British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[Eurykins]

Firstly, your reads on me are gut reads. You are trying to figure out my role from my mental state alone; the only tell you have is that my behavior is 'strange'. It goes without saying that interpretations of my attitude are subjective and therefore gut reads.

On the last bits, I have more than one problem.

4. If your role is useful, especially in hunting me, it would be helpful for you to divulge info about my role. For example, if you were a watcher you might have watched me last night or the night before and then we could get somewhere because you would know that I had not visited anyone and yet people still ended up dead. If you have one of these useful roles and did not investigate me, that raises questions of its own.

Last time someone soft claimed due to a wagon on them, they flipped scum. Why should we believe you are any different?

5. If you have a power role, you have a reason for stating that you have one. I am not waffling on this at all; there is reason to doubt a claim until it's proven on someone you read as scum. I doubted Psych's claim, too. More importantly, I doubted both of you aloud to prod you into defending yourselves.

You keep saying things like 'bad gameplay' and 'imo'. Is that a tell? Who are you trying to convince, and what are you trying to convince them of?

EXCEPT YOUR GAMEPLAY AS A WHOLE IS WHAT TIPPED ME OFF TO EVEN THINK/CONSIDER YOU WERE ITP. Also, as stated NUMEROUS times already- I pegged you down as scummy based on D1 content since D1. So no, you're not purely a gut read by far.

Any information that would have purely convicted you would've been outed by this point (I'd have no reason to sit on that knowledge and not say it aloud when it's clear that I want you dead). Any information outside of that is information I don't care to share, simply put.

Secondly, Psych claimed things that were extremely unnecessary and pretty bad as a whole: He claims a RB from a TOWNIE, and literally claims for NO reason when he's not even that heavily under fire. I'm doing neither, so I'm not sure how/why you're comparing our situation remotely.

Bad gameplay = bad gameplay. I don't need to beat a dead horse and continue how scummy you look in my eyes when it's kinda dead obvious at this point. I'm not out to convince anyone, aside from nailing you this day phase. End of story.

You're asking questions you already/should already know the answer to. Why is that?

[Shinori]

Sorry been busy today. Surprising my mother with a birthday party so a post from me will have to wait till after I get back.

[Makaze]

EXCEPT YOUR GAMEPLAY AS A WHOLE IS WHAT TIPPED ME OFF TO EVEN THINK/CONSIDER YOU WERE ITP. Also, as stated NUMEROUS times already- I pegged you down as scummy based on D1 content since D1. So no, you're not purely a gut read by far.

Any information that would have purely convicted you would've been outed by this point (I'd have no reason to sit on that knowledge and not say it aloud when it's clear that I want you dead). Any information outside of that is information I don't care to share, simply put.

Secondly, Psych claimed things that were extremely unnecessary and pretty bad as a whole: He claims a RB from a TOWNIE, and literally claims for NO reason when he's not even that heavily under fire. I'm doing neither, so I'm not sure how/why you're comparing our situation remotely.

Bad gameplay = bad gameplay. I don't need to beat a dead horse and continue how scummy you look in my eyes when it's kinda dead obvious at this point. I'm not out to convince anyone, aside from nailing you this day phase. End of story.

You're asking questions you already/should already know the answer to. Why is that?

1. I'll ask you explicitly since this is getting into repetitive assertions. What actual tells do you have for me?

2. I'm surprised you don't see how scummy this sounds. Your entire reason for mentioning your role is to scare people away from lynching you; in your own words, 'self-serving things are anti-town'.

3. I'm not exactly Psych. How is my bad gameplay a tell? AKA Question 1.

4. That in itself is a rhetorical question; why not answer it for yourself?

Still waiting on that sub for Kay.

Those who haven't voted, AKA Shinori, Darros, FFM and j00: How do you feel about Eury and I? Why are you sitting by and letting a 1v1 drag on?

[Baldrick]

I don't see why you're prickling at a side comment

Remember Training Mafia (also SF3)? Whenever I feel I'm getting discredited I know I'm on to someone who should be lynched.

I didn't see the Shinori read. Though why you didn't just say that instead of getting haughty about it is beyond me.

@Darros; that point about Psych's FFm vote going nowhere is fairly good.

[Eurykins]

Remember Training Mafia (also SF3)? Whenever I feel I'm getting discredited I know I'm on to someone who should shouldn't be lynched. mislynched

I didn't see the Shinori read. Though why you didn't just say that instead of getting haughty about it is beyond me.

@Darros; that point about Psych's FFm vote going nowhere is fairly good.

Fixed.

Secondly, I don't recall truly getting haughty, but if you took something I said negatively, then I apologize?

Thirdly, I actually realized a bit late that, due to the nature of said role, I actually can't use it atm under the current conditions, nor would I actually care to use it at all, really. I somehow feel that more would be gained from you guys mislynching me (if that's what it takes to kinda make the cases/points I've said all the more obvious), but I find it pretty bad that (though the majority of the game is pretty damn sure who the ITP/SK is), you all fail to even do anything about it. ;/

[Baldrick]

So you're saying Terrador's random lynch in Training was a mislynch.

On second read, it's less haughty than I thought at first. But naming FFM as a scumread of yours shows I did read your posts, albeit not carefully.

If your role's not relevant, stop talking about it.

Makaze makes Psych look like Mother Theresa. He makes a good backup lynch but I'd rather spend today scumhunting.

[Eurykins]

So you're saying Terrador's random lynch in Training was a mislynch.

On second read, it's less haughty than I thought at first. But naming FFM as a scumread of yours shows I did read your posts, albeit not carefully.

If your role's not relevant, stop talking about it.

Makaze makes Psych look like Mother Theresa. He makes a good backup lynch but I'd rather spend today scumhunting.

OH, derp. I thought the latter statement (in the other post) was aimed at me, not in reference of Terra. I'm smart.

And fair enough.

[Darros]

Those who haven't voted, AKA Shinori, Darros, FFM and j00: How do you feel about Eury and I? Why are you sitting by and letting a 1v1 drag on?

I already voted. I think you're ITP. I think Eury is town. Are you intentionally ignoring my posts?

[j00]

I'm here, reading now

[CT075]

Firstly, your reads on me are gut reads. You are trying to figure out my role from my mental state alone; the only tell you have is that my behavior is 'strange'. It goes without saying that interpretations of my attitude are subjective and therefore gut reads.

if you want to avoid slapfights in the future you should probably make things like this clear first, because nothing I've seen of Eury's has looked particularly like what I'd define as a gut read

4. If your role is useful, especially in hunting me, it would be helpful for you to divulge info about my role. For example, if you were a watcher you might have watched me last night or the night before and then we could get somewhere because you would know that I had not visited anyone and yet people still ended up dead. If you have one of these useful roles and did not investigate me, that raises questions of its own.

PLS

STOP FISHING

Last time someone soft claimed due to a wagon on them, they flipped scum. Why should we believe you are any different?

there was no wagon on psych at the time he claimed

this is why he got lynched

You keep saying things like 'bad gameplay' and 'imo'. Is that a tell? Who are you trying to convince, and what are you trying to convince them of?

I don't know, is it a tell? Why is it a tell?

Those who haven't voted, AKA Shinori, Darros, FFM and j00: How do you feel about Eury and I? Why are you sitting by and letting a 1v1 drag on?

there's no 1v1 here and creating 1v1s where there aren't any is shitty as fuck

1v1 is basically "one of these two is scum 100%" and I definitely do not think that's going on here

---

i'm not interested in a makaze lynch atm; might reconsider when i get around to reading eury again (hint: i haven't)

[j00]

I agree that due to how close the Psych/Cam wagons were, I don't think neither Makaze or Darros are the last mafia since they both could've made it so Cam was lynched instead.

Didn't like Baldrick's push at the last minute, but his posts today has been good, and Prims' got a point about Paper mixing up Poly/Junko. Only thing bothering me is how quickly he dropped the case on Shinori, due to their play this game I wouldn't rule out the possibility that mafia's been badly coordinated.

Don't think Psych's vote on FFM has that much bearing, because like Darros said, that vote was obviously not going anywhere two hours before deadline. He also hasn't done much since D1 and all his later posts have been sheepy, including the one today. Not giving any reasons for why Cam improved and just quoting some people, while saying that he'd too would vote Eury if he could. At best he's active lurking, even though it barely qualifies as that.

I'm not as bothered by Eury ITP-hunting as the fact that she's not scumhunting and is instead spending walls defending herself, but I agree with her that FFM's the last scum and Makaze the ITP.

Those could also be Shinori and Kay but there's just not much to go on there. I'm leaning null Shinori currently, it really seems like he just doesn't care.

##Vote: FFM

Makaze, could you stop asking for what qualifies as scum/ITP-tells? The reason I find you suspicious is that you keep sidetracking discussion nitpicking on details while admitting that you sometimes play dumb on purpose. You come off as fishing for information about everything, hoping anyone slips. Town doesn't benefit from town slipping up.

[CT075]

i'd like to reiterate that there's no such thing as a 100% scumtell short of "HEY I'M SCUM TOWN SHOULD LYNCH ME" (and i honestly wouldn't even trust that >_>)

[Refa]

(not playing)

HEY I'M SCUM TOWN SHOULD LYNCH ME

(not playing)

[j00]

i'd like to reiterate that there's no such thing as a 100% scumtell short of "HEY I'M SCUM TOWN SHOULD LYNCH ME" (and i honestly wouldn't even trust that >_>)

well if you're town you would want to be mafia with me so as far as im concerned you are basically confirmed mafia. checkmate

can we stop this discussion now

FFM, you never went much in depth about why Cam was scummy, how did he improve?

[Sunwoo]

>Darros gets a new avatar

SO NO

[Prims]

##Unvote

##Vote: FFM

Sheeping; I think Eury's effort has been that of stubborn town who strongly believes in what she posts even if I don't agree with her. Darros made a fair point about Psych's FFM vote and really, the way he's become a background presence as the pressure on him has died down is incredibly suspicious.

[Baldrick]

[spoiler=!!]

##unveto

##veto: Refa

@j00: That was because I just woke up. Unless you meant the manner of the push, not the timing?

I can see where you're coming from re: Shinori, but I'd rather overestimate mafia than underestimate it.

I think this post is pretty good.

From the Eury/Makaze argument I feel better about Eury. Her posts seem a lot more natural than his, like he's nervous about making a slip and she isn't. But I think the last mafia is between her, Kay and FFM and I can't see any benefit in switching my vote to either of them.

[Prims]

imo we should pick a target, push them to claim and lynch if the claim isn't satisfying. No point in letting the day drag out aside from hoping the Kay sub magically happens.

[CT075]

isn't that what town does anyway

[Baldrick]

In theory, but in practice it gets dragged out a lot and sometimes we run out of time. I'm happy to force things along if there's not much to gain by waiting around.

##unvote:

##vote: FFM

[Makaze]

I already voted. I think you're ITP. I think Eury is town. Are you intentionally ignoring my posts?

Today? Seriously? I compared the player list with votals, too.

Sorry about that.

if you want to avoid slapfights in the future you should probably make things like this clear first, because nothing I've seen of Eury's has looked particularly like what I'd define as a gut read

Still not exactly up to date on mafia terms. Up to now I've been pretty liberal about what defines a gut read: if it's not logic it's gut.

PLS

STOP FISHING

I HAD A VALID REASON THIS TIME. It's clear that town won't get anything from that line of questioning at this point so that horse is dead (from my side, at least).

there was no wagon on psych at the time he claimed

this is why he got lynched

Fair.

I don't know, is it a tell? Why is it a tell?

How should I know? I'm the one being accused/told that I'm the one giving off tells.

Makaze, could you stop asking for what qualifies as scum/ITP-tells? The reason I find you suspicious is that you keep sidetracking discussion nitpicking on details while admitting that you sometimes play dumb on purpose. You come off as fishing for information about everything, hoping anyone slips. Town doesn't benefit from town slipping up.

Avoiding asking about tells - fair.

Not trying to get town to slip up - doesn't that assume they're town?

Can we get some updated votals please?

[Makaze]

imo we should pick a target, push them to claim and lynch if the claim isn't satisfying. No point in letting the day drag out aside from hoping the Kay sub magically happens.

isn't that what town does anyway

Is there some kind of difference with what I've been doing?

[Prims]

What I'm saying is that FFM should claim.

Kind of confused why there was an announcement N1 but not N2.

[CT075]

Still not exactly up to date on mafia terms. Up to now I've been pretty liberal about what defines a gut read: if it's not logic it's gut.

i don't have an issue with your definitions it's just off-putting to me (and presumably others) if your definitions differ slightly from the colloquial one

this is why i recommend making your definitions clear at the start of an argument

How should I know? I'm the one being accused/told that I'm the one giving off tells.

oh ok i misinterpreted what you meant

i thought you were asking "is this a tell" as a rhetorical question lol

Not trying to get town to slip up - doesn't that assume they're town?

I think what she means is that your net is cast too wide; you'll end up implicating more people than reasonably should be

if I'm counting properly there are 4 votes on FFM (L-2), that's getting a little close for my comfort so I'm going to ##vote Shinori instead (I'd be down for an FFM lynch if this turns out poorly, I just don't want to risk scum of either sort hammering early)

[CT075]

Is there some kind of difference with what I've been doing?

you're solo asking for roles under vote pressure, which can be bad (as it comes down to your judgement as to who deserves to have their role out in the open)

what prims is suggesting is that town collectively decide who is scummiest (aka standard mafia play) and then forcing them to claim under lynch pressure