Conspiracy Mafia - End of Days

[Vhaltz]

Because I hinted at having a redirecting role as opposed to just being an actionless mason??

I don't get how this is relevant

[Prims]

a redirecting role that only works on people who target you though, since you told poly to target you. if anything, scum would NEVER NIGHTKILL YOU EVER when you were yelling "i do something to people who target me!"

[Blitz]

I thought I will finish reading first but I couldn't resist this post

Docs aren't mislynches though. Fatal flaw there, Prims.

you are clearly underestimating Prims cause Prims can lynch ANYBODY (very literally)

okay, back on topic, I am still reading, but I really like the Vhaltz wagon (will support it completely), but some other things also need to be done, LIKE Shin NEEDS to STOP ACTIVE LURKING. Shin has been posting useless fluff for the past~72 hours and he doesn't have a single actual read.

SHIN I WANT YOU TO FULL CLAIM AND POST YOUR READS AS TO WHO THE TWO MEMBERS OF THE MAFIA TEAM ARE AND WHY?

if you don't do these soon, I will get the lynch on you instead

as for everyone else, you should all post who you think are the two members of the scum team and why and this goes doubly for Proto, Poly and Vhaltz

[charlie_]

Vhaltz (3): BBM, Refa, Polydeuces

Proto (1): Prims

Haze (1): Manix

Voteless Illuminati: Everyone else

You have 59 and a half hours left in the phase.

[Prims]

Shin shouldn't fullclaim until tomorrow since it tells scum who stopped the kill on PoE (no, I don't believe Vhaltz did that).

[Prims]

but yeah I already said the scumteam is Vhaltz and whichever one of Shin/Proto didn't stop the kill.

[Blitz]

Okay, I am done reading and I hardly have much to add

I think Vhaltz just claimed he couldn't stop the kill, so, he obviously had nothing to do with the kill stop. I am seeing no reason not to lynch him based on roleclaims

I would rather have BBM/me not die, so, I am okay with Proto/Shin dying and like you said, scum should know anyways (that is assuming my reads are right) so, IMO, Shin should get in here, stop active lurking and claim.

[Vhaltz]

I stop kills if I get targetted while I'm hiding. I hid behind Shin last night, meaning all kills on me would fail, all non-kill actions would get redirected to Shin and I'd die if Shin got killed.

[Refa]

Shin shouldn't fullclaim until tomorrow since it tells scum who stopped the kill on PoE (no, I don't believe Vhaltz did that).

Proto and Shin should fullclaim today because one of them is scum anyways and would already know who stopped the kill if it wasn't Vhaltz.

[Grace]

might be alive

would like to remind everyone that this is a bastard game and anything can happen with roles!

hint: don't assume anything, not even legit town masons because they can be scum too

might be alive

[Prims]

However if Poly or Refa is scum, which isn't -totally- impossible, not having the doc claim means they have to either guess which one the doc is, hope to outguess the doc, or make a weird kill and limit their mislynch options, which could potentially out them.

[Prims]

lmao what if vhaltz flipped town after all this

[Vhaltz]

Really disliking Refa asking Shin and Proto to claim. The "one of Shin and Proto is scum anyway" feels like a false dichotomy because it's not necessarily true. If one of them is Actually A Doc then all it does is help scum kill the protective role when they could stop a kill.

Also, the "I don't CARE if Cam can't be mafia, he could be SK!!" makes me wonder if he was scum who figured out Cam was SK and wanted him out of the picture.

I pushed Cam hard towards the end of D2 and he only bothered to dismiss my case so I was certain Cam shot me N2 and failed. His PM isn't clear wrt whether he was 1-shot or a full SK so Cam was likely to be gambitting to see if he'd be left alive as harmless third.

gay

Also, reading their D2 posts Vhaltz said Mitsuki never told him about her Weapons suspicion, but... there's no reason for her to not actually bring that up if they were really playing a hydra. Abuse of hydra dissonance imo.

This is a misrep because I specified that Mitsuki began to suspect Weapons during night phase when she was doing ISOs and reading the thread so that we could switch heads.

I agree with BBM that the push on me feels unnatural, mostly because his retracting of his Poly suspicion so suddenly is ??? like it would be okay if he'd wanted to lynch me because he thought Poly/me are buddies but it feels like he just cased me based on that because he saw the opportunity to push Poly/me interactions and then realized that we didn't make literally any sense as buddies outside that so he backtracked and pulled away from his Poly suspicion entirely. Prims' case on me is based entirely on minutiae as opposed to his larger Poly case he pushed hard for two full day phases where he was really solid on his Weapons interactions so the switch in opinions wrt Poly's alignment based on mine doesn't make any sense. Prims why am I scum over Poly and why is Poly no longer scum?

I need to reread Refa because I really don't like how he went from dismissing roleshens earlier when it came to having an opinion on me/Poly to relying on them entirely for scumhunting when it came to lynching Proto/Shin. Also need to reread Shin because I think scum miller is Dumb but I can't atm Mitsuki's house is chaos and we should've already left the house long ago.

I'll be back in like 6-7 hours, if you're going to lynch me anyway give me a chance to reread and give reads first.

[Refa]

Really disliking Refa asking Shin and Proto to claim. The "one of Shin and Proto is scum anyway" feels like a false dichotomy because it's not necessarily true. If one of them is Actually A Doc then all it does is help scum kill the protective role when they could stop a kill.

I need to reread Refa because I really don't like how he went from dismissing roleshens earlier when it came to having an opinion on me/Poly to relying on them entirely for scumhunting when it came to lynching Proto/Shin. Also need to reread Shin because I think scum miller is Dumb but I can't atm Mitsuki's house is chaos and we should've already left the house long ago.

If your role exists, why would you think that there is a doctor at all...you even assumed that you blocked the kill.

How am I relying on role related stuff at all.

[Refa]

Also if I die for whatever reason (don't see why scum would ever opt to kill me over masons), you guys should request votals at the start of the day.

[Vhaltz]

because it's still a possibility, if I do die it's with two people dying the same night and having a doc would make sense balance-wise so that whateverloversshinoriwas and me/other dude don't die and halve the playerbase immediately.

I also don't know if I stopped the kill tonight but it's a possibility if prims is scum, which is looking likely atm.

And you literally just said this "Proto and Shin should fullclaim today because one of them is scum anyways and would already know who stopped the kill if it wasn't Vhaltz." so claiming that you're not relying on roleshens is just denial for the sake of denial

[Refa]

How does that involve roles in any way...Me thinking that one of them is scum has nothing to do with their roles.

[Vhaltz]

okay I see now, fuck my reading skills

I'll actually reread properly when I get back, this morning is just literally The Worst time to mafia seriously

[Refa]

Meh, was holding off on saying this till Vhaltz did his reread of me, but too impatient; he did bring up a good point about Prims suddenly retracting his suspicion of Poly when he had been tunneling on him for a few days there. What makes Vhaltz more likely to be scum than Poly? Eh, unvoting until I feel better about this.

##Unvote

##Vote: Proto

[Refa]

By that, I mean from Prims' PoV.

[MRDRHAWK]

I can only assume Prims decided to put it aside for now since he was getting a better read on Vhaltz since he actually noted earlier that he was getting townie vibes from me.

As for Blitzy's query, if Vhaltz flips scum, I'd still probably lean one of Prims/Proto as his buddy through PoE. Shin's not posting is no good, but I doubt he's scum unless there actually is a scum miller out there. If somehow that's the case, then I'd go Vhaltz/Shin, but w/e.

Of course, if Vhaltz flips town, I'm kinda leaning on two of Prims/Proto/Shin being a team by that same logic. Refa could also be scum too, but it seems unlikely since he's been really burnt out by rolling scum lately, but here he's actually putting forth effort so idk.

FMPOV, the only people clear are myself (obvious) and BBM/Blitz (masons). Even then, all the talk of an infiltrator worries me.

[Blitz]

First of all, I really doubt Cam had more than one kill in total (cause that would mean crazy amounts of deaths)

Secondly, I highly doubt Vhaltz would be shot at night cause both me and BBM are MUCH better targets

Thirdly, I don't think I was shot, I think it was BBM (he is less erratic and a better player) and even if it wasn't one of us, why not go after Prims or Refa (cause their roles are much less likely to be scum)

Fourth, if Vhaltz can hide, why claim in thread as a harmful role, rather than being Pro!town in hopes of getting shot instead? (reminds me of scum!Excellen from Chilean Musicians Mafia)

Fifth, Shin still hasn't posted anything and he should really get in here, not to mention full claim

Sixth, did Proto manage to disappear again?

[Prims]

I haven't been able to sleep, which means it looks like I'm pulling an all-night and will probably be too exhausted to write good mafia posts. But here I am anyway.

I decided Vhaltz > Poly after re-reading Vhaltz's interactions with Weapons - Vhaltz's look more subtle like you'd expect scum/scum interactions to be, while Poly at least had the gall to commit to a hard stance on Weapons, even if it was bad. You'll note I didn't actually switch votes until I looked at Vhaltz/Weapons interactions, before then I was just interested in pressing Vhaltz as I got a bad impression from his day opener and thought his role seemed very out-of-place in the set-up, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking him. The suggestion that I'm scum who wanted to push Vhaltz/Poly as buddies but realized I couldn't is hilariously wrong because in my very first post where I voiced suspicion of Vhaltz I said they made no sense as buddies but that Vhaltz could be scum white-knighting town!Poly.

Refa, who cares if my switch from Poly to Vhaltz was abrupt? It doesn't alter the quality of the case or change Vhaltz's alignment, unless you think I'm scum and can't be scum with Vhaltz, but you're not actually pressing me. This is a really weird reason to change your opinion.

Blitz, how are you reading Proto right now?

[MRDRHAWK]

Blitz stop it

Shin doesn't need to claim right now, he needs to fucking exist though

Proto might need to claim depending on how the day goes but MAYBE NOT.

[Prims]

Yeah. see the following:

However if Poly or Refa is scum, which isn't -totally- impossible, not having the doc claim means they have to either guess which one the doc is, hope to outguess the doc, or make a weird kill and limit their mislynch options, which could potentially out them.

If both Proto and Shin are town it benefits us if neither claim, and just because that doesn't seem probable doesn't stop this from being the optimal play.