ends up unpaired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) Chapter 23? Deploy only Chom@Cavalier and Avatar@Dark Mage, lob mire over the barrier to kill everything I can reach, move Chrom to the right side of the barrier. When I've killed everything I can reach and waited out all the reinforcements, I'll kill Validar with Mire, move Chrom toward his second spawnpoint, on my next turn I'll run Avatar over to him, pair up, have him ferry me over to Validar, switch, reclass to Wyvern Rider/Barbarian, and kill him on EP with a Vengeance crit. I haven't tested this yet btw. Edited December 19, 2013 by Czar_Yoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) I haven't tested this yet btw. Yes, thank you for flaunting around your hypotheses. So again, what is the point of your setups and calculations in the last chapter to illustrate the difference between third gen and second gen? Edited December 19, 2013 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I offered it as an example of where Gen 3 Morgan's stats could make a difference, you pressed it and so I elaborated. If that offends you, don't ask for elaboration- or just say so before chewing someone out. I apologize for derailing the topic and will leave now. Happy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I don't see what you're posting has anything to do with proving the point you're trying to prove, honestly. I just got really confused to the point where I didn't even remember your original point. Also, still sticking with second generation Morgan and sibling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I don't see what you're posting has anything to do with proving the point you're trying to prove, honestly. I just got really confused to the point where I didn't even remember your original point. Also, still sticking with second generation Morgan and sibling. Pretty much. I got lost somewhere on page 2. Morgs and a sibling is awesome. Its why i vastly prefer Male Avatar. Despite Lady Avatar getting the option to bone Virion. Dat A Support with Sibling and creating a fucking cool ass family while kicking lots of ass post-game. I have DLC. Fuck the police, shits getting Limit Breaker'd and amazing in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelonGx Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) BTW, how do you all rate this Morgan? https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYIHAAAEAADCUqFO6ehGGA It seems to be a Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan with FeMU +SPD/-DEF. Edited December 19, 2013 by MelonGx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Sunshine Sprinkles Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Two. One steam roller is not as good as two slightly less potent but nonetheless very poewrfell units. Plus, the whole time travel romance is icky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaZero Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I honestly don't think either one is better or worse than the other and both have their ups and downs. So it really comes down to personal preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribute Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 That was a great read and I hope he actually tries it. But I completely forgot it was about morgan halfway in and though it was just theorycrafting if no promoting lunatic was possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Hey, while you can use Galeforce as a way to argue that FeMU>MaMU; you can't use it in this scenario. First off: A-supports are inferior to S's, and should not be used. [Especially F/F Supports. Those lack Aggressor and are even more inferior.] If you don't get this, you're just bad at comprehension. Calculation: Number of Galeforce Pairs (second Gen only): MaMU+2nd Gen [Lucina in this example (pairings don't exactly matter [MaMU marries a Galeforce girl] and are just an example)] Galeforce Boy Pairings [Double Galeforce] Morgan/Owain Donnel!Kjelle/Brady Severa/Inigo Single Galeforce Pairings MaMU/Lucina Gaius!Noire/Laurent Cynthia/Gerome Irrelevant: Nah/Yarne This results in 6 total Second Gen Galeforce/Agg teams (with 3 double Galeforce/Agg). MaMU+1st Gen: (Nowi) [if MaMu does NOT Marry Nowi/Tharja/Sully, there is no gained Galeforce. If he doesn't marry a Galeforce partner; a Galeforce pair is lost. MaMU/Cherche results in 1 less galeforce pair all around for example, a poor trade to give Gerome all classes, since Vaike/Gregor/Henry already give him everything he needs to do his job well.] [Again exact pairings don't matter; things can be shuffled around for the same results. 1 irrelevant girl, 3 Double Gale, 3 Single Gale.] Galeforce Boy Pairings [Double Galeforce] Morgan/Owain Gaius!Noire/Brady Nah/Inigo Single Galeforce Pairings Severa/Yarne Lucina/Laurent Cynthia/Gerome Irrelevant: Donnel!Kjelle/Unpaired. This results in 6 total Second Gen Galeforce/Agg teams (with 3 double Galeforce/Agg). Ergo, the same amount as MaMU+Second Gen. Gain is nil, and Kjelle is wasted. The main third gen Morgans for MaMU are Lucina or Chrom!Cynthia [Grants Morgan Aether Access (Both have Galeforce)]; Lon'qu!Severa [+10SKL; Severa has Galeforce]; and various Noires. Unless you go for Ricken!Noire!Morgan [because you didn't realize that Maribelle!Lucina!Morgan is a thing], will result in the same amount of S-rank pairs with Galeforce/Agg as going with MU/Nowi. Now, yes, hypothetically, you could go MU/Sumia. This will also result in the same amount of Gale/Agg teams. However, Sumia!Morgan is inferior to say Sumia!Lucina!Morgan. [Care to dispute? I can and will show you math why you're wrong]. Does Cynthia have anything to gain off MaMU that she couldn't get already? Not really, no. [For FeMU we actually get 1 more Gale 1 more double gale, since FeMU has Gale herself and adds a Galeboy. Does Lucina gain from FeMU as a mother? Not exactly, since one of Olivia/Sumia/Maribelle already give her everything she needs.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelonGx Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 (edited) Don't forget that DualStrike+ makes A-support as a common S-support. So: MaMU+1st Gen: (Nowi) Single Galeforce Pairings Severa/Yarne Lucina/Laurent Cynthia/Gerome Irrelevant: Donnel!Kjelle/Unpaired. Lucina/Chrom and Donnel!Kjelle/Laurent may be the best solution of this. Though it makes you unable to use Lucina's DualStrike+ to have a 100% DualStrike pair and remains both pairs above in 9x% DualStrike rate. Edited December 26, 2013 by MelonGx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 But DS+ with an S support is even better and isn't hard to get to 100%, and 90% to 100% is an infinitely bigger difference than 80% to 90%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelonGx Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 But DS+ with an S support is even better and isn't hard to get to 100%, and 90% to 100% is an infinitely bigger difference than 80% to 90%.So a new question comes from my solution:Seven 9x% DualStrikes, or five 9x% + one 100%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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