Mitsuki Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Maybe I'll reply to stuff after all. a) You're missing the point. If you're townreading people for weak reasons and then try getting scumreads by PoE that isn't good play at all. b) Ok then, do you think picking sides by using reasons like gut is good, honest town play? a) Good play =/= scum play, specially in early phases of the game. I think it's scummy how you're saying bad play is scum play. b) It might be, specially early in the game. 'Not much has happened' so I need to rely on other scumtells like these, I was so sure with my scorri read but I'll need to re evaluate my priority list now. First post is from a defense against my case and second is a reads post. I think it's scummy how Marth implies that he thinks his reasons for suspecting Scorri (and Darros) are weak when it comes to defending himself against a case on him that calls him scummy for using those scumtells, and then he says he was very confident about one of those reads. After reconsidering Marth I still think he's scummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 read my posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 @mitsuki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 RIGHT THIS GAME EXISTS Actually doing things now. Probably. While playing FE6, sue me (heheh, geddit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuki Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 read my posts I have. I just didn't know if you sent the missile when you did the reaction test and it was announced when it was impossible to stop it, or if you sent it afterwards. (Now that I've checked detonation time I know it's the latter) I don't get why you think Darros is scum based on his reaction to being vigged, though. All you've said is that you're unimpressed, but I think that's town being demotivated. Why do you think it's a reaction coming from scum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 @Mitsuki- Manix doesn't change his reads for anything short of a 100% unarguable role result, like a friendly townie (me in Group Mafia). Not really sure why he bothered with the reaction test. Currently since Darros gave up he's thinking that it's demotivatived scum not bothering to post anymore. But if Darros had gone super effort mode and written 5 paragraphs about every player in the game Manix would probably have said it was scum flailing to try and save themselves. What's really frustrating me is that neither of you (Marth, Manix) are looking at the REASONS behind my townreads and saying why they're bad. Like seriously, you haven't disputed my reasoning behind townreading a single person in the thread except Darros. You're just taking it as automatically suspicious that I'm not scumreading anyone who's active without saying why my reasons for doing so are bad because hey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuki Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 @BBM: Well, it's worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I realized I didn't finish my second paragraph ...because hey; inactive people can't be scum right? should probably clarify that I still think Manix is town; he's just incapable of re-evaluating and it's highly annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 actually if darros had made more effort to the reaction test i probably would have not even fired it at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 there's a reason that i didn't just go "hey darros you're actually dead" and then the announcement comes in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 You know, I think I've barely quoted this whole game. Time to start doing that. I feel like a lot of you are just signing everyone off as town when you shouldn't be doing that.(especially BBM) OK, I can see town being bothered by people just throwing about town reads, but the lack of followup to this is what bothers me. It's easy to say "stop townreading people, guys" but that doesn't accomplish anything. Why is townreading people bad? What specific examples are there (no calling out BBM does not count)? ##Vote: Scorri Her last D1 post came at a time when kirsche and FFM were tied. She doesn't specify her lynch priority in her wallpost so its hard to tell what would have happened if she was on in the last 24 hours of D1. I also feel the basis of her kirsche vote is weak because she doesn't take into account the fact that kirsche's playstyle is(no offence) naturally provocative, so emphasizing on him daring people to react to his post is scummy imo. And as I said earlier, saying BBM's reaction is town while kirsche's is not is like picking sides. Manix's Darros case has merit. Also Darros is guilty of picking sides in the BBM/kirsche interaction just like scorri. The difference is the timing which is opportunistic. Gut says scorri is following her anti-town!meta from ITTD where she tunneled on town!vhaltz and then proceeded to be inactive and give little content. But shit. Darros and scorri are similar in their play this game so... TWO VOTES ARE BETTER THAN ONE! ##Unvote ##Vote: Darros OK, you bring up a good point with regards to scorri's lack of lynch priority. Would like an answer to that myself. Your scorri scumread is contradictory though, which is bad. In the beginning, you complain that she's fencesitting in one case, which I already said makes sense. Later on you say she's picking sides which is scummy (how is that scummy?) and I don't even get why you think her kirsche vote is weak (and later on you even complain that she's tunneling on kirsche). Also scorri already covered the meta thing, so leaving that online. Vote on Darros despite a detailed case on scorri is weird, but I don't know if Marth would make that play as scum (also maybe he thought Manix was crumbing Cop or something) If it isn't clear, my priority as of this sentence is Darros>= Scorri. @Refa: I'll answer in points. 1. At the time of my scorri vote FFM had four votes on him. Adding another vote on to the wagon would not be of any help at all. Other than that all I had to go was RVS, and no I don't see anything alarming in the BBM/kirsche interactions. Saying that I made a case for the sake of it is unfair imo. 2. Yes I should've been clear with my priority. For clarification I thought FFM was scummier at that point of time. 3. I didn't follow up on my scorri case because the next time I made a vote switch was after I came back home from a sleepover and I could only skim the thread a couple of times before that. Also scorri wasn't going to be lynched at that point while FFM and kirsche were tied wagons. Contrary to my scum play in AOC where I added an unnecessary vote on to the Junko wagon, my FFM vote was necessary to prevent a possible lynch tie for deadline, so I don't see why you called my FFM vote empty earlier. 1. Yeah, actually fair enough on that one. My bad. 2. So considering you've made this mistake yourself, do you still think scorri is scummy for doing the same thing? If so, why is she worse than you in this regard? 3. OK, I can see where you're coming from there. @Refa: OH I forgot to ask you two questions. 1. You are using killspec as part of your kirsche scumread. By this same logic, don't you think BBM could also be possible scum? SB did mention that BBM felt off and was following his scum!meta in a MotK game, so what do you think of that? You had a townread on kirsche last phase, so the 180 on this read because of killspec needs more detail IMO. 2. If you think I'm a smart players as scum, why even conduct the reaction test on me? I mean that would make it... pointless. 1. If BBM is scum, then I don't think he'd kill SB for such a weak meta read reason (but rather just because SB is a strong player who was unlikely to get protected). I'm not saying kirsche is necessarily scum for that, but that it is something that bothers me about him. Yeah, I'll expand on my reads after these replies. 2. It was mostly a decision on the spur of the moment (my reasoning for scanning you was legit, just not...a legit scan), but it also helped me form some initial reads on other players based on their reactions to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuki Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 @Manix: answer my question (here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I still am not feeling the cases on Darros; sticking to his guns about Poly reads like town since there were people were considering lynching him at deadline pretty much solely because of the Poly vote. Also his wording "isn't it obvious?" makes me feel that he genuinely finds what Poly did to be suspicious. How did Darros stick to his guns about Poly? Like at all? @Mitsuki -I don't think we should assume an SK until two people actually drop dead the same night and noone claims Vigilante. I can get your reasoning behind this, but yeah. -Wow, way to sheep my point re: Marth and townreads that I made like 24 hours after you (yes not serious). -I get why you take issues with Marth's "scorri is picking sides" argument, but I don't see how Marth's read was solely based on that at all. the reason why 2) is a thing is because i was the only person to express any sort of remote suspicion on him so. I expressed some suspicion on him as well (he was a null read for me), which is why his kill baffled me. I don't get scum. >don't have scumreads>have PoEit's still kinda convenient that they're all inactives. is there seriously no active player that is remotely scummy? Honestly I can see where BBM is coming from here. Most of the active people are reading as town to me, and I really feel like at least one scum is there (maybe two if the scumteam has 4 people, I dunno what the reasonable size would be for a 14p game). Eh, Bluedoom is probably town. I had issues with his reads post, but the way he's pushing his case VS Mitsuki seems legit to me. Elieson's first reads post seems pretty OK too on first glance. While I wish it was more organized :<, the actual thoughts themselves are OK enough. Also I don't think he'd be so scatterbrained as scum. His Mitsuki case is kind of bad though, like yeah her post wasn't protown but...why is it scummy? Also I tend to find that town is more likely to spec about ITP stuff on thread than scum because scum has this neat thing called scumchat to do that instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 ##Unvote RIP Darros Also Manix's role makes him more likely to be town, good to know. Oh, scorri answered the lynch priority thing cool. Would like the people scumreading her to say what they think about that. Also yeah, I'd totally sheep her kirsche read. Is Mitsuki crumbing harmless 3rd or something, lol. I feel like the flavor of this game would allow for a survivor, but at the same time survivors are dumb so I hope not. Also survivor probably doesn't qualify as harmless... Honestly, if Darros flips scum I could see his kirsche vote being a weak bus. Agree with Manix about his reaction. Like even as Vanilla Town I'd expect him to be like "WHAT THE HELL AFTER I FLIP TOWN LYNCH THESE PEOPLE" or something to that effect. If Darros flips town at this point, I'll be 1) very sad and 2) very surprised. Ugh, I dunno what to think of kirsche. His posts seem reasonable enough but people have made good points against him (particularly scorri, I think he refuted Mitsuki's points well enough) but I feel like he wouldn't vote Eurykins this far in as scum but but ugh. I really do need to ISO him, lame those are /effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Why do you think it's a reaction coming from scum?it's scum bc he's not putting in a boatload of effort. i understand that town can be demotivated, but really? if you're town and you give up on some non-clear saying you're gonna die, then there's an existent possibility that 1) he knows i'm not scum and 2) wants to clam up to not give as many associative reads. i'll spin this another way: i wouldn't think that a town primed to die wouldn't go and try their absolute best to do what they can before they die. like the amount of effort darros put in was minimal at best at does not read as town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuki Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 -I get why you take issues with Marth's "scorri is picking sides" argument, but I don't see how Marth's read was solely based on that at all. It wasn't based on that only, I know. I never tried to say it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 thanks refa for cutting me mitsuki why do you think the reaction was specifically townie, anyway? (i'm only been skimming and i've just got back from laser tag with a headache so apologies if you've already explained why in detail) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuki Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 @Manix: I explained my thoughts on why the reaction was townie here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 ty mitsuki thoughts on my explanation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Probably need to reread BBM too fuck. Marth's recent post is pretty good, actually. Why was I scumreading him again? thanks refa for cutting me No problem bro. Anyways, lynch priority is as follows. kirsche = BBM >> Elieson > Mitsuki > scorri > Bluedoom > Manix > Refa kirsche and BBM are both people I'm bothered by to some extent but they've both done townie things so I don't even know, will reread and form actually good opinions rather than just sheep. Elieson is a minor townread for his first post, but his Mitsuki vote was kind of bad and I dunno. All of my other reads are pretty much the same, scorri's higher because her play comes across as a lot townier and I don't even get all of the scumreads on her. If my last posts haven't explained why Bluedoom is way down on my list, then clearly I've failed at explaining my read on him in them (alternative- you suck at reading). Vig priority is as follows (yeah there probably isn't another vig but I'd rather not lynch an inactive today; possible!SK can take notes, I guess): Polydeuces > Eurykins > Shinori Poly is above Eurykins despite similar levels of activity because apparently Eurykins was busy or something? Shinori's below her despite this because he's still actually done something (...yesterday) and it was decent enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Also I should've been asleep like five hours ago and am thus too braindead to make any sort of comprehensive ISO. I'd probably lynch between kirsche, BBM, Elieson, but I definitely want to reread the former two (and I guess Elieson if I inexplicably reread them both as town) before saying anything for sure. Wouldn't lynch anyone below Mitsuki today for sure, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuki Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 @Manix: I can see town not putting a lot of effort anyways if they were not motivated about the game in the first place, like I think Darros was. From his reaction I'm sure he thought he was dying: if he was scum in that situation he'd just claim scum and let out some rage. Why bother to give reads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 yeah but mitsuki why would he just assume he's dying? i know i'm Townie As Fuck but i'm still a non-clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuki Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Why? I don't know. But he assumed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 also claiming scum is Bad Play unless you're confirmed scum by role results/about to be lynched i mean yeah i would like loved to see that, but realistically it was never going to happen bc scumbuddies exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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