Almost OC Mafia - Game Over

[FrostyFireMage]

My Shin vote was in no way influenced by GP's vote, FYI.

[CT075]

reads? uhhhhh

##vote refa

this is literally 100% on gut and i just want to throw this out here in case phase ends before i can do a more comprehensive reread

still think gp is town, leery of shin

[Bluedoom]

##Extension

My net died again yesterday so an extension would be nice. brb in a couple of hours

[charlie_]

sigh

24 hour extension granted

[Refa]

You've got to be kidding me. I had a post all ready to go and hrnghhhhh, this is so dumb. Why does my computer even have an inconveniently placed button that can freaking close whatever I'm on? Who thought it was a good idea to place it near the volume switch? Anyways, just summarizing what my post would've had before it became forever lost to the aethers of the internet.

(insert joke about inactives being towny as fuck here that I'm too lazy to remake)

@Cam Newb!Town generally acts that way from my experience.

@Euklyd How do I not have reads? Also your priority on me makes no sense because according to you, I'm scummy for not appearing super pro town (after Fakeclaim, I've never been super pro town again) and trying too hard to justify a last minute vote (how is that scummy?), which are pretty weak reasons for your second highest scumread.

Anyways, my top three scumreads are Shinori, Euklyd, and FFM. Specifically, Shinori > Euklyd > FFM.

An astute player might be thinking "what gives with your Shinori read, weren't you townreading him yesterday?" and they'd be correct. Then I reread. Not really bothered by his ED1 content, it was what made me feel better about him in the first place. Also weaker point here, but his "I'm scum. I kill peoples" comes across as a refuge in audacity (for some reason, I completely missed that post my first time around). I think his Junko vote was fine in and of itself (and I agreed with his reasoning myself), but I don't like how that's his only content; it bothers me more than Euklyd's D1 tunneling because whereas GP actually had a lot of content to comment on, Junko did not. Also I don't get his sudden FFM townread considering FFM has done fuck all this day. Also I don't get why he finds GP scummy, and him outright ignoring her later content while still calling her more likely scum than FFM strikes me as very opportunistic.

Speaking of people who have been tunneling all day every day, Euklyd's next. His GP case itself was fine on D1, so that's not the issue. It's just even when he speaks about other people (which he has done more than Shinori), I find it hard to tell how scummy he thinks they are. Like it's probably 10 levels of hypocritical for me to say this, but his comment on Cam early on gives me no indication to what alignment he thinks Cam actually is. His D2 GP case on the other hand I definitely disagree with. For one thing, he just sidnotes her townie as fuck post, while I feel like town would put more effort into explaining why he doesn't think it's that towny; Shinori does the same thing BTW. Not sure what to think of all of his reads being associative, I feel like it's pretty bad play but on the other hand I don't know why he'd do it as scum (especially after people called him out on it)? Did he do this in NSFMM4 (I had more important things to be paying attention too in that game, shut up)? Less bothered by him than Shinori because at least he addressed some of the stuff, even if it wasn't really as comprehensive as I would have liked.

Besides his ED1 content, I'm pretty cool with FFM's D1 play in general; honestly, I've already explained my D1 townread on him plenty so just check my ISO if you want to know. His D2 content though is just kind of bad, though. Like he voted Shin because all of his scumreads flipped town, but it's dumb because plenty of people were scumreading Junko and Poly, yet he hasn't called any of them out on it. He also comes out with a sudden BBM or Cam are scum, but doesn't really elaborate on it at all. OK, I'll fully admit that this read is due in part to PoE and interactions with Shinori, but it's still a good read so fight me. >:3

##Vote: Shinori

He's my numero uno scumread, but I would be totally down with a Euklyd lynch as well. I am scumreading FFM and thus will consolidate on him if necessary, but otherwise I'd prefer to lynch my top two scumreads who I feel much better about overall (whereas my FFM vote is admittedly weaker although it's still totally awesome). Also don't really get the Shin wagon, either he's doing an amazing job replicating his town play from Yume Nikki or he's town.

[Bluedoom]

I don't agree with Euklyd assuming BBM is town if GP flips town mostly because there are good reasons for BBscuM to have switched from GP to Junko, the most important one being his town meta is to drop his case on players who claim vanilla near the end of a phase when they're about to be lynched. Couple that with the fact that GP was effort posting towards the end of D1, and it'd be a bad idea for him to gun for GP's lynch anyway. The only thing I agree with is BBM/GP can't be buddies.

I have a null on BBM because I feel like his D1 play isn't very telling of his alignment since there are scum benefits to that vote shift BUT it could also come from hasty town too. His GP and FFM townreads are stuff I agree with, his Cam town read is weak so no comments there, but the Refa townread is something I disagree with because making effort posts on scumreads and tying yourself to mislynches should be taken as null IMO, at least in Refa's case. I mean he did the same as 3rd party in ICBINSFMM4 so why can't scum!Refa do it in this instance?

Euklyd's walls against GP are a pain to read and a lot of his content assumes GP is scum which is highly questionable play right there. His reasons for getting frustrated with the Junko wagon are good IMO, since what he's saying is he'd have preferred to lynch GP, his scumread who claimed vanilla, than Junko, the unclaimed doctor who was his 2ndary scumread.

CUT BY REFA POST.

On reading Refa's post, I agree that him sidestepping GP's readwall last phase is bad, but the rest of it is... the problem is a huge portion of this game is inactive so its hard to actually UNDERSTAND anyone's reads so I think that's an unfair part on Refa.

I'm gonna stop here because I've got stuff to do again.

[charlie_]

Votals 2.2

Shin (3): Green Poet, FFM, Bluedoom

Green Poet (1): Euklyd

FFM (1): Shin

Euklyd (1): BBM

Refa (1): Camtech

Shinori (1): Refa

Not Voting (1): Shinori

With 9 alive, it takes 3 to lynch and 6 to hammer. You have 24 hours left in the day.

[BBM]

Because as third party you don't actually know who's going to be a mislynch? You do as scum, and writing a case on someone who's going to get mislynched anyways 3 minutes before deadline is just not worth it.

And yeah obviously you want to lynch your #1 scumread over your #2 but complaining when your #2 scumread gets lynched is still not something people do. As for the claims, well, should we just not lynch people who don't claim?

[Shin]

The fact that Shin is picking FFM (literally the most lynchable player as either town or scum) to case, and saying nothing about anyone else, bothers me. He sees an easy target and he goes for it. He hasn't talked about anyone else at all today besides some FFM-GP interactions. Scummy.

Note that at the time, very little had actually been posted in D2. And the most lynchable player doesn't make sense. You've ignored my reasoning and based it solely upon the target of my vote. FFM's not adding anything at all to discussion, he's simply popping up, sheeping votes and making simplistic observations. His last two scum reads on Cam and BBM are basically a line each, making note of one thing they've done.

Cam, when you have the chance can you elaborate on that Refa read. I recall you having a deadline of sorts, which is mucho importante, but a gutread can only go so far, especially since you don't seem to have had a real opinion of him D1. My point about Cam's bizarre helpful-yet-not attitude still stands, but I feel that he's at least making some degree of effort with his logic.

Refa's early D1 was somewhat suspect, but his vote on Shinori confuses me slightly. Whilst the "refuge in audacity" thing doesn't clear someone as town, it definitely doesn't paint someone as scum. I might just be weird and stupid, but I've done similar stuff as town in the past. However, I do see that Shinori's not actually said anything directly about GP since the "not going to vote" thing, yet still holds GP as a scumread in his most recent posts.

[Refa]

Shin, who is scum?

[Green Poet]

Town can be right or wrong, because they don't know who is who. When they fight hard to save someone from a lynch, it means they thought someone was town. If they do something, there is not necessarily town benefit to doing so.

When SCUM fights hard to save someone from a lynch, it means there is scum benefit to doing so.

My case on you from yesterday still stands. The fact that Cocomon flipped town does not change that, because town can be wrong.

Fair point.

If Refa and FFM both flip town then I'm more likely to be wrong about you, because I really feel like scum played a part in the counterwagon.

But the same doesn't go for BBM?

IF GP flips town (not likely imo, buuut...), then my reads would probably look something along the lines of:

Town:

BBM has literally no reason to wagonhop from town to town as scum, and he's also got solid play. Solidly town.

There's a very good reason to; scum!BBM would know to trust my claim and then help redirect the lynch in order to increase the chances of lynching a town PR over a VT - just like how things actually played out. I'm not understanding your unconditional townread on him.

His whole thing with first yelling at us for not lynching GP and then admitting he did in fact find her scummy doesn't sit well with me. Okay, it was a turbolynch but if it was on someone you thought was still scummy, then why the yelling at the beginning?

I'm assuming you meant Junko?

I agree that it's odd why Euklyd would appear upset at Junko's lynch, since I'm pretty sure town!Euklyd would have willingly consolidated against his secondary scumread once it became clear that my lynch wasn't viable.

Refa's early D1 was somewhat suspect, but his vote on Shinori confuses me slightly. Whilst the "refuge in audacity" thing doesn't clear someone as town, it definitely doesn't paint someone as scum. I might just be weird and stupid, but I've done similar stuff as town in the past. However, I do see that Shinori's not actually said anything directly about GP since the "not going to vote" thing, yet still holds GP as a scumread in his most recent posts.

Isn't "refuge in audacity" referring to when Shinori sarcastically scumclaimed? Refa said it was a "weak point" and made Shinori appear slightly scummier; in any case, I don't see how claiming scum under any circumstances would help clear someone as town.

wrt bold - what's your own opinion on it? Is Shinori scummy for it or not?

My main issues with Shinori are how he's been appearing periodically in the thread to make note of things unrelated to his reads, which he still has yet to explain.

He's also not voting, despite having me at the top of his lynch priority.

[euklyd]

@Euklyd How do I not have reads? Also your priority on me makes no sense because according to you, I'm scummy for not appearing super pro town (after Fakeclaim, I've never been super pro town again) and trying too hard to justify a last minute vote (how is that scummy?), which are pretty weak reasons for your second highest scumread.

Which of your previous three posts today had reads? You've been around and reading the thread and hadn't made a single post for days.

[spoiler=Look I'll even quote them for you]

Poly was town whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.

This changes everything...No, no wait it doesn't. It would've if Poly posted more last phase, c'est la vie I guess. Anyways, going to make responses to stuff I missed last day due to being busy and/or asleep before I get the ball rolling today.

Fair enough, I've been having a hard time reading Cam this whole game, honestly. What I mean is that he's done a few objectively scummy things that I've already pointed out, but his overall play portrays him as someone who is actively scumhunting (and while I was bothered by his sudden GP townread, I wasn't sure if it would make sense as a scum play). LOL, you really couldn't see what part of Cam's play was better than Poly's? Cam was below Shin because I am nullreading Cam; I couldn't see any town intent from previous Shin posts, which is why he was higher than Cam.

When I say "well", I am implying that there's town intent there.

OH NO BRO

(also yes)

How is that scummy?

Reading is a thing.

Also everyone should list out the top three people they think are most likely scum while I'm parsing through yesterday's events.

Because if someone called them out on bad play, the expected response would be something along the lines of "Drats, I didn't know any better" or something to that effect, not "Maybe I would have known that if I had played more Mafia games".

Which of those had votes, for that matter?

Your justification of the Cocomon vote just felt really self-conscious. I'm not sure how to explain it better than that.

The "not appearing super protown" is something that serves to not mitigate your other scumminess, not something that makes you scummy on its own. Please don't twist my words.

Speaking of people who have been tunneling all day every day, Euklyd's next. His GP case itself was fine on D1, so that's not the issue. It's just even when he speaks about other people (which he has done more than Shinori), (1) I find it hard to tell how scummy he thinks they are. Like it's probably 10 levels of hypocritical for me to say this, but his comment on Cam early on gives me no indication to what alignment he thinks Cam actually is. His D2 GP case on the other hand I definitely disagree with. (2) For one thing, he just sidnotes her townie as fuck post, while I feel like town would put more effort into explaining why he doesn't think it's that towny; Shinori does the same thing BTW. (3) Not sure what to think of all of his reads being associative, I feel like it's pretty bad play but on the other hand I don't know why he'd do it as scum (especially after people called him out on it)? Did he do this in NSFMM4 (I had more important things to be paying attention too in that game, shut up)? Less bothered by him than Shinori because at least he addressed some of the stuff, even if it wasn't really as comprehensive as I would have liked.

(1) If I didn't say "(leaning) town" or "(leaning) scum" they're null. I didn't think I needed to spell that out.

(2) What sort of response do you want to this? I already said I don't think it's That Strong of a towntell. I gave an example of scum doing exactly the same thing.

(3) Please stop twisting things I say. My reads are not "all associative," and even when I made the two separate lists depending on GP's alignment they were not all associative.

Twisting things and selectively responding is not a townie's defense.

Also, your Shinori vote is...kinda weird. You're voting Shinori for playing like he always does, and he's even said he's ~super busy~. Like you're basically voting him for being inactive and not backing things up today, while you say nothing about Cam doing the same thing.

Your Shin townread is meta as fuck, and you had just been scumreading yesterday with no mention of where that went.

[euklyd]

oh there's another page hold on

[euklyd]

But the same doesn't go for BBM?

I already said that I think BBM is town. Him flipping town would change nothing because I'm already treating him as town.

There's a very good reason to; scum!BBM would know to trust my claim and then help redirect the lynch in order to increase the chances of lynching a town PR over a VT - just like how things actually played out. I'm not understanding your unconditional townread on him.

I...had not actually thought of that. It's a fair point, but I still don't really see scum scrambling to do so. So I guess BBM is not as LOCK CLEAR as I had thought, since there could be some scum intent. I still think he's town, though.

I agree that it's odd why Euklyd would appear upset at Junko's lynch, since I'm pretty sure town!Euklyd would have willingly consolidated against his secondary scumread once it became clear that my lynch wasn't viable.

Yes, I would have, however, when I had gone to bed your lynch was still viable. But, YES, my complaint was at least a bit hypocritical, I'll admit that. I was annoyed (still am, a bit), and probably overreacted a bit.

[Shinori]

Okay i can post!

[Shinori]

So I'm fine with a shin lynch. And the following is all in the assumption that shin is scum.

I feel gp and FFM are town. Cam's pretty null to me at the moment but probably leaning town. Marth is probably town.

Refa/BBM = targets to hunt through for remaining scum.

And if shin is town:

FFM/GP/Marf scum team for lulz. Or only two of those 3. BUT I DOUBT THAT.

Refa/BBM still looks good as a scum team.

I really don't like those two.

##Vote: Shin

If shin lynch don't go I say we lynch one of those two. Yeh I don't like those two.

[charlie_]

Votals 2.3

Shin (4): Green Poet, FFM, Bluedoom, Shinori (L-2!)

Green Poet (1): Euklyd

FFM (1): Shin

Euklyd (1): BBM

Refa (1): Camtech

Shinori (1): Refa

With 9 alive, it takes 3 to lynch and 6 to hammer. You have 9 hours left in the day.

Edited May 27, 2014 by SB.

[BBM]

lmao Shinori has said nothing bad about me or Shin the entire game and nothing about Refa since ED1, and this was supposed to be his post to make up for the fact that he hasn't posted any real content since halfway through D1? I'm like 95% sure Shinori is scum.

Shinori, if you are town:

Why did Junko become worse than GP on D1?

Why is GP now town to you?

Why are me, Refa, and Shin scum?

Anyways I never really got around to a full reread of Shin. >_> I think he's scum off PoE so I'm fine with the lynch I guess.

[Shin]

Isn't "refuge in audacity" referring to when Shinori sarcastically scumclaimed? Refa said it was a "weak point" and made Shinori appear slightly scummier; in any case, I don't see how claiming scum under any circumstances would help clear someone as town.

wrt bold - what's your own opinion on it? Is Shinori scummy for it or not?

My main issues with Shinori are how he's been appearing periodically in the thread to make note of things unrelated to his reads, which he still has yet to explain.

He's also not voting, despite having me at the top of his lynch priority.

Yes, what I was referring to was that both scum and town can do something ridiculous and a statement like that doesn't really indicate alignment. However, the vote on me was completely unnecessary and looks a lot like an attempt to secure the wagon.

My point about Shinori, which Refa had was that he had GP as his "top read" for ages without saying very much about GP other than "yeah, lynch GP". The current "yeah kill Shin looks pretty bad" and I doubt any of the anti-Shin elite train of choochoomania is going to even consider changing their vote. There;s also the fact that Shinori's alternate choices are totally unviable wagons, making neither very likely at all.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

Refa, currently FFM>GP>>>Shinori>>>>Cam. FFM and GP are both incredibly unlikely to happen without my lynch but Shinori's behaviour and "sure, Shin's scum" vote are all pretty bad.

[Shin]

Also it's like the middle of the night for all American players, gg Shin!

[charlie_]

Votals 2.4

Shin (4): Green Poet, FFM, Bluedoom, Shinori (L-2!)

Shinori (2): Refa, Shin

Green Poet (1): Euklyd

Euklyd (1): BBM

Refa (1): Camtech

With 9 alive, it takes 3 to lynch and 6 to hammer. You have 4 hours left in the day.

[charlie_]

Erm, the I posted there in the votals is horribly wrong.

There's just over two hours left now.

[Shinori]

lmao Shinori has said nothing bad about me or Shin the entire game and nothing about Refa since ED1, and this was supposed to be his post to make up for the fact that he hasn't posted any real content since halfway through D1? I'm like 95% sure Shinori is scum.

Shinori, if you are town:

Why did Junko become worse than GP on D1?

Why is GP now town to you?

Why are me, Refa, and Shin scum?

Anyways I never really got around to a full reread of Shin. >_> I think he's scum off PoE so I'm fine with the lynch I guess.

Junko was worse because as the day progressed I hated all of his posts and I just disliked everything that was happening around him and the fact the kept dodging my questions and other questions annoyed me.

As for current reads. If Shin is town I think it's entirely plausible that ffm/gp/marth have scum amongst them. One at least if not two. Since everyone elses votes are all over the place it's easily plausible that the scum team just piled their votes onto one other person to get a lynch going since like no one else is doing anything.

MY GP read being town is partially swaying on shin being scum.

Part of the reason as to why my scum reads are you guys at the moment is poe based on certain things. You guys really haven't been in the middle of stuff. For the past two days the game has had a lot of focus on FFM and GP and basically ignored a lot of other stuff which i just find really weird and bad.

[Green Poet]

As for current reads. If Shin is town I think it's entirely plausible that ffm/gp/marth have scum amongst them. One at least if not two. Since everyone elses votes are all over the place it's easily plausible that the scum team just piled their votes onto one other person to get a lynch going since like no one else is doing anything.

MY GP read being town is partially swaying on shin being scum.

You're talking as though town knows who town is.

Euklyd said it earlier - town can be wrong. As it stands, you're forming your scumreads based on a flip that hasn't happened yet, and even then you're assuming scum intent behind the mislynch without explaining what's scummy with the cases themselves, just that they could end up wrong.

[Shin]

Shinori, if you're considering the possibilites of me being town so much, I don't quite understand the vote on me. Your current read seems to be "GP is town, so Shin is scum" and from what you've posted, it doesn't seem that the case for GP being town is that great.

Since i'm probably boned, I implore people to look into my wagon, it smells worse than Horace's feet. I'd also like to say that Cam's not the third party if we have one, trust the SHIN.