FionordeQuester Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) The Avatar got taken over by him. The premonition shows this, and Grima follows Lucina back to the past in Avatar's body. So yeah. Well in the timeline most of the children came from, that is indeed the case. But I was wondering if that was the case for Morgan's timeline as well. Also, on another topic...now that I think about it, I'm not sure I like the Avatar as a female, especially if she doesn't end up married to Chrom. It just gives the whole "we are two halves of the same coin!" thing a really weird vibe if they're already married to other people, you know? Edited January 11, 2014 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berret Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Actually, it's strongly implied that Morgan comes from a different timeline than the other kids, but there are still plotholes with some pairings, most notably Chrom x Avatar and Lissa x Avatar. In Chrom's case, Morgan says in his support with Lucina that she always carried Falchion with her, but he's not supposed to have any memories of anyone except his mother. In Lissa x Avatar, Owain says his father took an arrow for him and that's how he died, but Avatar is stated to have been taken over by Grima in Owain's timeline, not killed, at least not by an arrow. I think the problem with that is the supports don't change at all, they just change the dialog slightly to fit the father's personality. Same with siblings. I was very disappointed when I found that out. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Actually, looking at the script for Chapter 25, and remembering Grima's voice from that cutscene with him and Lucina, it seems like Grima is a dude. A male dragon, if you will. So how would it make sense for him to be a woman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Because MU isn't really Grima himself, but rather, a host of Grima. Something something Validar genetics something something grimleal etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxSpes Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I think the problem with that is the supports don't change at all, they just change the dialog slightly to fit the father's personality. Same with siblings. I was very disappointed when I found that out. :/ Well this is the downside to having so much options as far as support goes. Making a completely new support for each father/sibling would have needed a lot of creativity out of the team. As for the LissaxMU thing, while it doesn't really fix the plot hole, Owain says that MU took an arrow for him and then got separated from him in the chaos. He states he never saw him again and assumed he was dead. Doesn't solve anything really when you consider that the Avatar was with Chrom when he became Grima. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Well Louis had romantic feelings for Claudia in Interview with the Vampire, and Claudia was transformed into vampire at an even younger age than what Nowi looks like (in the book of course)... Though Claudia grew to become a manipulative little brat, while Nowi is still childlike despite her age. Yeah but...vampires. Sounds to me like Louis had a mental problem and was really, REALLY lucky to end up with Claudia, the ONE woman he could've had a healthy relationship with while still not solving said problem. EDIT: Then again, I guess it's not IMPOSSIBLE for that to not be creepy. I mean, even blind people can fall in love with someone while blind, so maybe that's a similar case there? Vampires. Totally different bag of peanuts. Dont know why the Louis/Claudia thing came up, but its actually different than the Nowi situation because vampires are not human. Manaketes definitely have a sense of humanity. They also grow (see Tiki) so theres that. Nowi and the other manaketes just have to deal with the sad part of them outliving their partners. One day, Nowi will look like Tiki (in terms of size and body maturity). Vampires and Manaketes. Two different cans of beans. ANYWAY TOPIC! Virion/Cherche. Do it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuvarkz Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 In respect of Avatar, we do have a minor canon reference: Morgan in FP. Morgan (M) is Sorcerer, Morgan (F) is Wyvern Lord. Now, what mother makes Morgan start as Wyvern Rider and what father makes Morgan start as Dark Mage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 In respect of Avatar, we do have a minor canon reference: Morgan in FP. Morgan (M) is Sorcerer, Morgan (F) is Wyvern Lord. Now, what mother makes Morgan start as Wyvern Rider and what father makes Morgan start as Dark Mage? Wyvern riders and sorcerers are also two very common enemy types in Plegia, which is where the Grimleal are based in. Female Morgan being a wyvern lord doesn't remotely suggest that Cherche is her canon mother, same with male Morgan and Henry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuvarkz Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 All children in FP do appear as promoted versions of their starting classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 All children in FP do appear as promoted versions of their starting classes. Yes, and do keep in mind that all the other children ALWAYS start in the same classes. ALWAYS. Not Morgan. Morgan's portrait is clearly that of a tactician, and she clearly WANTS to be a tactician. This is evident in pretty much every conversation she's part of. But her actual starting class always differs depending on the parent. Morgan's just weird. But you can't take her starting as wyvern lord and him as a sorcerer to say that it "gives the tiniest hint on who Morgan's canon parents are". It means nothing. Like Cherche/Avatar if you will, I like it as well, but there is nothing suggesting it is anything close to canon. Because, again, wyvern lords and sorcerers are very common enemies seen in the campaign against Plegia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) All children in FP do appear as promoted versions of their starting classes. Also keep in mind that Morgan's starting class VARIES according to your MU's marriage. Having canon classes is one thing for promotion choices. It's completely another to go spouting out BS hinting at a "canon" for Cherche x MU. The only canon class for Morgan is tactician ACCORDING TO HER PORTRAIT. You don't see me saying Olivia's canon because she gives Morgan the default starting tactician class without the need to second seal. There is only canon in respect to MU? They cause headaches with any spouse they marry. Especially when fans always want to look for little things to justify their in-game spouse as "canon". Aka what you're doing. Edited January 11, 2014 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Well, I'm making the Avatar male if that helps matters any. And him marrying Tharja is out, since at least with Tharja's other pairings, I can justify Tharja casting hexes on her kids (to be sure they would work when she fought the Risen) and not on her husband (she didn't want him to be physically weakened for when he went out to fight some Risen). I mean, I know Tharja's a bit of a jerk, but it doesn't seem right for her to be THAT big of a jerk, or for her husband not to divorce her for it. By extension, I guess ol' Freddy Bear is going to Cordelia, if Anycybele is absolutely sure that what Cordelia said didn't in any way make Frederick play second fiddle to Chrom... So just to be clear, Morgan may be implied to come from an different timeline than the other kids, but his/her timeline was still clearly lost to Grima, right? Edited January 11, 2014 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I have no idea what to think about Morgan, honestly, and I'm not even sure if ALL Morgans are always from a different timeline. Correct me if I missed something, but is there anything stopping a Morgan who was mothered or fathered by one of the 1st generation men and women who can marry each other normally (Sumia, Maribelle, Miriel, Henry, Libra, Virion, etc.) from being from the same dimension as the other children, especially if Morgan has a sibling? I figured that the "Morgan may be from an alternate timeline" ending was because of the possibility of Morgan being the children of characters who couldn't exist in the original timeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Not really, not that I know of anyways. Morgan's stated to not even have been born before the final fights with Validar and all that, wasn't he? And then Avatar got turned into Grima...the only way I can think of to justify this is that, in this alternate timeline... 1) The Avatar resisted Grima's influence like he did in our timeline, but lost his big fight on the Dragon's back (or simply didn't manage to get that far)...which would also mean that something Morgan did, whether directly or indirectly, was instrumental to them finally defeating Grima, or... 2) He was able to defeat Grima, and live happily with Morgan (hence why Morgan remembers him so clearly). And then Morgan got sucked into our timeline somehow. Edited January 11, 2014 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Kamina Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 By extension, I guess ol' Freddy Bear is going to Cordelia, if Anycybele is absolutely sure that what Cordelia said didn't in any way make Frederick play second fiddle to Chrom... Their S support makes it pretty obvious that Frederick will be second fiddle to Chrom, unlike a lot of her other S rank supports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Their S support makes it pretty obvious that Frederick will be second fiddle to Chrom, unlike a lot of her other S rank supports. On the other hand, it is possible to be attracted to more than one person at a time. Maybe she was just having trouble deciding who to choose before saying "eh, screw Chrom. There's no future with him"? I only say this because... Severa's father makes her do chores and learn discipline, and that's surely very Frederick-like. Of this point Anacybele brought up. But, I guess chores aren't necessarily something only Frederick would assign. Then again, he also seems like the kind of guy who would leave Severa vulnerable to feeling inferior to her mother ("I say young lady, why can't you be more like your dear mother? She was so sophisticated, while you're so...so uncouth!"). Edited January 11, 2014 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Kamina Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) On the other hand, it is possible to be attracted to more than one person at a time. Maybe she was just having trouble deciding who to choose before saying "eh, screw Chrom. There's no future with him"? I only say this because... Of this point Anacybele brought up. But, I guess chores aren't necessarily something only Frederick would assign. Then again, he also seems like the kind of guy who would leave Severa vulnerable to feeling inferior to her mother ("I say young lady, why can't you be more like your dear mother? She was so sophisticated, while you're so...so uncouth!"). But the thing is the way the support goes it sounds like Cordelia has no real interest in Frederick and is just going with him out of a feeling of obligation or something of the like. Also any father can assign chores, and Frederick seems like the kind of guy who in my opinion would be more excepting of his child's personailty and feelings. Edited January 11, 2014 by Kamina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) I guess that's true. Hmm...well, here's the status report so far... Male Avatar is a man, and the pairings are... ChromXSumia GregorXPanne VirionXCherche GaiusXMaribelle Ricken/DonnelXNowi Lon'QuXLissa So...progress! Edited January 11, 2014 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Kamina Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I guess that's true. Hmm...well, here's the status report so far... Male Avatar is a man, and the pairings are... ChromXSumia GregorXPanne VirionXCherche GaiusXMaribelle Ricken/DonnelXNowi Lon'QuXLissa So...progress! Since your going for story rather than stats I'd say maybe StahlxSully? Also for Cordelia if your going for story purposes alone I'd suggest either Vaike, Stahl (if you don't like StahlxSully), Kellam, or the Avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Well, seeing as how Stahl X Sully is literally the ONLY paired ending (besides all of Kellam's) where the first half of it isn't copied and pasted ad nauseum, I guess I just HAVE to go with that one! But...isn't Vaike one of those guys who plays second fiddle to Chrom ("I tried to knock him outta your head, but I don't believe I'm good enough)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Kamina Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Well, seeing as how Stahl X Sully is literally the ONLY paired ending (besides all of Kellam's) where the first half of it isn't copied and pasted ad nauseum, I guess I just HAVE to go with that one! But...isn't Vaike one of those guys who plays second fiddle to Chrom ("I tried to knock him outta your head, but I don't believe I'm good enough)? It's been awhile since I read that support, but if I remember correctly Vaike actually succeded in winning her over, and Cordelia was actually happy when he proposed. If not, whoops. Edited January 11, 2014 by Kamina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 It's been awhile since I read that support, but if I remember correctly Vaike actually succeded in winning her over, and Cordelia was actually happy when he proposed. If not, whoops. Rereading it again, it's kind of ambiguous. "The Cordelia" (as she puts it), feels it's the happiest day of her life when Vaike wants to marry her, but, Vaike isn't totally convinced that she actually got her noggin thinking about someone other than Chrom. Either way, it seemed like she was more focused on Chrom than Vaike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) By extension, I guess ol' Freddy Bear is going to Cordelia, if Anycybele is absolutely sure that what Cordelia said didn't in any way make Frederick play second fiddle to Chrom... On the other hand, it is possible to be attracted to more than one person at a time. Maybe she was just having trouble deciding who to choose before saying "eh, screw Chrom. There's no future with him"? I only say this because... You should also consider the fact that those are two of Ana's favorite characters. There's bias points there, and she's not going to budge on her own interpretation considering it's vague enough to be left to each person's interpretation. ...Though maybe I can clear that up by looking at the Japanese script. ...but I'm too lazy to do that. Edited January 11, 2014 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Hmm...you know what, I think I might have the final pairings nailed down. How about we have... HenryXOlivia LibraXMiriel KellamXCordelia AvatarXSay'Ri/Tiki I liked Kellam and Cordelia mainly because of how sweet it was (absolutely NO mention of Chrom from Cordelia either!), and as it turns out, Libra is actually surprisingly intelligent! It's actually pretty incredible seeing how Libra had no problems whatsoever understanding what Miriel says to him, to the point where he's even pointing out holes in her theories in a logical argument! As for Henry...he may be more than a little creepy, but as it turns out, his paired endings describe him as "a surprisingly good father", and Olivia's son even inherits a physical characteristic (his grin) from him! I...honestly find Henry's character to be a strange mix of funny but kind of uncomfortable, but...it's in a way that doesn't have any malice...if that makes sense. So it just feels good to put him a situation where he gets a chance to show that he's not just a shallow husk of a man, you know? As for Avatar and Say'Ri...eh, why not? She's the only one who doesn't have an option other than him, and just going by their S Support, it seems pretty sweet! EDIT: Or maybe Tiki? Maybe give her a child so that she doesn't spend those long years alone? Edited January 11, 2014 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynstein Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) You should also consider the fact that those are two of Ana's favorite characters. There's bias points there, and she's not going to budge on her own interpretation considering it's vague enough to be left to each person's interpretation. ...Though maybe I can clear that up by looking at the Japanese script. ...but I'm too lazy to do that. Funny to see you say that when Ana's interpretation is the most faithful to the text. The people who believe Cordelia never gets over Chrom in her supports are just wanting to see something that doesn't exist at all. From her S support with Frederick: "I know that Chrom will never love me. ...I think I've always known it. And frankly, I've grown weary of unrequited love. Just the thought of giving it up is like a weight falling from my shoulders. Oh, Frederick, thank you for making me face reality at last! If I promise to love only you, will you make me the happiest woman in the world?" Also... From her event tile with Severa (and Morgan): "Well, I used to be painfully lonely and in love with a man I could not have. I even dreamt of death... But I found another man who sustains me and a daughter I can be proud of. So trust me—no matter how dark things seem, you will always pull through it." Scene with Chrom in the DLC only happens if she's unmarried. There's a whole scene of her with Avatar in DLC if they're married in which she declares her love for the Avatar over and over. And, finally, the generic event tiles with her husband. The writers went very far in telling that Cordelia loves her husband when she's married. Even Frederick. She still has the special event tiles with Chrom, as well as the level up quotes, supports in which she's seeking Chrom's love, but really, would they bother doing two sets of supports for what's essentially a secondary character? I think not. I actually think her supports with Frederick and Lon'qu up to A are great because, when you erase their S support, the other supports have an entire different meaning. This was skillful writing IMO. Edited January 11, 2014 by Malebolganone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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