Why doesn't IS want to advertize FE13?

[Anacybele]

I think something that a lot of people forget about is that they need to consider Smash Bros. as a series in and of itself. Ike got back in because he was hugely popular among Smash Bros. players despite his games not selling the best.

This too, actually. I lost count of how many Ikes I faced online in random matches. xP

[Siuloir]

So? Little Mac is the same. Yet he's in the roster. Both of these scenarios indicate that sales don't matter to Sakurai. Besides, Ike and Little Mac ARE popular out west. Also, just because the sales weren't omg spectacular doesn't mean the games were bad or should be ignored.

No, I'm not saying I don't care about Japan. Nintendo STARTED in Japan, of course Japan needs to be cared about. That's why Sakurai puts in people like Marth and adds Japan-only content as well as localized. But that's really beside the point. The point is that sales is still a poor argument and I still think that the Tellius games could've sold much better than they did. Maybe they wouldn't beat or even equal Awakening's sales, but I really do think they're underrated and need another chance in the future.

They could have, but they didn't, even if I will sing the praises of both Tellius games from the mountains every day of the week. I love both games to death, but in the end, it's all about money.

No. This kind of obviously confrontational post is not acceptable.

Really, though, would they add a character to the roster just for the voice actor? I know Sugita is popular, but he can't be considered that important.

What Rey said. Voice actors are extremely well regarded, to celebrity-dom almost. Sugita is a massive name - He voiced -JoJo-. So, very possible.

[Alertcircuit]

The thing with Ike and Chrom is what kind of market Sakurai is attempting to target.

If he's going for the hardcore Fire Emblem fans, you go with Ike. Ike had two games, and has Awakening references.

But if you're going for the casual market (which a lot of people who play Smash are) you definitely want Chrom instead.

If you were to show an average fan of Nintendo games pictures of Marth, Ike, and Chrom and ask the fan who they are, I would say it's very likely that that person would look at Chrom and go "Oh he's from Fire Emblem!" If they played Awakening, then they would say the same to the picture of Marth. And then at the picture of Ike they would go "Oh that's the other sword guy from Smash Bros. I.. think he's probably from Fire Emblem too."

Despite Ike's multitude of appearances, Awakening sold a lot more, so Chrom is more iconic to a lot of FE fans as of recent.

And if Nintendo were smart they'd make PoR and RD available for download because Ike's games are underplayed and Tellius always needs more fans.

[Jave]

I edited to say "other FE games." I admit I messed up there, but PLEASE. Just fucking STOP IT. I'm sick of being accused of bias and shit every time I bring up valid points. Just because I love these games doesn't mean I don't know what I'm fucking talking about.

That actually makes your original statement worse.

[Anacybele]

And if Nintendo were smart they'd make PoR and RD available for download because Ike's games are underplayed and Tellius always needs more fans.

EXACTLY what I've been saying. And this came out of someone with Blazing Sword listed as their favorite FE. So you can't accuse this man of bias.

[The Geek]

And if Nintendo were smart they'd make PoR and RD available for download because Ike's games are underplayed and Tellius always needs more fans.

Yes please.

When I played the Tellius games, I had to borrow them from a friend, so I've only played them once each. I'd love to play them again, but they're the hardest FE games to find.

Edited June 2, 2014 by The Geek

[BrightBow]

The thing with Ike and Chrom is what kind of market Sakurai is attempting to target.

If he's going for the hardcore Fire Emblem fans, you go with Ike. Ike had two games, and has Awakening references.

I would assume it's the other way around since Ike has already been in Smash and therefore has by default reached a far wider and bigger audience then Chrom has so far. So Chrom would be somebody that only Fire Emblem players would care about.

Edited June 2, 2014 by BrightBow

[Constable Reggie]

Regardless of who's apparently the more iconic main FE character, I'm glad Ike made it back and massively prefer him over lolchrom. Chrom did his job starring in a Fire Emblem, he can now go rest with the other faded-to-obscurity lords like Roy and Ephraim.

[shadowofchaos]

Just fucking STOP IT. I'm sick of being accused of bias and shit every time I bring up valid points. Just because I love these games doesn't mean I don't know what I'm fucking talking about.

[/zen mode]

People have called you out on this before.

For someone who is very passionate about the games you love... you lack substance.

That is not meant as an insult. When you start discussion, there will be multiple points on everything.

If you haven't noticed on instances where people were "all ganging up on you" or "taking out the bias argument"... it's because you want to be the loudest voice in the thread. You want to be "qualified". If there's any indication of that, it's your post count in the SSB4 thread.

Whenever you say something, people don't call you out for being enthusiastic about it.

People call you out on it for being enthusiastic about it and not fully having knowledge about the subject.

You don't realize when you start contradicting yourself.

Or missing sarcasm.

This is an internet forum. People will rip you for that.

I have said this before, you don't notice the implications of what you say.

You just put your opinion out there and just expect "discussion" the way you want it to go.

You lose your "qualifications". You get left behind. And then you start thinking everyone's treating you badly.

The last thing is that you tend to bring up "you've improved" from when you first started posting in this forum.

Having progress is not a reason to stop progressing.

I'm just saddened that you didn't even take anything I've said in that thread someone started with a misunderstanding.

"Sakurai has good tastes picking Ike over Chrom" is a very blatant implication that you have posted already.

You don't speak for Sakurai any better than anyone here.

Edited June 2, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Skynstein]

I think something that a lot of people forget about is that they need to consider Smash Bros. as a series in and of itself. Ike got back in because he was hugely popular among Smash Bros. players despite his games not selling the best.

Congratulations, you won the thread.

I've never played SSB, but if Ike was fun to play as, and often picked by players because of it, then Ike becomes relevant to SSB itself regardless of his success with the FE series.

I mean, SSB features a lot of characters from agonizing Nintendo franchises (Star Fox, F-Zero) so Ike being in doesn't surprise me in the least.

[Anacybele]

I fail to see how "Ike had two games and Awakening references and a Brawl appearance" is an opinion. I was using this to back up my claim that Ike is more iconic to FE than Chrom is.

I also fail to see how "bundles and advertisement contribute to sales" is an opinion. I used that to back up the claim that certain factors contributed to Awakening's good sales, factors that the Tellius games, and other FE games for that matter, did not have.

[Tangerine]

Wow, took longer this time for someone to finally rip out the bias argument.

Anyway, sales do not indicate at all how good or bad a game is. The Super Mario Galaxy games are among the highest rated games of ALL TIME, yet didn't sell nearly as well as the NSMB series. Certain factors contribute to a game's sales, you know, regardless of the reviews. Games like NSMB, Awakening, and Wii Sports were bundled with consoles, thus they sold really well. Advertisement also plays an important role. Awakening had both of these things, the Tellius games had neither, pretty much.

I bet you if you swapped Awakening's scenario with Tellius's, meaning Awakening was released on GC or Wii with little advertisement and no bundle while Tellius gets on the 3DS with a bundle, you'd find that the latter sold better. A bundle isn't really a REQUIREMENT for good sales, but it does contribute a lot.

EDIT: I never said Ike was "better and more popular." I said he's more important and iconic to FE. There's a HUGE difference. :/

Games don't get bundled with consoles unless they're expected to sell or they have an agenda; it costs money to give games away for free, so the value has to be weighted against the risk of loss. Most big releases get console bundles because they're likely to sell the console. Awakening got a bundle because it was expected to move units, PoR and RD didn't get bundles because they were not.

MG and MG2 were bundled with consoles by the way, the games that sold really well in your examples (NSMB, Wii Sports) did so because the bundles were the the most commercially available purchase of the console at the time, and in Wii Sports' case you couldn't even get a Wii without it.

As for Ike vs Chrom, Ike is probably the more popular standalone character, but Awakening is far more popular than the Tellius series, and that's not simply because of the time it came out, its advertisement or happenstance. Awakening is a better game than PoR/RD and reviews/public opinion reflect this. There are no doubt fans who think otherwise, and a lot of SF even likes to hate on Awakening and its fans, but Awakening is the pinnacle of the series and it deserved every sale.

What Rey said. Voice actors are extremely well regarded, to celebrity-dom almost. Sugita is a massive name - He voiced -JoJo-. So, very possible.

Worst part is that Japanese VAs still get paid less than western ones, and they're more popular for their voicework in their home country.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Tangerine

[Alertcircuit]

I would assume it's the other way around since Ike has already been in Smash and therefore has by default reached a far wider and bigger audience then Chrom has so far. So Chrom would be somebody that only Fire Emblem players would care about.

That's a good point. As Bird Jesus said, Ike is now relevant to Smash Bros itself.

[Anacybele]

Awakening being better is down to opinion. But I won't argue that FE did deserve more sales and I'm glad Awakening sold really well. If it hadn't, well, FE would be gone now.

[Constable Reggie]

Games don't get bundled with consoles unless they're expected to sell or they have an agenda; it costs money to give games away for free, so the value has to be weighted against the risk of loss. Most big releases get console bundles because they're likely to sell the console. Awakening got a bundle because it was expected to move units, PoR and RD didn't get bundles because they were not.

This isn't what happened though. The Awakening bundle was more expensive than a regular 3ds, meaning they already factored its cost into the price. Not only that, the FEA that was bundled with it was digital, meaning, even if the bundle was the same price, it doesn't cost them anymore to manufacture, since digital copies cost close to nil to create, at least in comparison to physical ones. The only thing that might have to pay more for is the paint job, but that's unrelated to the significance of the game in relation to the bundle.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Constable Reggie

[Skynstein]

Awakening being better is down to opinion.

It sorta is, but also Awakening got way better reviews (I think it's the best rated in the series), so it could be said Awakening is the better game regardless of opinion.

I don't know why FE wasn't localized earlier than FE7. Probably because NoA thought there was no market for a TRPG.

[Anacybele]

But it's still an opinion. xP Me saying the Tellius games are better is still an opinion too.

[Florete]

A game in a series being better or worse is technically down to opinion. Reviewers are people, too, and there have been plenty of well-loved games that sold poorly. Awakening having great reviews and selling amazingly for an FE title, though, is a lot to argue against.

Radiant Dawn is my personal favorite title in the series, but even if it's not a fact that Awakening is the best in the series, it is a fact that it's the most successful in multiple ways and many consider it the best in the series.

[Tangerine]

This isn't what happened though. The Awakening bundle was more expensive than a regular 3ds, meaning they already factored its cost into the price. Not only that, the FEA that was bundled with it was digital, meaning, even if the bundle was the same price, it doesn't cost them anymore to manufacture, since digital copies cost close to nil to create, at least in comparison to physical ones. The only thing that might have to pay more for is the paint job, but that's unrelated to the significance of the game in relation to the bundle.

Ah, I didn't realize Awakening was one of those faux-bundles, lol. I know Gran Turismo 5 got a lot of crap when it was advertised as a "value bundle" when they just added the price onto the console sale. That's more in favor of Awakening though either way, all of its sales counted.

[Chocolate Kitty]

This isn't what happened though. The Awakening bundle was more expensive than a regular 3ds, meaning they already factored its cost into the price. Not only that, the FEA that was bundled with it was digital, meaning, even if the bundle was the same price, it doesn't cost them anymore to manufacture, since digital copies cost close to nil to create, at least in comparison to physical ones. The only thing that might have to pay more for is the paint job, but that's unrelated to the significance of the game in relation to the bundle.

I think you might be incorrect in that matter, since they still lose money in the end because it's a bundle.

A 3DS(with it's 2GB SD Card) in January 2013 was ~$170

FE13 when it came out I'm fairly certain was ~$39.99

A 4GB SD card is around ~$5

170 + 40 + 5 = $215 vs the $200 bundle without factoring taxes

I mean it's basically the same in the end, I was just bored and wanted to look up the prices...

fades away into the mist

Edited June 2, 2014 by Skitty of Time

[Anacybele]

True, and I'm not denying that Awakening did the best. I just think the Tellius series, and likely games like Thracia too, are underappreciated and underplayed because of the circumstances regarding their releases. These games definitely deserve more chances. It's not just them either, I'd love to see FE4 and FE6 localized too (FE6 would need improvements though, I hear that hit rates and growths and such suck in that game xP) and given another shot at good sales.

PoR and RD have good reviews and ratings too. And I'm sure some of those Japan-only titles got good reviews too.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[Constable Reggie]

MSRPs aren't used to calculate exactly what profits or gains they can make. Nintendo buying bulk SD cards is likely far, far, far cheaper than buying one retail for $5. Nintendo selling a digital copy to you directly means they don't have to split the game's cost with retail (they make MUCH more profit off digital copies from eShop than physical). Nintendo putting in a digital copy of FEA means they don't have to spend almost any manufacturing cost whatsoever.

They probably made much more profit from those bundles than from someone who bought a regular 3ds and a physical copy of FEA if you consider these things.

This isn't even considering the fact that you can't lend/trade/sell digital copies, meaning Nintendo wins even in the potential future sale category.

[Chocolate Kitty]

Er, I never said nintendo was buying these items at retail price; they probably bought all the SD cards(both 4 and 2GB) at the same time, so that is negligible on their end.

...I just forgot the rest of what I was going to say... But we're off topic to begin with. I'll go with you because I've never taken a business related class.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Skitty of Time

[Sunwoo]

At this point, I don't think I even like Ike anymore. Eliwood's my new favorite FE lord.

I just think the Tellius series, and likely games like Thracia too, are underappreciated and underplayed because of the circumstances regarding their releases.

I didn't realize you were a fan of Thracia.

[Skynstein]

I didn't realize you were a fan of Thracia.

I don't think she is, but she does know it's a SNES game released in 1999 in Japan only, which means it isn't exactly popular in the West.