Pirates of the Caribbean Mafia [Everyone loses but j00, Baldrick and Manix]

[eclipse]

Bard Has Help! Votal

Elieson (1): Rapier

Refa (1): scorri

Baldrick (3): j00, Eurykins, Refa (L-1)

Not Voting: Elieson, Baldrick

Lynches happen at 4 votes!

Deadline countdown:

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140112T0030&p0=%3A&msg=Day+2+End&csz=1

(if I screwed this up, it's Bard's fault)

[Refa]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh...

In the interest of not allowing another early hammer,

##Unvote

##Vote: Eurykins

For those who didn't read my last post, this is because some of her reads strike me as forced; in particular, her using my vanilla claim as reason for a strong scumread despite never stating where the scum intent was in that, and complaining about Baldrick's lack of content. Actually I just noticed that her lynch priority has 4 people on it, which means that FHPOV the only townies are her and two other chumos hahahaha.

[Bard]

Holy crap, the amount of deaths and all being scum- what kind of game is this? o_O

A bastard mod game.

I edited the OP to include a "living player list". You're welcome.

[Refa]

[Eurykins]

For those who didn't read my last post, this is because some of her reads strike me as forced; in particular, her using my vanilla claim as reason for a strong scumread despite never stating where the scum intent was in that, and complaining about Baldrick's lack of content. Actually I just noticed that her lynch priority has 4 people on it, which means that FHPOV the only townies are her and two other chumos hahahaha.

To clarify/look back at my post, the reasons I put you so high on the list:

1. Inactivity until the very end of the phase/just recently. (If I'm not mistaken, some people were wanting to vig-shot you due to you not being around?)

2. The randomness/confusion behind the vanilla claim. (Yes, that was one of the reasons)

3. Gut feeling/vibes as a result of people like Shinori died- those of whom were currently taking an interest in you (and Baldrick, for that matter) prior to their untimely deaths. Coincidence? Maybe. But there's still a bad taste about it that I can't disregard.

And,yeah, for my priority list, that's who I'm focusing on currently. As I stated earlier, what worried me the most was that some of the towniest people I thought from D1 were apparently scum, so my entire list is dictating that change, along with what is currently bugging me the most.

[Bard]

@Refa: Please do not post content that plays in my head manually. You have been warned. Do it again on penalty of modkill.

[Refa]

1. Inactivity until the very end of the phase/just recently. (If I'm not mistaken, some people were wanting to vig-shot you due to you not being around?)

Yeah, but the people who wanted me vigged were basically Hitler and the guy who agreed with basically Hitler, and guess what they both flipped as?

It wasn't town!

2. The randomness/confusion behind the vanilla claim. (Yes, that was one of the reasons)

3. Gut feeling/vibes as a result of people like Shinori died- those of whom were currently taking an interest in you (and Baldrick, for that matter) prior to their untimely deaths. Coincidence? Maybe. But there's still a bad taste about it that I can't disregard.

Unless you're suggesting that I managed to kill several players on a single night, then yes it is ultimately a coincidence.

[Eurykins]

Yeah, but the people who wanted me vigged were basically Hitler and the guy who agreed with basically Hitler, and guess what they both flipped as?

It wasn't town!

Unless you're suggesting that I managed to kill several players on a single night, then yes it is ultimately a coincidence.

Lol.

And refuting your second point:

1. It's a bastard game. Who knows what can happen with the roles?

2. If you're scum in any regard, then someone else/multiple people can easily contribute to the deaths- there's no need to work solely alone. Maybe it was a coincidence that kills overlapped as they did, maybe not. We won't know until people start talking and/or flipping.

[Baldrick]

@j00, is your read of me still the same?

@refa, what's wrong with putting extra effort into a read? It's lazy to give up and go with the general opinion without at best doing your best to convince people. Given the time left and the possibilities of lynching someone who was not me I don't think my vote was opportunistic? What part of j00's read do you agree with?

@eury

1. There was barely any discussion time left, and given how it was used earlier in the phase I doubt there was going to be anything significant happening. Shinori should have posted earlier so he can't really complain about being cut off. I was being pragmatic; waiting would have only increased the probability of me being lynched, j00 could go either way, refa was wary of me and who knows what scorri was thinking; only one person on the poly wagon needed to change for me to be a dead man.

3. You thought Shinori was townish? That was his first content post, and it was clear he had skimmed the thread. You need to realise the rules of good mafia play are more of a guideline than actual rules; it is easy for scum to follow them, and say "guys let's have more discussion time!", especially when your (probable) buddy is at L-1.

4. You're one to talk! Though I did not have that much content, what I had clear and solid (the only exceptions was when I was asked to talk about people I was unsure on). Your content was very waffle, and again, you did a fair amount of complaining about inactivity without doing much to combat it.

First you say the deaths are convenient for rapier, then you say they are convenient for refa and I. We can speculate on crazy roles all day long but it's extremely unlikely multiple deaths are down to one person. You look nervous to me, always thinking of the worst-case scenario rather than focusing on what is in the thread and what can be reasonably assumed.

I don't know what to think about elieson, but I do know rapier's case on him is too simple.

##vote: eury

[Baldrick]

@scorri (missed this post somehow) I did notice that, but the only useful explanation is that they denote scum teams, and that would mean three of the same team all died in the same night.

[Eurykins]

@eury

1. There was barely any discussion time left, and given how it was used earlier in the phase I doubt there was going to be anything significant happening. Shinori should have posted earlier so he can't really complain about being cut off. I was being pragmatic; waiting would have only increased the probability of me being lynched, j00 could go either way, refa was wary of me and who knows what scorri was thinking; only one person on the poly wagon needed to change for me to be a dead man.

There was at least an hour left, from what I recall, and since the activity level was picking up (compared to ED1), there was little reason to assume that nothing would happen. In addition, your post came at least 5 minutes after his, which means (so long as you're keeping tabs/watching the thread update itself if/when you were posting), you had more than enough time to hold off on the vote. You either were careless in that aspect, or you chose to ignore his request and hammered anyways. Your reasons for hammering was basically to save your own hide by cutting the discussion time and based on the thoughts that you felt that people were doubting you at that time. If you were town, you'd take the time that was left to convince them that your wagon was clearly mistaken or otherwise the justification was faulty. However, you instead chose to hammer the most convenient wagon at the time in order to protect yourself. That in itself seems horribly scummy to me, and the 'easy way out'.

3. You thought Shinori was townish? That was his first content post, and it was clear he had skimmed the thread. You need to realise the rules of good mafia play are more of a guideline than actual rules; it is easy for scum to follow them, and say "guys let's have more discussion time!", especially when your (probable) buddy is at L-1.

My reasons:

A. Earlier in the phase/day, he posted about an issue with his family members/things getting stolen/etc. and stated that he wasn't going to be able to talk/post much. Therefore his lower activity levels were to be expected.

B. When he posted, he admitted to have skimmed the thread, and that he wanted more time to read into the others/post up more thoughts. In addition, he requested that people NOT hammer as a result, which you chose to blalantly ignore.

C. His reaction to you seemed extremely legit in terms of disdain in what you did; if/when someone requests that a hammer NOT be dropped, it's common courtesy to at least humor them, if only to delay the inevitable lynch anyways. Your action of cutting him/his posting off by quick-hammering to protect yourself was rash and quite frankly really bad; the only saving grace was the fact that Poly flipped scum. If not for that, I'm willing to bet that you would've been insta-lynched come D2.

4. You're one to talk! Though I did not have that much content, what I had clear and solid (the only exceptions was when I was asked to talk about people I was unsure on). Your content was very waffle, and again, you did a fair amount of complaining about inactivity without doing much to combat it.

Quantity: Yes, I was lower than some like Isaac or BBM. However, from the start of my first non-RVS post, I took the time to look into the current wagons, give my thoughts/any reads I had on them at that time, and installed what I saw to be a 'prod vote' to get more information from you. I then give my thoughts regarding the harder Rapier wagon/tunneling that I see occurring in the thread, as well as yielding BBM my thoughts/reasonings behind my other thoughts/reads. And then the snippets of responding to you; and now D2 posts. All of the posting I've done so far has been as clear/concise as was possible. Vague/weaker reads happened with people I was unsure with in terms of gut reads/vibes, but I couldn't help that. I'm not sure where I failed to contribute when I was doing my best to respond and to add to the melting pots of thoughts/opinions/etc. of what was being said and done in-thread (and I was doing/poking where I could to yield new information/responses).

First you say the deaths are convenient for rapier, then you say they are convenient for refa and I. We can speculate on crazy roles all day long but it's extremely unlikely multiple deaths are down to one person. You look nervous to me, always thinking of the worst-case scenario rather than focusing on what is in the thread and what can be reasonably assumed.

Logically speaking, the deaths are convenient for Rapier's wagon, given the main pushers/contributors to it. My concept was that, overall, the cluster of people who died in N1 = pretty damn convenient for a good portion of those of us who are still alive (which I explained). In addition, I even posted earlier to Refa regarding the fact that, yeah, it's very probable that it's not just one person's doing. I HIGHLY doubt that, even in Bard's bastard game, that one person would/could take out all of the people who died in one fell swoop, unless he put in one hell of a broken role. What I considered was the fact that multiple people were functioning in favor of someone (or multiple people's) interests when the night phase happened.

And I'm not sure where/how I seem nervous? My thought process is basically the same in pretty much any game I've played before. I look ahead to see the possibilities of 'what if's'- maybe it's not the best playing style to have (yes, I have been poked at before for it by Prims and others), but they are still my thoughts regarding the situation. By saying it aloud, I'm letting you guys know my thought process and in turn garner the opinion/thoughts/responses/etc to them, because that's how the game progresses. If no one says anything or doesn't do anything, then nothing gets done. Simple as that.

Quite frankly, I found your responses thus far (since late D1) to be really prickly/defensive, and you seem to be going more on the offensive as well (if your response to Shinori was any indication of that). And I'm personally not fond of it, nor am I finding much reason to like it. One of the reasons you're still my highest scum read, amongst what I've already listed/posted about before.

[Baldrick]

Eury, remember One-Shot Mafia? How you took all the time available to try and convince people you were town?

It's easy to say it when your ass is not on the line. When it is, you do what you need to ensure town to do the right thing.

B. If he wasn't finished, why drop a vote? That serves no purpose other than to pressure me into pulling the trigger.

C. Thing is, it wasn't inevitable. You call it rash, but try looking at it from my POV. Me be insta-lynched? but think of all the hours of riveting discussion, lost! Only scum would entertain such an idea!

I'll go into detail on your ISO soon, going out in a bit. Don't hammer while I'm gone!!!!

Yeah, so if the deaths are convenient for most of the game, what conclusions can be drawn from it? How many scum do you think are left?

I know, but it seemed to be getting less common, then it's come back again.

that's just my tsuntsun side You don't have to like it, but why it is scummy?

[Rapier]

Looking at the deaths that happened during N1 and the content from late D1, I don't like the gut feeling I'm getting from Baldrick and Refa currently. In addition, after re-reading a bit, something weird is tugging at my gut regarding Rapier's wagon. The ones who were pretty set on him seemed to be BBM, Miria (now Elieson), and Isaac, two of which who are now dead. Seeing 3 scum dead and no townie deaths following Night 1, and noting the 'bastard' aspect of this game (no idea as to how many scum there actually can and are lurking around), I'm wondering if removing the majority of the voters from D1 wagon was done to keep pressure off of him.

This makes no sense to me. If I was scum, why would I kill both of my scumbuddies because they pressured me on D1? Also, if there are two teams of scum, I don't see how we could kill three scums so easily in one phase. That relies too much on dumb luck. And you're doing far too much speculation about a bastard game.

@Refa

Well I can't see how this is not considered as buddying, because for me it sure is. And she never stated why Manix was so town in her eyes as well.

I've yet to read some stuff from Eury, D1!Refa (wait, was there content from him?) and Baldrick so I'll retain from commenting about them for now.

[Baldrick]

Eury's ISO

1. RVS

2. Null on Rapier. Faulty read on me (the only person to actually respond to my counterpoint later conceded it) and a query. Gut read on Poly. No opinion on j00.

3. Filler. Waffle on Rapier. Post more guys (no prods or anything to spark discussion)

4. Gut on j00, echoed others' thoughts (not that different from what you did in #2 to be frank), keeping vote on me for a response (This is legit vote parking, implication is you have a stronger case than me) stuff about wagons which is nice but not helpful, post more guys, pedit that there is a lot of posts now. (Something to get the scum hunting going, right?)

5. Acknowledge answer to query, follow-up query. Nothing about my counter to the read.

6. Acknowledge answer to query. No update on your read on me. (your whole reason for voting me was to get a response. You got it. Now what?) Nothing about anyone else.

And then phase ended. It was 12 hours after your last post, you couldn't have slept through it.

You had three reads, one flawed and never updated, one for doing much the same thing you did, one on poly that was never updated. You complained about the activity twice, then never looked at a lot of content when it turned up. Despite my vote being a prod and poly apparently the stronger case, you stayed on me the whole phase. And then poly flipped scum.

2 + 2 = 4

[Eurykins]

(1)Eury, remember One-Shot Mafia? How you took all the time available to try and convince people you were town?

It's easy to say it when your ass is not on the line. When it is, you do what you need to ensure town to do the right thing.

(2)B. If he wasn't finished, why drop a vote? That serves no purpose other than to pressure me into pulling the trigger.

C. Thing is, it wasn't inevitable. You call it rash, but try looking at it from my POV. Me be insta-lynched? but think of all the hours of riveting discussion, lost! Only scum would entertain such an idea!

I'll go into detail on your ISO soon, going out in a bit. Don't hammer while I'm gone!!!!

Yeah, so if the deaths are convenient for most of the game, what conclusions can be drawn from it? How many scum do you think are left?

I know, but it seemed to be getting less common, then it's come back again.

that's just my tsuntsun side You don't have to like it, but why it is scummy? (3)

1. Of course I remember One-shot- I was disdained at the fact that, of all of the 'similar' roles floating around (especially the variations of watcher/follower roles that were being claimed), you guys ended up lynching the other jail keeper. It was just stupid, but it's whatevs- what's done is done. However, what differs in this situation is how you chose to act during the end of D1, and your post response that came with it:

You know what? Let's make something happen while it's convenient for me.

##vote:polydeuces

And shinori, read the last part of my post concerning via. For god's sake. I get shit on if I don't post half-baked, I get shit on if I do post half-baked. I cannot win.

Like, it was the same in snoop mafia. We lost overnight because I wasn't there to make town not suck.

You admit it was hella convenient for you, and quite frankly, you were still behind Poly in votes at that point. He was in more danger of being hammered than you were, yet you chose to rush his lynch. In addition, the way you stated the last comment came out to, "Town lost overnight because everyone else but me sucks." or "Without me, town sucks." Same general message- the fact that you took it out of our hands in favor of your own interests isn't working for the sake of town interest, but only to your own, and that just sounds/feels self-centered and a pretty anti-town feeling. Feels more like an ITP or scum wanting to be the last man standing in any regard.

2. B. Even with Shinori's vote, you were still at L-2. Poly was at L-1, for a heck of a lot longer than you ever were (since you never hit that point). Sure, it puts pressure, but how did you possibly take it as a sign to HAMMER THE HIGHEST WAGON? In addition, he mentioned that he saw something else while posting, meaning that, given the opportunity, he could've posted a case/thoughts regarding someone else- and his vote (and/or others) could have easily changed. Your actions, however, prevented anyone, including him, from doing so.This is you panicking/squirming hardcore under pressure, which I'm feeling is pretty damn scummy.

C. Let me clarify then- you would've been probably THE highest suspicion following D2 had Poly flipped town, with the way you hammered him, which would've probably resulted in your lynching today. In addition, it's funny to see you speaking of 'all the hours of riveting discussion' when what you did killed the rest of the time for discussion last day phase. The fact that you hammered scum, again, is your only saving grace.

3. How are your reactions not scummy? You went on the hyper offensive towards Shinori (who in turn lashed out on his own), and your actions, quite frankly, speak much louder than words alone.

Eury's ISO

1. RVS

2. Null on Rapier. Faulty read on me (the only person to actually respond to my counterpoint later conceded it) and a query. Gut read on Poly. No opinion on j00.

3. Filler. Waffle on Rapier. Post more guys (no prods or anything to spark discussion)

4. Gut on j00, echoed others' thoughts (not that different from what you did in #2 to be frank), keeping vote on me for a response (This is legit vote parking, implication is you have a stronger case than me) stuff about wagons which is nice but not helpful, post more guys, pedit that there is a lot of posts now. (Something to get the scum hunting going, right?)

5. Acknowledge answer to query, follow-up query. Nothing about my counter to the read.

6. Acknowledge answer to query. No update on your read on me. (your whole reason for voting me was to get a response. You got it. Now what?) Nothing about anyone else.

And then phase ended. It was 12 hours after your last post, you couldn't have slept through it.

You had three reads, one flawed and never updated, one for doing much the same thing you did, one on poly that was never updated. You complained about the activity twice, then never looked at a lot of content when it turned up. Despite my vote being a prod and poly apparently the stronger case, you stayed on me the whole phase. And then poly flipped scum.

2 + 2 = 4

1. I ran out of time to be online after your last responses. So yes, I did not manage to post after that.

2. The last 2-3 days prior to the deadline, I'd been working on about 2 hours max of sleep per night, and was busy with many family obligations, trying to fix my computer's crashing issues, and favors. As a result, I was zombie-mode and slept completely through the end phase. So in that regard, yes, I actually did sleep through the end-phase.

3. I acknowledged your points, yes. However, re-reading it over and recalling my mentality at that point, I did not feel completely convinced to move my vote onto Poly, especially with how rapidly his wagon was moving (and lo and behold, I was correct in assuming that someone would attempt/actually hammer him if/when his votes put him up to L-1.).

I saw the content firing back and forth, especially when things heated up between you and Isaac. However, as stated above, I was keeping my eyes on those who warranted my attention, I felt, and was working on a terrible/busy schedule as a whole. So, in my case, I probably didn't poke the discussions as much as I could've, which I acknowledge and accept. But I did what I could for my situation, and I contributed to where I felt I could.

**And for the record, obviously 2 + 2 = 22. Can't you see that?

[Baldrick]

the fact that you took it out of our hands in favor of your own interests isn't working for the sake of town interest, but only to your own,

But we have the same interest. I am not screwing you over, but saving you from yourselves.

2. B. Even with Shinori's vote, you were still at L-2. Poly was at L-1, for a heck of a lot longer than you ever were (since you never hit that point). Sure, it puts pressure, but how did you possibly take it as a sign to HAMMER THE HIGHEST WAGON?

"Hi Baldrick, I'm Shinori's vote! As soon as my friend poly's vote gets here, you'll be at L-1. You could wait a bit before hammering, but three of our friends are visiting poly and could easily pop up uninvited at any moment, just like I did! Then you're dead, and we'll all mock you for being stupid enough to play against your win condition by not stopping your lynch when you had the chance! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!"

In addition, he mentioned that he saw something else while posting, meaning that, given the opportunity, he could've posted a case/thoughts regarding someone else- and his vote (and/or others) could have easily changed.

THAT COULD ONLY MEAN TWO THINGS - Poly is hammered anyway, or I die. Should I have let myself die, Eury?

Your actions, however, prevented anyone, including him, from doing so.This is you panicking/squirming hardcore under pressure, which I'm feeling is pretty damn scummy.

No. This is me playing to win.

In addition, it's funny to see you speaking of 'all the hours of riveting discussion' when what you did killed the rest of the time for discussion last day phase.

That... That was the joke. Also, 36+ hours of discussion versus 2 hours. Some people may miss the entire phase!

The fact that you hammered scum, again, is your only saving grace.

Apparently not, since the guy who hammered scum is at L-2.

3. How are your reactions not scummy? You went on the hyper offensive towards Shinori (who in turn lashed out on his own), and your actions, quite frankly, speak much louder than words alone.

Now you are claiming an aggrieved reaction is scummy? I thought Shinori's reaction was townish? You are just grasping at any possible straw.

1. I ran out of time to be online after your last responses. So yes, I did not manage to post after that.

2. The last 2-3 days prior to the deadline, I'd been working on about 2 hours max of sleep per night, and was busy with many family obligations, trying to fix my computer's crashing issues, and favors. As a result, I was zombie-mode and slept completely through the end phase. So in that regard, yes, I actually did sleep through the end-phase.

3. I acknowledged your points, yes. However, re-reading it over and recalling my mentality at that point, I did not feel completely convinced to move my vote onto Poly, especially with how rapidly his wagon was moving (and lo and behold, I was correct in assuming that someone would attempt/actually hammer him if/when his votes put him up to L-1.).

2. We all have real-life obligations. When I join a mafia game, I make sure I am 100% capable of dealing with both it and real life, short of a major tragedy; any less is an insult to the mods and your fellow players. You don't have to be active, just keep up the reading and make sure phase end happens with your vote in the best place. Your vote was on somebody for prodding purposes, they had responded while you were there and you had made no indication it was now a serious vote. That is unacceptable.

3. Yet you were happy with the speed at which my wagon moved? If you are so anti-hammer, you could have unvoted.

So, in my case, I probably didn't poke the discussions as much as I could've, which I acknowledge and accept. But I did what I could for my situation, and I contributed to where I felt I could.

Fine, whatever. But HOW DARE YOU accuse me of not being around much and letting the game stagnate. I am putting my best effort into this game, but if you demand a standard of me I simply cannot meet and call me a lazy, unresponsive flaker the very least you could do is meet that standard yourself.

[Eurykins]

But we have the same interest. I am not screwing you over, but saving you from yourselves.

You make it sound like we're unable to act/think for ourselves. Not sure how I feel about that, tbh, but that's just me.

"Hi Baldrick, I'm Shinori's vote! As soon as my friend poly's vote gets here, you'll be at L-1. You could wait a bit before hammering, but three of our friends are visiting poly and could easily pop up uninvited at any moment, just like I did! Then you're dead, and we'll all mock you for being stupid enough to play against your win condition by not stopping your lynch when you had the chance! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!"

That's... pretty harsh of an assumption, and even if Poly DID move to you in response to his own wagon, both of you would've been at L-1. That means whoever would've tried hammering you in response to Poly being under fire would've been probably seen as the guilty party. Either way, you two would've been in the same boat.

THAT COULD ONLY MEAN TWO THINGS - Poly is hammered anyway, or I die. Should I have let myself die, Eury?

Was that even guaranteed? Shinori and others had also just begun to post at the end of the day phase, so what of their thoughts/reads on people? If you were confident in yourself as being town, then why panic and hammer someone else while basically shouting aloud, "SINCE THIS IS CONVENIENT FOR ME CURRENTLY, LET'S HAMMER AND END ALL DISCUSSION NOW!", which just stops things altogether?

Obviously your own life is worth fighting for, but if anyone else opportunistically

No. This is me playing to win.

One would hope that your goal to win doesn't involve letting everyone else die for you in attempt to keep yourself alive as the sole survivor. Acting as an individual and saving your own hide plays out more as an independent party mentality, as opposed to what's best for us as a whole.

That... That was the joke. Also, 36+ hours of discussion versus 2 hours. Some people may miss the entire phase!

(I figured as much, which is why my response was as it was. Lol)

Apparently not, since the guy who hammered scum is at L-2.

Saving grace = it's the only reason why we're suspecting/having bad vibes, but not completely, flat-out assuming that you're scum right off the bat. If Poly had flipped town, I say at least 90% of those alive in D2 would've agreed that what you did = scummy and completely lynch-worthy.

Now you are claiming an aggrieved reaction is scummy? I thought Shinori's reaction was townish? You are just grasping at any possible straw.

Shinori reacted badly to you in response to you HAMMERING the phase and ending it, along with the side comments you chose to make. However, you were being much more aggressive with your defense than needed towards him and to everyone else in your post, and the overly defensive nature/prickly posting is what drew the line between how I read him and how I read you.

2. We all have real-life obligations. When I join a mafia game, I make sure I am 100% capable of dealing with both it and real life, short of a major tragedy; any less is an insult to the mods and your fellow players. You don't have to be active, just keep up the reading and make sure phase end happens with your vote in the best place. Your vote was on somebody for prodding purposes, they had responded while you were there and you had made no indication it was now a serious vote. That is unacceptable.

I didn't anticipate not being there for phase ending, which is my fault, yes. However, as stated before, I acknowledged your points, but at that point (when I was responding), I felt ill about moving over to Poly's wagon, and my gut feeling from you had not been completely appeased at that point. Thus, my vote stuck to you.

3. Yet you were happy with the speed at which my wagon moved? If you are so anti-hammer, you could have unvoted.

Uh, I was gone for the end of the phase. So I couldn't have commented/argued against your wagon even if I wanted to, more or less unvoted. :/

Fine, whatever. But HOW DARE YOU accuse me of not being around much and letting the game stagnate. I am putting my best effort into this game, but if you demand a standard of me I simply cannot meet and call me a lazy, unresponsive flaker the very least you could do is meet that standard yourself.

I think you misunderstood my comment. I said that IN GENERAL, the game was stagnating. I did not say that YOU were the cause of it, as I myself was active mostly in mid-later D1 (wasn't there super early aside from RVS votes). I'm not accusing you of anything of the sort, and if it came by as such, I apologize for the misunderstanding. And as of what time I could make, I have been putting forth what I can, though as I also said earlier, I know I've lacked somewhat.

[Refa]

Requesting Baldrick and Eury to stop deathtunneling each other and make huge responses. You guys already know my activity level isn't amazing, don't make it worse than it already is!

Also I don't think either of you are going to be accomplishing anything with that besides making each other really mad.

[j00]

it'd be cool if elieson said something and if scorri and rapier came back, I found refa's vanilla claim to be an obvious joke since OP clearly states there are no vanillas and rapier's vote also seems to be based on one single action/statement

I have a bad feeling on scorri since she's done almost nothing this game, but irl issues take precedence

still, even if elieson has disappeared miria had enough content to speak of while scorri has just kept postponing reads and her votes aren't very elaborate, voting refa for a random vanilla claim is still iffy when there's a lot of other weird shit going on

@eury: agreeing with other's logic is fair granted that the logic is correct, the statement I'm talking about was poly saying I was parroting others in voting him when I was among the first to vote him. agreeing with statements that are wrong indicates that you looked at poly's arguments, thought "well that sounds reasonable" and then using it without checking if his statements add up to the thread. by doing this it feels like you're using other people's arguments and reads rather than forming your own

also

Quite frankly, I found your responses thus far (since late D1) to be really prickly/defensive, and you seem to be going more on the offensive as well (if your response to Shinori was any indication of that). And I'm personally not fond of it, nor am I finding much reason to like it. One of the reasons you're still my highest scum read, amongst what I've already listed/posted about before.

being defensive can be read as scummy, but why are you blaming him for being offensive too? if you don't like him being neither defensive nor offensive, how are actually defining scummyness?

baldrick and and eury are the most active ones currently and their tunnel of each other aren't making them look much better, baldrick isn't giving opinions on other players than eurykins and I'd like to hear more of those but currently I find eury's arguments to be worse

gonna

##Unvote

for now, since hammer is at 4 players, we've still got 20 hour left and 3 players have barely explained their votes this phase

right now I'd vote eurykins over baldrick tho

[scorri]

Right, for now I'm content leaving my vote on Refa, largely because of that last post where he tells people to stop arguing but then doesn't try to provide any real reads or thoughts on the argument, just goes "hey guys, i don't want to read walls, stop that."

His vote on Eury is pretty bad as well, based largely on her scum read on him and the fact that she has multiple scum reads.

Moving past that, I'm honestly reading the baldrick/eury as town infighting right now but if baldrick keeps throwing emotion into people's faces, that read may change. Just seen it twice now with Shinori and now Eury and not liking that at all.

Would like to see the promised content from Eli, but kinda the pot calling the kettle black there so, eh.

[eclipse]

I'm Doing More Votals For This Game Than Any Game I Run Votal

Elieson (1): Rapier

Refa (1): scorri

Baldrick (1): Eurykins

Eurykins (2): Refa, Baldrick

Not Voting: Elieson, j00

Lynches happen at 4 votes!

Deadline countdown:

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140112T0030&p0=%3A&msg=Day+2+End&csz=1

(if I screwed this up, it's still Bard's fault)

[Baldrick]

Eury, Refa's right. I think we should death tunnel other people. It's not you, it's me. If there's anything you want me to actually reply to, take it to PM.

@refa alright, you can answer me now.

@j00

I still don't mind you. Maybe I'm just biased because you're saying things I agree with, need to reread.

Refa seems relaxed to me. Though, I think he has been too separate from it, as though he is jotting down notes as an IO rather than playing.

Rapier seemed good to me D1. His D2 has been pretty bad.

scorri and elieson need to lurk moar less

I am aware some of those reads are waffly, but I don't want to get too comfortable with anybody.

[eclipse]

This game is NOC. I'd rather not give Bard any more work!

[Eurykins]

@Baldrick: Yeah, agreed. And again, my apologies if anything I said came off wrong/misunderstood or otherwise rude/out of line.

That being said- let's death tunnel on Refa instead so he has to crank out more posts/content! :D

**In all seriousness**

-Agreed on the Refa point (he contributes a vote, but aside from that + his comment about us not death-tunneling so much, idk.).

- ... Rapier has been gone for a bit, hasn't he? I think he was the first to post in this day phase, but I don't think he's posted since then (and apparently chose to vote for someone who got subbed in?), so I'm not even sure if the vote itself is valid? o_o? But the whole dropping the vote at the start of the phase and then disappearing for the rest of it (thus far) feels weird, especially given how active he was in terms of ED1.

@j00: Oooh, I see what you mean now (mind derped in interpreting your post/reasoning, sorry.).

And what I meant in terms of his defense/offense, was that he was getting too touchy/prickly in his defense, and then (in his own defense) he made some pretty steep/harsh comments as well in asserting himself. It seemed unnecessarily aggressive/hostile, which is why his reactions sat badly with me (along with his actions) and came off as being scummy to me.

[Eurykins]

**Also, I have an Aquarium shift I need to cover tomorrow from 8am-2pm PST, so I should be home about an hour or so before phase ends, so long as traffic isn't terribad on the way home. x_x