Sword of Seals HM Casual

Irysa · December 28, 2013

Why can't you instapromote her? You may not want to since her growths are some of the best in the game and she could use faster midgame levelling unpromoted, but she does join at the same level so that's always an option if the extra point of move shaves off a turn or enables a mini-goal achievement.

I'm pretty sure he means you can't just insta-promote her for best results in normal, unlike in hard.

Anyway, NM Miledy's only possible flaw looks to be speed, but 45% growth and maybe a wing, in addition to lower enemy speed, should make it not much of an issue. I wouldn't say she doesn't impress on NM, just that she's not disgustingly broken.

This. I didn't mean you "can't". I meant that instant promoting isn't as good as it is in HM because lol HM Miledy bases, so giving her faster levels in tier 1 makes her into a plenty strong unit, almost assuredly one of your best. Give her a Delphi shield and she'll still practically solo most of Ilia and Sacae.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Irysa

Espinosa · December 28, 2013

This. I didn't mean you "can't". I meant that instant promoting isn't as good as it is in HM because lol HM Miledy bases, so giving her faster levels in tier 1 makes her into a plenty strong unit, almost assuredly one of your best. Give her a Delphi shield and she'll still practically solo most of Ilia and Sacae.

I still don't understand this contrast between NM and HM Miledy (though iirc I'm the one responsible for bringing up the idea that NM Miledy doesn't impress in this thread, but that wasn't quite the same discourse). What's stopping you from using Miledy unpromoted on HM for a while? You'll hardly consider using the Iron Swords anyway, so you could get some good level-ups and then promote (maybe wait until she caps strengths or wait for a specific number of speed level-ups). HM stats can never be too high anyway, as units still die and fall short of one-rounding the opposition plenty of times. It's when we talk about efficient environments that we mention that Miledy is instapromoted and takes a Speedwings, and from there she's good to go for the rest of the game, and the immediate 8-10 (the boots are in the next chapter) move pays off so quickly.

Point is, immediate 8 move pays off quickly in NM, too. It's just the gap between NM Miledy and your trained units is nowhere as wide as it is on efficient HM runs, if one exists in Miledy's favour at all. Hence my "doesn't impress".

It's late here so faulty logic could be somewhere in my arguments that I'm too tired to spot atm.

Irysa · December 28, 2013

NM has weaker enemies. This means overall you aren't in as much immediate demand for powerful units to fight against powerful enemies, so have less immediate reason to promote her and stifle her exp gain and growths. Miledy in NM unpromoted has actually enough bulk and power as it is to be good at base, and her speed is far less of an issue due to slower enemies. Comparatively I'm saying that an unpromoted NM Miledy in NM fares better than an unpromoted HM Miledy (even with bonuses) in HM. She only gets like 2 or 3 speed on average from her HM bonuses, and the AS of enemies (particularly swordies, who she's particularly useful against) went up massively. Promo + Speed Wings puts HM MIledy into doubling range with Killers on the enemy mercenaries on chapter 14, and she has the bulk to not die to anything short of Aircalibur Mages. It's been a while since I did NM but I'm pretty sure unpromoted NM Miledy also doubles basically all cavs at base wheras she doesn't fare so well on HM.

I'm not saying that an immediate promotion is "bad" in NM for Miledy. I just don't see it as nearly as desirable or effective as raising her a little because it's way easier to just get her a few levels before a promotion and she has enough Lance rank at base to use the desirable weapons. Her stats overall suffice. Wheras in HM, I think that not promoting her quickly simply causes you more grief than it's worth since you'd have to rely on generally far weaker fliers and instant promo + speedwing stats are amazing as it is.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Irysa

dondon151 · December 28, 2013

nah NM miledy is clearly worse than even sophia.

I guess toothache and I were mistaken. dondon and I had a bit of a discussion after this quote and it seems to be more based on later recruitment time for the odd targeting of staves

though this is a convenient (and clever) hypothesis, i don't suspect that it's true, either. i've had tate prioritized over miledy before (tate had 10 res and miledy had 6 +7 res). there could be a component that excludes targets if the hit rate is low enough, since the priest in question was casting berserk with only 9 mag.

Edited December 28, 2013 by dondon151

Jedi · December 28, 2013

nah NM miledy is clearly worse than even sophia.

though this is a convenient (and clever) hypothesis, i don't suspect that it's true, either. i've had tate prioritized over miledy before (tate had 10 res and miledy had 6 +7 res). there could be a component that excludes targets if the hit rate is low enough, since the priest in question was casting berserk with only 9 mag.

This is just a mystery that keeps growing. I'll pay attention in my draft and later casual hm run on targeting and get back to you

PKL · December 28, 2013

After feeling a bit awed by Ch11A's map design (in my brain its on par with FE12 maps), I start to remember why I start to dislike FE6 after that chapter. Literally RNG fest. Sleep staves start being common since C12, thats manageable, but Rutger missing twice and the boss missing then him getting critted in EP is dumb as fuck.

dondon151 · December 28, 2013

chapter 11's map design is so haphazard...

PKL · December 28, 2013

chapter 11's map design is so haphazard...

I love it personally. Not neccesarily the map's looks, but the amount of stuff to do in it is pretty cool.

Vorena · December 28, 2013

I wish they would bring back some of the FE4/5 enemy layouts.

Irysa · December 28, 2013

After feeling a bit awed by Ch11A's map design (in my brain its on par with FE12 maps), I start to remember why I start to dislike FE6 after that chapter. Literally RNG fest. Sleep staves start being common since C12, thats manageable, but Rutger missing twice and the boss missing then him getting critted in EP is dumb as fuck.

Are you using Durandal or a Wyrmslayer? S Swords on Rutger or Dieck is highly desirable by Ch12 just for that boss so that you can use Durandal at 90% base hit instead of Wyrmslayer at 70%.

(ps Dieck only has to proc like 2 luck to avoid being crit by Ain wheras Rutger has to proc 4, obviously a better unit wolololo)

Edited December 28, 2013 by Irysa

PKL · December 28, 2013

Are you using Durandal or a Wyrmslayer? S Swords on Rutger or Dieck is highly desirable by Ch12 just for that boss so that you can use Durandal at 90% base hit instead of Wyrmslayer at 70%.

(ps Dieck only has to proc like 2 luck to avoid being crit by Ain wheras Rutger has to proc 4, obviously a better unit wolololo)

Pretty sure Rutger faced 5% crit, so Deke and Rutger would need more procs than that i think. And i completely forgot that durandal was a thing. >_> I'm terrible at fe6.

bottlegnomes · December 28, 2013

Yep. Apparently fire stones give 5 crit.

PKL · December 29, 2013

[spoiler=Chapter 12: The True Enemy]

Let the status staffing commence!

Arcardo?

Where have I heard this before?

Oh, right, all the FEs.

I begin by sniping things down.

Well, more like weakening things for Tate

Not a bad first level.

Ein is ugly as fuck. I thought Bantu looked terrible but this guy...

Raigh stating the obvious then poses as en enemy...by not moving at all.

These guy can't break 1 Hit even with WTA.

First sleep is dodged. Hopefully Echidna keeps it up until I can get rid of the Priest.

Didn't even need an Armorslayer...

Brave Axe is at least useful for taking down walls.

Finally a good level from Saul...

Clarine opens the door and Lugh ORKOs an Armor.

Fir gets her final Tier 1 level.

Longbow enemies suck, so I have Klain bust out the Killer Bow then Lance trades Iron Bow for it to not waste more uses.

I remember that Sniper doesn't attack at all in NM because he has weird AI, but just in case I switch Echidna to a less heavy weapon and then have Sue chip more at the wall.

Lame.

Apparently he does attack, that took down a huge chunk out of her HP.

F yeah!

Echidna never sleeps!

Fir promotes. Those are even better than Rutger promo gains.

Should be very useful for Lugh.

Echidna takes down the wall. Time for me to enjoy killing the Sleep Priest. I do hate them so.

But first, this guy has to die.

DIE!

Jerrot kills the last enemy outside the wall.

Good thing I always have one of these on Lugh.

Whoops! Yeah, that was quite risky and I didn't notice the Archer would attack first. I thought he was safe because the Shamans would attack first and he would not ORKO one of them. Whatever, he survived anyway.

Ouchie. Didn't know this guy moved either. This AI is weird.

Free tome for Sophia I guess...

Building his staff rank with Unlock.

More boom from Rutger.

Sue takes down the Physic Priest too.

Lance gets rid of one of the wall shamans that Lugh didnt kill.

This is how everything looks at the end of the turn.

She's out of range of the Longbow one.

Final Tier 1 Sue level. Another str proc is nice. Quite a nice last level!

Final wall enemy is down.

More unlocking from Saul.

Should definetely come in handy on Rutger/Fir.

I have Lance rescue Fir, drop her, canto back and get healed by Lugh.

Well, she only managed to lure 3 enemies but that's cool.

She also reached B Swords.

So much money.

One of the axers dies to Lugh.

Yeah, she can ORKO with Steel Sword. My Fir is great.

I felt like the team wasn't ready to take this guy down so I just waited.

For Sue!

Sue promotes! Her Defense is so bad, but her offense should be ok and I think my Sue is Res blessed.

Didn't crit :(

So much for feeding him to Tate...

Dayuuum

Managed to feed this guy to her though

Why am I still using you?

The weirdo thief arrives.

3 dodges of this in a row is very nice.

Tate can't double with the Iron lance sadly.

I'd use her more if she had a better staff rank. Saul is barely not in B as it is and she doesn't even have Restore yet...

Tate has very nice sleep avo!

Raigh get. Unfortunately, Sophia is a thing in this playthrough. I would use him so Lugh can have a support partner, but yeah, Sophia. I'll put a poll on whether I should use him and Sophia or not though.

She finishes the Priest and barely doesn't get a level.

NO

Cass get. The conversations between these 2 are actually really cool but you don't get the full convo unless you play it :P

Her stats are definetely not cool. It's even worse if you look at the other page, where it is revealed she has an amazing E in Swords in Chapter freaking 12. Wtf IS?

Getting ready to storm the castle. I had a feeling once I open the door, enemies would come right away from those stairs...

The third whip. This one is for Zeiss!

Weird rescue chain is executed

Sue kills the Sleep Priest that put Tate to sleep earlier.

Wow, what a boss quote!

I lost the first run here because Rutger missed every hit and then the boss was like trollolol I can crit you too and he died.

Epic trade into dance strats.

What?

This guy fails at bossquotes...

NO

Time to seize! Also, I had saul use a Restore on Tate for lulz and staff rank. Maybe not a good idea!

bottlegnomes · December 29, 2013

They should really name him Farquad.

PKL · December 29, 2013

Poll is now up!

aquamarin · December 29, 2013

If it was any other run, I would have voted for neither, since both shamans' attack accuracy is meeeeh. BUT, you CAN'T back out now after saying you will use Sophia, can you?! :P:

Just baby Sophia so she grows big and stronk, forget Ray. As for supports, Sophia has Fae, and you could try to get Miredy/Lugh (that one's unlikely for many obvious reasons though).

Btw, surprisingly, your Saul is only behind on HP. Every other stat is on par with Saul's average stats--rounded down.

Ema Skye · December 29, 2013

I don't like your third option.

You asked people to pick units for you. Someone picked Sophia. You've been using all of the other units that were suggested, so why is Sophia an exception to the rule?

PKL · December 29, 2013

If it was any other run, I would have voted for neither, since both shamans' attack accuracy is meeeeh. BUT, you CAN'T back out now after saying you will use Sophia, can you?!

Just baby Sophia so she grows big and stronk, forget Ray. As for supports, Sophia has Fae, and you could try to get Miredy/Lugh (that one's unlikely for many obvious reasons though).

Btw, surprisingly, your Saul is only behind on HP. Every other stat is on par with Saul's average stats--rounded down.

The last option is a joke option lol. I'm obviously going to use Sophia. And wow, Saul is pretty lame then. His levels have all looked really terrible, but he was average all along!

Nobody · December 30, 2013

Saul is lame, but ellen is even worse =/

The healers in this game kind of suck, talking about mag. Niime is the exception, but she joins so late...

I only like Clarine, because when supported with Rutger (and dieck) she avoids everything and the enemy always try to attack her, so it makes the game extremely easier, if you don't care about turn count (It's actually my way to beat chapter 21 without worrying, I put her in a forest tile, next to Rutger and Dieck while holding a fire tome, and watch all the wyverns suicide on her). Still, she isn't a good healer.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Nobody

Shadow Mir · December 30, 2013

Saul is lame, but ellen is even worse =/

The healers in this game kind of suck, talking about mag. Niime is the exception, but she joins so late...

I only like Clarine, because when supported with Rutger (and dieck) she avoids everything and the enemy always try to attack her, so it makes the game extremely easier, if you don't care about turn count (It's actually my way to beat chapter 21 without worrying, I put her in a forest tile, next to Rutger and Dieck while holding a fire tome, and watch all the wyverns suicide on her). Still, she isn't a good healer.

Funny, then, that this is the game where a healer is needed because status staves will make you cry otherwise.

Nobody · December 30, 2013

Funny, then, that this is the game where a healer is needed because status staves will make you cry otherwise.

Yes, but thankfully Restore doesn't care about MAG.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Nobody

Shadow Mir · December 30, 2013

Yes, but thankfully Restore doesn't care about MAG.

True. But given that staff experience goes up slooooooooowly... good luck getting a Sage or Druid above D rank.

Irysa · December 30, 2013

The last option is a joke option lol. I'm obviously going to use Sophia. And wow, Saul is pretty lame then. His levels have all looked really terrible, but he was average all along!

Saul is lame, but ellen is even worse =/

The healers in this game kind of suck, talking about mag. Niime is the exception, but she joins so late...

I only like Clarine, because when supported with Rutger (and dieck) she avoids everything and the enemy always try to attack her, so it makes the game extremely easier, if you don't care about turn count (It's actually my way to beat chapter 21 without worrying, I put her in a forest tile, next to Rutger and Dieck while holding a fire tome, and watch all the wyverns suicide on her). Still, she isn't a good healer.

Cecilia is good. I'd rank her just under Saul in terms of staffers in this game really. Instant Restore, Barrier, and Hammerne + Mounted with free Wyvern Blicking! But Saul is consistently useful even if he gets screwed just because of how staff range in this game works (Mag/2 +5) and how hard it is to build staff rank. Even with base mag + promo his Physic reach is good (and he is the ONLY unit you're going to be able to Physic with until Niime unless you arena abuse or work hard to get Ellen/Clarine rank up which in turn hurts Saul since his C base means he's the only one who can get to Warp fast enough without abusing...vicious circle.)

I would say you're a bit unlucky on Mag though. 40% can be a deal breaker at any rate depending on how the RNG feels but I find more often than not Saul makes it to 10 mag before i promote him (which is nearly always in chapter 14 or just before it). My current Saul (hey I'm playing Pokemon, I bought a 3ds for Christmas, I'LL GET BACK TO THOSE RUNS EVENTUALLY) is pretty mag blessed though, he's like 4 above his average.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Irysa

Jedi · December 30, 2013

Saul is usually much better then he is doing for PKL, Ellen is solid in terms of stats while her bases are meh her growths are decent enough outside her speed her ranks just hurt

Saul has the instant restore and usually can warp pretty well, Clarines avoid is severely overrated in hm considering she gets one shot by absolutely everything in a game where people complain about RNG despite it being the same system as 7 I am surprised people even say the whole dodge tank deal.

Cecilia while her stats could be better has really good ranks so she ends up being pretty good support even in hm

Your Fir is looking grand PKL

Edited December 30, 2013 by Jedi Fon Fabre

PKL · December 30, 2013

Yeah, Saul at least has a great staff rank...I don't think Elen is good statistically btw. Dat spd is terrible.

[spoiler=Chapter 12x: Thunder Axe]

I didn't go into this one fully blind because I knew there were Antitoxin chests and I'm not deploying thieves at all. Losing chest keys on lame items is not cool.

THE 7 LEGENDARY HEROES! (Roy doesn't count) the other is Athos but he's dead.

Lance weakening stuff for the others. He's constantly like 1 HP short of ORKOs.

Tate uses the Dracoshield, gets danced and kills the guy Lance weakened for a rather Pegasus-y level.

Lame level.

I guess it could be skl only or some other shit though.

Roy gets attacked, that's never a good thing!

Welp, he actually got hit, that's lame!

Take it, I don't mind!

NO! How dare you!...whoever you are!

Not even Iron Bow Sue can double these guys :o. She reaches Murgleis rank.

Fed the thief to Tate.

Hahahaha 1 Hit!

Oh shit, he's in danger now!

She actually hit.

Whoa! First (and likely last) perfect of the run! Good shit Tate!

A lot of enemies die.

This guy is a jerk.

Rutger finished the 2 bandits in that south part thanks to Lalum. Fir ORKOs that jerk.

NO

Why does FE6 Eclipse exist?

Fir missing a ORKO, that's rare!

Even rarer though, are good Roy levels in a row. Remember when Roy was at base spd until Level 5 or so? He's come a long way! Still terrible though.

Lalum finds a free turn to "eat" a Robe

Now that could've hurt a lot. Roy seems to dodge dark magic users a lot!

Oops, Lugh got poisoned. It's fine though. Now that I think about it, maybe deploying Saul would've been a good idea since he could get some heals like forever thanks to Poison walls.