I Can't Believe It's not SFMM4! - Game Over

[eclipse]

One of these days, I'll see the point in crumbs. NOT TODAY.

It's like leaving a scrambled dossier of yourself in public, in the hopes that the wrong people don't pick it up, decipher it, and use it to screw with your life.

[Bluedoom]

Hmm yeah I think FFM's more likely to be scum for reasons Eli gave(#566 says it all)

Refa's Phoenix vote was uhh... it actually didn't look so strong to me IMO. Voting Phoenix over FFM is suspicious IMO, and FFM's flip will probably give a better read on Refa.

Much of D1 felt inconsistent to me. By that I mean a lot of people's play in general, including my predecessor's.I don't get why she suddenly thought Phoenix was scum and I'm unhappy with the Phoenix lynch ;-;.

I would post more reads but currently I'm not able to get a lot out of it so far. A lot of it does depend on FFM's flip, and considering I find it hard to get anything out of D1, and there are people like Elieson/Euklyd who I can't get a clear read on (Elieson's reasoning seems clearer at first glance, like the supposed FFM 'scumslip')

[Bluedoom]

Hey guys, I'm most definitely not gay. I see Eurykins and eclipse and Iris are playing though.

Yo ladies, sup?

##Vote Phoenix01

Welcome to mafia, bro

Elieson's char confirmed for Helios lol.

Shinori u suck for spreading the pain and linking a sucky nicki minaj video

[Darros]

Darros. . .this is NOC, and even if you're talking to someone in the game about something completely and utterly unrelated. . .don't mention it in here. Please. For my sanity. To the rest of you, the second half of my role is easily proven. But I don't see a reason to claim what I gained, because I think scum got way the fuck too much free info already. I like watching scum squirm.

REASONS TO CLAIM:

- Get a lynch off of you

- Get a lynch onto someone else (via night results/CC)

- Get a lynch off of someone else (via night results)

- Massclaim

- Needed to resolve a situation to get someone lynched/cleared

"Shits and giggles" doesn't appear anywhere on that list, and neither does "because I couldn't think of a reason not to". I think your claim was badly timed with very little reasoning. . .but not scummy by itself. THIS is how to claim blocked.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say that Darros fails at reading comprehension and that he was hit by Eury's role (now that we have Poly claiming a block, but not a permanent one).

It was only coming up for the reason that Refa used "Darros disappeared at the end of phase -> scummy" as an argument. I literally could not be here and I wanted to clear that up.

Yeah, I know what I did wasn't smart. But I felt that if Wen asked me too, well, Wen knows what he's doing right? Saying "no I dont want to claim for you" would be extremely scummy would it not? I claimed blocked before I claimed, I only did because Wen asked me to claim.

I could leave it as a possibility, but I wouldn't think for sure that I've been hit by Eury. We already discussed this. It doesn't make much sense for the "indefinite roleblock" to occur if Eury died, right? I'll really have to see tonight if my ability returns before I can make a conclusive decision about that.

You didn't have anything from D1 that warranted a vote to throw down for D2? Backtracking is a thing, you kno-

Wait wait wait

Where exactly did your mind change on Refa now? you sure as heck didn't mention him inbetween your suspicion post of him and your town post of him, and they're both made within d2's time

Darros really needs to expand on his Refa read.

Well, though not having any results to really speak of, Refa has been doing a job being active and trying to get as much info out of town as possible, I feel. After I slept, I read the thread again, and I really am not getting any more scum vibes from him. He seemed to be the first on "why did you claim Darros!??", a question which was echoed by a few people. It all seems very townie to me.

Though having more roles in the public may hurt, I'd have to agree with Green poet on that a fullclaim from FFM is in order, this is a very confusing situation and I don't think we can make anything out of it without more information from FFM.

[BBM]

VOTALS

FFM (5) - Kopfjager, Euklyd, Refa, Darros, Eclipse

Eukyld (2) - Elieson, Iris

Kopfjager (2) - Shinori, Polydeuces

Iris (1) - Green Poet

Refa (1) - Junko

Not Voting (1) - FFM

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to hammer and 4 to lynch at deadline. You have 4 hours and 46 minutes remaining. Phase ends on Thursday May 1st at 5 PM EST (10 PM GMT).

A note that I may once again be absent at phase end.

[Shinori]

Puttin' my vote on FFM.

I won't be here at phase end.

##Unvote:

##Vote: FFM

[Green Poet]

Thinking realistically, FFM will probably get lynched today regardless of his claim. But quite a few things ping me about Marth's few posts since he's subbed in, and I'd like to have these addressed since, again, I'll probably die tonight and there's a disappointing lack of people who had scumreads on Iris.

Seeing as you also claim to be confused about Iris' actions late-D1 that I had issues with here, I can only ask why you think she voted how she did. So that isn't entirely relevant to my case on your slot anymore.

However, there's more telling content elsewhere. Iris' claim is unambiguous, and you can answer for it.

Ok so I'm gonna start off by saying that if I were to fullclaim now, my role wouldn't make sense as town for a lot of you, but if I was scum I'd be too OP. Take this as you will.

Iris was essentially claiming inventor that gives items with counterintuitive uses, which is a town role. We know this because:

-If she was telling the truth, the nature of the role precludes it from being a mafia inventor, as scumbuddies can simply communicate to each other what each item actually does. So it wouldn't be "too OP" as scum, just weird and unnecessarily complex.

-It's also not likely to be an SK's role, since they need to benefit themselves more than others. She also wouldn't tell the thread what the medkit actually did if she was SK!inventor.

What Iris claimed is an entirely believable role for town in theory, and I don't see why you say otherwise; this is a contradiction between your claim and Iris'.

Also, you choosing to say "fullclaim" rather than simply "claim" implies pretty heavily that there were still things Iris hadn't told us. . .

[Green Poet]

FFM is at L-2 now guys so let's be careful with that.

##Vote: FFM

Shinori what are you doin

[Elieson]

With acouple of hours left, FFM might still have something to bring to the table, but unless there's something crazy new brought up, I'm still confident with my read on him. Not feeling up to hammering though, EVEN THOUGH SHINORI SEEMS GUNG-HO WITH HIS VOTE, since still time to chat and Marth is back in action.

^GP, Iris did claim that she could give out various stuff, and since they're titled weirdly apparently, I can see why Marth would be outting that as "it's scummy as a fullclaim". Like,a Vigshot called [Medkit] is weird, because without elaboration, one might think that they're holding like, a doc item or something. IMO it doesn't mean much with clarification because based on context, because until an item successfully used even, it's not indicative of anything except confirmation of having an active role.

tl;dr doesn't mean much IMO

eclipse has also had an ITP doublebomb or something, which is counter=intuitive of what you'd expect from an ITP

[Green Poet]

^GP, Iris did claim that she could give out various stuff, and since they're titled weirdly apparently, I can see why Marth would be outting that as "it's scummy as a fullclaim". Like,a Vigshot called [Medkit] is weird, because without elaboration, one might think that they're holding like, a doc item or something. IMO it doesn't mean much with clarification because based on context, because until an item successfully used even, it's not indicative of anything except confirmation of having an active role.

tl;dr doesn't mean much IMO

That's not what Marth said.

my role wouldn't make sense as town for a lot of you, but if I was scum I'd be too OP

He said that the role isn't particularly believable for either alignment, which doesn't match up with what Iris said, because her claim was decidedly that of a town role.

[Shinori]

You have 4 hours and 46 minutes remaining. Phase ends on Thursday May 1st at 5 PM EST (10 PM GMT).

And I'm about to leave so I won't be here.

[Elieson]

That's not what Marth said.

He said that the role isn't particularly believable for either alignment, which doesn't match up with what Iris said, because her claim was decidedly that of a town role.

I COMPLETELY misread his blurb there, derp.

[euklyd]

YEAH QUICKHAMMER
##unvote
##vote: FFM

(I was already voting him, hah)
First of all, since I will be here at dealine, I'll...
##unvote (FFM)
(He's now at L-2, I think - no quickhammers for you.)

Thinking realistically, FFM will probably get lynched today regardless of his claim. But quite a few things ping me about Marth's few posts since he's subbed in, and I'd like to have these addressed since, again, I'll probably die tonight and there's a disappointing lack of people who had scumreads on Iris.

Seeing as you also claim to be confused about Iris' actions late-D1 that I had issues with here, I can only ask why you think she voted how she did. So that isn't entirely relevant to my case on your slot anymore.

However, there's more telling content elsewhere. Iris' claim is unambiguous, and you can answer for it.
Iris was essentially claiming inventor that gives items with counterintuitive uses, which is a town role. We know this because:
-If she was telling the truth, the nature of the role precludes it from being a mafia inventor, as scumbuddies can simply communicate to each other what each item actually does. So it wouldn't be "too OP" as scum, just weird and unnecessarily complex.
-It's also not likely to be an SK's role, since they need to benefit themselves more than others. She also wouldn't tell the thread what the medkit actually did if she was SK!inventor.

What Iris claimed is an entirely believable role for town in theory, and I don't see why you say otherwise; this is a contradiction between your claim and Iris'.
Also, you choosing to say "fullclaim" rather than simply "claim" implies pretty heavily that there were still things Iris hadn't told us. . .

This is some pretty lame nitpicking. Your defense of the role is lame, and your attacks on the manner of claiming don't make much sense either.
– "townslips" can be really easily faked; scum can tell scumbuddies things in-thread that they could better tell them in a scumchat as a "townslip" really easily.
– Handing out a vigshot is a bit OP for scum, but it's not completely implausible (if she's even telling the truth about handing out a vigshot). Especially if there were limitations that she didn't tell us about (can't hand them out to scumbuddies, for example).
– I could definitely see an Inventor SK. Pretty sure they've been done in the past (certainly Elieson was a really weird lots-of-abilities-SK in CY'OR).
– SK!Iris might want to tell people what the 'medkit' actually did if she was SK so that if she claimed Inventor later she wouldn't be lynched for indirectly killing someone with a deceitful item. Same goes for scum!Iris, for that matter.

I'm just seeing a lot of "well this makes him town but this makes him scum" here and none of it has great logic, and why are you scumreading him if you think that his role makes no sense as anti-town (and you seem to believe that it is a realclaim)?

And then I don't see what you meant by "contradiction"—
cut by Elieson. holy fuck how did I miss that as well.
Got it.
Seems like a kinda lame nitpick, but I understand now.

[Bluedoom]

That's not what Marth said.

He said that the role isn't particularly believable for either alignment, which doesn't match up with what Iris said, because her claim was decidedly that of a town role.

by that I really mean "my role is naturally scummy so you might not think I'm town but if I wad mafia that'd be op"

Yeah I left sk outta the equation bcuz anyone can be accused of it so lol

[Bluedoom]

Gp I don't have an idea about what you think about iris' claim bcuz all she claimed was giving a vigshot.

I'm not saying anymore bcuz now I feel like you're role fishing

[eclipse]

My apologies, I need to respond to this before going back to bed.

Yeah, I know what I did wasn't smart. But I felt that if Wen asked me too, well, Wen knows what he's doing right? Saying "no I dont want to claim for you" would be extremely scummy would it not? I claimed blocked before I claimed, I only did because Wen asked me to claim.

Alright, here's how it works. Everyone who has no idea when/how to claim, shovel this away in your "How to Play Mafia" notes. It's rare that I can give a practical lesson during the game (and it seems at least two people need it).

If some random stranger were to ask for a copy of your house keys and address, would you give it to them because "you couldn't think of anything better"? Just as RL information is protected behind "why the fuck do you need to know this about me?" so too is mafia role PMs. Unless you have a VERY good reason to reveal anything about your role (keeping the lynch off your ass is an extremely good reason), you're not scummy for saying no; the other person is scummy for asking without cause (if in doubt, make the other person explain why s/he needs to know your role). Claiming blocked is usually enough; after that, it's who you targeted. Very rarely will you need to out what you were doing - and I mean VERY rarely. This was one situation where claiming that your action failed, followed by your action targeting Frosty, would've been sufficient.

Mafia and real life have interesting parallels, and knowing how much information to reveal about yourself is one of them.

I might have an idea of what Marth is alluding to, but I think it wasn't worth outing. What I don't like is that rolefishing accusation - you're the one that volunteered information about your role for no good reason.

[euklyd]

by that I really mean "my role is naturally scummy so you might not think I'm town but if I wad mafia that'd be op"

Yeah I left sk outta the equation bcuz anyone can be accused of it so lol

In this case SK makes perfect sense (scum as well, but in my experience SKs are more likely to have weird roles), so it really shouldn't be left out.

Handing out a vigshot that sounds like it's a docshot (and so can be used to nab a bonus kill when the person you give it to tries to protect a townread) seems pretty suspicious to me, and Iris' play hasn't exactly been very townie.

Elieson needs to explain why I'm scummy (besides a vague "Phoenix vote was inconsistent") or start looking elsewhere.

This just feels like a votepark, and a really lame one at that (no bias, ofc), since he's basically been saying "Euk's vote on Phoenix was inconsistent," votes me ED1, and then the only thing he says about me is that "he still doesn't have great content" without expanding at all.

we have <2 hours until deadline, btw, and FFM is at L-2.

[Refa]

Good morning. Time to read things.

...I really hate System Fundamentals.

[Refa]

Regardless, there isn't exactly anyone who is obvscum on role/night action alone, unless you want to claim BULLETPROOF MILLER INFINITE-SHOT VIG or something.

MAYBE I WOULD

While I think the premise is a bit nitpicky, Refa's response is interesting (and not in a good way for my read on him). Rather than give a reasonable explanation, he blew it off.

Honestly I don't care if people are scumreading me because of that. It's just a total pain in the ass to have to defend myself from associative reads when the other person hasn't even flipped yet.

Refa's Phoenix vote was uhh... it actually didn't look so strong to me IMO. Voting Phoenix over FFM is suspicious IMO, and FFM's flip will probably give a better read on Refa.

If FFM flips Mafia: Refa was bussing him

If FFM flips Town: Refa was going for another easy mislynch

If FFM flips SK: Refa needs to be policy lynched for killing the obviously town sided ITP

Dammit, I just can't win.

This is some pretty lame nitpicking. Your defense of the role is lame, and your attacks on the manner of claiming don't make much sense either.

– I could definitely see an Inventor SK. Pretty sure they've been done in the past (certainly Elieson was a really weird lots-of-abilities-SK in CY'OR).

– SK!Iris might want to tell people what the 'medkit' actually did if she was SK so that if she claimed Inventor later she wouldn't be lynched for indirectly killing someone with a deceitful item. Same goes for scum!Iris, for that matter.

I'm just seeing a lot of "well this makes him town but this makes him scum" here and none of it has great logic, and why are you scumreading him if you think that his role makes no sense as anti-town (and you seem to believe that it is a realclaim)?

-I agree with most of your points, but Inventor!SK makes no sense. It doesn't actually benefit the SK in any way (hey, I'm a poet and don't know it).

-OK, but like so would Town!Iris. Like...I don't really get why this sways her one way or the other.

[Green Poet]

This is some pretty lame nitpicking. Your defense of the role is lame, and your attacks on the manner of claiming don't make much sense either.

I'm not defending the role, nor am I attacking how it was claimed. I don't like how Iris and Marth's claims don't match.

– "townslips" can be really easily faked; scum can tell scumbuddies things in-thread that they could better tell them in a scumchat as a "townslip" really easily.

Why are we talking about townslips again. . .?

– Handing out a vigshot is a bit OP for scum, but it's not completely implausible (if she's even telling the truth about handing out a vigshot). Especially if there were limitations that she didn't tell us about (can't hand them out to scumbuddies, for example).

Why would scum give a vigshot to town?

– I could definitely see an Inventor SK. Pretty sure they've been done in the past (certainly Elieson was a really weird lots-of-abilities-SK in CY'OR).

I already explained why Iris!SK doesn't make sense if she's an inventor, because her actions do not further an SK wincon. It doesn't matter if the role has existed in previous games; it is illogical for Iris to be it, unless she has lied.

– SK!Iris might want to tell people what the 'medkit' actually did if she was SK so that if she claimed Inventor later she wouldn't be lynched for indirectly killing someone with a deceitful item. Same goes for scum!Iris, for that matter.

So you also think Iris could be scum. Great, moving on. . .

I'm just seeing a lot of "well this makes him town but this makes him scum" here and none of it has great logic, and why are you scumreading him if you think that his role makes no sense as anti-town (and you seem to believe that it is a realclaim)?

I said that Iris' claim makes sense as town in theory, but I myself do not believe it because it contradicts Marth's description of it. My post aimed to show this:

-Iris has claimed a town role that, if true, only makes sense as town.

-Marth's claim does not match up with Iris' claim because he says that it is not believable as town.

That's all. I wouldn't have said "well this makes him town" when I've been saying Iris' slot is scum since this phase started. Hopefully more clarification on this isn't needed.

And then I don't see what you meant by "contradiction"—

cut by Elieson. holy fuck how did I miss that as well.

Got it.

Seems like a kinda lame nitpick, but I understand now.

Gp I don't have an idea about what you think about iris' claim bcuz all she claimed was giving a vigshot.

I'm not saying anymore bcuz now I feel like you're role fishing

No, that's only a fraction of what she's claimed.

Claiming to have given vigshot is only a part of what Iris has said about her role. She has said that she has other items, meaning that she started the game with at least three items, only one of which is a vigshot. She is very explicitly claiming inventor, who gives items that probably all have counter-intuitive uses which must be explained in-thread to avoid antitown results.

Town Inventor, even with the odd twist, is not "OP as scum." It's also not "unbelievable as town." Either Iris or Marth has lied about their slot's role when they had no need to; seriously, why are we not lynching/getting a claim out of this?

[euklyd]

-I agree with most of your points, but Inventor!SK makes no sense. It doesn't actually benefit the SK in any way (hey, I'm a poet and don't know it).

-OK, but like so would Town!Iris. Like...I don't really get why this sways her one way or the other.

- Because I've been scumreading her based on play, and there was an argument being made that claiming it the way she did was a townie thing. I didn't think I needed to repeat why it could be a town thing.

So, no, it doesn't really sway her either way.

This is sort of a general note, but: can people please not make responses to quotes WITHIN quotes? It makes it incredibly hard to respond to responses, since quotes within posts don't get included when you quote the post itself.

anyways.

No, that's only a fraction of what she's claimed.

Claiming to have given vigshot is only a part of what Iris has said about her role. She has said that she has other items, meaning that she started the game with at least three items, only one of which is a vigshot. She is very explicitly claiming inventor, who gives items that probably all have counter-intuitive uses which must be explained in-thread to avoid antitown results.

Town Inventor, even with the odd twist, is not "OP as scum." It's also not "unbelievable as town." Either Iris or Marth has lied about their slot's role when they had no need to; seriously, why are we not lynching/getting a claim out of this?

Just because you are only thinking of standard SK mechanics doesn't mean that more interesting variants can't exist. Iris' actions would definitely make sense from an inventor!SK's perspective, and I already explained why.

Bluedoom saying that his role doesn't make sense from a town POV and Iris not saying that really doesn't mean anything; it is an incredibly weak nitpick to make, imo, because it only tells us that they have different perspectives on how to play the role.

I really don't like how you're rolefishing this close to EoD; it's not like we're going to lynch Bluedoom today anyways, so unless you're trying to decide night actions, there's no point in him claiming /now/.

It's really just rolefishing.

[Refa]

Even if you (hypothetically) Day-Copped Marth at this very moment and he scanned as Scum, we would still not be lynching him because there are just not enough people around to make that happen.

Although I think you do bring up some good points elsewhere. I don't get why Marth said his role was "OP as scum" or "wouldn't make sense as town" either. Would like some answers from him on that.

[charlie_]

you guys have 11 minutes

[euklyd]

you guys have 11 minutes

FFM is at L-2, right?

[Shinori]

Apparently I am gonna be here for phase end.