So, what characters are recommended for a first HHM run?

[Colonel M]

Bear in mind to recruit Geitz your total Lord levels have to approach Level 50 or more. Otherwise you will recruit Wallace.

I highly recommend doing LHM first. If you can promote Sain - he makes HHM a little easier when duoing with Marcus in certain areas.

Other units that I can recommend:

- Florina with a little bit of investment is nice.

- Dorcas is good for earlygame chapters where Lances are flooding still. Just avoid those Mercenaries and Myrmidons.

- Oswin will help with earlygame but he gets really lackluster fast due to his lower Mov and low Speed base.

- Bartre needs training; however, if you're a little lucky on the Speed he can be okay.

- Priscilla is cool. Mounted healer. Serra is fine.

- Just kind of train Hector a little so he can kind of keep up. He promotes stupid late sadly, so bear that in mind.

- Obviously Marcus is a based God.

- Heath is really good.

- Raven is solid.

- Pent is also a God. Louise isn't bad as a Sniper either.

But really just look at the Serenes stats page to kind of help you out. Bear in mind that the enemies here are often weighed down a lot, so Speed isn't a major concern unless they're promoted enemies or it is lategame.

[Mekkah]

Oswin, Marcus and Hector are good friends for long times. Take many hits and don't die and stuff. Good to get used to HHM.

Kent, Sain and Raven are good units to train up. Erk and Canas too (a little harder but still very good). Matthew is nice to have at a reasonable level for HHM. Florina is good when trained, bad when not. Use one of Priscilla and Serra.

Pretty much all prepromotes barring a few can always pick up slack. Isadora, Pent, Harken, Hawkeye, Vaida...Geitz would work but I wouldn't expect to recruit him.

Don't worry about having one of each class or one of each weapon type or anything, that doesn't matter much.

[XeKr]

I'm going to play LHM mode beforehand yeah. About the suggestions for Heath, so far I've mostly ignored him because of rough start (not doubling stuff, mediocre state allround), I figured this would especially be painful on HHM, but he's still a good unit to bring if I read so? I also see Dart in the list sometimes, same story for him.

Heath is quite good, but might actually be better in the case of going really fast (which some people here value). Compare to Fiora, for example, who doesn’t really have time to level at that kind of pace and has much lower Str/Def (Spd also mitigated by promo gains and Con). But in a slower paced run she might have a significant level+supports lead.

Anyways, just use him if you like him, most unpromoted units (except like Raven, or a high level Lyn mode unit with possibly statboosters. Oswin too if you like Knights) need a little bit of early training, but they're all pretty usable.

I’ll also emphasize this following point because it's really the most important advice (and all you really need to make things easy): Buy Pure Water/Restore, and don’t be afraid of prepromos if/when you’re having trouble.

Edited April 23, 2014 by XeKr

[General Banzai]

I don't think that's what the op is asking for hahahaha

I don't think he'll go LTCing or aiming for low turn counts, if that's what you're implying with optimally

He probably just want to know what units are going to make surviving through HHM easier.

I don't LTC and I'm giving the same advice dondon is giving more or less

This is the EASIEST way to beat the game even if you are going slow

LHM promoted Sain is basically Marcus 2.0 as if Marcus wasn't god enough

Using guys like Bartre or Lowen or whoever else people are recommending here isn't impossible, it just makes the game more difficult, especially for a new player. Guys like LHM!Sain Marcus etc can be flung into almost any situation willy nilly and come out on top with minimal-to-no babying necessary

Babying makes the game more difficult

[BBM]

What makes Lyn more of a liability? Keeping her away from enemies in the four or five chapters where she's forced, or babying her for 15 chapters? If you're doing LHM, she'll come out at ~L8-10 probably, in which case getting her to promo is not terribly difficult, but it's still more difficult than sticking her into a safe spot when she's forced.

@RFoF- Priscilla isn't going to be good at combat if you promote her early because then her magic sucks. 10/1 Priscilla has like 11 magic and 11 AS and is using Fire. It's not very impressive. And that's coupled with pretty bad durability.

[Florete]

you misunderstand me. a super powered sain and florina is going to make HHM easy regardless of whether one LTCs or plays casually. if we tell the OP to train sain and florina while promoting the former at ~L12 and giving the latter an angelic robe and energy ring, then we are plainly explaining how to trivialize the game, and how he does so is merely contingent on the ability or willingness to follow instructions. it does not matter if the OP is playing quickly or slowly - it is very possible to easily stroll through the game at a leisurely rate.

Note that I am not saying these are bad ideas or bad things to do.

What I am saying is that you overestimate the effect it will have for a player who hasn't played the mode before. Pacing hardly even matters, it's about experience.

oh, please. let's not hand-wave what i have to say by appealing to the bullshit fact that i'm "too good" at the game. it's not the first time...

That is hardly what I'm saying.

@RFoF- Priscilla isn't going to be good at combat if you promote her early because then her magic sucks. 10/1 Priscilla has like 11 magic and 11 AS and is using Fire. It's not very impressive. And that's coupled with pretty bad durability.

So, uh, don't promote her at 10. Not that hard.

What I meant by "super late" was by chapter, not level. Promoting Priscilla at Ch 31 probably won't do you much good, but a 16-20/1 Priscilla at around Ch 25 will be plenty up to par as a combat unit, owing mostly to FE7's weak enemies. She also grows faster than most, which will help her get ahead quick.

[General Banzai]

@RFoF- Priscilla isn't going to be good at combat if you promote her early because then her magic sucks. 10/1 Priscilla has like 11 magic and 11 AS and is using Fire. It's not very impressive. And that's coupled with pretty bad durability.

If you're not doing LTC you can usually get Priss Level 18-20 promo'd by around Ch 22 or 23

Though really it's not like you need to rely on Priss for your main combat, and she can still ORKO knights and shit even at a low level promo

[Nobody]

I don't LTC and I'm giving the same advice dondon is giving more or less

This is the EASIEST way to beat the game even if you are going slow

LHM promoted Sain is basically Marcus 2.0 as if Marcus wasn't god enough

Using guys like Bartre or Lowen or whoever else people are recommending here isn't impossible, it just makes the game more difficult, especially for a new player. Guys like LHM!Sain Marcus etc can be flung into almost any situation willy nilly and come out on top with minimal-to-no babying necessary

Babying makes the game more difficult

My advice was kind of similar to yours as well, and i agree that babying is unreliable and many times makes the game harder (and that bartre sucks). I just wanted to say that playing LHM won't take the difficulty away for a beginner.

[Shadow Mir]

What makes Lyn more of a liability? Keeping her away from enemies in the four or five chapters where she's forced, or babying her for 15 chapters? If you're doing LHM, she'll come out at ~L8-10 probably, in which case getting her to promo is not terribly difficult, but it's still more difficult than sticking her into a safe spot when she's forced.

Well, granted, just sticking her in a safe spot might be easier, but at the same time, I think that not bothering with a main character is asking for trouble later on down the road. Also, I think that Lloyd's FFO is the devil - another reason for me to actually bother with her.

[General Banzai]

Well, granted, just sticking her in a safe spot might be easier, but at the same time, I think that not bothering with a main character is asking for trouble later on down the road. Also, I think that Lloyd's FFO is the devil - another reason for me to actually bother with her.

Honestly I'd say Lyn is more of a liability even trained because her defense and offense suck and her dodge is mitigated by the extreme amount of lance users prowling about

[BBM]

I didn't LTC or even play efficiently my first run and I couldn't get Priscilla to level 20 until like right before CoD so ???. Granted if I'd had her spam Torch and stuff she could have promoted earlier but I have no idea how you get her 15 levels in 10 chapters to be 18-20 for the desert.

Lloyd's FFO just takes a few tries so you know where to put her so that the wyverns and Purge and whatnot can't hit her. And the chapter is probably getting cleared pretty quickly even in a casual run so...

Edited April 24, 2014 by BigPlaysMeteor

[Tamanoir]

About LHM...

It won't helps a lot for the first chapters anyway.
Training Dorcas isn't really recomended, because ec=ven with some exp, he'll still be bad.
And Matthew will never be a fantastic combat unit anyway. The first chaptert can be really hard (especialy if you want that Red Gem) if he hasn't some level behind it.

Matthew will makes things easier on early game, but it's mainly becuasue you don't want to reset every time a unit you will needs dying every goddamn time.

But the end game, you have units like Pent or Harken anyway.

Also, why Promoting Sain ? Kent can do the job as well as him, sometimes even better.

I do prefer Sain for story reason, but each one has as much sense to be good.

[General Banzai]

About LHM...

It won't helps a lot for the first chapters anyway.

Training Dorcas isn't really recomended, because ec=ven with some exp, he'll still be bad.

And Matthew will never be a fantastic combat unit anyway. The first chaptert can be really hard (especialy if you want that Red Gem) if he hasn't some level behind it.

Matthew will makes things easier on early game, but it's mainly becuasue you don't want to reset every time a unit you will needs dying every goddamn time.

But the end game, you have units like Pent or Harken anyway.

Also, why Promoting Sain ? Kent can do the job as well as him, sometimes even better.

I do prefer Sain for story reason, but each one has as much sense to be good.

I guess you can make a decision on Kent vs Sain based on how they turn out statwise, but on average Sain's gonna have better offense and comparable everything else

[Dark Sage]

Kent's primary advantage over Sain is that with a promotion, he can double and one round mercenaries, which Sain often misses. I'm not saying that makes him a better choice for the early Knight Crest though.

I also like how the advice in this thread is basically use everybody (seriously Bartre is terrible, why would you ever recommend him).

[Elieson]

Kent's primary advantage over Sain is that with a promotion, he can double and one round mercenaries, which Sain often misses. I'm not saying that makes him a better choice for the early Knight Crest though.

I also like how the advice in this thread is basically use everybody (seriously Bartre is terrible, why would you ever recommend him).

That and a slightly higher base Speed, but seriously

Kent has +5% Speed growth over Sain, and +1 Speed base over Sain, whereas Sain has a whopping 20% Str growth and an already higher Str base over Kent. The Skl and Luk growths between the two offset eachother, but Sain uses accurate weaponry in Swords and Lances (minus Javelins) anyway, so it's not that big a deal.

The +5% Speed growths means that on average, Kent will have what, +2 speed from levelups ROUNDING UP over Sain, but Sain will have an immense muscle lead, pushing him ahead more and more, the more he's used.

And enemy speed in FE generally sucks, so 1 speed shouldn't make a significant difference.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Elieson

[intergalacticoh]

For my long-term team, I generally use Kent and/or Sain, Florina or Fiora, Heath, Canas, Pent, Karel or Harken, and one of the two healers, or something like that. Usually end up benching Serra, but sometimes Priscilla just ends up so badly that I promote Serra instead.

Since this is your first run, though, I'd recommend using Raven, both healers long-term, and try using Farina. Farina's so much fun in her recruitment chapter with the monk fort on the eastern side of the map, not to mention that she's the best peg knight combat-wise.

Oh, and use Guy if you feel like it, too, because he gets hard mode bonuses, which can be fun. Also, take a few magic users (on foot) for the desert chapter, which is fog of war in HHM. I really like Canas for that map because of all the powerful Thunder/Elfire mages around, and also because Canas is my personal favorite magic wielder in this game.

I've used shit like Bartre and Erk on HHM, but the results aren't really that satisfying. Fuck Erk's low Mag and E staves.

EDIT: If you wanna use a bow-wielder, just use Lyn. Use the first Heaven Seal in ch26 on her and let her rip on all the wyverns with (hopefully) supports with the other lords.

Speaking of lords, Eliwood is good in this mode - don't let people tell you otherwise just because of his underwhelming performance in tier 1. His combat is not terrible and after he promotes he's essentially another paladin with no axe access, and his stats, while low initially, usually grow consistently and he ends up very well-rounded. Idk, his positives usually outshine his negatives in my eyes. Of course, since this isn't ranked, you have the freedom to use both Heaven Seals without hurting your Funds rank, so I would actually recommend both Eliwood and Lyn alongside Hector.

Edited April 25, 2014 by intergalacticoh

[BBM]

Eliwood's Tier 1 performance is pretty cruddy. His Tier 2 performance is good and so I like using him, but his unpromoted performance is a huge downside. It's even more of one if Lyn takes the first Seal, because then he's not promoting until like 28x or something.

[Nobody]

Eliwood is terrible IMO. Yeah, his tier 2 performance is good, but so is Roy's. You'll only be able to promote him on chapter 26 IIRC, so you're stuck with him sucking for most of the game, and arguably the hardest part of it.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Nobody

[General Banzai]

The main problem with Eliwood is that you have to feed him kills in the early chapters, when you could easily just be crushing those chapters with Marcus + Oswin and Hector with no need to slow down whatsoever. If you do feed him kills he becomes an offensively trash loser until he finally promotes, at which point he's basically a tankier but weaker Sain, or a somewhat better Lowen.

It's just not worth it at all

[BBM]

To be fair to Eliwood, Sain's STR is overkill when he doubles. A weaker but tankier Sain is, in places, a better Sain. Obviously he's not better than Sain overall, but to be like him for the last 7 chapters or so isn't shabby. And the RES lead he holds over Sain after promo is actually pretty large.

[General Banzai]

To be fair to Eliwood, Sain's STR is overkill when he doubles. A weaker but tankier Sain is, in places, a better Sain. Obviously he's not better than Sain overall, but to be like him for the last 7 chapters or so isn't shabby. And the RES lead he holds over Sain after promo is actually pretty large.

You might as well use Lowen for the like two situational uses you'd want a weaker but tankier Sain

[BBM]

Eliwood has around the same STR as Kent (base is 1 lower, but gets 1 more than Kent on promo and also has 5% more growth). His offence prior to promotion is mediocre, but post-promo, it's much better than you're making it out to be. +2 STR and lances help out a lot.

Note: I still would probably not recommend Eliwood for a first playthrough of HHM. However, most people here seem to be either vastly underrating him or overrating him.

[General Horace]

he can also rescue hector and stuff but that's irrelevant to most players

actually I think he can rescue everyone bar Merlinus in the game! I think he's also the only promoted unit that can do so.

Edited April 26, 2014 by General Horace

[intergalacticoh]

Well, Rath has the best promoted rescue at 17, I think. Either way, pally Eliwood still has good ferrying abilities except for that annoying 7 move.

Tier 1 Eliwood isn't bad. Eliwood's got 40 tasty charges of his rapier to use to tank against the hordes of cavaliers in the earlygame, and his fast Hector support grants additional Atk, Def, and avoid to help him do that. Eli is always a valuable unit for me on ch13x, ch14, ch15, ch17 and ch20, tanking cavs alongside Hector (thank god they use swords in ch20) and he does fairly well against the fliers in ch21 since they have shit atk with poison weapons. Eliwood does well/decently against axereavers and magic users in ch22. He's definitely not deployed in either Nabata chapter, but then he can go with Heath and Geitz to defend the Earth Seal village in FFO, taking out all the pirates blitzing the east side. If he's not lv20 by now, the western fort in ch25 will be a piece of cake for him to gain experience. He promotes next chapter and can then deal with the wyverns in the north with iron lances. I don't see why people overexaggerate his mediocre tier 1 performance. I'm not saying it's good, but it's not nearly as bad as everyone says.

Comparing Eliwood to Roy is unfair, IMO - Roy's game is much harder, and his promotion is a few chapters before the end of the game after which he doesn't gain lance access or a horse. Rapier only has 25 uses, and Roy is stuck dealing with OP wyverns and lance cavs much, much earlier than Eli. Roy and Eli both have nice affinities (though Roy's doesn't give Def), but Roy's support options are either mounts that leave him straggling behind or some really shitty magic users. Compare that to Hector, who matches Eliwood's pace and has great tier 1 combat. Roy's Res doesn't ever really cut it for magic enemies like Eliwood's can, but that's because FE6 has those stupid siegers and statusers in Ilia/Sacae that, really, nobody can deal with except for like Clarine and maybe Saul. Worst part is that you can't simply un-deploy him like you can with Eli in HHM for chapters like Genesis.

On paper, they are very similar. Their games are two totally different beasts, though.

Edited April 27, 2014 by intergalacticoh

[General Banzai]

Eliwood with Rapier is still not doing enough to Cavs even if they're the rare Sword-using Cavs

And Lance using Cavs just laugh at his pitiful attempts

I mean he's certainly better than Roy if for the sheer reason that he can promote at a slightly more reasonable time, but he isn't worth the effort you'd use to train him