Tyne-Wear Mafia - Where Are They Now? Special Bonus 2016 Update

[MRDRHAWK]

okay I was just asleep so gimme a minute

wrt my not liking Weapons yesterday before my switch onto Randa: I disliked how it felt like he was all over the place, and nothing he suggested (like ED1 massclaim in a supposedly bastard game) seemed to have any real town intent to them (though, if he called for it on, like, D3, I'd have been okay with it). That said, I do feel better about him after yesterday so *shrug*.

Strawman's thoughts are also somewhat disjointed, kind of like Weapons', but I feel like he's actually got town intent behind it and it's probably just his meta.

SB looks a bit worse upon reread since he kinda waffled on Paper and didn't even bother trying to place his vote on another wagon despite him being one of the main wagons in his own right. Going back to his initial dislike of Paper, he admitted to missing stuff and retracted some of his read, but I don't see how Cam was worse than Paper at the time. His posting style in general also feels really off to me in this game. Like, I dunno if this is ScumBuddy level weird, but he's got a pretty long ISO and a lot of it feels like ehhhhhhhhhhhhh stuff to me for reasons I can't put my finger on. Probably would lynch if Marth is less sus.

Speaking of Cam, I'm actually kind of null on him. He had a lot of fluff early on (though, to be fair, we all did), his recent posts read more like... well, like Cam posts, and they don't seem to be coming from scum!Cam.

Paper's ISO sucks for associative reads but whatever.

Shin makes good points on the idea that if Marth is scum, then Frosty's "defense" of him makes him seem townier. I still wanna reread Shin's ISO again, but I don't think I'd lynch him anytime soon.

Blitz is pretty blatant in what he'd be; obvtown if Marth is scum, and obvscum if Marth is town. I GUESS they could have pulled a 1v1 for towncred like Junko/Eury in Training but I don't know if either of them would have been down for that plan.

Reinette, Scorri and Bear need to exist. Haven't bothered with reads on other people.

Vote stays where it is for now.

[charlie_]

Why do you feel better about Weapons?

My vote would've gone onto the wagons had phase ended when it was supposed to and not as 4 in the morning. And if I was scum, would I not want to put my vote down on a wagon to make it harder to lynch me instead? I was unsure on Paper and wanted to get more content out of him (and he said he would be doing that closer to deadline) because I was worried if I was being biased or not since his read was on me.

Please explain why this isn't scum!Cam, because they feel very different to what I'm used to.

[Zkirsche]

I'm not quite understanding the fascination with me, although I am incredibly handsome!

Tbh I'm probably tunnelling at this point, but I really don't get why it's necessary to justify why Beli is different from the other inactives? I guess I feel like it's overjustified which is kinda weak looking back at it. I''m kind of wary of you because the lynch was going your way and then suddenly everyone gained town reads on you for like no reason and then town was lynched. Gut says scum counterwagoned.

why is this important again if Weapons said he was just reaction testing?

It isn't, but some people were going on about how weapons was scummy for asking for a massclaim because it's like rolefishing. This discussion is outdated, basically.

@kirsche, why did Paper's #360 make you feel better about him?

Well, Paperscum has trouble getting motivated, but I felt like that post had motivation in it. I had to see more to get anything definitive.

Sb makes a good point about Prims' association with Marth and Paper. Blitz makes some good points about FFM. Marth is probably scum for what Blitz said and his odd choice of rolecop. Blitz, and I guess by extension weapons, is wrong about my scum meta. There are plenty of games where I don't post much as town and am demotivated. Shining Force 3 and MLP are examples. I feel like he's basing my scum meta solely of reclass and my town meta solely off Conspiracy when they were both games that I played exceptionally well in.

Cam is still bad for putting in 0 effort. ##Vote: Cam

Scum

Marth

Cam

FFM

Shin

Poly (Rapier's case was good)

Strawman (gut)

Beli/R+J/Scorri/bear

Refa

SB

Prims

Weapons

Blitz

Rapier

kirsche

Town

[charlie_]

I guess the reason itself is okay but the action makes me uncomfortable. And that vote has 0 effort behind it, and you've only really made passing comments on Cam before. Why is he your top scumread?

I was gonna write this earlier but I was waiting on a response first:

I don't really like kirsche atm. I feel like he should've known Randa's meta better from being his buddy last game (and it was pretty different) and it feels like he doesn't really consider the possibility of town!Randa in his posts very much. The way he dropped Paper when he started to come under fire reminds me of how he treated his buddy last game too; with the lack of initial reasoning given here reminding me of how FFM was totally town on "gut" last game (and while the reason he gave just now is okay I suppose, it's not strong enough to justify dropping Paper entirely imo and the timing of it seems opportunistic.)

[Zkirsche]

you've only really made passing comments on Cam before. Why is he your top scumread?

Well I don't need to write an essay to say that Cam's playing to his scum meta of putting in no effort, which I have mentioned in passing before (although I am guilty of only analysing reclass/conspiracy, if he can provide examples of where his play was like this as town then I'll let him off a bit)

(and it was pretty different)

Explain how because I still believe that his play was pretty similar at a glance: not a lot of content until prodded, when he goes overtime to prove his innocence.

I didn't drop paper entirely it's just he wasn't really scummy enough to be worth mentioning. I was still going to keep an eye on him and wanted others to talk about him more (see: Shin interaction).

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Will be gone all day

[Strawman]

Don't like JoaT claim or claimed Rapier target for rolecop by Marth. Would be okay with lynch.

Feeling worse about Prims and SB. Don't like Paper's vote park on SB. I don't see the whole SB could have been a wagon thing as a way to disassociate them. Even though I would have accepted an SB vote, i highly doubt it would have gone anywhere. Also Paper wasn't exactly pushing it very hard, not that he was around much to do so.

Prims' move from Shin to Paper was weird. Had a town read on Randa, but was ok with him dying, but never voting him and becoming a part of the lynch.

[charlie_]

Very different was probably kind of an overstatement but his later phase actions didn't really make sense from scum trying to survive, with the vanilla claim and him jumping on me instead of Shin when I feel like he would've just gone for the bigger wagon as scum and hoped enough people would jump on it, but you barely said anything on him at all and just kind of let the lynch happen, yet he was still your second priority somehow?

Strawman: rather than saying Paper COULD have been bussing me, what makes it more likely that he WAS bussing me than trying to mislynch me? Also even if Prims was neutral on Randa dying, why would you expect him to outright vote on his townread over a counterwagon?

[Strawman]

The fact that he made no effort to come back and actually push your lynch closer to end, or at all once he made it. His lack of activity makes it difficult, honestly, because you can just chalk it up to him not being around or being busy. Incentive not to move it as scum would be 1. He's still on a wagon, not just some random single vote by itself so he still looks like he's helping, and 2. you were safely not getting lynched. It was obvious everyone was going to jump on Randa at the time at least in my opinion.

The counterwagon wasn't going to happen. It had first been tried by Randa and everyone thought that was ridiculous, so it was a safe place to put his vote. Also, this is semantics but I wouldn't call him "neutral" on Randa's lynch.He was for it in words, and neutral in actions. If he was going to voice support of it, why wouldn't I expect him to vote for it?

[Strawman]

Though granted for Randa it was to make people/Paper talk and wasn't a serious turbolynch suggestion, but people still freaked out at him. Also the separate contexts of pre and post extension.

[charlie_]

Yes, but what stops Paper from keeping his vote on me in order to distance himself from the mislynch of the day? You're posting why he might want to bus, but not why he would prefer it over getting town!me mislynched or avoiding flak for the Randa wagon.

I'm pretty sure townreading someone but being okay with their lynch to get people to talk about other things later counts as being neutral, but eh.

[Prims]

I don't buy Marf's updated claim; it requires scum to have specifically chosen to hijack him to the kill target which is an unusual decision unless they wanted to frame him, but if they wanted to frame somebody they would've picked a more common suspect likely to be tracked. Marth is a particularly random choice. I guess Driver is possible, but why swap BBM with Rapier and not a more ideal kill target if you were using it as an effective strongman?

[charlie_]

If Marth did turn out to be town tbh I would suspect Blitz of being a Hijacker who forced Marth towards the kill target so he could claim he tracked him for a fake guilty, but I'd say that's unlikely considering Marth's claim being full of holes.

[Prims]

that also requires scum to have a tracker fake which is weird when they already have a watcher

[Strawman]

Yes, but what stops Paper from keeping his vote on me in order to distance himself from the mislynch of the day? You're posting why he might want to bus, but not why he would prefer it over getting town!me mislynched or avoiding flak for the Randa wagon.

I'm pretty sure townreading someone but being okay with their lynch to get people to talk about other things later counts as being neutral, but eh.

Because Randa was the popular lynch option with more people saying they had scumreads/didn't like Randa, easier than trying to push your mislynch, and why push a different mislynch harder than necessary if he is already off arguable the most suspected person?

Pretty sure I did post on that matter(second bolded statement)

[Belisarius]

anyway, ##Vote: Belisarius for the awful Randa vote and Randa focus from last phase.

I'd rather have an "awful Randa vote" than a no lynch, Randa was the only person who had any likelihood of getting lynched. You might recall you did the exact same thing. It's pretty likely you're getting lynched so I'm not sure what you're trying to pull by voting me.

Prims - Pushed paper day one. Does stuff. Looks town as fuck atm.

SB - Paper was kinda trying to push his wagon, doubt it was a bus, so this gives SB some credibility.

Shin - I hate to say it but I with the way that three way wagon built (and crumbled and swung) I thought there was a mafia player amongst it, and that leaves Shin since Randa is cleared and SB has some cred. Still think he has the worst arguments against him, so I'll read null but I GOT MAH EYE ON YOU

Rapier - gutread mafia. doc claim was funny and i liked the responses it got. not sure what my problem with him is

Bear/scorri - Would kill if I was vig. Not voting is so overtly mafia it hurts me on the inside.

[Belisarius]

Bluedoom is Marth right?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Nvm, will be here-ish

[charlie_]

@Straw: So he could make up some shit about how the Randa wagon was pushed heavily by scum to block my lynch? It'd make him look better if he called the wagon bad and kept as far away from it as possible regardless of my alignment.

Bear/scorri - Would kill if I was vig. Not voting is so overtly mafia it hurts me on the inside.

-Belisarius, the voteless mafia member. If they haven't been able to read or keep up with the game what would be the point in them voting at random? Like, I won't disagree that they're bad vig targets just based on activity levels but this is a bad reason for it.

Why do you think that there had to have been a mafia member being wagoned d1? Isn't it possible all of them were townies?

[Belisarius]

Why do you think that there had to have been a mafia member being wagoned d1? Isn't it possible all of them were townies?

Obviously yes. I just thought that with the threads activity level and the way a lot of voters were noncommittal that there was a mafia involved. Doesn't truly mean anything other than that I'm being wary of Shin. (which is mostly what I said in my post but I hope this clears it up for you)

[Prims]

Hi I feel better and am writing up actual content! Don't put Marf at l-1 until I'm done please.

[charlie_]

##Triplevote: Marth

[Strawman]

@Straw: So he could make up some shit about how the Randa wagon was pushed heavily by scum to block my lynch? It'd make him look better if he called the wagon bad and kept as far away from it as possible regardless of my alignment.

Doesn't mean bussing isn't a possibility.

[charlie_]

Possible /=/ A good idea or likely.

[Strawman]

Yet possibility is all you have to go off in this game, isn't it?