Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia [Game Over]

[eclipse]

I WANT to say more about this, but a certain ongoing game prevents me from speaking about it (WRT Prims' post). Since I can't argue this further without ticking off Manix. . .

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

I saw you elsewhere, and I'd like a response to my post.

[Prims]

ftr I am not keeping up with the current ongoing game enough to apply it to my logic here.

[Elieson]

Sangyul's an IO, ya'll

[Elieson]

Terrador has been replaced by bladescape.

[bladescape]

Would do stuff but in class atm. I'll introduce myself and put forwards what I've garnered from my read through so far when I get home in a few hours.

[Elieson]

Elieson's "Welcome, a new player!" Votals

bladescape (3): Curly Brace, Green Poet, bladescape

Refa (3): Euklyd, kirsche, eclipse
Pascal (3): SB., Prims, BBM

Prims (1): Polydeuces
Euklyd (1): Refa
kirsche (1): Eury
Curly Brace (1): Pascal
SB (1): Shinori

Voteless (1): Da Bear

Day 1 ends in 47 hours and 15 minutes, which is at 2200 GMT-5 on 5/3/14 (11PM EST, 10PM CST on 6/3/14), or if a player reaches the daily hammer requirement of 8 votes before then.

[Grace]

eh. i haven't been in the best headspace the past few hours so that's why i haven't been posting

##Unvote

##Vote: FFM

gonna give bladescape some time to get stuff out.

[spoiler=not content related]it does actually irk me on a personal level that terrador would still sub out like that. like, having your cases attacked is part of mafia, alignment non-indicative. but if terrador wasn't enjoying himself, then i can't stop him. the reason to play mafia is to have fun as well, so i can't fault him too much

[FrostyFireMage]

Clipsey, what did you mean by "explain my thought process"? I thought I already did that.

[euklyd]

"Damn"

By which I mean fuck you, Mr. "Can I Joint With You Scumlords" SK who just propositioned me. Not interested in jointing with someone who's diametrically opposed to my wincon...even if I didn't think they were lying.

Initially I kinda assumed it was Prims from tone+language, but I feel like it's probably just someone trying to pretend to be Prims, since he apparently already used his first message shot and I don't think he'd use #2 as well for something like this at this time. Prims you have an admirer.

tbh I'm kind of insulted anyone thinks I'm that stupid.

In a totally unrelated matter, if you're telling the truth about being an SK who can joint with mafia, you should message me and leave your name so that we know not to nightkill you.

just got online and am re-reading the thread, this was a pleasant surprise really

[euklyd]

"Damn"

By which I mean fuck you, Mr. "Can I Joint With You Scumlords" SK who just propositioned me. Not interested in jointing with someone who's diametrically opposed to my wincon...even if I didn't think they were lying.

Initially I kinda assumed it was Prims from tone+language, but I feel like it's probably just someone trying to pretend to be Prims, since he apparently already used his first message shot and I don't think he'd use #2 as well for something like this at this time. Prims you have an admirer.

tbh I'm kind of insulted anyone thinks I'm that stupid.

In a totally unrelated matter, if you're telling the truth about being an SK who can joint with mafia, you should message me and leave your name so that we know not to nightkill you.

just got online and am re-reading the thread, this was a pleasant surprise really

Hm. This seems somewhat more angry than I intended. If I sound angry in this post it's nothing personal.

[Grace]

well that was a good use of one of my messages

huzzah reactions

euklyd, that reaction seems a little strong for the message tbh. let me think on it.

fwiw, i sent dual messages to both euklyd and refa bc i wanted to use them up and see what i could glean from it

(also apparently i can direct quote the messages so if you want me to verify, i'd be glad to)

[Grace]

actually in fact let's probe this a little more. euklyd you said there were 4 antitown players present in the game. what is your take on numbers (11/4 or 11/3/1 or 11/2/2) right now?

[Green Poet]

##Unvote

Got nothing to say on this slot until bladescape posts; welcome to SF mafia.

Now, moving on to stuff I didn't get to before:

Eclipse's post refuting Refa's reads is alright, but what strikes me as odd is how she refutes all of Refa's reads, without agreeing with or giving concessions to a single one. I would've called it tunnelly/scummy if she didn't have substantial reads on others, so "overly intent on picking out as much stuff wrong as possible with Refa" is the only way I can put it. Null read.

This post I really didn't like. Like I hated this post and would have voted if I was here at the point int ime.

I wouldn't really rolespec stuff like right at the moment. It doesn't really look that good. I kinda took this post as if you were fishing for a viable reason to vote BBM without looking bad.

This claim is really out of place even more so than the handful of other random claims we have had so far this game. Like can we stop that. Thanks.

I really dislike this random vote after he just spouted stuff off making it seemed like he disliked manix. Frankly I'm not liking Refa at the moment.

I dislike Refa but I feel like this post really is weak. He waffles on GP, spouts random rolespec about hated role(Most likely a joke but still), then he votes Refa without commenting on the other players.

Please no. No bussing theory. They would have zero reason to bus at this point in time in the game.

This post is just awful. I dislke this. Blah.

Okay now that most reread(for the most part) is done. I skimmed slightly over the last 2 pages or so. LETS GET THIS STARTED.

##Vote: SB

SB > FFM > Refa at the moment I'll post more to go over this in a bit.

Bolded is the one scumread I'm seeing in Shinori's post. The rest is "I don't like these posts" for reasons that aren't even given in some cases, and advice on what FFM should and shouldn't be doing. This doesn't tell us why he thinks people are scummy, just that he does.

The first quote he has a problem with is "I don't like this post by GP and would've voted her for it if I was there at the time." What's happened between then and now to make you not want to vote me? Why didn't you like the post? You're not explaining you're thought process here.

Why is FFM scum? You say you don't like his rolespec on BBM because it's a bad justification for a vote, but FFM isn't even voting BBM. He doesn't commit his vote to a read you think is bad, so how is that scummy?

##Vote: Shinori

[bladescape]

Just got home from class, so I'll start working on those reads.

Note, I will probably be doing a massivequote-take in spoilers, so I'll leave a TL;DR outside of the spoilers so those who don't like text-walls can get what I'm going for without having to slog through my endless rhetoric. Also going to be having coffee and catching up on other things like LCS (Pro-league for League of Legends for those of you that don't know.) so may be a little while. Will be done tonight though.

EDIT:

Oh, and thank you for the welcomes. : )

Edited June 2, 2014 by bladescape

[bladescape]

And I just realised I wasn't supposed to Edit... >> *Slides away quietly*

[euklyd]

How am I passive aggressive?

These:

If I was demotivated, I could have not posted at all and gotten less shit for it.

If you really felt that way, you should've left your vote on me considering I was at L-2. Maybe some idiot mayor would've quickhammered me.

read as passive-aggressive.

1) Why is it dumb?

2) I didn't say SB should wagon GP, I said that it made no sense for him to be so opposed to other people casing a null read (especially if the interactions could help improve his read).

3) Where?

1) Because nobody wants their OMG TOP SCUMREAD to be lynched 8 hours into D1 because ED1 reads are shit.

2) Scum should be lynched. If people are wagoning someone for a reason that I think is null, then FMPOV they're lynching someone who has random chances to be scum and that's dumb.

3) here and here. it's not ~a lot~ but it's more than nothing which is what you had been complaining about.

Minor thing:

Well, this is interesting.

I thought I was the handicapped role, but Elie answered some questions and I'm not as sure anymore.

Basically - being killed doesn't affect my capacity to continue furthering the town wincon, but by the same coin, it's close to a NL in practice and that may not be worth the potential loss of information. Whether or not this triggers is conditional as well, and I'm not told what conditions I need to fulfill.

I've never seen a role like this, so I'm asking the more experienced players to advise on how this should be handled, and whether or not offering myself up for an experimental lynch is worth the effective NL.

Why are you only talking about death by lynch?

actually in fact let's probe this a little more. euklyd you said there were 4 antitown players present in the game. what is your take on numbers (11/4 or 11/3/1 or 11/2/2) right now?

How should I know? My experience has generally been with 11/3/1 games but I could see 11/4 if the role distribution/power favored town. I don't think I've ever seen a 11/2/2 game. The info I have is literally "there are 4 non-town players" (paraphrased) and they were described as threats to the Gran Grimoire Clan; I have no info on numbers beyond that. I'm kinda assuming this info is just offered as a bonus to the rest of my role.

Terrador's post was shit, but the blowup seems like town to me (although I'm rather annoyed that there's a reason like THAT for a townread).

Refa why do you complain about Prims' reasons to vote FFM here and then list FFM as second in your lynch priority? Other than that his ISO stuff looks okay.

I need to re-read more I retained very little.

[euklyd]

Other than that his ISO stuff looks okay.

I lied: the SB thing is also lame. I feel like he's trying to defend his SB vote rather than actually finding SB scummy.

[Shinori]

##Unvote

Got nothing to say on this slot until bladescape posts; welcome to SF mafia.

Now, moving on to stuff I didn't get to before:

Eclipse's post refuting Refa's reads is alright, but what strikes me as odd is how she refutes all of Refa's reads, without agreeing with or giving concessions to a single one. I would've called it tunnelly/scummy if she didn't have substantial reads on others, so "overly intent on picking out as much stuff wrong as possible with Refa" is the only way I can put it. Null read.

Bolded is the one scumread I'm seeing in Shinori's post. The rest is "I don't like these posts" for reasons that aren't even given in some cases, and advice on what FFM should and shouldn't be doing. This doesn't tell us why he thinks people are scummy, just that he does.

The first quote he has a problem with is "I don't like this post by GP and would've voted her for it if I was there at the time." What's happened between then and now to make you not want to vote me? Why didn't you like the post? You're not explaining you're thought process here.

Why is FFM scum? You say you don't like his rolespec on BBM because it's a bad justification for a vote, but FFM isn't even voting BBM. He doesn't commit his vote to a read you think is bad, so how is that scummy?

##Vote: Shinori

I come here and im like reading stuff and I see this where you say "I only had the one scum read which you bolded." And then follow up with "Why is FFM scum?" I had the three scumreads at the time and all were stated.

I didn't like his rolespec on bbm because I don't like the rolespec on bbm. That's pretty fucking simple, you even stated it yourself. The fact that FFM isn't voting BBM has NOTHING to do with the fact that I don't like his role spec. Like are you serious GP? Those two don't have to be related at all whatsoever. I even stated this:

I kinda took this post as if you were fishing for a viable reason to vote BBM without looking bad.

LOOKING FOR A VIABLE REASON TO VOTE HIM. Thus throwing out some ideas getting some feedback and if it was okay he coulda voted him.

As for me not liking your first post: I just didn't like it. Not much reason. It didn't look good I didn't like it it felt wrong. Part of it was gut, I saw no real town intent behind the post.

Anyway I'm gonna go read a bit more and try to get a post or something out since I think like eclipse posted at me or something as well.

[Shinori]

There are a few things I'm not really liking in this game.

Posting styles and the way a few posts are being posted is making me shy away from doing stuff here. Also could be real lief related as well. I haven't entirely been doing stuff on my compie as much over the past few days but let's move on and try to get osme stuff done.

@Prims: SB could have commented on you for one. He said nothing about you which struck me as off.

But since my first content post and now with more reading and paying attention I'm gonna do this.

##Unvote:

I don't like FFM but I am feeling a bit better about Refa but still not the best. Poly needs to come back and post at some point in time. He's been gone for about 24 hours. Also bearclaw stating he has zero scumreads from his first read is bad but I will wait for him to come back.

@Euk: Could you clarify what your scumreads are? I look over your posts and I don't really see much outside of Refa posted there. I also feel like you are really doing much. Most of his posts don't have much actual scumhunting IMO. YEAH I KNOW POT AND KETTLE AND ALL THAT SHIT. Except he's actually been here.

SO LETS START WITH THIS. What are your scumreads Euk? Why have you been tunneling Refa so hard this game? I'd really like to know your other scum reads and who you would like to lynch outside of Refa.

##Vote: Euk

Euk > FFM > Inactive lurkers = Refa > Other people.

[eclipse]

Clipsey, what did you mean by "explain my thought process"? I thought I already did that.

This was my original question. This is an explanation of what bussing is, followed by what Manix did. How is what Manix did connected to your definition of bussing? Next up is the entire thing about Refa being scum often, which has nothing to do with the odds of Refa being scum NOW. What does luck have to do with anything? Then, this completely ignores situations like "well maybe the entire scum team is inactive" and then there's some stuff about OMGUS that I can't figure out the significance of.

Way to diffuse a reaction test. ;/ Since I'm the one with the vote on Refa and all, I would've really appreciated it if you kept quiet until he said something.

GP: If you decided that Prims was scum because his avatar was ugly, bearclaw was scum because he's fallen off the face of SF, and SB has to be town because his name is short, I'd call you out on every single one of those. When I disagree that heavily with a bunch of reads (see Terrador's wall post as another example), it means that the logic is That Bad. When I get the feeling that it's picking and choosing (for example, mentioning Prims without saying anything about Manix), that's when I suspect it.

Euklyd: I'd rather have a null read lynched than a town one. Given the nature of D1, I tend to have a lot of null reads.

Shinori: LOGIC. BEHIND. SB. VOTE. Oh, and BBM wants to talk to you, as well~!

[bladescape]

NOTE: I am ignoring meta discussions as despite reading prior games I still have a tenuous grasp on various player's metas.

Also I would like to apologise as to the person I replaced's way of exit, it's true that it's not my fault but I feel like no matter what happens the blow up will stick in peoples minds when they read me and it'll unfairly colour that. Thus apologies.

Now, to start I shall begin with my textwalls in a spoiler. *Inb4 I get the spoiler coding wrong.*

[spoiler=No Titans but we still have walls]So I'm actually going to just throw them all together and note each read/thought as the post comes. I'll put other notable stuff outside the spoiler that isn't involved in my reads.

3...2...1... START

Huh. Quotes work differently on this forum. Well I'll put the quotee above the quote then. Also only quoting posts that caught my eye. I didn't want to analyse every post in this thread.

Curly Brace:

actually #yolo going to do that half claim

i could see any messages you send or receive prims, using my Night Action
(or anyone else, for that matter)

Town points - Has no reason to reveal this role as a mafia and this sucks as a fake claim especially so early. Unlikely mafia.

BMM:

FIRSTLY

It's a good thing I didn't get an RVS wagon on me because I am Super Hated. This means that until *YLO, only half the required amount of votes are necessary to lynch me. That means that I get hammered at 4 votes right now, so please don't vote me unless you really really think I'm scum.

SECONDLY

There is someone in this game who has some sort of handicap, according to their flavour. Elie wouldn't say any more about it than that. I ask whoever this person is to message me ASAP with their identity. I don't think this is an unreasonable request because this doesn't require them to divulge any role information but helps me greatly.

Towny points - Also the person you're looking for is Doned. In real life he's stuck in a wheelchair.

Prims:

He's high-profile and posts a lot and likely to actually say something.

Manix's claim was pointless but the kind of pointless town does when they feel like being loose with info for god-knows-why. As scum he benefits from keeping the role a secret so he can eavesdrop on Townie Trust Meetings. Also I think scum-Manix would not attempt to pick fights with me over "tone" early on since he couldn't get me lynched and it'd just draw attention to him; however town-Manix reads me as scum every game. #MetaTheMostPowerful

##Unvote
##Vote: Green Poet

Above post sets her up to be suspicious of both me and Manix but she doesn't commit to anything. I think she's attempting to add fuel to the fire.

Euklyd sucks for ignoring my very strong Manix push when he dropped by to claim.

Towny points - I like this early pressure that Prims is trying to build here. Shifting around to find a target that sticks for any reason. Maybe I don't know Prims well enough but I really like it.

Green Poet:

This feels like you're going out of your way to defend a newly-made Prims townread?

I'd think that "also," implying that there's more to your aforementioned case, followed by words as few as these could not constitute your strongest reason for voting Prims. Prior to the post in which you voted, you hadn't mentioned tone at all, so how is the number of times "cult recruitment" was mentioned consequential?

Scum points - Okay, I'm not sure whether through inattention or through ignorance, but she is misrepresenting this 'Prims Townread' and is quibbling. Me no likey.

Euklyd:

Someone tell me how Green Poet's terrible forced case and lousy logic is any different than her normal town behavior - the sort of behavior I tunneled her for over the course of the entire game as scum in Almost OC.
pedit: Ninja'd by SB.

The only scumminess I see right now is probably the push on GP by players who should know better, but idk I might be on her as well if I hadn't just seen exactly that sort of play in my previous game(s).

And also Refa for existing. realtalk: Refa is saying a lot of nothing...but really so am I; I don't exactly have many reads of any strength at all. The SB vote is weird though.

BBM is more likely than not town because hated imo. Agreed with other people that Manix would have no reason to claim his role like that as scum. No idea about Prims.

Sidenote:

Marche is literally trying to destroy a world that borders on Paradise™ for his friends, and the lives of everyone living in it. Better question: Why would Ritz be hated? Also I'm the informed one, even if the info is shit.
[spoiler=Even sidier sidenote: I personally like Parrhesia's take on Marche being hated]Note: Belf = Marche.

Scum points - Reads minor lean on SB/Euklyd/GP team. Though the meta defense I won't read much into. The biggest issue for me is two things.

First, Hard defends GP and then quantifies it with a 'But idk I might be on her as well if I hadn't just seen exactly that sort of play in my previous game(s)'.

Second, Jumps on Refa, then admits doing the same thing. Handwaves with 'The SB vote is weird though'. (SB/Euk team lean is stronger than very minor Euk/GP team)

Sidenote:

Ritz fights the MCs multiple times during the course of the game, hence the hated tag. Marche, meanwhile, is basically the MC so yeah. Also he was proven right in the end anyhow.

Prim:

GP's claim isn't a scumclaim either.

##Unvote
##Vote: Refa

I had no expectations for the message, it was just for fun and if I could glean something from the results then all the better. You asking questions but not pursuing anything looks terrible, especially since I don't see your questions to me, Manix or GP leading anywhere when you don't have real opinions on any of us. Why was a SB prodvote better than putting your money where your mouth was and voting one of the people you questioned as pressure?

I'm willing to vote FFM for tagging along without doing anything too since he's evidently reading closely enough to ask for clarification.

eclipse: why point out the worst things Manix and I did if you don't actually find them scummy?
Euklyd: is Refa's SB vote a "scummy-weird"? What bugs you about it in particular? I think you're looking at everything on a surface level instead of trying to be inquisitive. I don't like how frequently your post states one thing only for you to say you just don't know.

Town points - There seems to be little bias in Prim's movements, and I do enjoy watching the interrogations.

Pascal:

##Unvote

##Vote: Manix

I'm beginning to think the exchange between Manix/Prims might be busing. Manix claiming part of his role may be an attempt to appear to be the most townie out of the two. Once GP got involved, they perhaps thought they could get her lynched.

Manix was the one who started the vote between the two so that's where my vote goes.

Also the whole "Refa is being half-assed because he keeps on rolling scum" meta sounds like grasping for straws.

Scum points - Refa/Pascal team lean. The misrepresented hard defense to dismiss all push on Refa and then... I don't need to repeat the dozen other questioning glances at this bussing idea thing. May not matter in reads, feels weak for scum. No real reason to do this.

Pascal:

you two seemed like you were trying to draw attention so that if one of you got lynched the other would look more like an asset to town

manix voted you for what looked like a joke post which looks kinda dicey

and what's the likelihood that Refa would roll scum again? I want to give him the benefit of a doubt for now, especially since it looks like there's a wagon forming

I also know enough about town GP that I know she has a tendency to get wrapped up in details and appear scummy as a result

Likelihood = the same as any other player. Chance is independent of previous results.

Townish lean - Refa/Pascal partner-y senses tingling, but this seems too stupidly blatant for wolves. Feels more like Masons/Partners/Lovers or some role of the same vein.

Pascal:

In retrospect Refa does seem pretty agitated but I'd like to see his next few posts before I declare him to be scum.

Scum lean - I really don't know what to make of Pascal. Seriously. But this is heading back the other direction. 180 turn on Refa but refuses to hard-call Refa as scum. I. Do. Not. Like. There is some connection between Refa/Pascal, 90% sure.

Eclipse:

That was a fast turnaround. ;/

However, I see Refa online, so he can respond to stuff. Don't like the fact that FFM isn't giving me answers to my questions other that "what's your read on Refa". They're important, darnit!

Scumish lean - This is very weak, but I really don't like this 'throw dirt but look innocent'-ish post. May just be cultural but it just feels off to me. I do like the attempt to push for explanations, but still.

SB:

If GP IS town, then we're definitely shooting ourselves in the foot. Considering the two most vocal players in the game were both attacking them at the time, I figured it was worth it to say something about it.

So why have you ignored the response once it was given?

So, err. No reasoning here. I just don't like this post. So noting it. Won't put a lean or points to it because again, purely instinctual dislike of it and I have no goddamn idea why.

Refa:

My questions towards you and GP were supposed help me sway my null reads one way or the other. While I was townreading Manix, his early vote seemed off to me and honestly I can see him claiming that role as scum (even though I think it's less likely that that's the case, see my past posts).

If you really felt that way, you should've left your vote on me considering I was at L-2. Maybe some idiot mayor would've quickhammered me.

Scumish lean - The tone here bothers me. The aggressive mayor comment at the end particularly. Tone reads shouldn't be taken too hard though, since it can be effected by things outside the game easily.

Pascal:

Bearclaw, Poly, Terrador, Shinori, Kirsche and Eury have barely posted if at all, so there's precious little to go on for them.

GP I've covered and BBM/Euk/Clipsey haven't done anything overtly scummy that requires mention.

I'm town, so that leaves Refa, Manix, Prims and SB. Prims' reason for voting Manix - "He's high-profile and posts a lot and likely to actually say something." - is a pretty flimsy reason, but it's so flimsy that it sounds like a joke. It feels like Manix voted him in retaliation and then jumped on the chance to vote GP afterwards in a possible attempt to avoid attention. If only one of them is scum I feel like it's more likely to be Manix.

Still waiting for more from Refa. Keeping his vote on SB after SB voted him feels a lot like OMGUS (on both sides, actually) and it feels like he's under pressure. SB is suspicious for the OMGUS-seeming response to Refa's vote.

Neutral - Because I dislike the random mentioning of people he doesn't talk about, I like his comments on Prims/Manix though, even though it's sorta recycled. And then I dislike once again his Refa read. All his reads on Refa and his comments on it feel off...

SB:

FFM's last post is a scumpost.

It's basically a listpost where most of the reads are null and the Manix/Prims reads are recycled, then his Refa "read" is that he is under pressure and it feels like he's OMGUSing despite the fact he voted first? How does that work? It feels like you're just throwing OMGUS and bussing around for no real reason.

Euklyd, FFM's logic is usually better than this. What are your other reads?

I both like AND dislike his throw at Pascal. I think I'm going to go with Townish Lean but I'm really tentative on that.

Refa:

Doing ISO's of all of the "active" players then lynch priority. Fuck PR's.

FFM- He's been active, but he hasn't done much (which isn't indicative of alignment for FFM). After RVS his first action is to come up with a forced scum read on BBM. His Manix vote is bad, but like why would he vote Manix of all people as scum? His defense of me is really forced (maybe for potential town cred?) before 180ing in the span of 2 posts. I don't see how his list post is scummier than his past content.

Scum points - The fact that Refa is defending Pascal after his 180 on him just rings off to me. I'd comment on the outright dismissal of the 'active but done shit all' comment but it's meta so I'll ignore it.

Refa:

Finally, that was the worst. Lynch priority is as follows:

Euklyd > FFM > SB > Prims > eclipse > GP

##Unvote

##Vote: Euklyd

I can literally do no more. Feel free to question me on my reads, but I'm not wasting any more time here for a while. I have to do like essays and eat pizza and play Fire Emblem.

Scum points - Defends Pascal an hour prior and then suddenly he's a big target? Wut?

Also, Euklyd and Refa are not partners.

Kirsche:

This is not how people work though. You can post because you think you have to and then the motivation and emotion can get sucked out of you post.

Also this feels very Ragey which happens to me a lot as demotivated scum. It made me do an ISO.

W.r.t. other people, FFM is bad and I don't think you need me reiterating everything again (at least, not for a second time). GP v Manix didn't really give me a lot of reads but I haven't read their posts properly. Eclipse/Euk is worth watching out for for reads Refa said, but Refa is still the scummiest in-thread atm imo.

##Vote: Refa

Town points - I can't see anything wrong with Kirsche right here, and I like the fact that one of the people who hadn't participated yet finally popped up. Also, the approach/analysis tastes good.

Shinori:

I really dislike this random vote after he just spouted stuff off making it seemed like he disliked manix. Frankly I'm not liking Refa at the moment.

I dislike Refa but I feel like this post really is weak. He waffles on GP, spouts random rolespec about hated role(Most likely a joke but still), then he votes Refa without commenting on the other players.

Okay now that most reread(for the most part) is done. I skimmed slightly over the last 2 pages or so. LETS GET THIS STARTED.

##Vote: SB

SB > FFM > Refa at the moment I'll post more to go over this in a bit.

Scum points - I really, really, really dislike this. Seems to focus on Refa, but then goes on SB for one weak post? Goes on about Refa, has Pascal in his responses but Refa still gets relegated to BEHIND those two? I'm sorry, but this just.. I don't like it. It makes no sense to me.

Eclipse:

BBM: I'm waiting for Shinori to explain himself first, since that was his first major post outside of his role. Also, I saw that "hated" thing as a bad rolespec - bad rolespec by itself isn't scummy, but when there's other things happening and rolespec is brought up instead, it's scummy (bad or otherwise).

GP: I think SB brought up Elie disliking Refa as a possibility (albeit a spurious one) to illustrate why FFM's logic was awful. As for Manix, I probably wouldn't have claimed right then and there, but that's because I really dislike claiming unless absolutely necessary. I can see why he'd do it as town, so I don't have a problem with it. Not really feeling Euklyd as a case ATM - the sense I get from his posts is that he's paying enough attention to know what's relevant, but is too tired to generate in-depth reads.

Scumish lean - I feel like Euk/Eclipse could be a possibility with interaction. Not a strong lean once again but Eclipse keeps pinging me with scummy leans. May just be playstyle... eh.

Eclipse:

Now, where was I before I went to bed?

This came right after I went to bed. Rather than do anything about Prims/Manix (which was the main event), I saw some comments with no reads, followed by a tangent to SB. That looks like you're trying to stay out of the spotlight. Also, if you hadn't posted, I'd still have you up there in scum reads along with "oh and Refa should be relevant as opposed to looking at the thread and leaving".

Meh. Don't really care about how anyone reads GP unless she becomes the sole wagon of D1 (which means that we'd be in danger of NLing on D1 with no one else, and that's lame).

And why can't any of the inactives be scum? Refa had posted quite a bit at this point. . .and you want more? Also, where's the answer to my questions?


. . .this is the first thing I don't like from SB (and not 'cause of grammar). It feels like a halfhearted response, which is completely unlike the SB I know and heart.


I pasted that into the address bar. Go me. ;/

I'm reading frustrated (otherwise known as "null"), which is why I'm ignoring his tone and going after content.

And now, time to pick on Refa's reads. I know being the center of everything is headache-inducing, but I'm pretty sure Elieson would throw a fit if I let someone off because they sound annoyed.

FFM - I got "shitty rolespec" out of the hated thing. What bugs me about FFM is how my questions regarding "explain your thought process" are being ignored.

SB - Scummiest thing I have on him is a sorta-weird passive post, and that's it. I don't see the rest of this.

ME - Hey, have some reference. I explained why I didn't like FFM at that point. Didn't see anyone else as worth a vote at that point. What I'm rather surprised you didn't point out was how Yours Truly and SB were posting the exact same things to FFM about a minute apart.

GP - That's a lot of "forced" you have in there.

Euklyd - It feels like you're finding excuses to call people scummy. He posted a lot of that earlier, so why is it a huge problem only now?

Prims - Why does Prims get a neat little gold star when Manix is left out, despite the fact that you had earlier issues with one of the latter's vote and claim?

Terrador for "least number of non-content posts for clipsey to poke at". Like, in the nearly two hours that you had between those two, you had nothing to say?

. . .and I think that's it. Would like Shinori's explanation that he's promised.

kirsche is scum if he celebrates his birthday by playing drunk mafia, along with everyone else who claims to have a productive life outside of SF

Fine with leaving my vote where it is. Though Refa is finally responding to the center of attention (in this case, himself), his recent content has done nothing to improve my read on him. FFM not explaining his thought process is also bad, and I won't object if he's lynched. Everyone else either needs to post more or isn't worth my vote ATM.

Townish lean - I actually like this post from Eclipse, first time I really do all game tho. I feel odd about the SB/Eclipse co-ordination but no reason for her to call attention to it if actually mafia.

Note: Quotes were taken as I found them and noted them so tone has changed as game went on.

There was something specific to SB I wanted to note but I've lost it.

TL;DR - I don't like Euklyd or Shinori the most

Tossing up between them.

Also:

So a quick read up didn't give me scumreads , which means ISOs and a more thorough read are in order. I'll be working on this later tonight.

I want to read this. I will be waiting.

General list of reads taken from the collection of quotes above, multiple reads collected together and worked out the feels to find where I feel like they go. If you want ANY explanation for the reads then you will have to read my quotewall, sorry.

Town:

Prims

BBM

Townish:

Kirsche

Manix

Eclipse

Neutral:

SB

Scumish:

Pascal

Refa

Green Poet

Scummeh:

Shinori

Euklyd

[bladescape]

Oh crap I got ninja'd multiple times while I spent so long doing that post. Gimme a moment. I was dumb and didn't check for new posts.

[Shinori]

This was my original question. This is an explanation of what bussing is, followed by what Manix did. How is what Manix did connected to your definition of bussing? Next up is the entire thing about Refa being scum often, which has nothing to do with the odds of Refa being scum NOW. What does luck have to do with anything? Then, this completely ignores situations like "well maybe the entire scum team is inactive" and then there's some stuff about OMGUS that I can't figure out the significance of.

Way to diffuse a reaction test. ;/ Since I'm the one with the vote on Refa and all, I would've really appreciated it if you kept quiet until he said something.

GP: If you decided that Prims was scum because his avatar was ugly, bearclaw was scum because he's fallen off the face of SF, and SB has to be town because his name is short, I'd call you out on every single one of those. When I disagree that heavily with a bunch of reads (see Terrador's wall post as another example), it means that the logic is That Bad. When I get the feeling that it's picking and choosing (for example, mentioning Prims without saying anything about Manix), that's when I suspect it.

Euklyd: I'd rather have a null read lynched than a town one. Given the nature of D1, I tend to have a lot of null reads.

Shinori: LOGIC. BEHIND. SB. VOTE. Oh, and BBM wants to talk to you, as well~!

KAY SEC.

[bladescape]

I don't like FFM but I am feeling a bit better about Refa but still not the best. Poly needs to come back and post at some point in time. He's been gone for about 24 hours. Also bearclaw stating he has zero scumreads from his first read is bad but I will wait for him to come back.

Curious as to why you feel better about Refa? Not an accusation I'm seriously curious.

[eclipse]

About the only thing I object to is the sheer amount of associative reads you've collected, despite no one flipping. For example, I've hard-defended Manix at least once. Does this mean we're buddies?

Also, in this post, I understand Euklyd's sentiment, BUT I can't say anything else about it, because it involves a game that's still running. You've done the best job of explaining why you don't like Euklyd, though when I view the same set of reasons, I see null instead of scum.