Reclass Mafia! Postgames are too much effort

[Belisarius]

You are still ultimately ignoring that I did vote who my strongest read was, and not pushed a secondary or even tertiary suspect as you called me out on in your original post.

I've already explained myself about this fully, ignore what you will.

[BBM]

VOTALS

FFM (4): SB, Randa, Rein/Juliette, Green Poet (L-1!)

Belisarius (2): kirsche, Ace

Rein/Juliette (1): Belisarius

SB (1): Elieson

Not Voting (1): FFM

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch. There are 9 hours and 15 minutes left in the phase.

[Zkirsche]

Don't like how GP says that FFM and Randa are null but scum exists amongst FFM, Rein/Juliette and Beli. If Randa isn't a scumdidate why is he null? Also wtf at going "noone other than FFM can be lycnhed today" with like 22 hours left in the phase.

I'm about 100% certain this is clear from my post, but I didn't vote Randa because I am more certain about Juliette.

Hmm, I meant to imply that your stuff on Randa seemed stronger than the stuff on Juliette by explaining why the Juliette read is weak. Also "convinced" is a very strong feeling and that isn't negated by putting the word "kinda" in front of it. Being "kinda convinced" is like saying you're almost certain.

If I don't like to or want to post cases

If you had to pick a randa case which sums up why you think he's scum best could you do it and explain why?

Also FFM is really bad at defending himself but he still isn't scum.

[Zkirsche]

FFM is town, the essay.

[spoiler=SB is tunneling hard]

The first two lines are basically fluff

The lines in question:

"It would be cool if FFM got lynched, but I think I'll vote for a recent sub despite finding Randa the most scummy player."

This...makes no sense at all but other people have noticed that so w/e. If he is scum he's not even trying to appear townie.

Making the same misinterpretation as others and calling someone out on it is not fluff.

they're attacking Juliette's post because they have multiple reads and talked about the one they didn't vote for first

The accusation is clearly that Juliette is just sheeping others and making the easiest vote, which is also what he accused Ace of doing last phase.

Also "Beli is an easy target and I want opinions on him" doesn't actually say what he thinks about him which is pretty bad.

He gave his opinion on Beli in his previous post so I'd assume not much has changed (although I admit concluding that someone is an inactive isn't great). Regardless, what does scum!FFM have to gain by waiting around for reactions?

And why can't Blitz go after inactives, isn't that what everyone is doing wrt Kinumi?

This is not the same. Koneko had zero content at the time Blitz voted her and Kinumi had multiple posts when we wagoned her.

What was the point of this is again?

To say he's wary of bear's slot I presume. Don't know if FFM has even bothered to read this post of yours though.

[spoiler=Why FFM is bad town being lazy]

First note what I wrote above about how scum!FFM has nothing to gain by, essentially, letting his sink ship without giving an alternative. If FFM was scum there's no reaosn no to vote one of Ace/Beli (assuming 4 scum they both can't be scum) who he's expressed distaste with in the past.

Being overly defensive is a trait many newb townies have. I'm null/leaning town concerning Ace, honestly.

You say passing comment, I say legitimate contribution to discussion. I'm especially ok with this as it was my thought of the discussion, at the time I saw no real problem with the defensiveness as I felt Ace was trying to scumhunt. The defensiveness was there, sure, but it was never a problem. The justification to his opinion is also spot-on:

If she were scum I have a feeling she would be more cautious/lurky and less defensive.

Another example of how FFM has been avoiding easy cases.

His reasoning for abstaining from making posts sounds too blatantly anti-town to be scummy.

WIFOMing aside, this is consistent with his opinion on how newbscum plays from earlier.

First you claim that overreactive newbs can be scum as well as town - and then you say you don't find PK or Ace scummy? What was the point in stating that first part?

Searching for padding in people's posts.

This seems defensive, but he does raise some good points about Randa, such as his poor justifications for his SB vote.

Looking at and considering other people's cases. This combined with the above is why I called him townier thsi game.

This post sounds self-conscious, especially since SB was hardly in danger of being lynched and his vote on Randa seemed a little like an OMGUS reaction. The unexplained un-vote on Randa only makes it look worse.

GP's Beli vote seemed really lazy - not really like her at all, if you'll excuse the meta. Doesn't help that Beli is an easy target right now.

Darros says a lot without actually posting anything of consequence. It feels as if he's merely feigning being active by berating the new players and posting surface-level reads and filler while defending himself.

Koneko, Kinumi and PK are null because inactivity. A vote on them would basically be a prod vote.

Poly seemed to be somewhat guilty of the same thing as Darros - targeting newbies, giving shallow reads, etc (also that self-meta thing was odd) but he subbed out so I'll give his sub a chance to improve his standing.

WOAH the kneejerk reaction from Beli. Like I said, he's an easy target right now (also over-defensiveness isn't really indicative of alignment for a newbie) so I'll see if he can post something constructive.

bearclaw is focusing a lot on Darros and Beli but otherwise there's nothing really scummy about him.

I shouldn't need to explain why making a post about his opinion on most of the people of the game is townie. None of them are super strong, sure, but that isn't uncommon for bad town. One small thing is a contradiction regarding overdefensiveness in newbtownies.

Stuff after that I've addressed in recent past, but a meh Blitz case and an arguably over-forgiving view of newbies does not scum make.

tl;dr Ace is just bad at defending himself and is very lazy at times but actually did try and give out reads and scumhunt. Scum wouldnn't have made it difficult for themselves by handwaving every newbie early on as just being newbie.

We should vote actual scum. Like Beli, or Ace. Maybe GP but I think I'm just mad at her for her recent comments. Her FFM vote is kinda bad as she never really expands on why FFM is worse, just that he's probably getting lycnhed either way (which wasn't necessarily true at the time of her post). I kinda wish I didn't get this burst of motivation with 5 hours left in the phase but what can you do.

[Zkirsche]

tl;dr FFM is just bad at defending himself and is very lazy at times but actually did try and give out reads and scumhunt. Scum wouldnn't have made it difficult for themselves by handwaving every newbie early on as just being newbie.

Fixed.

[Zkirsche]

she never really expands on why FFM is worse

Ok I admit that I didn't read past "FFM is probably getting lynched today" but really once you put that you've committed to voting FFM, so the stuff after is just to justify that decision more. If anything that's worse.

The reasoning is pretty poor as well, it's based on his most recent reply (when GP said she was going to reread him) and is basically just going "how can you find his stuff uninspired when everyone else* thinks he's town" *ignoring the people that have been scumreading him including but not limited to: Blitz, Cam, me, Elie. Sure, he should expand on the uninspired part, but considering the accusations of defensiveness and lack of read depth it's hardly unimaginable.

That GP vote is just a sheep vote that's been disguised as something other than a sheep vote. All of Juliette's stuff is well justified. Elie's defence of Beli is lame and easy (he's like Boron isn't convincing) but otherwise he's null. Bonus points for not hopping on the easiest wagon.

Lynch Priority:

Beli > Ace = GP >> Elie > Juliette > SB > FFM > Randa > Me

[Ace Tactician]

And once again, Beli's latest posts still don't instill me with any more confidence. I feel like he's just defending himself and barely bringing up cases.

Whoa, crunch time today.

[MRDRHAWK]

not playing

Kirsche, you keep forgetting Ace is female and referring to her as him.

Just pointing that out.

not playing

[Zkirsche]

Tbh thinking about it scum!Beli would probably try to lynch town!FFM over Juliette so ????.

[Zkirsche]

Kirsche, you keep forgetting Ace is female and referring to her as him.

Just pointing that out.

I was referring to FFM, who is a guy, but put Ace instead of FFM.

Who's down to turbo GP, what can go wrong? We're probs not getting claims either way.

[Zkirsche]

I am still down to lynch Beli though, one oddity is not enough to forgive all the scumminess and it's possible scum don't want to tie themselves to an easy lynch like this one.

@Ace: What do you make of Beli talking about how he doesn't want to make cases and his playstyle?

[SB.]

I can kind of see what you're saying now but really I don't feel like Beli has been particularly scummy?

I thought GP was okay earlier too so I'd rather not. The only person I would really be comfortable with turboing is Ace tbh.

[Ace Tactician]

@Ace: What do you make of Beli talking about how he doesn't want to make cases and his playstyle?

I get a strong laziness feel from reading those posts of Beli's, as you pointed out earlier Beli could pick out a case that sums up his suspicions if making his own is too tough. His playstyle appears to support this. Could also be lurking scum. I'd be up to turbo Beli tbh.

[SB.]

The most annoying thing with this inactivity is I feel like we're still basically in early Day 2 despite a third of the game being dead and a scumflip.I kind of want to massclaim tomorrow and see if we can break it through roles+3 nights of reports.

[Randa]

Sorry I've been useless this phase. I've kinda had shit I needed to do the last couple of days.

So opinions on people.

Would lynch:

Whoever the doctor is

FFM

Ace

Would consolidate if needed:

Beli(There is a possibility of this actually being nesscesary)

Wouldn't be thrilled lynching but kinda acceptable:

SB(So tunnelly dood)

GP

Probably wouldn't lynch:

Juliette

Kirsche

Elidondon OP:

Sara.

Me:

Janus bet Valnich

But yeah I should be around for deadline, so yeah that's my thoughts right now.

I'm a bit concerned on how hard Kirsche is defending FFM, but I kinda understand why. FFM does seem like an easy lynch to just hop on at this point so maybe thinking we're letting scum coast off an easy vote.

It's a bit weird that GP hasn't really given a strong scum read on FFM up till now and votes. She could easily tie it up on beli who she had voiced suspicion on since day 2.

Also of note, SB has been kinda tunelling Ace and FFM I'm a bit concerned we could be seeing Super Busser in work again.

[Zkirsche]

I can kind of see what you're saying now but really I don't feel like Beli has been particularly scummy?

Beli is scum, the essay:

[spoiler=I will lead us to victory]

I'm not going to respond every time someone says my name just for the sake of getting "called out."

This is fair but is still avoiding contributing to discussion productively. Going "stop asking me for content" isn't actually content nor is it that scummy. When told that scum wouldn't care about them not posting, Beli goes "am I not allowed to interpret something differently?" which is super easy and just avoiding justification. This vote was sat on all phase btw.

He does eventually justify it , but that's all he did - justify it, something he should have done at the start. He doesn't add anything new to the discussion and instead spends his first four posts voting and justifying the vote of Darros for what was essentially an off-hand commment. As for teh justification:

Asking for a read on demand is a spam post intended to look like you're participating

Yes, it's true that it's easy to ask people to post but that was not the only thing Darros had posted so it's not like he needed to spam up the thread. Admittedly, that Darros post was a bad one, but there was more to talk about and he clearly didn't bother checking it out. I don't like how he dismissed it as nothing worth replying to, because that means that I, bear, Darros and a lot of other people were replying to nothing.

I'm trying to get more information before I make a read I share.

This is fair, a lot of other sites play this way, but the next meaningful post happens 72 hours later and is a set of confusing and ironically weak reads. the PKL read was confusing, the read on me unjustified, his read on Randa was all over the place at the time too. His kinumi read was weak (part of the reasoning i interpret as "Kinumi is scum because Darros wasn't being defensive late phase" when she wasn't the only one who said that (I also did). Also, post-flip this looks bad as this is a weak reason to join the Kinumi wagon when Kinumi was already a sinking ship.

Everything else is recent stuff so cba to repeat it.

tl;dr Beli has weak or unjustified reads, downright avoids content where possible and has meh at best flipped scum interactions. Only thing going for him is that he didn't jump on the FFM wagon imo.

Tbh Beli is the only one that we can reasonably turbo so if this doesn't convince you then I guess we're lynching FFM. I'll be here for phase end but I'd really rather not lynch there.

[Zkirsche]

@Randa why would you lynch the doctor?

[Randa]

@Randa why would you lynch the doctor?

Because I was joking.

[Randa]

It makes me sad that I have to explain that.

[riariadne]

We've had enough real doctor lynches you can never tell.

I might say more stuff later but if Juliette gets to it first I won't.

[SB.]

randa scumslipped his doctor scumbuddy obviously.

do we actually have the numbers to lynch beli? I guess I can buy into it at this point but really I feel like I'm just on autopilot.

[Randa]

If we do have a scum!doc I will be pissed.

Tbh Beli is the only one that we can reasonably turbo so if this doesn't convince you then I guess we're lynching FFM. I'll be here for phase end but I'd really rather not lynch there.

Do you mean not lynch at deadline or that you would prefer a no lynch to an FFM lynch.

Anyways depending on the answer Kirsche could get us an FFM lynch. If he would prefer a no lynch it looks like it might just be me you and Julleite/rein. Meaning beli would be the only option to actually get a lynch.

[Zkirsche]

We have enough, Randa + rein/juliette + you = lynch.

[SB.]

Okay.

##Unvote

##Vote: Beli

[Randa]

I also think we should here claims from both of them at this point.