Inception Mafia

[MRDRHAWK]

Okay I have other means of laptoppin' atm so yeah, reasoning time.

Town Reads:

SB: Probably my strongest townread ATM. None of his posts feel like they have any scummy bits in them IMO, and generally his arguments have been pretty strong up to now. Not much to go into here, because I don't think he's scum. Like, by any means.

Via: The D1 stuff reads more like frustrated town looking back, and nothing really scummy has come from any posts after. I also feel like if Via was scum with a town!Manix in the game, then Manix would've caught on to Via's meta beforehand and pushed a Via lynch early instead of the defense he mounted instead. Via does seem a little bit jumpy and all over the place with the reads right now, but one thing that needs to be kept in mind... it's Via. I'm pretty sure that sort of thing is normal, and therefore I'm not going to bug about it.

Refa: I don't see the reasoning for people thinking he may be scum. Like, at all. He's been having problems getting on much as others do (which is fine), and what I have seen of him doesn't read like scum!Refa should.

Boron: The scumhunting feels legit, and content levels have picked up big time since the sub-out. Not much more to say here.

Null Reads:

Kirsche: Semi-inactive, but of the content I've seen, nothing is feeling too bad; at least not enough for me to want to lynch him today or anytime soon. Leaning more towards town than scum on Kirsche atm, but I may be overlooking him. Eh, idk.

j00: Activity, woo. Honestly, I'm jumping all over the place here. On the one hand, I see the scumhunting as legit enough and the reasoning is sound, but... something feels off. Maybe I'm just weird, but... I don't know. Could go either way here.

Rein: Ehhhhhhhhhhh. The ED1 stuff is bad and the current vote on me feels like "eh I'll push an inactive lynch cuz wynaut", especially since more people are thinking he's worth lynching, so it feels a bit opportunistic at this point. Plus, his last post of D2 notes that he wanted to try my claim, then votes me today for basically being inactive. Could just be town misreading town because the misread town is lazy/inactive, but meh. I'd consolidate here if need be.

Scum Reads:

Grass: Dropping suspicions without reason is kinda bad, especially when you spend essentially all of D2 pushing it. The read on Kay basically amounted to "lol inactive" when he made it, but notes that he agrees with Kay - someone who he's calling out for low/bad content levels - for saying the "fearmongering arguments" are bad (which they kind of are, but it still looks odd especially since both of you are parroting j00).

Kay: Feel like she's jumping around everywhere when she's posting, looking for easy-to-push mislynches by either targeting inactives or wanting to make people look scummier then they actually are. Also, the reasoning for dropping Refa was bad; I mean, what in the hell kind of logic is "lol no way scum can slip that bad with a voteswitch like that, he must be town", anyways? And just where did that Rein vote come from shortly thereafter, since I see no reasoning for it beforehand? I understand the general lack of content is because you're busy, but that doesn't excuse the play I've seen thus far.

Strege: Okay, well, let's start with the kill and subsequent vig claim. The claimed kill on Furet - who Strege claimed to be reading town, and whom he only claimed to kill to avoid scum voteparking, which is fuckmothering dumb in of itself - is bad enough, but then I did some thinking setup-wise. Objection claimed and then flipped Janitor after N1, meaning that in order for Strege's kill claim to be legit, he'd either have to be scum making a blatant fakeclaim or a second town vig, the latter of which seems highly unlikely. In addition, the lack of reads is something he's called a few people out on, but aside from addressing the major wagons at the time, hasn't really given many reads himself, which makes him look somewhat hypocritical and therefore out-and-out bad.

Lynch priority is Strege > Kay > Grass > Rein (if consolidation is needed, otherwise I'd wait until D4 at the earliest). I wouldn't lynch anybody else until associative flips occurred.

[Strege]

Poly, I wasn't townreading Parr. Also, I helped to build these wagons? Like, I've been scumreading Kay and Rein for a while now and voted both of them last phase. I don't understand how I could be read as just jumping on their wagons when the other two votes on Rein right now are so thinly explained.

And yeah I kind of claimed second town vig like a week ago. Setupspec is usually so reliable though. ;/

[Strege]

I'm actually confused about this; if I had shot someone who was legit inactive, like Rapier-level inactive, would that have been bad? People seem to be arguing like anything but my biggest scum read was a bad shot.

[j00]

@strege: people are arguing because rein, who you are scumreading, was even more inactive than furet yet you chose the less inactive lesser scumread.

i personally don't mind vigging inactives but i'd chose the one i'd find scummiest of them, i understand people taking issues with this

i think poly was busy D1 but i thought he was back D2, how did you miss strege claiming second town vig? the whole reason why he shot objection was because it worked as a cc.

besides that, some of your scumreads are vague, and you use stuff like grassbridger agreeing with kay on something as a scummy point when grass was scumreading kay - scumreading people doesn't mean you have to disagree with them on everything

[euklyd]

So, current scumreads are Kay and Quote.

Kay is posting about as much as she normally does, I think, but with less content/cases? Not sure about that. Regardless that Rein vote was really weird (search Kay's ISO; she's mentioned Rein all of one time some days previously).

Quote for the same reasons I said earlier.

I'm really not sure what to think about Strege. I mean, on the one hand, if I were a scum with an extra shot, then I'd probably play pretty similarly (shoot Objection because Vigs are bad for scum, when Objection flips not-vig, then claim Vig, and the shot looks justified; then a Furet kill is on the edge of what can be justified). So like, I can see scum intent here, but it's a bit graspy...

On the other hand I really don't want to lynch a Vig, and I'm not really seeing his content as scummy.

cut here by Strege - actually no, this

Poly, I wasn't townreading Parr. Also, I helped to build these wagons? Like, I've been scumreading Kay and Rein for a while now and voted both of them last phase. I don't understand how I could be read as just jumping on their wagons when the other two votes on Rein right now are so thinly explained.

And yeah I kind of claimed second town vig like a week ago. Setupspec is usually so reliable though. ;/

is weird. Why would you NOT shoot a top scumread? One you had voted for?

cut again

I'm actually confused about this; if I had shot someone who was legit inactive, like Rapier-level inactive, would that have been bad? People seem to be arguing like anything but my biggest scum read was a bad shot.

Yes absolutely. If you have people you think are scummy, then you shoot them. If you don't have a good idea on who to shoot, then you shoot inactives. Dead actives result in associative reads, dead inactives don't.

But nevertheless I'm still not a huge fan of lynching a possible Vig...

I don't really have thoughts about Refa's voteswitch; it reads like consolidation to me. If Kay flips scum, then he might be scummier, but right now I read it as more nullish.

for now though ##vote: Kay

That Rein vote was weird.

[charlie_]

Something about this game is really demotivating.

honestly the only thing that bugs me about strege is due to the nature of this game, roles that are really scummy are the town roles because we're technically mafia in flavor and strege claimed a role that's usually confirmed town by nature and that bugs me because what IF he is town, as in undercover cop, based on his role? but that seems kinda obvious to put in the setup so aaaa and I don't like setupspeccing but it makes me very paranoid

i saw compulsive vig as a link to sk so that's kinda a scummy role still

Either way I really don't see Strege as scum since we've seen a total of one protective role flip so I don't see how the mafia having an extra kill every night would be balanced, especially if that role ends up dying early the mafia would be totally screwed.

Can we get votals in here? We really need to consolidate soon. I'm not gonna be around for phase end because 6am is lol.

[Sunwoo]

##Unvote

##Vote: Kay

I'm a lot happier about this than Rein or Strege. I don't think Strege is scum even if his reasoning makes my head hurt. I didn't get a chance to reread Rein, though, and I don't think I'll have time for a reread today. Will get to that as soon as I can.

Grassbridger is not off the hook because he has not answered me nor has he existed at all since early D3. And where the fuck is Refa? His complete lack of doing anything useful this phase is starting to make me uncomfortable with him again.

[MRDRHAWK]

##Unvote

##Vote: Kay

nvm I saw Strege's full-on claim and while dual vigs sounds OP, iirc Objection send he only had one shot so it works out I GUESS

[charlie_]

Kay (4): Grassbridger, Euklyd, Boron, Poly
Rein (3): Strege, Kay, Levity

Levity (2): j00, SB
Strege (1): kirsche
Poly (1): Rein

Not Voting (1): Refa

i guess i'll skim kay before switching but it's likely what i'm gonna do when i sleep in a few minutes

[euklyd]

##Unvote

##Vote: Kay

nvm I saw Strege's full-on claim and while dual vigs sounds OP, iirc Objection send he only had one shot so it works out I GUESS

We don't even know that Objection was a vig; I've been assuming it was a fake for "don't lynch me" purposes.

He flipped Janitor.

[j00]

He did claim jan-vig

I'm going to bed too, seven for hammer right?

##Unvote

##Vote: Kay

[charlie_]

I'm okay with a Kay lynch due to D1 stuff plus her Rein suspicion seems really weak to me, considering she's barely mentioned him at all for anything aside from fluffy posts.

Not voting because we're close enough to the lynch anyway,

[Zkirsche]

Strege can you, in a line, give me your excuse for shooting Parr again because I might be misunderstanding it. The badness of your shot is scummy because it doesn't come from a town PoV imo. Rein or Kay would not have managed to get a push on one of you, they were/are leading lynch candidates.

Noone answered me which makes me less motivated to read stuff. j00 answered Strege's other question. I find myself agreeing with Poly a lot fwiw, except on Grass though. I can vote Kay for consolidation and be ok with it, would much prefer a Strege lynch though, I'm not here for phase end though.

[euklyd]

Kay is at L-1, BTW.

Pretty sure, since there are supposedly 5 people voting her with 6 votes between them, and there are 12 alive.

[Strege]

Strege can you, in a line, give me your excuse for shooting Parr again because I might be misunderstanding it. The badness of your shot is scummy because it doesn't come from a town PoV imo. Rein or Kay would not have managed to get a push on one of you, they were/are leading lynch candidates.

I wasn't feeling super confident about shooting Rein or Kay so I shot someone I thought was contributing less content. Also, I don't understand your third sentence.

I'll be busy up to deadline and sleeping before it hits, but I'll try to answer questions and comment on stuff that pertains to wagons. Of course I'm okay with a Kay lynch but I'd rather a Rein lynch.

[Refa]

Yeah, I've been a bit...busy. My second class just started this week, and apparently the teacher is making up for the late start by swamping us with work. :\

@Strege

Two kills again makes me feel a lot worse about Strege. I don't think he's town, while the first kill could come from a town motivated reason, the second one was just pretty bad. I doubt anyone actually thought Parrhesia was the most likely to be scum. Before I had sneaking suspicions that he was ITP since I didn't see town having 2 kills, but ITP would need to kill scum to win and he well, yeah I already explained the reasoning there. Also this correlates with Euklyd's setup whatever. The only thing bothering me about this is that well...a compulsive vig seems really overpowered for scum. :\ Setup spec here though, compulsive vig doesn't really read as a scum role (AKA the role all of the town has) since obviously scum would vig compulsively anyways there's like no benefit for them to not too.

OK, he doesn't like Kay hardly pushing her Shinori read. I don't really get it. She made several responses to Shinori, how would you expect her to push the Shinori read as town? Already explained why I agreed with Kay's perspective and why I still don't think Rein is scum despite that.

I voted Kay because I thought (and still do) think that she's scummy.

@kirsche

I'm too lazy to quote (...heheh) anything specific but kirsche's first post is good. I do think that Rein has been lacking in cases, which I find to be a much better point than whatever Kay has said about fencesitting. My only problem is that he doesn't say anything WRT to the person he's voting, which is like...why? I would like some clarification on that. Also since I'm basically agreeing with half the things he says, I guess I should mention I agree with the other half as well. Like the Strege case. Him (Strege) claiming to have shot Prims did read as a slip to me too.

##Vote: Strege

I feel a lot better about this than I do about Kay.

[Refa]

@Grassbridger

Grassbridger doing a 180 and saying Kay is scummy for low content doesn't make any sense to me. In all fairness, that could just be me looking for contradictions, since it would be a bit dumb for a townie who thought lurking was scummy to be unable to vote anyone who posts a lot ever. His other Kay points are good. And Strege probably isn't the Usurper, considering the Usurper is town and his kills would still have to make logical sense from a townie's perspective. Not really bothered by Usurper spec, I don't see any scum intent in it.

Don't agree with you WRT to Strege though. If someone tracked him or whatever and he hadn't claimed, he would be instantly lynched, no questions asked.

@SB

Ugh, his first post is really bothering me. On one hand, I don't see him doing rereads as scum. On the other hand, I don't actually like some of the rereads. Like his Via complaints are all D1 and regarding the Prims case, reads as a serious case of tunneling to me. If we complained about it and didn't lynch them D2, what makes you think we'll lynch them D3 over the exact same content? Heck, why would you even need to reread Via, you've already spent more than enough time talking about their D1 seriously. His other points feel like they're sheeping other people, but I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with them. It's just that there's nothing particularly original here. His later content makes me feel better as a whole, so maybe I was just mad because he went through the stuff everyone had already talked about first. I don't like his Euklyd case though, I don't see why Euklyd would claim double voter so early as scum and the case in general just bothers me really.

j00, being self aware of tunneling doesn't actually make your case look better. Also wanting to lynch Euklyd despite never stating any opinions on him beforehand or making a case feels a lot worse than whatever SB is doing.

Also did anyone receive Poly's Role PM? This is kind of important, that's the whole reason that he wasn't lynched last phase. Also why is anyone who got his role PM scum? Meh, I was bothered by him early on this day, but his reads post is looking pretty great to me and I am agreeing with a lot of them so I don't think he's scum.

[Refa]

Reads are as follows

Town

Refa

Euklyd

Levity

Polydeuces

kirsche

Grassbridger

Null

Boron

Reinfleche

SB

Scum

j00

Kay

Strege

Man, it's been literally FOREVER since I've done on of these. No hamfisted explanations this time though, my content should have already done the work.

[Refa]

Also just in general, it feels like that there's a lot of push against the Strege lynch while the Kay lynch is just...happening? Although I don't see why scum would allow a turbowagon on her to happen the last phase and maybe I'm just overthinking things here...Actually...If the numbers are 7/4, and we mislynch, then Strege could fire another shot in addition to the scum kill and allow scum to win. So basically what I'm saying is uh...that Strege doesn't have another shot. Well that makes a fuckton of difference. :\

[Refa]

Actually considering the numbers are 14/4, even with 2 kills reducing the numbers to 12/4 scum would still need 4 mislynches to win. However, if Strege is to be believed, then town has THREE town sided kills, against 4 scum. I'm feeling a lot better about this, other townies should sheep.

[Strege]

@Strege

Two kills again makes me feel a lot worse about Strege. I don't think he's town, while the first kill could come from a town motivated reason, the second one was just pretty bad. I doubt anyone actually thought Parrhesia was the most likely to be scum. Before I had sneaking suspicions that he was ITP since I didn't see town having 2 kills, but ITP would need to kill scum to win and he well, yeah I already explained the reasoning there. Also this correlates with Euklyd's setup whatever. The only thing bothering me about this is that well...a compulsive vig seems really overpowered for scum. :\ ~1~ Setup spec here though, compulsive vig doesn't really read as a scum role (AKA the role all of the town has) since obviously scum would vig compulsively anyways there's like no benefit for them to not too.

~2~ OK, he doesn't like Kay hardly pushing her Shinori read. I don't really get it. She made several responses to Shinori, how would you expect her to push the Shinori read as town? Already explained why I agreed with Kay's perspective and why I still don't think Rein is scum despite that.

I voted Kay because I thought (and still do) think that she's scummy.

@kirsche

~3~ I'm too lazy to quote (...heheh) anything specific but kirsche's first post is good. I do think that Rein has been lacking in cases, which I find to be a much better point than whatever Kay has said about fencesitting. My only problem is that he doesn't say anything WRT to the person he's voting, which is like...why? I would like some clarification on that. Also since I'm basically agreeing with half the things he says, I guess I should mention I agree with the other half as well. Like the Strege case. ~4~ Him (Strege) claiming to have shot Prims did read as a slip to me too.

##Vote: Strege

I feel a lot better about this than I do about Kay.

I'm going to split this up a little.

1. Compulsive vig actually emulates a scum vig if they would vig compulsively. (Not sure if I'm expected to reply to what comes before this part; it doesn't seem to suggesting anything?)

2. Kay's argument was that Shinori was touchy about his Manix position and that he didn't do much D2, which isn't a bunch. I can't say what she should have found scummy and not but points of interest include: why his apathy was or was not scummy, whether his comments and voting behaviour regarding Manix were scummy (role and Via interactions), his vote on Rein, and his claim.

3. What first post? Who hasn't said anything wrt who they are voting?

4. As scum why would I initially claim the kill I didn't take? That would open me up to an incriminating watcher or tracker report.

@Grassbridger

~5~ Grassbridger doing a 180 and saying Kay is scummy for low content doesn't make any sense to me. In all fairness, that could just be me looking for contradictions, since it would be a bit dumb for a townie who thought lurking was scummy to be unable to vote anyone who posts a lot ever. His other Kay points are good. And Strege probably isn't the Usurper, considering the Usurper is town and his kills would still have to make logical sense from a townie's perspective. Not really bothered by Usurper spec, I don't see any scum intent in it.

[...]

Also did anyone receive Poly's Role PM? This is kind of important, that's the whole reason that he wasn't lynched last phase. Also why is anyone who got his role PM scum? Meh, I was bothered by him early on this day, but ~6~ his reads post is looking pretty great to me and I am agreeing with a lot of them so I don't think he's scum.

5. 180 from what?

6. I disagree with this reasoning a lot, in general.

[Percivalé]

i saw compulsive vig as a link to sk so that's kinda a scummy role still

except we apparently don't have thirds unless euk is lying scum

[Refa]

1. But Compulsive Vigilante isn't a scum role.

2. OK, your reasoning regarding this makes sense. It was kind of a loaded question thinking about it, sorry about that.

3. That was referring to kirsche and why he didn't say anything about Kay.

4. That's not really the problem, it's more that as town!Vig you would be more likely to remember the kill you made while as scum both kills would be because of your team and you wouldn't really care either way. On the other hand, I don't see why you'd claim to shoot Furet over Manix....Ugh...

5. 180 degrees from saying that I was scummy despite posting a lot yesterday. Feels like he was finding people scummy for conflicting reasons. Already listed why I don't think that's the case.

6. Care to explain your read on Polydeuces then?

[MRDRHAWK]

except we apparently don't have thirds unless euk is lying scum

iirc that was Grass who said we had no ITPs

[Refa]

They both did IIRC.