Reclass Mafia! Postgames are too much effort

[Ace Tactician]

Really don't like that post from Ace. Looking through her ISO it feels like she's voting on someone who should be null to her and I don't get why Beli over any of the other under the radar players like PKLucas or Kinumi?

I also find the "Darros was the fall guy" comment to be quite interesting since it came at a time that Darros' lynch had just been cemented and it kind of looks like damage control to me due to his flip, especially considering I don't think Ace tried to look at other lynches either? Who would you have lynched instead of Darros, had you got the chance to? Trying to guess the scum's nightkill reasoning is also kind of questionnable to me, what makes you think Cam was killed because of experience instead of him just being generally townie looking?

why the fuck are there so many anons viewing

I want to see how Beli reacts to a prod vote. If given the chance, I'd strongly consider a FFM or Kinumi lynch. Kinumi's post late to the D1 phase seem hastily put together and just asking to be picked apart. I also don't like how Kinumi had to be prodded by scorri just like Lucas was. It feels like she just decided to hop onto the Darros wagon since his lynch was looking very imminent. Plus, Kinumi's read of FFM felt swallow and not as detailed as your read of FFM, SB.

The reasoning behind my thoughts idle that vets like kirsche or Bear can be easily NK'd to leave mostly the newbies who would have a tougher time reading the vets since it would be a little tougher for newbies to recognize patterns in the vets posting styles. Plus, newbie players could be easily swayed by cases presented that look solid to bring a quick hammer down. I felt confident about Cam, he seems like town to me. I felt his Darros case was solid before the lynch and switch vote to Randa before the hammer was brought down.

FFFM also never answered your vote against him the second time around and the weak dismissal of your case against him the first time around still bugs me and is looking more credible.

##Unvote

##Vote FFM

[Kinumi]

okay so

since cam was nightkilled, this makes randa more suspicious in my eyes. cam was basically on top of randa during most of late phase so scum might have taken him out to "protect" randa

also agreeing with sb and ace that ffm skipping phase end is suspicious, he looks the scummiest to me right now

tbh I don't really have any strong scumreads on anybody which is reall ._, might look over ISOs again after showering though

I also don't like how Kinumi had to be prodded by scorri just like Lucas was.

understandable, but I completely forgot about the game between act homework and life stress. sorry about that.

It feels like she just decided to hop onto the Darros wagon since his lynch was looking very imminent.

his lynch would have happened even without my vote

I was looking over the thread a bit during night one and saw randa saying that we probably didn't need a hammer day one, but I missed that post when I voted darros since phone browsing sucks and by the time I noticed it was already phase end. I can see how this looks scummy though, so fair enough

Plus, Kinumi's read of FFM felt swallow and not as detailed as your read of FFM, SB.

I agreed with all the points brought against FFM, but I didn't want to basically repeat everything already said (since it would look like I'd be trying to inflate my post), which is why my post was so short

[Kinumi]

tbh I don't really have any strong scumreads on anybody which is really frustrating ._, might look over ISOs again after showering though

fixed

I swear I typed the whole thing out

[Randa]

[spoiler=me bitching about end of day 1]

So I Unvoted so we wouldn't hammer and might get some more conversation, but looking back nothing really was added so I kinda feel stupid right now

randa's votepark strikes me as self serving too

like he might not want to bring up a case against someone else when voting darros gets the same result of him not dying

I don't really like Kinumi's most recent post (probably b/c she hasn't followed up on it yet so there's not much content) but it was a lot of "this strikes me as odd," and not much else when she said she felt Randa looked like the scummiest before. The unvote makes me feel like she actually doesn't want to press without catching up though

the randa part felt like filler if anything

Baaaaa. Sheeping cam. Now what actually intrest me about this post is that despite the post talking about why I'm scummy, she leaves her vote on Darros. This was when it was still between me and Darros, so a switch wouldn't have been a bad move at this point. Also this came after being inactive for a good amount of time. The original Darros vote was also sheeping cam. But cam is/was town, so coincidence that both times it was sheeping cam? But most of their posts read like trying to avoid original content.

@Darros, shouldn't you say something about the two new posts of FFM since he is your 2nd scum read and not just end it with his wagoning post? (you say some stuff about him not alleviating suspicion, but, why do you say that)

also, I don't like how I haven't seen FFM and Beli for a while and Koneko and Kinumi should also post more

@Cam, I wouldn't want to turbo lynch SB cause his reactions are pretty nice (but meta says he is more likely scum, but could also be something else) and Darros looks like an overall better target. Also, Cam, why do you think there are only 3 scum members, wouldn't it make more sense to have 4?

@Ace and Randa, what is the point of voting Darros, isn't he already in enough pressure? wouldn't it be better to use your votes for something else like pressuring inactives and just agreeing that Darros is most likely scum right now and think of voting him near phase end?

that being said (of the 4 names to choose from, I will pick Koneko)

Unvote

##Vote: Koneko

you should really get back in here,

and some other people in the Darros wagon should also push for some more content before going back to Darros, IMO.

I think we addressed that this wasn't a good vote, so not gonna beat a dead horse.

I am not trying to avoid attention, I am trying to get some content in from the inactives before the lynch, (too bad it doesn't have any effect though), but be my guest at how you want to look at it.

and as for who to vote, if I voted for either Randa or Darros, it would actually be avoiding attention, cause it would be like planting a vote where it isn't needed (but like I said earlier, you can imagine my vote on Darros cause that is where I will leave it, before I go to sleep if unless something remarkable happens)

other than these two, every other person I can think of voting is inactive (or lurking) excepting maybe SB, but tell me, do you really think me voting SB would have any real effect in the game at the moment?

also, do you know of any other target I should be voting for to be productive, cause I would like to know what you think.

Okay I lied I will beat the dead horse a bit. This seems like blitz trying to distance himself from either lynch. That seems scummy to me. I can kinda understand why he did it. Okay no I really can't. Why vote an inactive is this situation? I'm not saying you have to vote the major wagons, but voting inactives achieves nothing. And voting SB would've done more, people had voiced suspicions in recent posts and it might've gone somewhere. Or nowhere. But there was a chance of it doing something.

[spoiler=SB's big ass wall post]

Time to tap into my inner Vhaltz and wallpost I guess.

I don't like Kinumi's #72 where she prods at PKLucas to post content when she hasn't really done so herself. It looks kind of like a way to seem involved without really contributing. This is made worse when she gets asked for opinions herself later in #86 and then doesn't have any so I feel like her prod was kind of hypocritical. When I pushed her for reads later they were also very minimal and kind of feels like picking easy reads for the sake of appeasing me that who she thinks is scum.

Looking back I feel better about Poly's early posts now, I kind of feel like rather than making posts like #77 he would've tried to attack Ace for it if he was scum rather than trying to help her out and explain things to her. Blitz is also probably town because of his improbable cases that he has a hard time faking as scum.

FFM is still a maflord even on the reread. Stuff like #90 just has him making passing comments and it doesn't really feel like he's involved with the game. He elaborates when pressured but it feels like that's most of his play this game, just responding to suspicions and echoing what others have already said. This post screams scum padding their arguments up, he has a waffly scumread on me (and doesn't explain why it reads as defensive either) but then sheeps my case and the shit at the end of his posts is blatant scum padding up their post imo. When I call him out on it his response was horrible too, yes it was early but it wasn't that early and other people had been managing decent amount of content rather than commenting on like 5 things in 150 posts. I have other problems with the post too but I think I already listed them somewhere so I'm not going to bother to repeat it at this point.

I still think PKLucas' early stuff is townie but I guess I can see the other side of the argument after GP's wifom comment and I'm not enthused by the fact he's really fallen off the face of the game at this point? I wouldn't lynch him but I want him to get back in here soon/ED2 and get some reads and stuff up because I'm drawing a blank on where he stands on the game fight now.

I'm feeling good about the Darros lynch. Stuff like #111 feels like he's trying to look proactive and explain game theory but there's very little in his posts as far as actual reads go. Shit like this reinforces it and feels like he's mudslinging towards the newbies without actually pointing any fingers explicitly. Like, I think this is his first serious vote of the game and it's super surface level and is picking on something easy rather than making an effort to catch scum. Still reminds me of his Doomsday play.

I don't feel bad about Randa's horrendous case on my earlygame anymore considering I've seen Blitz who is probably town himself pulling a similar thing and I still stand by the idea that Randa wouldn't have been in the spotlight so much as scum as I feel like his buddies would've been trying to push other cases to draw attention away from him? Despite momentum building against him he still continued to post and gave people more fuel to lynch him with instead of being like Darros and disappearing which probably would've been better for getting people off of his back or just waiting around for buddies to tell him how to get out of the mess he was in. Not interested in the lynch on this slot after all.

Feel like Cam is probably town. His early walls feel like effort-town and even though I think his case on me is meh I feel like he would've picked an easier suspicion to go off of because he would know I'm not realistically mislynchable.

I'm not fond of Beli's over-defensiveness but posts like this and this make me lean towards indignant town who doesn't like being pressured over scum attacking anyone who gets on their case.

bear is solid and I think this is the first time I'm townreading him for a reason other than roles. Weird. His Darros case is probably the most solid thing out of earlygame and really got the wagon rolling and the couple of spamposts that came after it solidifies it as more likely to be a townie than scum posting just to get it out there imo. The fact that he actively questions here despite actively taking issues with the wagon also makes me feel like he's not just scum trying to white knight a townie and that he's actively trying to think about the game.

I was paranoid of kirsche early on just because of vibes but I've felt better about him as time went on. His explanations of his cases and reads when questioned and the fact he's constantly drawing attention back to them in order to try and bring discussion in when he could've flied under the radar comfortably makes me feel he's probably town. I'd say if Darros flips scum bear looks better than him, but otherwise he's probably the towniest player in the game imo.

I'm at the end of 15 and can't be bothered to do anymore tbh. I pretty much have nulls on all the other slots, Ace is just really difficult to read through the defensiveness, GP is okay but not particularly townie after reconsidering her posts and the others feel like too much of a background presence to get a read on.

Scummiest are FFM > Darros > Kinumi, towniest being kirsche/bear>Blitz/Randa>Cam

I actually don't have any problems with this post ATM. I will reread later, but just holy shit it took me longer to read and think over that whole thing than making the rest of this post. gg retinas.

## Vote: PKLucas

Right now seems to have all the bad as FFM, but less experienced. I'm going to keep it here until I get a chance to go over FFM's post, which will probably be in the morning.

[Kinumi]

I am actually going out to an amusement park with friends tomorrow, so I won't be able to post for the majority of the day :I

[Juliette]

Here I am! Let's get some stuff from my first read through out of the way. I will admit I have so far only looked really hard into some of the earlier pages, but I do want to get a few of my opinions out for now.

Ace's super early stuff comes off as pretty suspicious to me because of the big reactions. I guess, as people pointed out, that by itself is not necessarily indicative of alignment among new players, but to me it felt like was biting and defensive in a way that didn't seem townie to me, so I think it is worth keeping in mind.

PKLucas's early posts are a bit the same in that cautiousness isn't really a sure sign but the way it was gone about seem so forced to me. Stuff like post 104 rub me the wrong way with "could steer town in the wrong direction" feeling like fearing commitment to a read, as an example. Plus the focus on out of game stuff doesn't feel right with me, because there are plenty of points of discussion based on what is in the game.

Randa's first vote seems to be on way too shaky of grounds. Much of his early posts feel like they are going super hard on Poly and SB for poor reasons and trying too much to look to expound those cases, not really try and search for mafia in a constructive manner. I am not really sure how I feel about his later content yet but I want to look at it more closely.

FFM has been called out a few times already but he feels like he is trying to cruise right on through the game easily and hasn't had much real input, which is worth some consideration. Honestly I haven't noticed him much so far, but that's probably not a good thing, either.

Geez, posting isn't easy! For now, I will ##Vote: PKLucas since I feel most strongly about him. Maybe I will post again in the next few hours but I can't be sure, beauty sleep and all that!

[Green Poet]

Busy day today, sorry. I'll have a content post in the morning.

[Green Poet]

Some thoughts first, actually. Leaving the thread with just that would be meh.

Ace's recent Beli vote doesn't sit well with me. Her issues with FFM and Beli are their lack of posting, which aren't superb cases in themselves, but why is Beli > FFM when she notes that FFM promised upcoming content, whereas Beli made no such commitment? The reasoning here doesn't reflect her lynch priority, and it's also odd in that it doesn't consider FFM or Beli's words and rather just their recent lack of them.

I wouldn't call this surely scummy behavior, but it's not ideal scumhunting.

I want to see how Beli reacts to a prod vote.

A prod vote loses what weight it does have if it's moved to someone else. Beli likely didn't even see your previous vote before this one, and we know he didn't post a reaction.

As it stands, Ace changing her vote after SB's post just reads like appeasement.

The reasoning behind my thoughts idle that vets like kirsche or Bear can be easily NK'd to leave mostly the newbies who would have a tougher time reading the vets since it would be a little tougher for newbies to recognize patterns in the vets posting styles. Plus, newbie players could be easily swayed by cases presented that look solid to bring a quick hammer down.

Why is this an issue? Newbie players are just as likely to roll scum as experienced ones in any game, so being led to a mislynch is inevitable. . . unless you have reason to believe there's a higher concentration of scum in the experienced players here?

Baaaaa. Sheeping cam. Now what actually intrest me about this post is that despite the post talking about why I'm scummy, she leaves her vote on Darros. This was when it was still between me and Darros, so a switch wouldn't have been a bad move at this point. Also this came after being inactive for a good amount of time. The original Darros vote was also sheeping cam. But cam is/was town, so coincidence that both times it was sheeping cam? But most of their posts read like trying to avoid original content.

Cam being town doesn't make his reads right, so trying to clear or otherwise determine the alignment of people who sheeped him based on this is extremely limited in effectiveness.

This post by Kinumi feels insubstantial. I see two game-related thoughts expressed in it:

1. Kinumi thinks Randa is probably scum because Darros was lynched by the influence of Randa's scumbuddies. Without a vote analysis that specifically points to people on the Darros wagon as possible scum through interactions, there's nothing that makes Randa more likely than not to be scum.

2. Kinumi agrees with the FFM cases. Nothing original. At best, a reason to sheep an increasingly popular FFM wagon later down the line.

##Vote: Kinumi

I see post padding, a case that's realistically unsupported, and an attempt to set up an easy wagon hop.

Going to go over the FFM cases in the morning. He has a tendency to become a popular lynch for the first days of every game I remember, which has been more likely than not to lead to his mislynch.

[Blitz]

kirsche, where do you stand now that Darros turned out to be town. I was going to ask Cam but since I didn't think much on his standing on who the scum might be(I can't now due to Cam having been NK'd)

Ace, why do you only ask Kirsche (and mention Cam) about this? iirc, me, Bear and Beli are also responsible for it.

now, then,

@GP, I guess I should have included links, but will be doing that this time,

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48810&view=findpost&p=3228080

this is SB's post to which Poly reacted in this post (okay, I had made a mistake, I thought SB had voted there too)

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48810&page=5#entry3228121

which obviously was a terrible reaction

and the next thing I asked was is Randa's vote on SB

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48810&view=findpost&p=3228221

to which SB reacts with

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48810&page=7#entry3228256

and the real question is, what is your take on these reactions, GP?

@Randa, you say I should have voted SB, but what do you think it would have achieved?

the way I see it, it would have done nothing better, but I would like you to try and prove me wrong

and as for your point about me distancing myself from either lynch, what is your take on me saying "I wanted Darros lynched and will vote him before I leave"?

now off to bear hunting

@Bear, I would like you to respond to my question regarding who wouldn't have been an inactive vote, but would have helped finding scum for me, cause for now, your post about saying me being weird looks like easy content. While you are at it, do mention how you think it would have helped cause Randa's points about why I should have voted SB are also easy content.

##Vote: Bear

also, the inactives should really get in here

[Blitz]

why the heck is the thread dead???

if you guys are anon/guest viewing, you guys should really get in here and post, like say, what you thought of the lynch yesterday, whose push you think was bad and stuff like that, but seriously, don't kill the thread (we have a record of 19 pages okay, more like 16 and we should totally keep the game up)

don't tell me sf actually failed again

[Randa]

Some thoughts first, actually. Leaving the thread with just that would be meh.

Ace's recent Beli vote doesn't sit well with me. Her issues with FFM and Beli are their lack of posting, which aren't superb cases in themselves, but why is Beli > FFM when she notes that FFM promised upcoming content, whereas Beli made no such commitment? The reasoning here doesn't reflect her lynch priority, and it's also odd in that it doesn't consider FFM or Beli's words and rather just their recent lack of them.

I wouldn't call this surely scummy behavior, but it's not ideal scumhunting.

A prod vote loses what weight it does have if it's moved to someone else. Beli likely didn't even see your previous vote before this one, and we know he didn't post a reaction.

As it stands, Ace changing her vote after SB's post just reads like appeasement.

Why is this an issue? Newbie players are just as likely to roll scum as experienced ones in any game, so being led to a mislynch is inevitable. . . unless you have reason to believe there's a higher concentration of scum in the experienced players here?

So from all of this is Ace a null or a scum red for you. Might just be my brain not working, but it seems to go from null to null leaning scum, to scum. But I can't read minds (otherwise I would win this game every time). Just clarify on what you think about Ace please.

Cam being town doesn't make his reads right, so trying to clear or otherwise determine the alignment of people who sheeped him based on this is extremely limited in effectiveness.

It doesn't, but it does eliminate potential buddying which popped into my head. Then I remembered cam was town. So it might be scum trying to set up a fall on cam, or just coincidence, or just like cams opinions, or something I haven't even thought of. But I find it interesting that they sheeped cam both times, but the problem is the majority of their post lack original content. Not so much who they sheeped.

@Randa, you say I should have voted SB, but what do you think it would have achieved?

the way I see it, it would have done nothing better, but I would like you to try and prove me wrong

and as for your point about me distancing myself from either lynch, what is your take on me saying "I wanted Darros lynched and will vote him before I leave"?

Cam and Kirsche had both voiced suspicions heading into the end of the day. It probably wouldn't have gone full out lynch, but it would've given us something to discuss. Voting inactives, achieves nothing and has no possibility of achieving anything. That's the problem I have with it.

now off to bear hunting

@Bear, I would like you to respond to my question regarding who wouldn't have been an inactive vote, but would have helped finding scum for me, cause for now, your post about saying me being weird looks like easy content. While you are at it, do mention how you think it would have helped cause Randa's points about why I should have voted SB are also easy content.

##Vote: Bear

This part could've been addressed to any person who had a problem with your vote.

So blitz, Does bear not agreeing with your vote make him scum? Or at lest scummy enough to warrant a vote over the lurkers?

also, the inactives should really get in here

why the heck is the thread dead???

if you guys are anon/guest viewing, you guys should really get in here and post, like say, what you thought of the lynch yesterday, whose push you think was bad and stuff like that, but seriously, don't kill the thread (we have a record of 19 pages okay, more like 16 and we should totally keep the game up)

don't tell me sf actually failed again

I think most of us just live in similar time zones, and so we all sleep around the same time. Least that's what I think it is. Also 174/352 (I think) actual post have been made by four people. And two of them are dead. I also didn't realize I had posted this much.

Also

Inactives should get in here a post

I can't agree with this sentiment enough. I would vote one of you, but I already am. Actually I would vote all of you if I could and thought it would get you to post.

[Randa]

:/ Why didn't my quote work. .cri

[Zkirsche]

Regarding SB's wallpost: his Kinumi case is good and sheepable, her reads are pretty easy and I think that she was holding her vote at the end of last phase to see which one of Darros/Randa she should vote for instead of just placing it on the scummiest one right off the bat.

Still not seeing the FFM suspicion though, his defence is probably the only questionable thing about him imo. He never said he had a scumread on you, he just called you defensive. The fact that you interpreted it as a scumread kinda proves that you are being defensive. Maybe he is echoing others, but even in choosing who to echo you are putting effort into analysing the game. He does need to make a content post now though, but he's not the only one that that applies to right now and there's worse offenders than him.

The rest is well justified townreads, though I can't say I agree with all of it. It's nice to finally get some effort into this game (and yes SB your presence before this was very weak), so I'm a happier with him.

Echoing what I posted yesterday before D1 phase end about Darros being set as the D1 fall guy, his play style made for the perfect opportunity for scum to put together solid material for a mislynch, especially considering the newbies who aren't familiar yet with the posting styles of the veteran players.

This bugs me a little as you were one of the ones who swung the lynch in Darros' direction. What do you think of the people who voted Darros then, which voters are the opportunistic scum and why?

I want to see how Beli reacts to a prod vote

Well that ended up being a waste of time. Not sure what to make of this post as a whole as it's pretty much just appeasement to SB. Ace, do you still find SB suspicious? If not, why and who aside from FFM is (because apparently Beli isn't actually a scumread)?

Right now seems to have all the bad as FFM, but less experienced. I'm going to keep it here until I get a chance to go over FFM's post, which will probably be in the morning.

Doesn't that make FFM worse then, as he should know better? Also is PKLucas only scummy because he's been sheeping Cam because that's a really weak scumread to start D2 off with.

Man I was happier with you but this just hit the reset button, the stuff you wrote about Blitz is good enough for a vote but instead you voted an inactive even after you said it achieves nothing.

Speaking of Blitz, he seems to have forgotten Sb entirely as well. I agree that SB is better but for holding your vote on him for so long you don't seem very keen to analyse his stuff.

GP's and Juliette's stuff is fine, nothing too disagreeable I suppose. I would comment on how GP didn't mention Beli but Beli hasn't posted in forever and should probably get a prod. Those needing content posts (Beli/PKL/FFM) should start by analysing Ace's recent posts, the FFM cases and the Kinumi cases. Kinumi needs to actually commit to a read with a vote, I know she says they're not strong but it's important that you put your money where your mouth is and she isn't doing that.

##Vote: Kinumi

Kinumi > Randa >> SB > Beli

[Zkirsche]

Randa don't cut me.

That post doesn't have as much useful content as it appears and you continue to make this weird hypocrisy about the pointlessness of voting lurkers while encouraging everyone to vote them:

Voting inactives, achieves nothing and has no possibility of achieving anything. That's the problem I have with it.

"Voting lurkers is bad"

Or at lest scummy enough to warrant a vote over the lurkers?

"Why are you voting bear over the lurkers?"

[Randa]

Randa don't cut me.That post doesn't have as much useful content as it appears and you continue to make this weird hypocrisy about the pointlessness of voting lurkers while encouraging everyone to vote them:"Voting lurkers is bad""Why are you voting bear over the lurkers?"

No the point I was trying to make is voting lurkers with less 24 hours in a phase is bad. Not voting them in general. And then don't like his defense of his vote. Did you agree with timing of his vote on koneko Kirsche.

Also it seems like I wrote more because my quote failed. So it's looks like there's more than there actually is. And I still don't see the formatting problem with it, can somebody tell what went wrong.

Regarding SB's wallpost: his Kinumi case is good and sheepable, her reads are pretty easy and I think that she was holding her vote at the end of last phase to see which one of Darros/Randa she should vote for instead of just placing it on the scummiest one right off the bat.

Still not seeing the FFM suspicion though, his defence is probably the only questionable thing about him imo.

He never said he had a scumread on you, he just called you defensive.

The fact that you interpreted it as a scumread kinda proves that you are being defensive.

Maybe he is echoing others, but even in choosing who to echo you are putting effort into analysing the game.

He does need to make a content post now though, but he's not the only one that that applies to right now and there's worse offenders than him.

The rest is well justified townreads, though I can't say I agree with all of it.

It's nice to finally get some effort into this game (and yes SB your presence before this was very weak), so I'm a happier with him.

Nothing wrong with this part just wanna know if the bolded is addressed to FFM or SB.

Doesn't that make FFM worse then, as he should know better?

Also is PKLucas only scummy because he's been sheeping Cam because that's a really weak scumread to start D2 off with.

Man I was happier with you but this just hit the reset button, the stuff you wrote about Blitz is good enough for a vote but instead you voted an inactive even after you said it achieves nothing.

Again don't mix up what I said, I was talking about voting inactives at the time Blitz did, not in general. Also I should point out the fact that I still have to reread FFM and see how he looks on a second/third read without bias from reading through quotes of people making cases against him. And now I think I think he is scummy, because the only post he's made have been sheeping, and they've been few and infrequent. That's my problem, I just found that he sheeped the same person interesting. Also look at myasthenia post to know why I mentioned that fact.

Speaking of Blitz, he seems to have forgotten Sb entirely as well.

I agree that SB is better but for holding your vote on him for so long you don't seem very keen to analyse his stuff.

Valid point. Still don't think I'm gonna vote blitz right now. Predominately cause he's actually on and doesn't need to be forced to post.

GP's and Juliette's stuff is fine, nothing too disagreeable I suppose.

I would comment on how GP didn't mention Beli but Beli hasn't posted in forever and should probably get a prod.

Those needing content posts (Beli/PKL/FFM) should start by analysing Ace's recent posts, the FFM cases and the Kinumi cases. Kinumi needs to actually commit to a read with a vote, I know she says they're not strong but it's important that you put your money where your mouth is and she isn't doing that.##Vote: KinumiKinumi > Randa >> SB > Beli

No problems here. Kirsche stills reads as town to me, for all of those who were wondering.

[Randa]

His reasoning for abstaining from making posts sounds too blatantly anti-town to be scummy.

First you claim that overreactive newbs can be scum as well as town - and then you say you don't find PK or Ace scummy? What was the point in stating that first part?

This seems defensive, but he does raise some good points about Randa, such as his poor justifications for his SB vote.

Kirsche and Darros seem antagonistic but that's par for the course. I still stand by my Ace = Newb Town assessment, especially since she seems to be contributing well since the AtE earlier. Belasarius, Kinumi, Koneko and PK need moar content. Everyone else is null.

##Unvote

##Vote: Randa

I think we've addressed this enough.

Darros/Cam: What I meant was that Randa didn't find PK/Ace scummy despite making a statement beforehand that suggested the opposite. Felt contradictory and unnecessary to what he was saying at the time, particularly to his read on Ace. And my read on PK wasn't a free pass - he wasn't even trying to appear pro-town and freely admitted it himself. Scum would be less blatant about that.

It could be WIFOM, but I'll wait until he posts more before continuing my read on him.

SB: Again, it was still early in the game and there was very little to go on.

now for dem READS

This post sounds self-conscious, especially since SB was hardly in danger of being lynched and his vote on Randa seemed a little like an OMGUS reaction. The unexplained un-vote on Randa only makes it look worse.

GP's Beli vote seemed really lazy - not really like her at all, if you'll excuse the meta. Doesn't help that Beli is an easy target right now.

Darros says a lot without actually posting anything of consequence. It feels as if he's merely feigning being active by berating the new players and posting surface-level reads and filler while defending himself.

Koneko, Kinumi and PK are null because inactivity. A vote on them would basically be a prod vote.

Poly seemed to be somewhat guilty of the same thing as Darros - targeting newbies, giving shallow reads, etc (also that self-meta thing was odd) but he subbed out so I'll give his sub a chance to improve his standing.

WOAH the kneejerk reaction from Beli. Like I said, he's an easy target right now (also over-defensiveness isn't really indicative of alignment for a newbie) so I'll see if he can post something constructive.

bearclaw is focusing a lot on Darros and Beli but otherwise there's nothing really scummy about him.

Also how close is Randa to being hammered? Not sure I want this day to get cut short.

This really doesn't do anything for me. It reads as a lot of fluff. Not a whole lot said about anything, nothing is backed by quotes or specific examples. I didn't get hammered. At least not in game. This strikes as scum looking to appear helpful and active. Also these are the only two content post he's had, so that doesn't sit well with me either. Pretty much the same exact problems I have with PK, only as I said earlier FFM is not new to the game. This is when multiple votes would really come in handy. I think both of them are really scummy right now. FFM doesn't really have an excuse, not being new is a good one, so.

##unvote

##Vote:FFM

Also scum read flow chart

FFM >/= PK > Blitz >Majority of game> Bear> Kirsche> Hiddens> Me.

[charlie_]

Ace, the response to getting questioned about your vote ISN'T to just go and sheep that person instead. It feels kind of like trying to appease me and saying it was a prodvote feels like an easy way out.

Kinumi is still sat on the sidelines. She keeps saying that she needs to reread and stuff like that but doesn't really seem to have any evidence of doing that in her posts which bugs me a lot. It feels like newbscum not wanting to commit themselves to a case more than anything else right now. Would lynch here if I can't get FFM today.

I'm kind of struggling to keep up with Randa's posts tbh, I don't think I would have any clue what his priorities were if he didn't make a list later on, not really fond of that.

@kirsche, I do feel like I'm kind of a weaker presence than usual because I don't really have people to bounce off of like I usually do and it's hard to read into half the playerlist very well between activity and general newness. I don't think I was THAT unmemorable though.

I also wouldn't so much mind FFM's echoing but I don't remember a single read he's given that doesn't seem to have been sheeped from others, explicitly or otherwise.

[Ace Tactician]

Arighty, I've got a lot to say and not enough time left in my half hour lunch break to type it all, but looking over at Juliette's read of me, I don't like how she only mentioned my early screw ups and never addressed fully my posts after that point, feels like a surface read that can go deeper.

I also wanted to hear what Beli's current scum reads were now that Darros is/was town since he vote parked on Darros and slipped off. Lucas is also starting to look funny for a similar pattern like Kinumi, I'll look further into both of those cases after I get off work and ferry my Grandmother to the bank.

[Blitz]

@Kirsche, I haven't forgotten Kirsche and my thoughts on SB at the moment is that he is a Jennie who will magically appear every time someone who is town mentions him and will appease us with his services. (was trying to see if he would get in here by himself)

I also have another thought on him, but I would prefer keeping that to myself regarding his wall post

@Ace, you didn't answer my question

now for the main event

@Randa, what you said about my point could be addressed to anyone who didn't like my vote is WRONG. It can only be addressed to anyone with WEAK content and almost no scum reads like yours and Bears. If Kirsche has a problem with it, I obviously cannot address this point.

next you say I should Prod vote a lurker, but isn't Bear being a lurker too atm?

also, aren't you one of the people who was arguing that I should use my vote to find scum? since that is exactly what I am doing, why are you more interested that I prod vote?

next up, that Prod vote of mine (with less than 24hrs left) worked a lot better than you think, cause thanks to that, we are having this conversation now

as for if I was voting SB, he probably just would have made that wall post he did earlier BUT what is important is, WHY would you care if SB was voted, he wasn't even one of your scum reads?

ALSO, tell me what more content could have been obtained if I voted SB. And for the record, I found Darros worse than SB, so I would have preferred a Darros lynch anyways.

[Blitz]

fudge sickles that second Kirsche should have been SB, lol

[Da Bear]

My laptop's hard drive is corrupted so computer posting is out. generating content on my phone is really time consuming and I'm fairly busy so content will be late night if at all.

I fail to understand how I'm a lurker for being asleep last night and busy this morning btw

[Da Bear]

Seriously considering placing my vote on blitz for that last content post but I'm going to case him tonight so I'll wait until then.

[FrostyFireMage]

After reading Randa's ISO however my opinion on him has improved. After the weird reasoning for his first vote he seems to have been responding to questions satisfactorily and has been participating well, plus giving reasonable opinions on multiple players.

Really don't like Blitz's posts while looking through his ISO. It feels like he's doing a combination of answering questions (#3231220) and making basic reads and prod-votes (#3232455). Basically his posts look full of content but are really full of waffling. Also his votes on SB/Koneko feel really weak.

Also not liking Kinumi. Non-committal + basic observations feels like newb-scum. Blitz seems scummier to me however.

##Vote: Blitz

Also how is missing phase end scummy? I'm sure it wouldn't have changed the outcome much if at all.

Probably shouldn't leave this game on a tab while I'm busy elsewhere...

[Belisarius]

Kirsche - Seems town, cute and trusting face. 10/10.

PKLucas - A lot of passive post language, especially early on. Kinda sheeped Day 1. Leaning town.

Janus - Cam being the first kill makes him look awfully suspicious, though that could be the intention. Only other thing I'm seeing out of the ordinary with Janus is the swing when he and Darros were close in votes. Leaning town.

Ace - Only one consistently harping on my "overreaction." Has mentioned it in quite a few of her posts and considering I probably should have been one of the easier targets last phase it feels like a mafia push. Leaning scum but not dedicated to it.

Kinumi - Posting a lot of filler things that aren't part of the game (I forgot about the game, I'm going out with friends). I don't understand it. The vote on Darros in the "I forgot about the game post" put Darros at L1 and just didn't make sense in the context of her post (she said Darros was focused on defending himself when he really didn't even try to). Probably mafia.

##Vote - Kinumi

[Blitz]

@FFM, my vote on SB was a reaction test. Since you are here and also think my Koneko vote was bad, I will have to ask you the same question, who do you think I should have voted instead of Koneko at that point that would have given better results (and what results would we have gotten) and that person cannot be one of the inactives and cannot be one of the wagons cause I already said I will leave my vote on Darros before I left. If you cannot answer that, make a better case and while you are at it, tell me where I am waffling instead of just giving an in general thought.

Your points are almost as bad as Randa's