Zero Suit Samus SSB4 design sexualized?

[Jackos]

I dont think Nintendo would go far enough with Samus as to add jiggle physics. The only time ive ever seen jiggle physics on a Nintendo game, it was third party.

Well there's Lyn's Sol Katti thing so technically there's a very minor precedent, but yeah I doubt they would since they already got flack a number of times due to the whole ZSS thing, no way they're wasting animation budget or time adding more fuel to that when they even went and gave the heels a somewhat viable reason to exist and I thank them for that since now they don't bother me like they somewhat did with Other M (and honestly the heels are the least of that game's problems, I should know since I stomached the whole thing).

Edited May 25, 2014 by Jackos

[Murdok Dracul]

I enjoyed Other M's story. Shoot me.

I agree almost entirely with what Loki said. (Also, I'm curious to see that picture that was edited out, but I guess if it's not suitable for the forum, then that's that.)

But to me, it looks like SSB4 Zero Suit is wearing a bit more makeup.

SSBB:

SSB4:

Yeah, I noticed that too. Seems to me like that should be more complained about than the awesome rocket heels, since it's purely cosmetic and not really suitable for a fight (though she does look nice). If I were the type to scream 'female objectification!', that'd be my trigger. But I'm not.

However unnecessarily aesthetically pleasing she is, it doesn't stop her from being a complete badass even in Other M. I shake my head and sigh a little when Anacybele (sorry :P) fangirls all over Ike, but there's nothing wrong with her doing so. Intelligent Systems gave him muscles and made him (subjectively) more physically attractive in Radiant Dawn, and is that something to complain about? Is he an object?

I've seen the comments on YouTube that OP was talking about, and they sadden me, because they're dismissing how cool she is to make over-the-top complaints and, I can only guess, make themselves feel holier than thou.

Okay, so the 'Bottle Ship' and the 'Baby's Cry' were a bit cringeworthy, but really, that's all.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Murdok Dracul

[Rehab]

I get that there's different fanservice triggers for different folks, but let's be real. If we were allowed to link to gelbooru, I think we could settle in seconds whether ZSS is more "objectified" than anything Ike has ever worn.

That's the snippy version, sorry. The less-snippy version is that skintight bodysuits are obviously different from dashing (if less than realistic) armor that happens to show enough muscle to grab the eyes.

And I have, to be sure, heard women complain not just that there's a lot of cheesecake fanservice for guys in stuff, but that there's less really comparable cheesecake fanservice for women in stuff.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Rehab

[Loki Laufeyson]

And I have, to be sure, heard women complain not just that there's a lot of cheesecake fanservice for guys in stuff, but that there's less really comparable cheesecake fanservice for women in stuff.

Media is (finally) taking notice that theres a female demographic for their products. So theres been baby steps in certain things (see Game of Thrones and the Marvel Cinematic Universe, especially the latter, for details) Games, sadly, are taking their goddamn time catching up. Luckily we do have games like Xenoblade which gives everyone their equal share of fanservice. We just need more like it. And before anyone whinges about FE13, there is definitely female aimed fanservice in that game. By the metric fuck ton.

[RJWalker]

Samus has been a sexualized character from the beginning. I'm more angry about the rocket boots. Seriously, those are not functional. She'd go spinning and crash, much like Iron Man in the first movie.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Ranger Jack Walker

[RJWalker]

Double post. Please delete.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Ranger Jack Walker

[Ein]

I'd rather have less fanservice overall than for some reason giving everyone an equal share of fanservice to use for who knows what.

[Florete]

Media is (finally) taking notice that theres a female demographic for their products. So theres been baby steps in certain things (see Game of Thrones and the Marvel Cinematic Universe, especially the latter, for details) Games, sadly, are taking their goddamn time catching up. Luckily we do have games like Xenoblade which gives everyone their equal share of fanservice. We just need more like it. And before anyone whinges about FE13, there is definitely female aimed fanservice in that game. By the metric fuck ton.

Not defending it, but it's not a surprise. Video games have always been a more male-dominated market than movies and television.

I would actually say that video games are starting to catch up, though. Female leads have become more common and choice in general has been expanded a lot to account for multiple demographics. If you're talking purely about fanservive, well, that's harder to handle.

[Faye]

I think the fact that there is a skin-tight-outfitted Samus in addition to Power Suit Samus is sexual fanservice. But that's just me being prudish, I suppose.

[Raven]

I couldn't care less, to be honest.

And if they do happen to jiggle in-game? Bonus points for ZSS.

[Roivann]

Can someone explain to me exactly how the heels are at all practical? From what I understand, running in heels is not the easiest of tasks, let alone fighting in them. Especially with ZSS's acrobatic fighting style. Also, in regards to the skintight suit: wouldn't it make sense? If you were wearing that armor, wouldn't you want to have as full a range of movement as possible? So long as the material is breathable, the less baggy clothing to get in the way, the better, right?

[Rehab]

I don't get the impression they're even pretending to try to look practical. For example, IIRC she has a recovery move that sends her up, when she's in the middle of an aerial flip that has the boots pointing up. (which I assume should send her crashing down into the abyss. though to be sure, I don't actually know what jet boot physics would look like in our world) (just probably not like that)

Basically, it looks to me like the design is trying to sell us on the heels being functional at all. The question of how she fights in them probably isn't intended to be any more complex than "we decided she can do that in this game." So those heels are in some way not our heels, Samus' anatomy is somehow not our anatomy, and/or physics in Smash is not our physics.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Rehab

[Florete]

People can jump in mid air. Of course Smash physics aren't our physics.

[PuffPuff]

People can jump in mid air. Of course Smash physics aren't our physics.

The fighting games of Smash are more like the moons gravity reality-wise.

[Master Awesome]

I think the fact that there is a skin-tight-outfitted Samus in addition to Power Suit Samus is sexual fanservice. But that's just me being prudish, I suppose.

That's exactly what I think. The fact that she's even a playable character seems to be completely fan-service.

I love Samus and all, but I don't think Zero Suit needed to be playable. They tried it in brawl, which was a nice little addition, and because of the incredible fan reactions, they went ahead and made her her own character. At this point, Nintendo seems to simply be hunting for the most popular contestants, regardless of their gaming status.

I don't think her design is sexualized at all. Just because she's a pretty blonde haired woman, doesn't mean she's sexualized. You could make arguments against Captain Falcon and Snake from brawl if you went by that. I just think her hyped up inclusion is solely based on sexualized fan-service.

[Raven]

The fighting games of Smash are more like the moons gravity reality-wise.

I don't think you can double jump on the moon, despite the low gravity.

[Florete]

That's exactly what I think. The fact that she's even a playable character seems to be completely fan-service.

I love Samus and all, but I don't think Zero Suit needed to be playable. They tried it in brawl, which was a nice little addition, and because of the incredible fan reactions, they went ahead and made her her own character. At this point, Nintendo seems to simply be hunting for the most popular contestants, regardless of their gaming status.

That's a completely unnecessarily negative way of looking at it. Metroid is one of Nintendo's bigger franchises, but it has an extremely limited pool of potential SSB candidates. It deserves more than one rep easily, and ZSS is an entirely reasonable choice (especially if we can consistently get two Links). "Fan reactions" didn't give her a separate slot, the decision to not have character transformations did, and she was considered a separate character in Brawl anyway.

By your logic, any pretty girl being playable would just constitute fanservice.

Super Smash Bros. is a series made of fanservice anyway.

[BrightBow]

That's a completely unnecessarily negative way of looking at it. Metroid is one of Nintendo's bigger franchises, but it has an extremely limited pool of potential SSB candidates. It deserves more than one rep easily, and ZSS is an entirely reasonable choice (especially if we can consistently get two Links). "Fan reactions" didn't give her a separate slot, the decision to not have character transformations did, and she was considered a separate character in Brawl anyway.

By your logic, any pretty girl being playable would just constitute fanservice.

Super Smash Bros. is a series made of fanservice anyway.

A extremly limited pool? I don't know. There is not just Ridley. There is also the entire selection of hunters in Metroid Prime: Hunters. Rundas in Prime 3 would also be a good choice. The list could be bigger but the series is still far away from having to express the same character in two entirely different fighters. Not to mention that having suitless Samus as a second Metroid representative in Smash is effectivle the same as Peter Parker being included in MvC over the likes of Venom. It still baffles me that this actually happened.

About the Links, Young Link was just a clone. He got in because he was comparitively easy to make. ZSS might be the same character but she is an entirely new fighter. She has no such excuse.

In addition to that, Young Link got a decent amount of playing time in OoT and an entire game for himself with MM. ZSS was only playable for a very short sequenze at the end of Zero Mission.

Toon Link has managed to become his own beast entirely. He featured in tons of games since his debut in Wind Waker and despite him technically being a different person every time, he is nevertheless consistently as expressive and goofy as the Wind Waker original.

Edited June 12, 2014 by BrightBow

[Florete]

One-off villains, and one-off characters in general, are terrible choices for playable characters. The only Metroid universe villain that would be a good choice for SSB is Ridley. And who else would they add, Adam Malkovich? Lol. SA-X/Dark Samus? No clones, thanks.

[Elieson]

Adam Malkovich? Lol. SA-X/Dark Samus? No clones, thanks.

Lol@Adam. There really isn't anything special about him to deem insert-worthy IMO.

SA-X/Dark Samus...Isn't Dark Samus already an alt-skin for Brawl? It'd be cool to have like Uber phazon powers, but they'd be essentially the same character.

[Master Awesome]

Well the whole double Link thing doesn't really compare to this at all. Young Link was an absurd addition and I still think Toon Link is a ridiculously unnecessary character.

And I still think ZSS is a result of fan service, much like many other characters (ROSALINA immediately comes to mind). True, Metroid is one of Nintendo's best franchises and deserves more than it has gotten, but I don't believe ZSS needed to be put in. I'll enjoy playin as her, but from a critical standpoint I disaprove of her character.

And no, my logic does not suggest every pretty playable woman is a result of fan service. Samus is already a main playable character and has always been. Just because a franchise is well off doesn't mean it needs five playable characters either. Metroid has never positioned itself to sponsor more than one character.

IMO, ZSS has been unnecessarily developed in the past few years. Though she is welcome, by no means should she share the same importance as power suit Samus.

[Rehab]

People can jump in mid air. Of course Smash physics aren't our physics.

We're agreeing, right

[BANRYU]

One-off villains, and one-off characters in general, are terrible choices for playable characters. The only Metroid universe villain that would be a good choice for SSB is Ridley. And who else would they add, Adam Malkovich? Lol. SA-X/Dark Samus? No clones, thanks.

This is exactly accurate. Ridley is hands-down the single, best, and only choice for a new Metroid rep in any given SSB not named Samus (excluding Dark Samus, who may be a distant second).

Literally no one other than those three (counting Samus/ZS as one) is a fitting choice for the game.

Wanna fight about it?

As for the topic at hand, I can kind of get the ZSS hate (though I think it's pretty ridiculous and people who are all upset over it need to settle the fuck down), but I honestly don't get peoples' problem with the other female characters. Why does it have to be about fanservice? Why does it have to be about how men view them? How do y'all know there aren't actual girls out there who actually want to play as strong, confident, capable girl characters like Rosalina and Palutena? I see nothing wrong with this.

The only thing remotely wrong with Samus' heels, IMO, is that they're impractical-- which is a BIT sexualized, yeah, but Rehab and Fox already talked about 'what physics?' So in the end, it's more about style than anything else. And as long as they look cool (which IMO they do), who cares?

You don't have to like it, but I completely fail to see how it's hurting anything.

Edited June 13, 2014 by BANRYU

[NoNameAtAll]

Are you people whining about Samus's Zero Suit despite the fact that this shit's gone on since Super Metroid? (Metroid 1's not nearly as bad about it).

Cripes. Personally, I don't care. She can still kick ass and at this stage, break games. That's all that matters to me.

[Florete]

And I still think ZSS is a result of fan service, much like many other characters (ROSALINA immediately comes to mind). True, Metroid is one of Nintendo's best franchises and deserves more than it has gotten, but I don't believe ZSS needed to be put in. I'll enjoy playin as her, but from a critical standpoint I disaprove of her character.

This sounds like a really toxic way to view things. Even Rosalina? It's pretty clear Nintendo cares about her considering how much they've been using her in Mario games since Galaxy. You said it doesn't, but this logic really does sound like any pretty woman as a playable character is fanservice (funny how you'd cite power suit Samus as a defense against that) since you don't seem to see any logic otherwise to adding them. Seriously, must I ask what you think of Palutena?

What do you think of Sheik? Sheik definitely doesn't have the image of a "pretty woman" and is even less relevant to her series than Zero Suit Samus, yet is still around. Is Sheik mere fanservice? What about Greninja, who has no particular relevance to Pokemon other than existing?

For some reason, I'm seeing the female characters come under scrutiny as "just fanservice" (and not from just you) despite characters like Greninja, Ness, Lucas (both only appeared in one game, Lucas' was even Japan-exclusive), Snake (third-party hardly relevant to Nintendo at all), and even arguably Jigglypuff (was really only in for popularity, not relevance) and Pac-Man (nostalgia fanservice) being in.

Is Zero Suit Samus hugely relevant to her series? No. But she has made appearances and is pretty important to Samus' image. That, combined with the severe lack of available Metroid reps, is more than enough to have her in.

(I know that at the end of the day every playable character can be considered fanservice, but the context of your post suggests more than the mere fanservice of SSB existing)

IMO, ZSS has been unnecessarily developed in the past few years. Though she is welcome, by no means should she share the same importance as power suit Samus.

Uh, how did you reach this conclusion at all? Because they both exist on the roster? Welp, I guess that means Ike is just as important as Mario if everyone on the roster shares equal importance with one another.

No, that's bullcrap. Samus was shown with the original SSB4 trailer. Zero Suit Samus wasn't shown until the SSB direct earlier this year. Obviously vanilla Samus is considered more important than ZS Samus.