British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[FrostyFireMage]

DEAD

would one side hurry up and lose already

DEAD

[Prims]

You can lose if you modkill yourself!

This game is basically dead, Darros hasn't even posted in 24 hours and Cam's posts are arguing and not scumhunting.

I think Shinori has to be one non-town just because it makes no sense for him to track Makaze if he was just going to decide his result was totally worthless the next day. He also had Makaze at the top of his SK list despite knowing Makaze idled except now suddenly Makaze is probably not SK from Shinori's target.

He also knew FFM was clear D3 (FFM would have had to have been the scum on the kill) but put like, zero effort into not getting him lynched.

Full speed ahead, let's get this over with.

[Baldrick]

But his buddy could have done it... oh yeah.

##unvote:

##vote: Shinori

Prims, don't encourage people to self-modkill. That's my niche.

[Prims]

modkill you'reself irl

[Prims]

That's L-1, by the way.

[Shinori]

So I shot J00 last night and it failed, he's probably the sk.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Shinori

[Prims]

Not cool if that's real, but I buy it lol

[Makaze]

So I shot J00 last night and it failed, he's probably the sk.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Shinori

What?

[Shinori]

7. Don't post after someone's been hammered! I'll do my best to keep to phase deadlines, so you're free to continue until I update unless someone's been hammered!

[Refa]

(not playing)

I bet Shinori is hammered IRL too.

(not playing)

[charlie_]

At a time most brits don't really want to be awake at, you guys lynched Shinori.

Dear Shinori,

You are Prince Charles.

"Do you seriously expect me to be the first Prince of Wales in history not to have a mistress?"

You are Prince Charles, first in line for the throne! Unfortunately, your mother has been hogging it for the last 60 or so years, so you're feeling rather bitter. Bitter enough in fact to intice a revolution with your foreign allies!

You are a Revolutionary Godfather. Due to your heritage, you are most British indeed! Any investigation on you will prove that you are indeed British, and not a threat to the throne! To be honest, it's because your kitchen's got crumpets in it!

You may conspire with your evil friends here!

Post restriction: You must make offhand comments about the media, and how they're too invasive.

You are allied with the Revolution, you win when all threats are eliminated.

That went well.

It is now Night 4. You have 24 hours to send in your actions, although expecting another 7am update is probably unrealistic so it will probably take longer than that.

[Zkirsche]

kirsche amiscum

I'm pretty happy with him overall.

a.k.a. you're mostly town, but there's shades of grey. In comparison, Darros is 99% town in my eyes.

kirsche, I noticed you asked for others to claim but didn't claim yourself. Is there a reason for that?

Firstly, I didn't ask for others to claim I just wanted to know what claims where public and what aren't. There's an awful lot to read through and I was hoping you guys would make it slightly easier for me. Also I'm town insomniac but I thought that was already known. I haven't bothered to ISO j00 and probably won't because /lazy.

So I shot J00 last night and it failed, he's probably the sk.

Sure.

Moving on to ISOs:

[spoiler=Baldrick]

-Baldrick's case on Cam is good and is making me rethink my Cam read a little, though I disagree with the "useless walls" part.

-His case on Darros is also good, but it feels like he spens more of his time criticising Cam and also there's this:

Psych not being here at all is bad, but Cam being here and posting mostly useless walls instead of addressing the cases against him feels even worse to me.

Which reads like trying to get people to lynch Cam while disassociating himself with the wagon by keeping his vote on Darros. It may come from my complete townread on Darros, but I feel pretty bad about this. He does eventually change to Cam but at that point it's basically consolidation.

-He talks very little about Psych in general, he's obviously not his buddy but I'd think town would be doing more in that situation? I'd thought a clearly motivated member would talk more and defend their position more considering how convinced he seemed that Psych was town (implied by #639).

-Drops Darros (and Makaze) kinda easily as he says that Darros is protown for voting Psych but kinda forgets that Darros could be ITP? Actually if he was the ITP then he wouldn't naturally think others would be ITP.

Ascetics eschew worldly pleasures

Did anyone confirm this claim? Also I feel like two untargettables in the town is unlikely #rolespec

After that, he seems to have dropped Cam entirely for some reason, even after justifying why Cam could still be scum after voting Psych he never follows up, instead chasing Eury/eclipse, not really getting far and then reaction testing Makaze for reasons unknown and getting who knows what from it. Good bet for last scum imo.

[spoiler=eclipse]

All of eclipse's first post is filled with kinda useless points, talking about how FFM's target was weird, how Cam is annoying and how Shinori is super null. She doesn't really come to many useful conclusions other than "Baldrick is bad, Makaze is likely town because he's stubborn" and the latter point isn't really solid reasoning.

No one asked the important question of WHY I couldn't claimv

I feel like this point is overblown and is falsely being used to clear/suspect people. When it comes to roles town and mafia can tip-toe around it, town won't ask you that unless they suspected you and scum would obviously want to know your role and so would be more willing to ask it. Furthermore if people weren't really suspecting you, and sometimes even if they were depending on the severity of the accusations, they would likely avoid trying to out roles needlessly.

This is especially bad because eclipse essentially dropepd Baldrick to chase after Shinori for such weak reasoning.

Then you start suspecting Makaze because he forgot to mention you in his announcements. Now this is going to come off as rude, but not everything is about YOU. People not talking about you all the time, not chasing you for a claim all the time and not putting you in every reads post indicates absolutely nothing about alignment. You even demanded a case against you from Darros.

Then you sit on your bad Shinori vote all phase while claiming that you're getting stuff from Baldrick and j00 then not commenting on that stuff and swapping your vote to Cam based off of pure rolespec. Rolespec is fine and all but you need something else to back it up, I wouldn't find so much wrong with this if you were townreading everyone else but you clearly value everything else that you've pointed out less than Cam's claim which makes me question just how much you've really accomplished over the phase. Also I'm not really sure I agree with it as while Psych's role is pretty weak PB's has a hook which is obviosuly harmful and a safeguard which is effectively a flexible strongman, and yes, Hooker is a harmful role.

Need to pick up my Sister from her swimming sessions and have got dinner shortly after that, will finish later.

[Zkirsche]

So it turns out driving my family everywhere and then watching England fail to get anything more than a point from thier game over dinner destroys all motivation :/

Makaze

-#638 feels too daring to be ITP.

-#725 reads as trying to find scum, even though rolefishing is shady. MOstly due to the "last time" comment.7

-#766 reads genuinely like he wants to scumhunt over pressuring an inactive.

-#795 is a little bit of a contradiction to his post before, if Eury's Psych case was solid then her walls aren't half-assed surely?

-Skimmed the rest, and most of it appears to be defending his Eury case and his early claim, neither of which I am reading as scummy.

Prims

-#662 shows genuine interest in catching scum

-High effort levels all game and good posting consistency is the opposite of what I think ITP Prims would be like, I'd think ITP!Prims would be less assertive (especially the stuff regarding Paper) and would try to blend in more rather than sticking himself out too much and risk getting shot like I think he has been.

-I'm getting a little confused with what his opinion on Eury is, for a long time he thought Eury was scum avoiding sumhunting, then he says she is putting in effort and then later he puts her in bottom tier in his tier list post (#841).

-Ok he sorts this out #926 but his read is all over the place. First scum, then probtown, then back to leaning scum

Wheee only one left, too bad it's Eury @_@

Scum Priority: Baldrick > eclipse >> Cam > Prims > Makaze >> Darros

[Zkirsche]

Ok no not reading through that at 1 AM.

Ciao.

[Shin]

Due to my schedule, N4 will now end at 16:00GMT+0 today! Sorry for the delays, stupid real life!

[Shin]

You all gather outside the palace to continue your battle against all things evil and not British! However, Prims is nowhere to be seen! Morning television will never be the same again!

Dear Prims,

You are Judy Finnigan!

"They wanted someone with serious muscle to present it, but they picked us because we were cheap"

You are Judy of Richard and Judy fame! With a long TV career, you're a household name... well at least in the households who know you! A little kinder than your husband, you've got people's feelings at heart... although you're no softy!

You are a British Lover. You may chat with your husband, Richard (played by the lovely Baldrick) in SOME quicktopic! You love your husband so much, you cannot cope without him, so if he dies, so do you!

Post restriction: You must consider people's feelings and complain that your husband is being a little mean.

You are allied with Britain, you win when all threats are eliminated.

The show wouldn't be the same with only just one... wait! You find that Baldrick has been bludgeoned to death with a turnip!

Dear Baldrick,

You are Richard Madeley!

'I've never met anyone who thought Sherlock Holmes invented the toilet. You're quite sharp. It's just that in the pure sense of the word, you're ignorant.'

You are Richard of Richard and Judy fame! With a long TV career, you're a household name... well at least in the households who know you! Always with something to say about things, you're rather harsh... but also amusing.

You are a British Lover. You may chat with your wife, Judy (played by the lovely Prims) in SOME quicktopic! You love your wife so much, you cannot cope without her, so if she dies, so do you!

Post restriction: You must critcize things you don't agree with, in a mocking yet rather cunning way.

You are allied with Britain, you win when all threats are eliminated.

Also some tosser left another annoying message;

The people setting off the most red flags are Eurykins, Cam and Baldrick.

Eurykins has a strong history of tunneling the ITP read and nitpicking even the smallest thing to support a lynch. She has consistently avoided actually scumhunting. She has neglected to offer any defense for her behavior other than 'I gave reads on the scum you killed'. I strongly believe she is the ITP based on this bizarrely aggressive and specific line of thinking.

Cam is also a very possible ITP for their previously mentioned noncommittal lines of questioning that do not end in votes but waste town's time. See his line of questioning towards me. Opposite to Eury, they backed off of me as a target when people started thinking I could be the ITP. This seems like a plausible self-preservation tactic, especially given that their entire reason for giving me a pass after the line of questions has been that I "feel" like town, which is not something anyone else has gotten; others have actual reasons for believing me town that contradict their intuitions. As for the self-preservation tactic; if I do get killed and I flip town, he looks good for not mislynching me on ITP suspicions. Unfortunately for him, there is also another explanation for this course of action and that is that if he is the ITP then he knows I am not the ITP and knows not to mislynch from that instead. From there he can safely protect himself by not hunting me. They are also a Nexus which is a very useful role for the ITP.

Baldrick is my third read because he has the most aggressive play of anyone still alive and has not gone after me on ITP suspicions but on scum suspicions and has done some strange baseless pressuring as I said before. While they have done some half-decent reaction testing among other things, these are gambits that an ITP could use as easily as town and their public aftercare for their aggression could just as easily be adapted responses to sub-optimal reactions. It is possible they were fishing for me to react badly like I did much earlier in the game and turned it around to save face when I behaved better than expected.

My priorities are Eurykins / Cam > Baldrick for the D5 lynch. If I am dead when you read this, please consider my arguments and reread these players' ISOs. As the primary ITP read for most of the game, I think I have a unique perspective on this issue. I hope my intuition is right.

Good luck.

Big Ben sounds to start Day 5! With 6 alive, it takes 2 to lynch and 4 to hammer! Phase ends in nearly 72 hours on 28/6 16:00GMT+0!

EDIT: FIXED TIMING

Edited June 25, 2014 by Shin

[CT075]

##vote kirsche

lol

[CT075]

also "as the primary ITP read... unique perspective" is a fair bit of self-centered reasoning that i really don't buy into (nobias)

why the fuck are there still two kills

[Darros]

Cam, they were lovers.

[Darros]

I don't really agree with Cam being ITP logic, like it was said, hitting maf is more important than ITP. ((I disagreed partially, antitown is antitown)) If people thought you were the ITP, wouldn't they want to focus on Mafia instead? I think it might be Eury though. Makaze is kind of on point when it comes to that.

[Makaze]

There goes my third read.

RIP Prims. Your contributions to town will be missed.

My reads are the same as last night. I want either a Eurykins or Cam lynch because as far as I'm concerned one of them has to be the ITP.

also "as the primary ITP read... unique perspective" is a fair bit of self-centered reasoning that i really don't buy into (nobias)

My intuitin has not been wrong yet, has it? I'm entitled.

[Makaze]

intuition* my bad.

[CT075]

Cam, they were lovers.

READING IS TECH

as much as i wish shinori's whole "HEY I SHOT J00" thing isn't real i feel like it is so lol

[Makaze]

I don't really agree with Cam being ITP logic, like it was said, hitting maf is more important than ITP. ((I disagreed partially, antitown is antitown)) If people thought you were the ITP, wouldn't they want to focus on Mafia instead? I think it might be Eury though. Makaze is kind of on point when it comes to that.

He didn't think I was ITP, he thought I "felt like town". Actually, looking back he has thought I was town the whole game. Maybe not a tell after all.

But I'd like to hear your thoughts on what I read so I'll quote wall anyway.

or makaze but my gut says he's town

@Darros -

gut town on makaze is exactly what it sounds like and i'm not really sure what you want me to say?

There was a telling post here that helped explain why the ITP spec-ing was anti-town, but doesn't explain the gut town claims. It also makes a show of questioning me but nothing fruitful came of it, just like the first round of 'hunting':

- ITP spec is dumb; SK and mafia are indistinguishable to town and it is antitown to devote a large amount of discussion to weeding out who could or could not be ITP (as opposed to who is or isn't scum, which is a better question). I would definitely peg one of Boron/Darros/Makaze, as well as whoever else spent more than one or two posts discussing it (those three in particular spent a huge amount of time arguing over pointless things like "who brought up the ITP anyway") as scum trying to throw suspicion off of themselves or someone else (or just trying to add confusion and clutter in general)

(Later on in post)

> Makaze, Boron, Darros - I want your opinions on the other two, as well as on Prims vs BBM from D1.

Post after the anti-role spec that points out contradictions in my posts and still reads null/gut town:

[spoiler=Makaze]i already ripped through half of his D1 posts anyway so i'm gonna skip those

Start of D2 posts are all mostly SK spec which is bad. Then it's followed up by a mention of Eury out of nowhere ("they are drowning the thread in wallposts") - That's not the kind of claim you can make without context.

The Psych vote is fine, then a rebuttal to Eury consists of self-spec (useless) and some other stuff that isn't convincing - "I have [read your ISO], and carefully at that" means nothing unless you point out where in particular the behavior you're quoting happened

"You guys are using your guts way too much" is self-spec and AtE

"Oh, I'm concerned about lynching scum" - I feel really badly about throwing "confirmed scum" around when the only people with confirmed alignments are those in their graves

- That's really weird, why do you even care about riling feathers? What happened to "my self-preservation is none"? fuck, riling feathers is like the best way to scumhunt

reaction test - That's really weird, why do you even care about riling feathers? What happened to "my self-preservation is none"? fuck, riling feathers is like the best way to scumhunt

reaction test is alright (though I disagree with the method)

lot of other posts are arguing about who brought the ITP up which is pointless

this post (and the next one) is fine but I disagree with some of the logic (inactivity isn't a scumtell unless you catch them reading the thread, and then Eury is cleared "for having good arguments" but scum can have good arguments too)

I'm not going to get into the Psych fiasco because that was dumb and I don't know what to make of it

this is fine

request to me is decent (if useless), response to Prims is alright

"They've acted squarely in the interests of town" - that's the kind of thing you can't just throw out there without giving particulars

"junko is confirmed town" - Do you know something I don't? I don't see any role information that proves that Junko is town?

Paper not knowing who Junko is is a decent point but I don't think we can conclude that Junko is town from that (we don't know what happened in the scum chat... or do you?). For all we know, Paper didn't bother checking the scum chat, or the quicktopic had him as "junko" (which doesn't immediately follow to "DO NOT EDIT POSTS GUY"), or it was a scum group PM ("DO NOT EDIT POSTS GUY" also does not immediatelly follow to "junko"), or he was just lying.

"more obvious scum" such as? I also disagree that my voting junko is weak (nobias)

rest of it is fine (i'm not going to talk about the most recent psych vote because there's no way i can keep that unbiased)

Conclusion is null (gut town), there are some really good posts that are villagery and some really weird posts that aren't.

Contradicts himself; finally says something about me maybe being non-town:

Offhand I'm disagreeing with a lot of the Eury case (esp since they all seem to focus on a single post); I will come back to reread Eury after I fix hax that people have been asking for

i'm not interested in a makaze lynch atm; might reconsider when i get around to reading eury again (hint: i haven't)

Later showing that he still hasn't, or if he has, has not mentioned it, still a town read:

i don't think that makaze's claim was warranted at all; i had my suspicions but now it's just out in the open for no real reason. Other than Darros, there was nobody really on him and role doesn't indicate alignment. Was leaning town but this just looks either bad or stupid to me

One thing at really stands out to me about his play is that he joined every wagon we've had and as a result has not actually scum hunted anyone he has actually voted. There were several posts where he said he had good reads but they got lost; e.g. his Boron case. The people he has hunted have been people he didn't give much attention. In fact, he spent almost all of his time questioning people he read town. It's strange.

[Makaze]

Before I forget:

##Vote: Eurykins