British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[Darros]

sorry eclipse

[Sunwoo]

I'm on phone right now so can't really post content. But did literally everyone else stop caring about this game?

Step it up, town, inactivity doesn't help us one bit.

[j00]

Kay, what do you mean about Eury's reads being non-committal? She has loads of texts on Makaze, who she's actually voting, and comments on other players. I don't like her case on Makaze, but I don't even understand your reasons for voting her. From your posts it sounds like find Darros scummier than her, why are you even voting her?

Several people seem to have a gut tell on Kay being town, is this meta or something?

I don't like Makaze's style of play but I've already explained why I don't think he's mafia, and the D1 Paper lynch wouldn't have happened if not for his interactions with Boron and Prims. Lynching the joat of a 3-man scumteam D1 isn't really worth it just for the towncred.

Boron: You break down Cam's read on you and your case on him sounds a lot more convincing than your case on Psych, why do you still prefer to lynch Psych today over Cam?

Darros, what are your thoughts on posts after you left? You come back to answer questions directed at you, and say "I think X is townie/scummy" but you don't seem to bother about the content of the last few pages. You spend a lot of time on a case on Makaze, with a few comments on others like Prims, but your review of other players is a bit lackluster and in general I don't feel like you're scumhunting, just tunneling Makaze.

Most of Psych's antics are what I'd call Psych Moments, except his vote on Cam feels like "oh look another wagon than me" and he's done no scumhunting at all this phase. I'd prefer him or Darros lynched today.

##Unvote

##Vote: Psych

Psych, at least come back and back up your Cam vote if you're not going to defend yourself

[j00]

About Boron's case on Cam being more convincing than her case on Psych, I mean that she has a lot more to say about why Cam is bad than Psych. His "well what am I supposed to do about that" attitude is grating but then he goes on and posts a lot of stuff on people. My only problem with him is that most of the people he comments a lot on has the verdict null/townish, so he comes off as waffly.

[BBM]

[spoiler=flashy gifs]

[Sunwoo]

I think my case on Cam seems more convincing because he has actual stuff I can respond to and call him out on. Psych seems to have stopped caring entirely and has no real recent reads.

I kind of feel that Psych dodging the game is worse than Cam (who at least isn't outright avoiding the game), but they are both scummy and I'd support Cam lynch.

Still on phone.

[Darros]

Darros, what are your thoughts on posts after you left? You come back to answer questions directed at you, and say "I think X is townie/scummy" but you don't seem to bother about the content of the last few pages. You spend a lot of time on a case on Makaze, with a few comments on others like Prims, but your review of other players is a bit lackluster and in general I don't feel like you're scumhunting, just tunneling Makaze.

Page 22: Makaze/Cam slapfight and Psych not defending as usual.

actually i hate this psych wagon i feel like he's doing stupid things and you guys are piling on him because he's easy. i guess he could still be scum though

This post feels slightly weird and noncommital. Psych's actions are terrible yes but I don't think people are piling on him just because he's "easy". Plays like this have scum potential behind them!

Eury, I think Prims' issue with you wanting to vote a suspected ITP over suspected scum is that ITPs are just so much harder to find. How are you so confident that this guy will flip ITP to the point that you'd rather rid the suspected ITP over suspected scum?

Like, even though I have reason to suspect Makaze as ITP, there's really no real way you can "catch" him off interactions with other players, and if there's someone I actually suspect as scum it's worth trying to scum (which you can catch with interactions) than ITP (who you usually can't).

The way I look at it is they're both hostile, as you implied. So it doesn't matter if the person lynched is scum or ITP. ITP lynched over scum is fine because like Eury said, we're down to one kill a night. But, scum lynched isn't bad either. No townie would be upset about that. If Makaze is suspected ITP, he's suspected to be hostile, which is what we want to lynch anyway.

Page 24: Cam seems really okay with lynching liabilities instead of scumhunting. He's mentioned about Psych and FFM that he would lynch them just because they're liabilities later on. Sounds like he wouldn't mind a purposeful mislynch..

Well the comment about makaze acting weird compared to Training was waved off with "But whatever" because it's the only game I've ever seen by him and as far as I know it was his first forum mafia game.

I can't know a meta or judge how a person will act in certain situations based off of one game. Thus him acting differently is null and void. Sure you can use it for some base reads but it really can't be used as concrete evidence for someone being scum, ITP or town.

I don't think anyone ever conclusively decided Makaze was ITP based off solely meta. You can never use meta as concrete evidence anyway.

What do you think about Prims or Cam or Darros? Or even FFM from D1 stuff? Is Eury your only scum read right now or just the best?

Seems like a leading question to me. If you're asking Kay for her other scumreads do it explicitly, that's just looking like you want her to say "one ((or more)) of them is scum"

Sorry, I walked to the store.

Cam's attitude rubs me the wrong way and I don't like how much he's ignoring things, but I felt the same way last night considering I had like a migraine and just couldn't do anything after like 11.

1) Honestly two sentences doesn't cut it. Why don't you like Cam? Show what posts are making you feel like he's scummy. Even though you placed a vote this doesn't seem strong at all to me, it's just saying "oh this guy could be scum maybe"

2) Feel better.

Darros is still scummy for his D1 AtE defensiveness, I totally forgot he was playing.

I even replied to this earlier oops work kills me. I didn't AtE D1??????

@cam; I meant your "sell me on paper" and not returning. It was a way to avoid either getting on Paper's wagon or opposing it.

He already said he wasn't around.

I'm on phone right now so can't really post content. But did literally everyone else stop caring about this game?

Step it up, town, inactivity doesn't help us one bit.

hey i posted four times in a row five would be overkill

@Me tunneling Makaze: It's not really intentional but RED FLAGS have come up multiple times with Makaze and I'm convinced he's a hostile party. I have said things about Psych too, who could very well be scum, and it's hard to come up with reads on other players when they aren't really playing when I'm on. There were only like 5 people in the thread at the time of me posting two nights ago. And yeah the post earlier today barely mentioned Makaze so I wouldn't call that tunneling?

[Baldrick]

Haven't read Darros' last post yet.

@Cam: Whats even the point of doing a whole game listwall if you dont even analyse several of them?

doesn't go anywhere with the answer

He interrogates Makaze once he answers, and obviously decides its not vote-worthy.

never follows up

He did, in literally his next post. You linked it and said who is he talking to?. The fact you couldnt put two and two together suggests youre not putting in any real effort or thought into this ISO analysis.

random questions,

I disagree, they look like reasonable questions to investigate what paper and makaze are saying. Do you have a problem with the reasoning he gave for his FFM vote?

@Darros

Bold: In that case, what do you think of his D2?

Italic: Maybe I was influenced about your fairness talk, but I felt like what you said was kicking someone when theyre down.

Underline: Over the top. Your reaction is the kind of way scum react when something good happens for them and they want to make sure they dont under-react. Psychs role is not particularly valuable, and his softclaiming indicated as such so his full claim isnt actually that bad.

But was it really that serious? Weve established Makaze is misusing confirmed scum and you have said he shouldnt have been so sold on Psych, so your use of it when the situation is not that serious is bad. It suggests a 1v1, and in that case it is most definitely necessary to claim.

How was bladescape waffly? He had a slight suspicion on you, but thought the RVS interaction with Paper meant you were likely town. When the latter point was debunked, he was null leaning scum on you. (I assume that is scumish tier)

@Boron; Psych not being here at all is bad, but Cam being here and posting mostly useless walls instead of addressing the cases against him feels even worse to me. It is similar to the difference between not posting and active lurking.

[CT075]

idr know what you want me to say in defense since the arguments are pretty valid? may as well dump out what i have now

[Darros]

@Darros

Bold: In that case, what do you think of his D2?

Italic: Maybe I was influenced about your fairness talk, but I felt like what you said was kicking someone when theyre down.

Underline: Over the top. Your reaction is the kind of way scum react when something good happens for them and they want to make sure they dont under-react. Psychs role is not particularly valuable, and his softclaiming indicated as such so his full claim isnt actually that bad.

But was it really that serious? Weve established Makaze is misusing confirmed scum and you have said he shouldnt have been so sold on Psych, so your use of it when the situation is not that serious is bad. It suggests a 1v1, and in that case it is most definitely necessary to claim.

How was bladescape waffly? He had a slight suspicion on you, but thought the RVS interaction with Paper meant you were likely town. When the latter point was debunked, he was null leaning scum on you. (I assume that is scumish tier)

Bold: what day 2

I asked him a question which he never expounded on. He hasn't made very many points, really, just placed a vote on Cam, said why, and left. I'm still feeling overall neutral on him though, but that might be because he's posted basically nothing today.

Underline: It's still bad. Claims out in the open are bad. And I know he shouldn't of been so sold on Psych but it's how he feels not me. Makaze said it first, I was just relaying it to Psych, who didn't seem interested in defense. And still doesn't seem interested in defense. Also your link is broken.

Bladescape is doing this thing where he appears every half phase and changes his opinion on me. He thought I was scum D1, then town early D2, and slight scum now, late D2. It seems inconsistent.

[Psych]

i haven't been able to defend myself because what, there's like nothing I can really say? like I still think people are just focusing me cause I'm an easy lynch and yeah I haven't exactly been scum hunting well but idk it's not like i'm suddenly going to figure out how to turn that around so I don't really have anything to say

I think cam is a better lynch than me though because the things he's doing aren't helping the town whereas i've been trying and yet can't really change anyone's mind so idk

[Baldrick]

Where have all the apostrophes gone?

@Darros-557

That's actually a fair point about Prims and the Psych wagon. He doesn't seem to have any reads apart from cam.

About cam not being around; If he wasn't going to be around, he should have given an opinion on paper.

@Cam; if you don't know what to say in defence, answer my questions.

@Darros-560

Bold: It seems then his effort post was a one-off thing. The only reason you weren't scumreading him was because he was going to be a more active contributor. Why have you lost interest in him?

Underline: How does knowing Psych's role help scum? It sounds like you're adhering to the rule "claiming unnecessarily is bad!" without thinking about why that is.

By relaying it and using it to apply pressure, you're implicitly saying you agree with it.

Fixed link

@Psych; scumhunt

[Darros]

I guess it's kind of hard to keep someone not around in the active mind. I just remember FFM being more null and then him disappearing didn't really process fully. It's hard to keep interest on someone not here. Hence why no one talked about bladescape/Kay beyond "you should post". Kay is still in that sort of situation. I've seen nothing with regards to her simply because there's nothing to read about her.

Knowing Psych's role either gives scum a target ((if psych was acting townie enough to try to be obvtown)) or one less person to shoot because he's looking scummy, provided he is actually town. And I didn't mean to imply I agreed with Psych being obvscum, but I do think he's scummy and wanted him to defend himself. It didn't work.

[Sunwoo]

i haven't been able to defend myself because what, there's like nothing I can really say? like I still think people are just focusing me cause I'm an easy lynch and yeah I haven't exactly been scum hunting well but idk it's not like i'm suddenly going to figure out how to turn that around so I don't really have anything to say

I think cam is a better lynch than me though because the things he's doing aren't helping the town whereas i've been trying and yet can't really change anyone's mind so idk

I am less interested in your defense than your scum hunting.

Psych, it's not so much that you haven't "defended" yourself but that you've been dodging key events and questions. You're not trying to contribute to the game or offer your thoughts or anything. It looks like you're literally trying to coast on by without doing anything, which doesn't benefit town and is what scum would want to do. Your defense being "I can't suddenly turn it around" is not helpful. Are ALL people focusing on you trying to look for an "easy" vote? Is there anyone on your wagon you find particularly worse?

If Cam's a better lynch than you, then why aren't you pushing him? If you really don't want to be lynched over him, "idk" doesn't belong anywhere in that post.

Probably going to spend time looking over Cam and Psych again to see who I feel is worse. (They're both terrible though >:/)

[Darros]

i haven't been able to defend myself because what, there's like nothing I can really say? like I still think people are just focusing me cause I'm an easy lynch and yeah I haven't exactly been scum hunting well but idk it's not like i'm suddenly going to figure out how to turn that around so I don't really have anything to say

I think cam is a better lynch than me though because the things he's doing aren't helping the town whereas i've been trying and yet can't really change anyone's mind so idk

There are people making valid points against you which you're ignoring. Address them instead of going "oh well im easy and their reasons suck". The only one making this an easy lynch is you. And you can scumhunt, read the thread, find things that look notable or off, state them. Scumhunting isn't really that hard. Unless you're scum.

[Darros]

Psych (5): Boron, Shinori, bladescape, Makaze, j00

Cam (3): FFM, Prims, Psych

Makaze (2): Darros, Eury

Darros (1): Baldrick

Eury (1): Kay

Junko (1): Cam

Current Votals.

I'm really considering switching to Psych. I don't feel comfortable with Makaze at all, but Psych is looking worse and worse as we go on, and I think he really could be scum. Putting Psych at L-2 might not be the best idea either though.

[Sunwoo]

We still have time to think, and there's still time for other people to come back and make an updated reads post. I think Psych might already be at "deadline lynch threshold".

[Darros]

It's 5 to lynch and 8 to hammer, so yes. There's still a full day, so I think leaving at this is still fine. I still think Makaze is scum so I'm cool leaving my vote where it is.

[Prims]

Psych, what do you think of the other potential suspects today, such as Baldrick, Makaze, Eury and Darros?

My opinion on Cam's readposts at this point is just "inconsistent effort" which is about what I'd expect from him. I agree with j00 that for the first half of D2 it seemed like Darros was just tunneling Makaze with some noncommittal side snips at people (me) and not doing much else. Also second the request for people to explain their gut town-reads on Kay. I didn't like her only post D1 and I think that even though she's skimming her explanations for her reads are buzzwords (eg: Eury being "noncommittal", Darros having "AtE defensiveness") and I'd appreciate her citing actual examples of this behavior.

I don't necessarily think Psych is scum, but I have a hard time objecting to his lynch just because of how little he's doing. Would really like another flip or two or three (or four?) to work with; feel like I'm just glazing over everybody's posts this game.

I am very irritated that FFM seems to have stopped caring entirely now that the spotlight is off him. Some of what Makaze has said today has been bugging me, which has me wondering if he and Paper just had really good distancing D1. @Makaze: Why is Psych "confirmed scum" off a silly claim (which town can do too) and not voting Paperblade? I can understand why you'd find him scummy, but "confirmed scum" is a lot of conviction when there were a bunch of other players who did not vote Paper on D1. Also, if you understand that his softclaim was pointless, why did you prod him to out further info? the way you've been pushing him doesn't add up at all.

[Sunwoo]

FFM needs more than a prod at this point. The mods need to beat him over the head with a really big stick. Makaze disappearing entirely is also weird, considering how active he was on D1/early D2.

Prims, your vote is still on Cam so is he still your most preferred lynch? What exactly about Psych's actions (or lack thereof) make you think he's not scum?

I don't have a problem with j00's actual content, but she just seems to lack presence in this game and that makes my read on her kind of weak. Prims, you're the same. I don't have an issue with what you do when you're here, but you're rarely here to do it. Kay is more null than anything else because she has three (maybe four?) posts and she doesn't go into depth on her reads or really push them. Still have a bit of a negative feeling about bladescape.

[Psych]

honestly boron is the only one on my wagon that i feel isn't sheeping me

@Psyche again

Don't spout BS on me saying I flipped my vote late and iddn't explain why when I was gone for most of the day then specifically said I preferred other people > Paperblade but was fine voting him for consolidation. Seriously.

##Vote: Psych

shinori and j00 have been so intermittent and lurky that I feel they're trying to gain towncred by voting me, shinori also being a huge OMGUS

makaze is just deadlocked on my lynch which i don't like since it seems like he's tunneling me and bladescape wasn't even around for day 1 so it seems like he's just trying to join the easy lynch for the day and wipe away day 1

makaze has been acting really weird and just focusing on my actions and kind of ignoring everyone else, while at the same time not necessarily helping town what with my claim and the way he wanted info out of me

sure

i think that elie and bbm are definitely town

##vote psych

was that helpful?

##unvote

why even ask me "what are your reads", i can just spew those out easily

now, is there anything in particular you would like me to talk about? i'll give my thoughts as i read it

honestly I don't think cam's that scummy, I feel like he's acting like how paper was and it felt to me that it was just coincidence that paper was scum, yes i don't like his attitude or his contribution or lack there of but idk i feel like he leans more itp to me than scum

people know i usually soft claim or crumb a lot so there shouldn't be anything weird about that

i also think if i'm not lynched i'm probably just going to be left alive for an easy mislynch later if we get down to like mylo or something so idk just a thought that came to me

As others have said, NO. Sorry, but I'm feeling better about my vote every time you post.

Okay. I can get how it's anti-town to ask for the role itself.

But if you can forgive that mistake, the more important questions are still unanswered... The ones we actually need, I mean. Which is also suspicious.

Why soft claim? Not answered. How could the role have been proven? Not answered.

But they went ahead and answered with which role it was... Why would they soft claim and then full claim without reason? I don't feel any better about it than I did before I asked.

Okay... So the soft claim they made was not suspicious at all?

Wouldn't they only profit from such a soft claim if they were scum?

Please elaborate.

What role do you have?

How could you have proven it?

Why did you mention that you were a role when said role can still confirm you town and get you killed? How did claiming that you had a role profit town enough that your inevitable death wouldn't matter?

makaze's posts make me really uncomfortable, like i can't put my finger on it

he also focused really heavily on the SK/ITP line of conversation before it looked like i could be lynched today, making me feel like he's scum worried about a potential serial killer messing up his plans before deciding to go for an easy lynch

also while i've felt good about boron so far

MAKAZE NO.

Psych, what are your reads? Why are you sort-of-claiming-but-not-really? Why did you try to push FFM over Paper yesterday? Does it really matter what your role is? Can you talk about something else and tell us who you actually suspect?

at the time I read this, it made me feel like he was just trying to stop digging himself a hole, reading back while i was looking for makaze quotes makes me feel like this was a potential way of him getting his scum buddy to shut up

but other than that i'm reading boron as town

[Darros]

Makaze disappearing entirely is also weird, considering how active he was on D1/early D2.

He said he wasn't going to be here when he dropped his vote on Cam. Holiday!

[Psych]

it made me feel like [boron] was just trying to stop [Makaze from] digging himself a hole

clarified

[Prims]

Cam is still my preferred lynch for the D1 interactions with Paper, yeah.

I've been struggling to form a decent read in either direction on Psych today, which is why I don't mind him going despite not heavily scumreading him. I think Cam's treatment of Paper fits the profile of a buddy more than Psych's does.

@j00: why switch to Psych over Darros? You've been pushing Darros for most of the day and moving your vote kills his wagon. Is Psych scummier to you now?

[Sunwoo]

i also think if i'm not lynched i'm probably just going to be left alive for an easy mislynch later if we get down to like mylo or something so idk just a thought that came to me

Psych, that's a defeatist attitude, not cool =/ If you really think you're going to left alive for an easy mislynch, then you should be participating and contributing harder. Town would rather not mislynch a townie, no matter how badly they're playing, over scum.

at the time I read this, it made me feel like he was just trying to stop digging himself a hole, reading back while i was looking for makaze quotes makes me feel like this was a potential way of him getting his scum buddy to shut up

I didn't like Makaze asking you to claim and I felt that he was role fishing, so I told him to shut up.